Guild Wars 2

The current patch is an attempt to do small “shavings” to bring the class into line with these goals, in the same way we tried to “shave” the Ele numerous times, rather than “nerfing it from orbit”. Are all Ele specs equally viable in all game types? No. Is this ok? Yes. Staff can see play in one game type while D/D or S/D see play in others. As we’ve said, we’ll split skills/weapons more and more in the variuos game types, but each time we split a skill, it gives us more update work down the road. We have to be very prudent when we split skills.

@Jonathan Sharp

Now that we have confirmation from the devs that staff ele is not entirely viable in all game types, maybe we can now more safely have a discussion on what could be a viable 1200 range weapon for ele to be used in tPvP/sPvP
Specifically I’m talking about a 1200 range weapon that does quite well against single targets both at 1200 range and mele range.
But there are some problems I found that maybe can be solved if we all try to come up with a solution, for instance:

-The s/d set is the official duellist set for ele
-d/d is more for tank/PBaoe dmg
-staff is clearly a support weapon that require a team to support you
-mesmer is the best dmg dealer from 1200 range, not easy to close on him

So in the end we need something that has its own playstyle and doesn’t conflict with what other professions can offer.

What do you propose?

Increase the range of the “Electric Discharge” minor trait to 1200.

Change “Gust” to both knockback and make us retreat, similar to the Engineer speargun.

Increase the projectile speed of “Shockwave.”

Increase the damage of “Chain Lightning” on the first hit, decrease the damage on the 2nd and 3rd hits. (I hate this change, because I like the multi-hit effect. That said, there’s no better place I can think of to shoehorn single target damage in the weaponset.)

I don’t think we need another weapon, but I do think Staff could still be tweaked to allow for a higher damage 1v1 build without totally exploding full groups with the AoE.

Also, in terms of dev costs and time constraints, the chances of us getting a new weapon with 20 new skills implemented is effectively zero until they add new weapons to the game as a whole.

The biggest problem with Staff isn’t it’s damage or how it even deals it’s damage. The real issue is it has virtually zero reactionary defenses. When you look at /Dagger or even /Focus both have attunements/abilities with active defense moves they can be of use when being pressured. Staff on the other hand largely lacks this in favor of AOE CC which isn’t nearly as effective in a smaller combat scenario but great in larger combat scenarios. That, more than anything, keeps the staff from being a viable alternative. The damage is actually halfway decent.

Give us a GS please, I need to equip my twilight :-D.

Fire is already set, just take over the FGS and give it less dps. Water aoe healing and chilling stuff, earht heavy cc and bleeds and air is rough singledps and aoe stuns…

<3 <3 <3

Kodiak.3281:

The biggest problem with Staff isn’t it’s damage or how it even deals it’s damage. The real issue is it has virtually zero reactionary defenses. When you look at /Dagger or even /Focus both have attunements/abilities with active defense moves they can be of use when being pressured. Staff on the other hand largely lacks this in favor of AOE CC which isn’t nearly as effective in a smaller combat scenario but great in larger combat scenarios. That, more than anything, keeps the staff from being a viable alternative. The damage is actually halfway decent.

I agree with this. I see the little backward hop that Rangers and Thieves get on their bows

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Disabling_Shot_

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Shot

Note the short CD of the Ranger version, and the manageable Initiative cost on the Thief version.

Then I look at our version

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Retreat

9 Second CD vs. 20 Second CD

It makes me a bit envious, honestly.

Yes, but I bet they would love to buff, cleanse and heal like we do.

Kodiak.3281:

The biggest problem with Staff isn’t it’s damage or how it even deals it’s damage. The real issue is it has virtually zero reactionary defenses. When you look at /Dagger or even /Focus both have attunements/abilities with active defense moves they can be of use when being pressured. Staff on the other hand largely lacks this in favor of AOE CC which isn’t nearly as effective in a smaller combat scenario but great in larger combat scenarios. That, more than anything, keeps the staff from being a viable alternative. The damage is actually halfway decent.

Kodiak you seem to be a decent player but saying staff has no reactionary defenses is kind of a stretch. The only thing d/d offers over staff for reactionary defense is the auras as you can pop those when stunned and staff has a reactionary aura in magnetic aura. Staff has the AOE CC to allow you to escape/kite/create distance but if you used those skills to get a kill then that’s the trade off which is true of every weapon set for every profession.

What I think the staff needs (in SPvP), is better ways of creating gaps, basically.

A few ideas for the (dev) staff..

• Unsteady Ground
  Replaced by a burrowing skill that allows you to travel from A to B underground, with a launch effect on surfacing. A tad damage and/or bleed on pop-up wouldn’t be bad.

