Guild Wars 2

WvW/PvP issue. PvE ele is top-dog dps since mobs don’t dodge.

Staff vs Necroes:
Necroes can currently ‘nuke’ infinitely better with their MASSIVE, UNBLOCKABLE, almost INSTANT-CAST, INSTANT EFFECT marks. Eles get what? Massive cast times and after-casts, extremely delayed effects, massive and skills that are split in functionality that put you even more ‘behind’ in the fight while your health whittles down. When playing staff ele you pretty much turn into a PvE Mob for other people to kill.

X/Dagger vs Warriors:
The RtL nerf put eles way behind in mobility compared to warriors. Unlike warriors, however, eles cant deal that much stun. To deal any significant damage requires the landing of Updraft and Earthquake that are both on massive cooldowns. And if by some miracle you somehow manage to land them… oh the opponent just stun-broke… back to indefinitely being in defensive mode and dealing minimal damage.

X/Focus vs Guardians:
Like a guardian you lose alot of mobility. But guards have better reflect, more defensive capability through better reflects, aegis and more damage through retaliation and simply being able to whack people more. They can also chase targets with their double teleport: sword 2 and judges intervention while on the other hand if you somehow start winning as a X/Focus ele, the opponent can simply run away and you won’t ever be able to catch them.

Utility:
Ele’s are pretty much forced to use 2-3 highly defensive utilities from the choice of Arcane Shield, Mist Form or Armor of Earth whereas other professions can get away with only

The ele’s utility department is totally implemented the wrong way. The fact is, even with all our skills we become pigeonholed into one playstyle and the versatility is a complete joke. Gw1 eles were versatile and powerful, Gw2 eles are just crap.

As of now the ele is incredibly predictable and underpowered in every playstyle. At this point I think it’s won’t even be overpowered if the ele gets a weapon swap. Since pretty much only die-hard people are still playing eles I don’t think they’d mind having to juggle between 40 skills anyway.

Weapon swap. Needs to happen. Don’t want eles to be PvE mobs anymore.

Agree with this post well written.

I could care less with weapon swap. I love the profession’s mechanic. I wouldn’t trade it for weapon swap. I just wish for a more balanced approach on skill cooldowns relative to the weaponset, and relative to other skills with similar effects used by other professions.

Yes, eles have double the number of skills available compared to other classes because of the fact that eles have 4 element to swap around. But most if not all the skills have huge drawbacks (CDs longer than utilities in most cases,HUGE delay add to that the cast times and rooting, very very obvious tells on each skill), the ele now becomes jack-of-all-trades-which-has-to-work-double-the-effort-just-to-get-the-same-result-as-the-other-professions-which-can-do-with-so-much-ease-what-the-ele-is-trying-to-do. I mean, yeah, some people can pull it off, but imagine what that player can do if he uses a brain-dead profession with that kind of skill level.

I don’t want them to reduce CDs on ele skills. I, for one think the ele right now is in a good spot for being balanced. The risk/reward ratio for this class is spot on, minus some bugs. What they need to do is bring down the other classes. Those that have too much AI, passive play, spammy auto-attacks, and all those brain-dead builds which can go full zerker but can still survive a whole ordeal, or tank all day long and still dish out loads of condi damage in AOE. Basically, the ones considered OP in the current meta are the ones with broken risk/reward ratio. You can win with those builds even if you haven’t read the tooltips on each and every skill and trait of that build. They are OP because they are brokenly easy to play, very easy to win with, and very tough to deal with.

Ele needs weapon swap, with swap cooldown tied to attunement cooldown. We have no build diversity precisely because we have no weapon swap, and unlike engi our utilities do not fill the gap (wtb conjures anywhere near as useful as kits).

zencow.3651:

PvE ele is top-dog dps since mobs don’t dodge.

Not sure what you’re on… but if you’re talking about LH and FG – you do realize conjures pretty much remove the entire class mechanics of an ele (access to 4 elements / 20 skills) at which point you’re far better off playing Guard or War.

