Guild Wars 2

When looking for groups for fractals 25+, I very often see groups “lfm no ele/thief”. Lately, I haven’t been able to find a group unless I ran with guildies, who also complain about the elementalist not being very useful.

Furthermore, I recently saw the post about AoE nerfs… If this happens, the elementalist will become completely useless. I really hope Anet does something to salvage my class because I really love the elementalist and I don’t want to have to reroll as a guardian, warrior, or mesmer to be able to enjoy high level fractals.

Elementalist is the highest ranged DPS glass in the game, and probably the best tank.

Please don’t troll on my serious thread.

Elementalist CAN be the highest ranged DPS in the game, but only if it is 10x squishier than the next highest DPS. (aka – get 1-hit by trash mobs in high level fractals)

Elementalist is by no means the best tank in the game. Eles survivability is very prominent in WvW, due it it’s mobility/healing. This does not transfer over to PvE where fully tank speced eles are about as tanky as berzerker geared warriors. Additionally, tank specing an ele forces us to play one build – support.

Kuzzi.2198:

Please don’t troll on my serious thread…

This does not transfer over to PvE where fully tank speced eles are about as tanky as berzerker geared warriors.

You’re trolling your own thread.

Daecollo.9578:

Elementalist is the most overrated ranged DPS glass in the game, and probably the best tank in PvP situations.

Yes, the elementalist really shines with AoE damage in PvE, but there is no real single target option for the ele – and single target damage is needed in dungeons for boss battles or killing specific mob types fast. The AoE helps only with trash which is skipped anyway.

The survivability in PvP comes from many small heals, which negate the next 2 or 3 attacks. But that small heals are worthless in dungeons, where everything two shots an ele with 0/10/0/30/30 spec, PVT+Cleric gear.

You don’t bring an ele for damge, but for his amazing utility – which is just unwanted/useless in high level fractals.

@Vid: Win through outlasting, not damage. If you try something like that in Fractals you’re downed at ~0:20

@above

He pulled 3.5k fire grabs with 100 tick bleeds while soloing a champ. All he did was rotate through all of his skills in one attunement, then move to the next with a little bit of kiting and some basic healing/utility pops every once in a while. Idk what you’re talking about.

Turbo Whale.1738:

Kuzzi.2198:

Please don’t troll on my serious thread…

This does not transfer over to PvE where fully tank speced eles are about as tanky as berzerker geared warriors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67ToSaS9xjQ

You’re trolling your own thread.

I hate seeing videos like this, it always reminds how slow I am at Elementalist. Also using lightning flash during churning earth, can’t say I ever thought of trying that. Still oh so very noob at the profession wow.

Never had a problem on my now 28 ranger getting a group and the pet is useless for the most part at that level. I can’t imagine Ele’s having any problems.

Turbo Whale.1738:

@above

He pulled 3.5k fire grabs with 100 tick bleeds while soloing a champ. All he did was rotate through all of his skills in one attunement, then move to the next with a little bit of kiting and some basic healing/utility pops every once in a while. Idk what you’re talking about.

Haha, yeah, 3.5k fire grab looks pretty sweet….. Until you realize it’s on a 45 second cooldown, requires burning to setup damage and half or more of the time it will miss anyway because it’s hitbox is the size of a gnat. Then compare it to the warriors 100 blades skill, which will hit for 3-5 times as much, 5 times as often (even more really, because you can spec that warrior as a full glass cannon and facetank stuff that will 2 shot a bunker elementalist).

Glass cannon warrior soloing Arah explorable mode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKy67S6uvNU
(notice he has more health and as much toughness as a bunker elementalist, in full ’zerker gear)

Facetank warrior build: (warning: some profanity in the video, not as much as I uttered watching it though, brb leveling my warrior so people can complain about a real TANK class rather than all the “ermagerd d/d ele iz OP!” crap I keep seeing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv2ux0GpejM
(This is what a warrior looks like using a build similar to what most bunker elementalists run, but a bit more into damage traits; notice the 30k hp, condition removals and heals about every 5 seconds, yeah, but d/d elementalists are on the “watch list”, ok guys, ok…..)

pmnt.4067:

Yes, the elementalist really shines with AoE damage in PvE, but there is no real single target option for the ele – and single target damage is needed in dungeons for boss battles or killing specific mob types fast. The AoE helps only with trash which is skipped anyway.

yes, boss battles isn’t our strongest side. that’s why i usually bring a greatsword as my elite for boss fights like bloom or cliffside bosses, it increases your dmg dramatically.
and while our single target dmg isn’t the greatest it isn’t that that far from your dmg. maybe you deal 20% more single target dmg. and like you stated furthr down the post. its all about outlasting and not dmg. so the 20% dmg loss isn’t that big of a deal. because i bring other things like heals and cc to the team.

pmnt.4067:

The survivability in PvP comes from many small heals, which negate the next 2 or 3 attacks. But that small heals are worthless in dungeons, where everything two shots an ele with 0/10/0/30/30 spec, PVT+Cleric gear.

You don’t bring an ele for damge, but for his amazing utility – which is just unwanted/useless in high level fractals.

in what way is utility unwanted/useless in high level fractals??? i mean the very reason why guardian is so kitten useful is because they have utility like wards and shields and aegies witch is very rare utilities in other professions. not to mention that they buff the party with amazing might stacks or providing the front line with protection and/or regeneration + heals.

pmnt.4067:

@Vid: Win through outlasting, not damage. If you try something like that in Fractals you’re downed at ~0:20

could’t agree more. probably less though.