Reasoning:
The staff is reliant on CC, keeping people slowed and at bay. While this works in PvE, it doesn’t to the same extent in PvP, as everyone can close gaps rather easily. A skill for creating distance to your opponent or a CC opener, in order to get an offensive skill off as the staff skills are fairly slow.

• Lightning Surge
  Lowering cast time.

Reasoning:
Slightly better damage output to provide a way to create pressure. The current cast time is very high and too predictable IMHO.

• Gust
  An AoE knockback in a ring around you with shorter range (240-360), or a wider AoE knockback with slightly shorter range (600-900). Lowering the CD slightly.

Reasoning:
The thin focused line in which it travels makes it difficult to land and therefore has a slim chance of pushing anyone away from you. The reasoning is basically the same as with the burrow suggestion. Means of creating distance that has a better chance of success.

The above suggestions of reshaping existing skills that I feel are hindering the staff in certain elements of the game, mainly SPvP, are necessary in order to give the staff a breathing chance in combat. Unsteady Ground and Gust are “risky” ways of keeping distance, as they are unreliable in their effect.

I don’t see these suggestions having an negative impact on PvE or WvW. Gust with shorter range, a burrow skill that can create a gap, or make you a suicide mole. And Lightning Surge, which is in dire need of a shorter cast time.

IF a new weapon will ever be added (which I doubt), it would be awesome with a SPEAR! Imagine.. staff with a pointy end, symbolizing a spiky single target weapon. Awe-some!

Just give us a rifle :p

LOL he didn’t even mention Focus /sadness

- let US choose if we want to go support or nukers
- boost the freakin’ conjured weapons and make them actually viable in pvp
- give us a decent elite
- you did well with Air traits, now put some more efforts in Fire and completely revamp Earth
- give us back mobility!

oZii.2864:

Kodiak you seem to be a decent player but saying staff has no reactionary defenses is kind of a stretch. The only thing d/d offers over staff for reactionary defense is the auras as you can pop those when stunned and staff has a reactionary aura in magnetic aura. Staff has the AOE CC to allow you to escape/kite/create distance but if you used those skills to get a kill then that’s the trade off which is true of every weapon set for every profession.

I was trying to keep it brief and probably was a little too generic what I meant by reactionary defenses and “virtually none.” By reactionary defenses I meant abilities we can do to counter a situation and not necessarily with the subtext of us wanting to flee.

With that in mind, Staff is actually pretty poor. Burning retreat is basically a 3rd dodge, not bad, but it’s medium cool down is fairly poor (double the cool down of an actual Dodge without Vigor). Gust is laughably bad, better than it was now that it goes through targets, but as a projectile is easily avoided. Windborne Speed is good for chucking immobilizing conditions. Magnetic Aura is only affective against projectiles.

Geyser and Healing Rain are pretty great Water fields but it’s difficult to take advantage of them depending on spec and build. Frozen Ground is solid but is easily avoided by range and really is only reliable at catching large groups who can’t really avoid it. Static Field is a staple but a 2s stun rarely is going to save your life but it can be devastating at disrupting a huge zerg. Unsteady Ground suffers from the same problems as Frozen Ground only in a smaller area. Shockwave is another decent skill because it’s targeted but like Gust is prone to miss.

I compare this to say /Dagger. With /Dagger not only is usable while stunned anytime my opponent hits me they are chilled. Melee, ranged, avoidance whatever any time they strike they get Chilled. Cleansing Wave also works in any spec, removes a condition, and is a decent burst heal. Ride the Lightning was so good we still got people complaining about it on these forums months after the nerf. It’s basically our “F this…I’m outa here” button to create huge distance on most opponents to regroup and recover. Updraft gives us total control over anyone close enough and can be used defensively (such as to prevent a stomp or disrupt attacks) or offensively (to prevent heals and press offense). Earthquake functions similarly as Updraft again offensively or defensively. Finally Churning Earth, which is such a televised attack that (as people repeatedly say) “no good player ever gets hit with Churning Earth without Lightning Flash” basically allows you to create area denial as just casting it should get people to move out of the way.

This is not to say a Staff player can’t survive. In my support spec (0/0/10/30/30) and gear (Shaman/Boon Duration, Passiflora Jewelry) I’m pretty kitten ed bunker and can even survive burst thieves (not forever, but enough to make it to a friendly base or get to allies for a peel). It’s merely to say why it’s a sub-par small action weapon. It simply lacks the reactive/active defensive abilities that are consequential to that game play.

That said very few other classes in the game can bring what we can bring to the table in Zerg v Zerg conflict with our Staff. I’ve on numerous occasions stopped/disrupted whole zerg trains with a single Static Field in a choke point. I’m okay with having different tools for different jobs.