Getting downed means no DPS and your conjure is gone :/

zencow.3651:

Weapon swap. Needs to happen. Don’t want eles to be PvE mobs anymore.

This will never happen and it’s a bad idea anyway. It won’t fix anything.

I only have problem with mesmer ,specially is condition mesmer .Can’t fight a mesmer when they just run around and giving torment, confution with 2 or 3 random condintion .Staff ,torch and decoy make mesmer more “uncatchable” than thief .

Delius.1968:

zencow.3651:

PvE ele is top-dog dps since mobs don’t dodge.

Not sure what you’re on… but if you’re talking about LH and FG – you do realize conjures pretty much remove the entire class mechanics of an ele (access to 4 elements / 20 skills) at which point you’re far better off playing Guard or War.

Getting downed means no DPS and your conjure is gone :/

I still consider conjures a part of the ele. Sure it breaks the ele mechanics but LH completely turns PvE into ez mode with more blinds than a Guardian as well as:

- LH outputs about the same DPS as a warrior’s axe/mace. And unless you’re trying to solo lupicus it will last you long enough that when it’s down your S/D burst is off CD and after that your LH is back again.
- Scepter/Dagger has a better burst than a Hundred Blades. Dragon’s tooth always landing and Phoenix always triple hitting puts you far ahead of professions.
- You still have access to attunes even though you don’t have access to the skills i.e. spam attunes and Air Attune with Fresh Air to squeeze out even more damage.

I typically run 20/30/0/10/10 full zerker. 30/30/0/0/10 full zerker is doable too but unnecessary; you’d only need it for extra might+fury stacking but if you’re in a non-pug you’d have others help with might+fury while pugs aren’t worth the effort since they’re probably slowing you down with PVT/condi etc anyway and won’t appreciate the extra damage where you’d take 30/0/0/20/20 instead and be yelling at pug bearbow rangers/perma staff mesmers/perma rifle warriors etc to come into melee range.

Delius.1968:

zencow.3651:

Weapon swap. Needs to happen. Don’t want eles to be PvE mobs anymore.

This will never happen and it’s a bad idea anyway. It won’t fix anything.

I know it wont happen, but it’s one of the things I dream about regularly :P

zencow.3651:

Delius.1968:

zencow.3651:

PvE ele is top-dog dps since mobs don’t dodge.

Not sure what you’re on… but if you’re talking about LH and FG – you do realize conjures pretty much remove the entire class mechanics of an ele (access to 4 elements / 20 skills) at which point you’re far better off playing Guard or War.

Getting downed means no DPS and your conjure is gone :/

I still consider conjures a part of the ele. Sure it breaks the ele mechanics but LH completely turns PvE into ez mode with more blinds than a Guardian as well as:

- LH outputs about the same DPS as a warrior’s axe/mace. And unless you’re trying to solo lupicus it will last you long enough that when it’s down your S/D burst is off CD and after that your LH is back again.

the fact is that you are playing more a copy of a warrior than your ele itself.

Also it won t work in fotm 48+ unless carried by the Group.

LordByron.8369:

zencow.3651:

Delius.1968:

zencow.3651:

PvE ele is top-dog dps since mobs don’t dodge.

Not sure what you’re on… but if you’re talking about LH and FG – you do realize conjures pretty much remove the entire class mechanics of an ele (access to 4 elements / 20 skills) at which point you’re far better off playing Guard or War.

Getting downed means no DPS and your conjure is gone :/

I still consider conjures a part of the ele. Sure it breaks the ele mechanics but LH completely turns PvE into ez mode with more blinds than a Guardian as well as:

- LH outputs about the same DPS as a warrior’s axe/mace. And unless you’re trying to solo lupicus it will last you long enough that when it’s down your S/D burst is off CD and after that your LH is back again.

the fact is that you are playing more a copy of a warrior than your ele itself.

Also it won t work in fotm 48+ unless carried by the Group.