OT:
well, I just checked gw2lfg.com and i found no “lfXm (no ele/thief)” posts. and i checked both eu and na. and very rarely do i see a post like that if my own experience is something to judge by.

most posts at lvl 25+ contain of +XAR and the word guardian in some form.

In this topic they have 3 eles at 71 lvl. Good eles are rare bread (similiar to thieves) and most pugs prefer lower skill cap proffesion, that’s all.

@OP you do not need such guys in your party believe me. Bad arguments from bad players.

Elementalists are great when they have a decent support build (Aura sharing, Fire Shields, Fury, Protection) but the problem is that almost nobody runs that. I personally don’t want Rangers or Thieves in FOTM, while they can be extremely good, 99.99% of the players is terrible. Same for Elementalists, better just filter them out by class altogether.

You wouldn’t want to be in a party with those guys anyway. I’ve pugged Arah as an ele with a group of 3 eles and a necro. One of the better runs i’ve had tbh.

^this. I had runs 4 eles+1 engi and 3 eles+2 mesmers and we performed far from worse.
What most people do not realize is that you do not own them anything. A guardian is not supposed to buff YOU – so stay close to guardian if you want some buffs. Same goes for any profession. Aura sharing is not the only thing you can do.

Almost nobody will give you credit for might buff, AoE heals or protection from earth swap. But any of those combined with Guardian buffs go pretty well. A good ele is one that do not die often, period. I won’t run aura sharing just because someone is telling me to.

P.S. It is funny how well a combination between ‘worst’ classes is. Any two players from ranger/ele/necro classes can upkeep burning/bleeding/other conditions pretty good + contributing to raw damage and even buffing ally.
The most selfish playstyle I’ve personally seen comes from classes from Warriors because a lot of guys running them believe you owe them and it was not for once I have seen the Leroy style from the same.

I’m a D/D ele and I do leroy style too simply because I play the game for fun. Don’t know why ya’ll are being so serious bout it… its a game ya know… a way to get away from life’s worries and feel free for once.
Jump in and join the fight leroy style. Heal and buff each other, block attacks and remove conditions! That’s what its all about. Don’t care what class you are as long as you’re fun to play with.

Wouldn’t 5x eles actually be really pro? Think about it, that’s permanent shock aura right there.

A single d/d aura share ele can provide high amounts of protect/fury/swiftness/might/regen to the whole group, and that’s far from useless.

Navzar.2938:

Wouldn’t 5x eles actually be really pro? Think about it, that’s permanent shock aura right there.

A single d/d aura share ele can provide high amounts of protect/fury/swiftness/might/regen to the whole group, and that’s far from useless.

i’ve though of it. but i’d rather play 5x staff then with a 85% upptime on magnetic aura (reflective) and with all playing with glyph of elemental we would have 2 stone elementals tanking for us which we can heal. they would also be constant chilled, crippled and immobilized for a good while. we would also have a tone of combo finishers. yeah it would be epic.

5 eles in a pug however is a completely different story. which this post is all about.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Turbo Whale.1738:

@above

He pulled 3.5k fire grabs with 100 tick bleeds while soloing a champ. All he did was rotate through all of his skills in one attunement, then move to the next with a little bit of kiting and some basic healing/utility pops every once in a while. Idk what you’re talking about.

Haha, yeah, 3.5k fire grab looks pretty sweet….. Until you realize it’s on a 45 second cooldown, requires burning to setup damage and half or more of the time it will miss anyway because it’s hitbox is the size of a gnat. Then compare it to the warriors 100 blades skill, which will hit for 3-5 times as much, 5 times as often (even more really, because you can spec that warrior as a full glass cannon and facetank stuff that will 2 shot a bunker elementalist).

Glass cannon warrior soloing Arah explorable mode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKy67S6uvNU
(notice he has more health and as much toughness as a bunker elementalist, in full ’zerker gear)

Facetank warrior build: (warning: some profanity in the video, not as much as I uttered watching it though, brb leveling my warrior so people can complain about a real TANK class rather than all the “ermagerd d/d ele iz OP!” crap I keep seeing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv2ux0GpejM
(This is what a warrior looks like using a build similar to what most bunker elementalists run, but a bit more into damage traits; notice the 30k hp, condition removals and heals about every 5 seconds, yeah, but d/d elementalists are on the “watch list”, ok guys, ok…..)

This should be read by every Anet dev.

Ele’s are not unwanted in high level fractals; you’re just seeing saturation of low armor/hp classes and so guardians and warriors and classes with better innate tanking abilities are in high demand.

They don’t reject you as an ele because eles are not good; next to the guardian and warrior they are the best PvE classes for support (warrior for damage, guardian also for support).

They reject you because there are already too many eles, and if you’re serious most PuGs that don’t have at least someone or two people who can take hits and soak damage means lots of wiping with disorganized people.

I can’t believe people are seriously saying eles are unwanted/ You d/d auramancer with high toughness and healing can deal still fair aoe damage, have 2 aoe CC, 3 aoe heals and condi removal for the group, aoe chill to control enemies, fire fields for buffing your group, and on top of it all the auras shared (aoe stun and chill on hit).