Well until Anet gets their act together that’s as optimal as you can get. Hardmode warrior is still more fun than real warriors, as long as DPS is potentially on par I personally don’t mind.

But no, I don’t consider getting aegised and projectiley-defended by guardians and mesmers being carried; it’s their obligation to do so for having less DPS.

How 1111111111111 is more fun than spin2win? I don’t get it.

zencow.3651:

But no, I don’t consider getting aegised and projectiley-defended by guardians and mesmers being carried; it’s their obligation to do so for having less DPS.

If only mesmer and guardian had really low dps ………but they just outdps an ele without conjured by a mile.
I don t know without a fgs BUG if an ele can outdps a mesmer in the same situation where you can afford to melee with impunity.

haviz.1340:

How 1111111111111 is more fun than spin2win? I don’t get it.

Cause overall there’s more variation in buttons compared to warrior who are overall even more 111111111111 based.

You have your ele mode button mashing in S/D or D/D,
and then you have your conjures to turn into a super warrior then you have LH 111111 and your own spin2win with FGS.

And even while 1111111111ing, you can at the same time f1 f2 f3 f2 f4 f2 f1 f2 f3 f2 with Fresh Air to spam Air Attunement’s Electric Discharge.

If what your signature says is right you should realise conjure builds don’t swap attunement and have ~85% uptime of LH for 1 minute. And most fights don’t last even 30 seconds. There’s no variety unless you find a wall.

Typical warrior should use 7-10 buttons for weapon skills.

LordByron.8369:

zencow.3651:

But no, I don’t consider getting aegised and projectiley-defended by guardians and mesmers being carried; it’s their obligation to do so for having less DPS.

If only mesmer and guardian had really low dps ………but they just outdps an ele without conjured by a mile.
I don t know without a fgs BUG if an ele can outdps a mesmer in the same situation where you can afford to melee with impunity.

Sauce?

I’m not 100% confident with the numbers but afaik vs mesmer with D/D your Lightning Whip is stronger than mesmer’s sword auto. Your bursts are more or less the same as mesmer’s other skills + mind wrack/phants assuming the phants die after 1-2 skill uses. Mesmers do have it easier in though against bosses with blurred frenzy and more so with sword offhand.

If you chose to abandon conjures then I will also chose to ignore reflect damage

The main problem is the casting time. It’s like when the developers balanced the elementalist they didn’t take into consideration that their spell take up to 3 seconds longer to cast and and therefore are interrupted half the time.

Either reduce the casting time and animation speed by 33-50% or boost the damage of ele spells by 20-25%.

The weapon swap is the second problem. Every ele play both dagger and staff, let us swap like every other class even if it’s just to free inventory space and cannot be used in battle (because in truth we know by now you will probably never buff the ele if you can accept it in his current state).

Third problem: aoe limit. It encourage zerging and is a massive nerf to the ele. We do not even know who’s going to get hit by our spells, it makes bunch of control spells like staff-air-5 half useless.

zencow.3651:

LordByron.8369:

If only mesmer and guardian had really low dps ………but they just outdps an ele without conjured by a mile.
I don t know without a fgs BUG if an ele can outdps a mesmer in the same situation where you can afford to melee with impunity.

Sauce?

I’m not 100% confident with the numbers but afaik vs mesmer with D/D your Lightning Whip is stronger than mesmer’s sword auto. Your bursts are more or less the same as mesmer’s other skills + mind wrack/phants assuming the phants die after 1-2 skill uses. Mesmers do have it easier in though against bosses with blurred frenzy and more so with sword offhand.

This is what makes the discussion so tough…people ‘feel’ the ele deals less damage than other professions, but is that actually true? Anyone who’s got some good data?

haviz.1340:

If what your signature says is right you should realise conjure builds don’t swap attunement and have ~85% uptime of LH for 1 minute. And most fights don’t last even 30 seconds. There’s no variety unless you find a wall.

Typical warrior should use 7-10 buttons for weapon skills.

I’m slightly out of date so I had assumed Fresh Air was the superior new thing in town. You have put me in my place.

Literally paying a thief = f1 (stealth) or 5 – 1 – 2222 -1111 (guy dead)

Literally playing a staff ele = f3 -5 /interrupted – f1 -2 -5 -3 – f4 2 – 5 – f3 – f2 3-5-4 (why is that spell so slow!) – f4-f4-f4-f4 (f4 kitten it recharge) – oh noes Im gonna die -f2 – f2 -f2 – 6 / interrupted / 789 (pop all utilities) yay mist form noooooo I have 15 stacks of bleeding (health is going down), jump off cliff.

zencow.3651:

LordByron.8369:

zencow.3651:

But no, I don’t consider getting aegised and projectiley-defended by guardians and mesmers being carried; it’s their obligation to do so for having less DPS.

If only mesmer and guardian had really low dps ………but they just outdps an ele without conjured by a mile.
I don t know without a fgs BUG if an ele can outdps a mesmer in the same situation where you can afford to melee with impunity.

Sauce?

I’m not 100% confident with the numbers but afaik vs mesmer with D/D your Lightning Whip is stronger than mesmer’s sword auto.

Mesmer sword autoattack removes boons gives vulnerability and do more damage once target is without boons …. (something like 1700-1700-3000)

Not to mention the 10 second Blurred frenzy……(7000)

Oh and you can easily keep your defiant target in place while you kill it (sw3-3), things that ele cannot.

Your bursts are more or less the same as mesmer’s other skills + mind wrack/phants assuming the phants die after 1-2 skill uses.

12-13K of a single iwarden excluding bleed and confusion
Phantasms won t die so easily in boss fights as you could think….they are immune to many Attacks also….

Mesmers do have it easier in though against bosses with blurred frenzy and more so with sword offhand.

sword offhand is not so good for lot of reasons in PvE :/ (less bleeding/confusion and phantasms die fast).

But the best part is that between BF, distortion, evasions and reflects….paired with higher base HP, you can actually stay melee without the need of a guardian keeping you alive.
Reason why in many dungeons mesmers use SW/X SW/Y

If you chose to abandon conjures then I will also chose to ignore reflect damage

No because reflect doesn t cut me out from my skills….oh and if i get downed phantasms doesn t disappear going on an insance CD.

I was tired of the low dps ele had, changed to mesmer…NEVER complained of mesmer DPS.
On the opposite i just stopped to use ele until it will become fun again to play…..

(p.s. i d say that against most bosses you can have 13-26000 damage every 10 sec from phantasms…against stupid bosses you can get up to 40.000 + mesmer dps + bleed and confusion + reflect if projectiles are involved……but the best part is that you risk MUCH less and in a traited phantasm build you can replace phantasms really fast something like 12-15 CD on each of the 2 you have)

The real issue for ele is infact sustained damage.

LordByron.8369:

Mesmer sword autoattack removes boons gives vulnerability and do more damage once target is without boons …. (something like 1700-1700-3000)

Not to mention the 10 second Blurred frenzy……(7000)

Oh and you can easily keep your defiant target in place while you kill it (sw3-3), things that ele cannot.

Balls deep into Air 25 you can maintain around 10 stacks of vulnerability passively. Base zerker Lightning Whip crits for 2k+ twice, with an attack rate of 1.15 seconds according to wiki.

Blurred frenzy takes about 3 seconds to complete so it’s pretty much as useful vs mesmer auto as Pistol Whip vs sword auto on thief.

I don’t see how pausing your DPSing to use the immobilize is necessary, please elaborate.

12-13K of a single iwarden excluding bleed and confusion
Phantasms won t die so easily in boss fights as you could think….they are immune to many Attacks also….