You are insane if you think eles are not useful in a group. Just don’t try to beat warriors in damage, because you won’t. Build for your currents strength, which are support and some decent aoe damage.

P.S. With aura sharing and Elemental Attunement trait I can give my allies high fury uptimes (basically everyone in the group will be critting a bunch, greatly increased damage output for the group), swiftness, close to permanent regen, and easily 6 seconds of protection every 10 seconds. With group condi removal every 10 seconds plus the aoe heal. Only a guardian can get close to supporting like I do, and not even because I give more fields and the difference is that the guardian’s boon sharing is far more limited and his tanky build more selfish than a bunker ele with much lesser damage output.

Zenith.7301:

Ele’s are not unwanted in high level fractals; you’re just seeing saturation of low armor/hp classes and so guardians and warriors and classes with better innate tanking abilities are in high demand.

They don’t reject you as an ele because eles are not good; next to the guardian and warrior they are the best PvE classes for support (warrior for damage, guardian also for support).

They reject you because there are already too many eles, and if you’re serious most PuGs that don’t have at least someone or two people who can take hits and soak damage means lots of wiping with disorganized people.

I can’t believe people are seriously saying eles are unwanted/ You d/d auramancer with high toughness and healing can deal still fair aoe damage, have 2 aoe CC, 3 aoe heals and condi removal for the group, aoe chill to control enemies, fire fields for buffing your group, and on top of it all the auras shared (aoe stun and chill on hit).

You are insane if you think eles are not useful in a group. Just don’t try to beat warriors in damage, because you won’t. Build for your currents strength, which are support and some decent aoe damage.

P.S. With aura sharing and Elemental Attunement trait I can give my allies high fury uptimes (basically everyone in the group will be critting a bunch, greatly increased damage output for the group), swiftness, close to permanent regen, and easily 6 seconds of protection every 10 seconds. With group condi removal every 10 seconds plus the aoe heal. Only a guardian can get close to supporting like I do, and not even because I give more fields and the difference is that the guardian’s boon sharing is far more limited and his tanky build more selfish than a bunker ele with much lesser damage output.

^this^

however i roll a ele staff support/dps. and i feel its more usefull than d/d support because: more clenses, more healing, more regeneration, more fury, more swiftness, more dmg ( because you are ranged), better and more auras (imo), more and better combo fields (imo), as a staff you don’t need as much vit/tough either so u can switch out some gear for more dps and more chill.
i’m not really sure why one would like to go d/d over a staff in dungeons. i get it why one go with it in pvp/wvw as it brings alot of singletarget fire and mobility. and isn’t as vulnerable as a staff ele. but maybe i’m missing something :/.

On staff you get a single aura to activate at will. On d/d you get 2. The heals might seem like more on staff, but that’s because you’re not looking at cooldowns. And the burst aoe from dagger is supremely better than staff aoe, especially if opponents are being moved out of the aoe you place on the ground.

Good luck getting people to stay on your small geyser while trying to move out of dangerous aoe; ditto for Healing Rain. I don’t care about Healing Rain if the Hillside boss just put red circles there or the Dredge Warsuit is about to spit bombs there; d/d water skills are mobile.

IIRC, Staff Eles only have Magnetic Aura on demand and Area Frost Aura from their combos.

D/D Eles have Frost Aura and Shocking Aura on demand, and Fire Aura from Burning Speed or Ring of Fire + Magnetic Grasp.

I do really love Magnetic Aura, but D/D Eles still have more Auras overall, don’t they?

Alilinke.7690:

Staff Combo Fields are severely underrated by the ele community.
Putting static field around a enemies can stack vulnerability extremely easily (through whirl and projectile finishers), and will stun anyone trying to move out of the field.

Frozen ground can stacks an INSANE amount of chill on enemies (15 sec chill through the skill itself, plus another 1 sec(?) for anyone using whirl and projectile finishers, and if a blast finisher is added, area frost armour on everyone within the field, which adds more chill each time the enemy attacks. Not to mention the huge radius (with blasting staff) making it easy to keep enemies on the field.

Our 2 water fields are amazing (Geyser and Healing Rain). Geyser is small, but if you’re fighting a boss which doesn’t require you to move around much, you can put it under yourself or your team mates, and in some cases both and it heals for 808 + Healing Power * 0.25 every pulse (pulses 3 times). And since it’s a combo field, Blast and leap finishers can heal for 1320 + 0.2 * healing power and 1300 + 0.5 * healing power respectively. Projectile finishers also grant regeneration for 2 seconds. Then there’s healing rain, which can grant regen for 15 seconds, has a massive radius, lasts for 6 seconds, and also works as a combo field, which means even more regeneration and healing.

Also, we have access to many auras through our fields (although, due to our lack of a leap finisher, we can’t apply them onto ourselves.)

Staff Auras:
Magnetic Aura on demand
Frost Aura from blast finisher in ice field.
Fire Aura from Leap finisher in fire field.
Dazing strikes from Leap finisher in Lightning Field. (Similar to Shocking Aura, but applies daze instead of stun)

I’m a Dungeon Master myself, and staff is always my weapon of choice. The only time i switch to D/D or S/D is when i’m fighting an enemy that reflects projectiles.

Staff Eles don’t have leap finishers, I don’t think? (Never mind; I can’t read, haha.)