I’m familiar with these numbers. Bear in mind it only deals around 8-10 stacks of bleeding but only for 4 seconds and not affected by condi duration so it’s only ~2000 extra and ~400 from confusion. Duelist deals 8-10k with potential for 8 stacks of confusion but less bleed. Warden’s on a 20-25 recharge and Duelist is on 16-20 recharge vs Burning Speed + Ring of Fire that deals ~10-12k together and around 6 seconds burning for an extra ~2400+ damage with 12 recharge since you would take Pyromancer’s Aclarity over Conjurer. You also have Fire Grab at 8k damage at 36 recharge for every third ‘burst’. So yes, even if the mesmer is Sw/F and Sw/P and rotating his phants, as long as the phantasms quickly die after using one skill as they usually do then non-conjure ele is on top, ele is on par if you shatter in time before they die and mesmer is better if phants survive as expected.

No because reflect doesn t cut me out from my skills….oh and if i get downed phantasms doesn t disappear going on an insance CD.

I wasn’t thinking along those lines. It was more of a defiant statement from me. The way things are eles are expected to use conjures as much as mesmers and guardians are expected to reflect.

I was tired of the low dps ele had, changed to mesmer…NEVER complained of mesmer DPS.

I got tired of the ez mode of guardian and mesmer, never got used to ranger sword and got too bored with warrior and necro, found engi too confusing. So I went back to ele.

Xillllix.3485:

Literally paying a thief = f1 (stealth) or 5 – 1 – 2222 -1111 (guy dead)

Literally playing a staff ele = f3 -5 /interrupted – f1 -2 -5 -3 – f4 2 – 5 – f3 – f2 3-5-4 (why is that spell so slow!) – f4-f4-f4-f4 (f4 kitten it recharge) – oh noes Im gonna die -f2 – f2 -f2 – 6 / interrupted / 789 (pop all utilities) yay mist form noooooo I have 15 stacks of bleeding (health is going down), jump off cliff.

Ahahahah! This made my day XD
However, yesterday I was amazed when I saw a Staff Ele dueling with a decent Guardian and actually managing to ALMOST kill him. Too bad a zerg came and killed that Ele, I wanted to see how that fight would have ended.

Really, at the moment our bane are thieves. I rerolled thief when I saw how easy it was for them to kill me. I don’t have many problems in dealing with any other class as a D/D-S/D Ele, really.

zencow.3651:

LordByron.8369:

Mesmer sword autoattack removes boons gives vulnerability and do more damage once target is without boons …. (something like 1700-1700-3000)

Not to mention the 10 second Blurred frenzy……(7000)

Oh and you can easily keep your defiant target in place while you kill it (sw3-3), things that ele cannot.

Balls deep into Air 25 you can maintain around 10 stacks of vulnerability passively. Base zerker Lightning Whip crits for 2k+ twice, with an attack rate of 1.15 seconds according to wiki.

Blurred frenzy takes about 3 seconds to complete so it’s pretty much as useful vs mesmer auto as Pistol Whip vs sword auto on thief.

Please give elementalist a 3 second 7000 damage CD 10 attack with 2,5 seconds of evasion…..

BF is the reason i play mesmer.

I don’t see how pausing your DPSing to use the immobilize is necessary, please elaborate.

some boss/players moves a lot.
take mossma for example. reduce elementalist DPS of a LOT because you can t hit him
Mesmer can….easily.

also you don t pause your dps….you launch ain illusion and switch with it at will…takes less time than an evasion to trigger EA.

I’m familiar with these numbers. Bear in mind it only deals around 8-10 stacks of bleeding but only for 4 seconds and not affected by +condi duration so it’s only ~2000 extra and ~400 from confusion. Duelist deals 8-10k with potential for 8 stacks of confusion but less bleed. Warden’s on a 20-25 recharge and Duelist is on 16-20 recharge

But mesmer has traits…
Looks at Illusionary celerity + warden feedback…….happy 40% reduction. i forgot if it becomes 12 or more…..but something like that.

vs Burning Speed + Ring of Fire that deals ~10-12k together and around 6+ seconds burning for an extra ~2400+ damage with 12 recharge since you would take Pyromancer’s Aclarity over Conjurer. You also have Fire Grab at 8k damage at 36 recharge for every third ‘burst’.

not even close.
remember that mesmer is the profession and not the phantasm.
And that ele not only risk seriously to stay melee full zerker while mesmer doesn t need to melee at all.

Finally ele loses lot of time in repositioning or your burning speed miss….and that costs evasions or lot of time….

That is comparable to shatter builds for mesmer……that sacrifice evasion for damage, but has a different burst

Phantasm instead has no burst…what you are comparing is ele burst to mesmer sustained damage.

So yes, even if the mesmer is Sw/F and Sw/P and rotating his phants, as long as the phantasms quickly die after using one skill as they usually do then non-conjure ele is on top, ele is on par if you shatter in time before they die and mesmer is better if phants survive as expected.

Even in this non existent scenario is not so.
I don t agree with your data mostly because you take in account a fight so easy that an ele can melee without repositioning and stuff, BUT that kills phantasms.

The only situation like that in Whole game could be cof1 final boss, but mesmer get ahed of dps just with reflections.

In every other scenario…phantasms won t die easily….and ele won t be able to melee easily.

Even subject Alpha let you keep more than 2 phantasms permanently UP.

Ele wins only in trash fights where mesmer is quite bad :/ as dps….(but has better support).

I wasn’t thinking along those lines. It was more of a defiant statement from me. The way things are eles are expected to use conjures as much as mesmers and guardians are expected to reflect.

mesmer are not expected to use reflect.
Ele is in abad state having to rely on a single gimmick build, very situational and unreliable.

Mesmer can choose between 3-4 different common builds and has lot of space for your own build…….

I got tired of the ez mode of guardian and mesmer, never got used to ranger sword and got too bored with warrior and necro, found engi too confusing. So I went back to ele.

Mesmer is not easy mode…
And if you are tired of easy mode mesmer you don t play a build that asks you to 1111111 or 3-4 against a wall.
That is even worse than a warrior.

Not to mention that if you want to be effective at your role, mesmer needs lot of concentration and timing.
because you have to support and dps at the same time.

Ele WAS fun…..and was ruined….
lets hope devs will fix what pvp has destroyed.

First of, landing Burning Speed is easy. Afaik in gw2 you can attack while moving so I don’t see how that dimishes your damage output at all. For melee bosses you tend to be constantly moving to stay behind them anyway.

Even considering boss movement, warden has the worse issue of pushing the boss away/ the boss doesn’t stand in it’s full duration. and since it’s spawned location is incredibly random pushing the boss into a wall doesn’t work 100% of the time. Thus for melee bosses I prefer swordsman since they output more damage overall with PH and can be pulled out quicker next to duelist.

Getting tired of quoting, IC and Weapon based phant CDR DO NOT STACK, hence the Guang’s suggested 0/25/0/25/20 if going full phantasm. Base recharge of warden is 25, it can only go as low as 20. Base recharge of iDuelist and iSwordsman are both 20, reduced to 16, which I prefer over warden when optimal since the coinciding recharge soothes the reptilian part of the brain as they are immediately available as soon as weapon cd recharges, unlike having 16/20 with duelist/warden or swordsman/warden.

LordByron.8369:

Mesmer is not easy mode…

Your love for BF even though its subpar damage states otherwise.

And if you are tired of easy mode mesmer you don t play a build that asks you to 1111111 or 3-4 against a wall.

If you wanna play it that way, you’re pretty much using mesmer like a warrior too and completely ignoring the mesmer’s shatter mechanics in favor of gimmickly stacking phantasms, mashing 111111 and 2 when you need to.
As for 11111111 LHing I’m still not entirely convinced forgoing Fresh Air to sit full time in water is better.

Mesmer needs lot of concentration and timing.
because you have to support and dps at the same time.

What profession doesn’t need a abit of field awareness? You admitted yourself that you prefer mesmer for it’s survivability and not needing to move around.

Water is 20% more deeps. Fresh Air is one lightning strike every ~5s that deals about 4k dmg fully buffed.