I do agree on Static Field being extremely good against bosses in dungeons, though. I always include Air in every other rotation specifically for that reason. (I have to wait out one rotation for it to come off cooldown. :c)

I also usually target Geyser under my enemy so all of my melee party members are healed and most of my ranged party members gain several stacks of regeneration.

@parsee komeiji (2nd latest post)
they have the same amount of auras for themself, yes, but for the team staffs have 1 more. you can combo three times in the frost field. and yes those auras which you create in that combo field are considered “shared” thus giving staffs more fury than a d/d or at least as much because the lightning have a 25sec cd with 10sec of fury once applied. and even if staff had somewhat less the trade of for a few seconds of fury for a megnetic shield is worth it imo.

@zenith
you might be accurate on the heals. they are harder to hit. but if u use it on a guardian he can combo finish in it. not to mention that you can combo in it. but in a pug group yeah, a d/d heal for more.

burst is not needed in dugeons. at all. completely useless. unless you are speed running it.

and how do you deal dmg as a d/d vs the dredge bosses? yeah u heal better on those bosses but you must deal dmg, right?

ok, so healing is worse. but i can take that downside because the upsides of a staff is basically everything else. unless you have a argument for those as well. i can make a point list of what they do better:

d/d
+easy to land heal, (better in pugs but aoe have greater potential in a premade group)
+maybe a few seconds of extra fury.
+burst. ( this is the reason its good in pvp)
+mobility ( this is the other reason its good for pvp)

-no dmg beyond 600 = less dps and the need of more defense, meaning even less dps)
-less dps (see above reason)
-less combo fields.
-less useful combo fields. (lets face it water combo field is more useful)
-less usefull aoe fields ( frost fields is one of the best out there)

so all in all d/d is great in pvp, but staff is just superior in dungeons. unless you are in a premade group to fulfill a specific role witch the staff can’t fulfill.

in pugs ppl usually look at. can you deal dmg?, can you survive? can you do something special that another class can’t. we can deal dmg, and we can survive, and we bring fury to the entire team. thus both d/d nd staffs are viable. it’s a preference of play style. all i’m saying is that in a dungeon the ele is to the maximum effect with a staff in general.

@parsee komeiji (latest post)
the point with fire aura notation was probably because others can leap through it. usually you don’t want to get hit by anything so having fire, frost, ligthning aura doesn’t really mean anything to you as a elementalist. but can mae a huge diffrent on a condition dmg necro or thief ( idk if they have any leap)

and note that it is not the person shooting the projectiles that receive the regeneration but it’s the person standing next to the target. correct me if i’m wrong.

and yeah ele combo field are greatly underrated. even i don’t use the lightning sometimes because i think it won’t matter. but it really does. ( also make sure not to put it over a water field so someone combo blast in the lightning area. as it will only generate swiftness).

I really love Lightning fields. With the right group, you can maintain 25 stacks of vulnerability quite easily. I understand this would be hard with a pug, but my usual dungeon group utilizes combo fields really well.

Aside the usual thief player trolling in ele section… (feel free to spot them its easy)

Ele is noway the best ranged DPS……

Unless you consider aoe damage multiplyied for number of targets….

And considering that the key in this game is to kill single targets FAST, that skill is the most unwanted as in any other game……

Because single target damage is way too low.
Pair with this low survivability…..

Otherwise you need to sacrifice dps almost completely.

Combo field are good, its fun to see how staff lacks finishers, and D/D requires you to stay near opponents, things almost unviable in PvE with a glasscannon (in difficult dungeons even an ele tank cannot do that).

If I wanted to do damage in melee range I’d just play my warrior who is pretty much better in every regards.

When I play my ele I play him as staff or s/d and usually a hybrid of damage and support (usually 20/0/0/30/20 staff cantrip style). I do good damage, I provide good support and I rarely have a problem with me dying. If that isn’t enough for people then I don’t really bother with those kinds of people.

pmnt.4067

Yes, the elementalist really shines with AoE damage in PvE, but there is no real single target option for the ele – and single target damage is needed in dungeons for boss battles or killing specific mob types fast. The AoE helps only with trash which is skipped anyway.

the thing about bosses is they often have large hitboxes, meaning that a casting a meteor shower on a boss will have every meteor hit the boss. Plus, as mentionted, the huge number of combo fields a staff ele has access to is often overlooked and underrated.

LordByron.8369:

Aside the usual thief player trolling in ele section… (feel free to spot them its easy)

Combo field are good, its fun to see how staff lacks finishers, and D/D requires you to stay near opponents, things almost unviable in PvE with a glasscannon (in difficult dungeons even an ele tank cannot do that).

3 out of the 5 earth attunement skills with staff are combo finishers.

Turbo Whale.1738:

Kuzzi.2198:

Please don’t troll on my serious thread…

This does not transfer over to PvE where fully tank speced eles are about as tanky as berzerker geared warriors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67ToSaS9xjQ

You’re trolling your own thread.

Geez you handled that 79 champion on a level 80 elementalist like a boss! The OP is referring to dungeons with high concentrations of higher level mobs + a boss. Not just a single lower level target. lol

Waraxx.4286:

@parsee komeiji (2nd latest post)
they have the same amount of auras for themself, yes, but for the team staffs have 1 more. you can combo three times in the frost field. and yes those auras which you create in that combo field are considered “shared” thus giving staffs more fury than a d/d or at least as much because the lightning have a 25sec cd with 10sec of fury once applied. and even if staff had somewhat less the trade of for a few seconds of fury for a megnetic shield is worth it imo.

@zenith
you might be accurate on the heals. they are harder to hit. but if u use it on a guardian he can combo finish in it. not to mention that you can combo in it. but in a pug group yeah, a d/d heal for more.

burst is not needed in dugeons. at all. completely useless. unless you are speed running it.

and how do you deal dmg as a d/d vs the dredge bosses? yeah u heal better on those bosses but you must deal dmg, right?

ok, so healing is worse. but i can take that downside because the upsides of a staff is basically everything else. unless you have a argument for those as well. i can make a point list of what they do better:

d/d
+easy to land heal, (better in pugs but aoe have greater potential in a premade group)
+maybe a few seconds of extra fury.
+burst. ( this is the reason its good in pvp)
+mobility ( this is the other reason its good for pvp)

-no dmg beyond 600 = less dps and the need of more defense, meaning even less dps)
-less dps (see above reason)
-less combo fields.
-less useful combo fields. (lets face it water combo field is more useful)
-less usefull aoe fields ( frost fields is one of the best out there)

so all in all d/d is great in pvp, but staff is just superior in dungeons. unless you are in a premade group to fulfill a specific role witch the staff can’t fulfill.

in pugs ppl usually look at. can you deal dmg?, can you survive? can you do something special that another class can’t. we can deal dmg, and we can survive, and we bring fury to the entire team. thus both d/d nd staffs are viable. it’s a preference of play style. all i’m saying is that in a dungeon the ele is to the maximum effect with a staff in general.

@parsee komeiji (latest post)
the point with fire aura notation was probably because others can leap through it. usually you don’t want to get hit by anything so having fire, frost, ligthning aura doesn’t really mean anything to you as a elementalist. but can mae a huge diffrent on a condition dmg necro or thief ( idk if they have any leap)

and note that it is not the person shooting the projectiles that receive the regeneration but it’s the person standing next to the target. correct me if i’m wrong.

and yeah ele combo field are greatly underrated. even i don’t use the lightning sometimes because i think it won’t matter. but it really does. ( also make sure not to put it over a water field so someone combo blast in the lightning area. as it will only generate swiftness).

I deal damage on d/d because there’s this thing called vigor when I crit. Dredge bosses are doable.

And burst is extremely useful when you also have warriors in the party, because the best utility you can bring to tough encounters outside bosses is to eliminate targets quickly.

In Arah, for example, it doesn’t pay to have protracted fights. Neither does it pay for the Ascalonian fractals, because the mobs themselves hit like trucks and the longer you take to kill them, the more likely something will go wrong. Pairing a frenzy 100b with ele burst aoe is pretty crazy and can take down most dangerous trash.

Same for bosses where you quickly need to dispatch, like the Nightmare Vine in TA; the longer it takes you to kill the small vines, the worse it gets.

Zenith.7301:

I deal damage on d/d because there’s this thing called vigor when I crit. Dredge bosses are doable.

And burst is extremely useful when you also have warriors in the party, because the best utility you can bring to tough encounters outside bosses is to eliminate targets quickly.

In Arah, for example, it doesn’t pay to have protracted fights. Neither does it pay for the Ascalonian fractals, because the mobs themselves hit like trucks and the longer you take to kill them, the more likely something will go wrong. Pairing a frenzy 100b with ele burst aoe is pretty crazy and can take down most dangerous trash.

Same for bosses where you quickly need to dispatch, like the Nightmare Vine in TA; the longer it takes you to kill the small vines, the worse it gets.

i have renewing stamina aswell so whats your point?

you can’t be serious when you say you do the dredge bosses with a melee weapon.then you are doing something really wrong on that boss no matter what class you are on( unless you want to be there forever, then i suppose it’s good) if you dislike staff go scepter, you need ranged on that boss.

the best utility you can bring to a tough encounter is survive-ability. unless you are doing a speed run of course. and if you are doing a speed run, well, just go warrior they are way more efficient at that.

as before, if you want burst, just go with a warrior. they will have there burst up way more.

and i’m quite sure that your burst isn’t that much higher then a staffs initial dmg anyway. we will have better dmg gear as we don’t have to be in melee to deal he dmg in the first place.

Being more to the point, I’ve never really had the problem OP describes.

For comparison, I also play a Guardian, which I think everyone considers a more universally accepted class, and I don’t know which one I really feel is more powerful.

I’d say for disorganized (PUG) situations, the Guardian does have a considerable edge in being able to survive when the group breaks down. This may be where a lot of people are basing these weird exclusion tactics: in the hands of a careless player, it’s always better to have the more survivable character.

Given an organized group, Fractals fields a lot of ranged fights that the Ele does excel at.

I will note that I don’t use a D/D build in fractals – this is one of the situations where I prefer the Staff (the other being siege situations in WvW). I consider the Lava fractal a specialty of the staff Ele, as they possess the combination of AOE (for tars), quickly ticking attacks (to break shield) and survivability necessary to nearly solo the boss if need be. The fewest players alive I’ve gotten success with in the 20-29 range is 2 (one person other than myself). I cite this example because for whatever reason, a lot of groups I run into seem to be afraid of this fight.

Just as a vote of respect for the thief, that particular exclusion is also the product of inexperience. In a chaotic group – sure. Thieves die, and quickly. In an organized group, no other class helps you skip quite as much content as the thief, which cuts down run time drastically.

Note: Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have some obsession with niceness and equality. If there is anything I love, it’s exclusion. I believe the competitive nature of games is the most fun to me, and by nature, that involves exclusion. I just feel that it is unwarranted in this particular case, and the product of a skewed (and mostly incorrect) perception. I would sooner kick someone from my party for having fewer than 1,000 achievement points, than to pick at classes.

LFk.1408:

Being more to the point, I’ve never really had the problem OP describes.

For comparison, I also play a Guardian, which I think everyone considers a more universally accepted class, and I don’t know which one I really feel is more powerful.

I hope i won t have to explain to u why NOTHING in fotm is even comparable to a guardian.
-lot of projectile shield with long uptime
-Aegis
-bubbles
-binding blade -.-
-better healing to Whole Group.

I will note that I don’t use a D/D build in fractals – this is one of the situations where I prefer the Staff (the other being siege situations in WvW).

I hate staff eles….. they just slow downs runs…..
Damage output is terrible unless not galss cannon and if GC they just die to a breeze.

D/D on his side just cannot be used in many situations.

I consider the Lava fractal a specialty of the staff Ele, as they possess the combination of AOE (for tars), quickly ticking attacks (to break shield)

excuse me what O__o?
shield is actually a huge problem for staff ele.
We know staff Attacks are slow and unreliable.
With my mesmer i can gwt shield down in no time, with staff i just “survive somehow”.

You know what’s the ONLY strategy i found for lava shaman 20+?
spamming autoattack just to have access to other attunements when i need them…
Also i need to have fire ready and fire 5 in particular for when shields appears, hoping some meteor will hit the shield….while i spam 75CD defensive skills in the right bar.

and survivability necessary to nearly solo the boss if need be. The fewest players alive I’ve gotten success with in the 20-29 range is 2 (one person other than myself). I cite this example because for whatever reason, a lot of groups I run into seem to be afraid of this fight.

You cannot solo theboss unless you use a guardian.
And glasscannon dies easily to 1 shaman Arrow even without agony (dmg + condition you often get 2-3 in a row)

Ele doesn t give any contribution aside not dying with staff.
It mostly provide another target and FEW hits to shield

I can’t believe someone can be that bad at D/D ele. The Dredge boss is easily doable with d/d, all you need to dodge are the bombs and when he clearly stops ready to one-two punch you. You can also dodge the ground pound if you got no agony resist.

And no, I don’t know what level of fractal you are doing, but even past lv30 fractal the grawl shaman’s arrow does not one-shot a glass cannon. Jesus, what’s wrong with people? Obviously in fractals like the ascalonian one you are disadvantaged, but so is every melee there because the fact is ascalonian warriors and mages will two-shot anyone.

LordByron.8369:

I consider the Lava fractal a specialty of the staff Ele, as they possess the combination of AOE (for tars), quickly ticking attacks (to break shield)

excuse me what O__o?
shield is actually a huge problem for staff ele.
We know staff Attacks are slow and unreliable.
With my mesmer i can gwt shield down in no time, with staff i just “survive somehow”.

You know what’s the ONLY strategy i found for lava shaman 20+?
spamming autoattack just to have access to other attunements when i need them…
Also i need to have fire ready and fire 5 in particular for when shields appears, hoping some meteor will hit the shield….while i spam 75CD defensive skills in the right bar.

and survivability necessary to nearly solo the boss if need be. The fewest players alive I’ve gotten success with in the 20-29 range is 2 (one person other than myself). I cite this example because for whatever reason, a lot of groups I run into seem to be afraid of this fight.

You cannot solo theboss unless you use a guardian.
And glasscannon dies easily to 1 shaman Arrow even without agony (dmg + condition you often get 2-3 in a row)

Ele doesn t give any contribution aside not dying with staff.
It mostly provide another target and FEW hits to shield

I can offer you some strategy insight on this one particular encounter, since it’s one I have a lot of practice with. I personally insist we do this fractal in guild groups because I think it’s extremely easy. In PUGs, I just let it slide and skip it.

The Lava fractal boss shields at predictable times (every 25%). When he’s a tick or two above his shield time, channel meteor, and drop a glyph of storms. In whichever order you wish. If you’ve got at least one reliable ally, you can put an Ice Bow down (equipped in lieu of GoS, you don’t need both), and both drop an Ice Storm, which breaks the shield easily. In the midst of meteor channel, be sure to be ready to pop Magnetic (Staff Earth 3) to guarantee safety from tars. The Ice Bow channel is riskier, you’ll have to rely on arcane shield to protect you.

I do not die to one shaman arrow. That you even mention that means you have not done this before, because I don’t even die in one hit in my MF gear (not that I recommend using it). Granted, I have 30 AR, but you specify “even with agony res”. My HP pool is ~16,500. One shaman arrow roughly inflicts 6,000 at levels 20-29. It is readily dodgeable (even by strafing, strangely), but I am by no means a perfect player so I’ll get hit from time to time.

If this worries you, you can generally keep your HP much higher using SoR instead of GoEH, and using water fields + blast finishers as heals. Remember that in addition to geyser, you can roll into it on Earth Attunement to blast a heal, and blast a second with Arcane Wave, which i keep for most PvE encounters. A tip for this encounter is that this is one of the fights where you can untrait Blasting Staff (which I generally keep), to trait reduced Arcane CD, since AS and AW are both useful for this boss.

Keep in mind I never have soloed the event from start to finish – there’s really never a circumstance to do so. At their worst, I at least need other people running around drawing fire. However, I have certainly managed to do the whole event with 3 players down, and my other ally a guild member who plays a thief, another much maligned class that people tend to love glass cannon builds for, and suffer the consequences in dungeons.

I hope with a little clarification it’s easier to see how to apply Staff properly. Players like yourself that may not have been aware of how versatile the class is tend to lead to a lot of complaints (especially right after release) about how the elementalist was underpowered. I admit at the time, I also felt the same way. In time, however, there’s a certain comfort in knowing you solutions to a wide variety of problems.

The class has a high skill cap – yes – but these things become second nature after a while. If there’s one complaint I feel is valid, it’s that it’s a lot more effort to play the ele properly, but others would say that’s part of the fun.

Today, I see the complaints about elementalists as minimal, to the point of certain players screaming nerf for the sPvP version of the D/D Bunker. I don’t think that’s warranted either, as I also run a Guardian Bunker which is also extremely powerful. It’s just the nature of the Bunker build itself being the norm for sPvP. I think the fact that I’ve picked 2 bunker builds for tPvP is more telling than the individual classes.

Because it was brought up, I just wanted to remind everyone that Staff Elementalists do have access to leap finishers through the use of Utility Skills (Conjure Lightning Hammer 2[6s] and Conjure Flame Axe 5 [20s]). If you really need those dazes, you can get 2 in 6 seconds using both the Staff Static Field and the Lightning Hammer’s Static Field.

I haven’t tried any high level Fractals, though, so I can’t comment on the OP’s issue. I’ve never seen such shouts while idle in LA, either.

I thought we can destroy the Shaman’s shield with bleed ticks so I just Eruption the shield. Shaman is an easy fight for ele, especially staff. AoE cleanse + heal + Ether Renewal and you can keep the group save. Healing Rain = No Burning.

ELe has an answer to most situation in fractal so I dont know why we r unwanted. If you don’t do enough dmg or die as a Staff ele, I might afraid you are not using the waepon efficiently. Staff ele is like one of the safest and most destructive spec in dungeon/fractal…..A lot of CC, Burning Retreat is hax xD, reflective shield, hax cleanse + burst healing…… If you don’t suicide and go in first, it is really hard to die as staff ele. You should be the last man standing and use Mist Form to rez those who are down.

Vanillea: Yes. You can. Eruption is a very nice choice for Shaman, and I didn’t even mention it because my method of choice is typically the earth attuned GoS, which ticks the bleed, is faster to trigger, and lasts a long time.

Using immobilize or cripple will also buy you time, if the shaman is in a less than ideal spot. This is generally not necessary if you or your group keeps the Shaman in a nice location. It’s worth noting that Earth 5 applies immobilize, and Earth 4 applies cripple, and both also apply bleeding, making the Earth-attuned Staff Elementalist one of the best (if not the best) skill sets for this particular boss. I already mentioned how useful Earth 3 is to give you 5 damage-free seconds from the summons to lay down your spells.

This is why LordByron’s response stunned me so much: he states his method of choice is autoattack, which is mortifying. At the same time, I can see why so many believe the Elementalist to be such a poor class. If indeed that was the method I was using, I agree: it’s horrible. If your attack of choice is the autoattack, the elementalist is hands down the worst class in the game for you, and it’s not even close.

The reason I mention the other Earth skills only in passing is this: You definitely want to lay down the meteor as well. Almost as important as getting the shield down before he gets to a villager is to start clearing away some of the summons. Once you’re confident that you have the shield broken, it’s just a random AOE spam. Glacial Spike, Lava Font, Meteor, Arcane Wave (preferably on a water or fire field) – just throw out everything you have. This is also a good time to put out your Elemental summon, Ice or Earth.

LFk.1408:

I do not die to one shaman arrow. That you even mention that means you have not done this before, because I don’t even die in one hit in my MF gear (not that I recommend using it). Granted, I have 30 AR, but you specify “even with agony res”.

I said lvl 30 with 25 AR…..
And saying SHIELD is an issue doesn t mean “i die at shaman”.

Means shaman get to sacrifices……

Arrow at 30 oneshots a balanced ele (knight with 16000 HP) with AR25 fyi.
Raw dmg+a tick of burning+few agony is more than enough……

Not a wonder at 29 is way easier ……and i don t die at all unless all my party does (did in 3 at 28).

but i should ve known better…everybody in forum is 50+ playing with pugs…and evading everything with monitor turned off while considering any other player noob.
I wonder how comes gw2lfg is quite empty at 30+……

P.S. regarding autoattack (i should say fire 1-2-3-4) on shaman:
L2R.

“to have access to other attunements faster”

I.E: you don t use rotation when the shaman is ALONE and without shield for so many reason any player should know.

1st being slow dps is better, 2nd is saving rotations for shield/elementals

the only thing i don t know is if condition counts for shield but considering similar bosses i’d say it doesn t.

It also ignores guardian scepter 1 so logically i thougt condition would not count…

You sure of it?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volcanic_Fractal

“Using Immobilize or Cripple will give you more time to remove his shield before he reaches a villager. Since the shield defends against individual hits, applying bleeding or poison will take the shield down quickly since the conditions inflict many fast hits to the target. Also, saving the multiple shot skills for these occasions is recommended.”

The original post of this topic uses Level 25. Your original post even discusses 20+. You never specify 30 with 25AR until this post. You should reread, or try a Ctrl+F in this post with the number “30”, and see that the first mention you make of 30 is in your last post.

I would strongly recommend getting to maximum AR before trying to progress through the 30s. Every bit counts in that range. I also do not attempt 30-39 range fractals with pick-up groups, as a general lack of coordination may lead to some unfortunate wipes. If I am doing a daily with no pre-made group, I will run it at 26 or 28, the range where non-infused rings stop dropping, but not yet in the 4th tier of agony.

You also said “glasscannons”
And glass cannons get shotted at 20…..with some fire and any agony tick.

It almost oneshot me at 14 with mesmer until i started to use sigil of generosity, a single hit was a pain.

nice to know the condition on shield btw <.<
Despite the fact staying in fire till shield seems to be a COMMON tactic at higher lvl fotm for eles.

the wiki isn’t a good source, there is alot regarding fractals that are inaccurate i.e the formula how agony is calculated. so the wiki isn’t ready yet to be called the all knowing thing about mechanics and statistics. however it is a great tool for finding different kinds of materials / common knowledge.

i would’t belive in the wiki unless i knew it was sure from my own experience. and from my own experience it dosent matter if you have him bleeding/burned/posioned.

if you still think gw2 wiki is correct about this matter then you are foolish as the person that wrote what you quoted from the wiki thought that bleed/burn/poison tics can be blocked in some form.

Just so you know, Kunst’s group (level 71, EU, last I saw) is made of Guardian (Kunst), Ele x 3, +1.

That’s right, Ele x3.

Thought that info might be useful in this particular thread.

a vid would be nice …..just to explain

Could also be they found a glitch (forget to get to 71 legit) we don t know about….
Lvl 40 usually needs mesmer warriors and guardians (luckily i have a mesmer u.u)

p.S. also condition part have been deleted XD from wiki…lol

Xynn.2748:

Just so you know, Kunst’s group (level 71, EU, last I saw) is made of Guardian (Kunst), Ele x 3, +1.
That’s right, Ele x3.
Thought that info might be useful in this particular thread.

actually we are now 4 ele and 1 guard

LordByron.8369:

a vid would be nice …..just to explain
Could also be they found a glitch (forget to get to 71 legit) we don t know about….
Lvl 40 usually needs mesmer warriors and guardians (luckily i have a mesmer u.u)
p.S. also condition part have been deleted XD from wiki…lol

what is “legit” if you talk about jade maw? the most “legit” is orbs (this is what we used since 50, up to the 40s you can do pretty well with just coordinated healing (3 eles and a guard))
there are some old videos from the 50s here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Fractals-difficulty-lvl-50-videos-Ele

resisted long to post in any of the bs-threads on this forum here.. whine here, cry there, others putting out “facts” without a tiny bit of knowledge.. its baffling and its like playing another game sometimes.
when i was still pugging fotm (did this up to the upper 30s) and was lfm it was more like this for me:
- ele joins: nice
- guard joins: great
- warrior joins: well… meh but anyway..

one could believe things like those brain-afk cof p1 dps speed runs dictate class supremacy when browsing this forum… in the end its the player, not the class

legit for me will be when you ll have a Group doing dredge when they ll nerf spykits

The game cannot be dsigned around a karma consumable…..

Also that guardian is really good and that is why they succeed.
Other players are good also, but the guardian saves the day when the Group would ve needed damage rather than PVT eles (look grawl 1st boss).

LordByron.8369:

legit for me will be when you ll have a Group doing dredge when they ll nerf spykits

The game cannot be dsigned around a karma consumable…..

Also that guardian is really good and that is why they succeed.
Other players are good also, but the guardian saves the day when the Group would ve needed damage rather than PVT eles (look grawl 1st boss).

well, spykits is such a thing.. not really an exploit but also cannot be the intended way to do things, true (one of our eles tries to do his part on the switch without spykits/just dying on switch for a time but still fails to do so ).

and again there it is.. “the guardian saves the day”, “PVT eles”.. you do like beeing in this group, knowing our gear/spec (dont know if anyone is running PVT, i dont in high level fractals) and knowing things from the inside.. you dont
while Kunst is one of the 2 backbones of our group its not like the guard is carrying this group on his shoulders.. in battles where we need that much absorb/reflect like at grawl boss the guard is just one in the rotation of many (we got better at this since the 50s).
grawl first boss (where you have to save the hostages) is now (70+) on another level anyway, we go DPS there for some time to get it done, but it still can be done, also with 4 eles (the 5. teammember in the lvl 5x video was still a GC thief). this part at higher levels is more a DPS-check like for example p2 cof where we have no prob in our group at all (killing, not kiting) although we are “only eles”

18.500 health……
damage is low
he takes slightly less damage than my knight set with few VIT (still 2000 less HP also 30 water)
from what i see i bet he use omnom to boost prec but i could be wrong on this.
also potion of grawl slaying….

cannot say if he used some food i m not aware of but that to me seems pvt if you say its not you can just tell where i was wrong.