LordByron.8369:

But mesmer has traits…
Looks at Illusionary celerity + warden feedback…….happy 40% reduction. i forgot if it becomes 12 or more…..but something like that.

Sorry to tell you but those traits don’t stack. You take IC and none of the others will, so its a 20% reduction, down to 20seconds from 25seconds. You then can dodge, interrupt, Blind and stun the Mesmer. If you are unlucky and it summons at most 3-kittens based on reactions before you dodge out of the way.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Sorry to tell you but those traits don’t stack. You take IC and none of the others will, so its a 20% reduction, down to 20seconds from 25seconds. You then can dodge, interrupt, Blind and stun the Mesmer. If you are unlucky and it summons at most 3-kittens based on reactions before you dodge out of the way.

Getting tired of quoting, IC and Weapon based phant CDR DO NOT STACK,

from wiki
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionists_Celerity

Stacks with traits that reduce recharge time of weapon skills for a total 40% reduction of recharge time for weapon skills that generate illusions.

…
Any phantams mesmer can confirn is not an error….our build base on that stacking ….and its the reason why the IC nerf from 5 to 25 points was a huge hit….

zencow.3651:

First of, landing Burning Speed is easy. Afaik in gw2 you can attack while moving so I don’t see how that dimishes your damage output at all. For melee bosses you tend to be constantly moving to stay behind them anyway.

BS is an opener….if you are in fight burning speed range is out of your optimal range for dps, that makes you burn an evasion to reposition fast or dps…..
Add that if you have EA you are burning other evasions for combos…..

Even considering boss movement, warden has the worse issue of pushing the boss away/ the boss doesn’t stand in it’s full duration.

._. what? if you have 3 and you play like you say in the next part of your message…no wonder you have those type of issues….
That is why main habd sword has 3 and not 2 skills.

and since it’s spawned location is incredibly random pushing the boss into a wall doesn’t work 100% of the time.

you are wrong

Thus for melee bosses I prefer swordsman since they output more damage overall with PH and can be pulled out quicker next to duelist.

swordman stack less bleeding
swordman die really easy in pve
swordman force you in an OH weapon with a useless second skill in pve.

hence the Guang’s suggested 0/25/0/25/20 if going full phantasm. Base recharge of warden is 25, it can only go as low as 20.

aside being wrong best pve phantasm builds are 10/10/0/25/25 and 0/20/0/25/25….
Those happens to be extremely similar and comparable to elementalist traiting.

Your love for BF even though its subpar damage states otherwise.

Another really easy concept for you…
An evasion does 0 damage
BF does 7000

And if you are tired of easy mode mesmer you don t play a build that asks you to 1111111 or 3-4 against a wall.

That is possibly how you play mesmer…you don t seems an experienced mesmer player…
that is possibly why you don t like the profession

ignoring the mesmer’s shatter mechanics in favor of gimmickly stacking phantasms,

What are the best things in PvE?

1) dps
2) support
3) antiprojectiles

Doing all 3 at the same time require skill…..you pressing 111111 means you don t grasp yet how mesmer works…..that is not a problem with mesmer.

Shatter is clearly a pvp/www build (was also my first build) since burst in pve is useless.

Mesmer needs lot of concentration and timing.
because you have to support and dps at the same time.

What profession doesn’t need a abit of field awareness? You admitted yourself that you prefer mesmer for it’s survivability and not needing to move around.

as i said you don t do your mesmer job if you play like you written…..

The sad part is ele CAN T do that.

You can t go DD on a whole fractal run because you die if not carried.
(if you are one of the few that can you d still do better wuith any other profession)

You can t use focus because your dps dies

You can t use staff/scepter because you can t hit most targets unless you have someone to keep them still.

You just live with what you have being aware that you are subpar…….or rely to gimmick.

In that case i could say mesmer can do 300.000 damage with some skills that are almost as situational as a cantrip ele.

LordByron.8369:

from wiki
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionists_Celerity

Stacks with traits that reduce recharge time of weapon skills for a total 40% reduction of recharge time for weapon skills that generate illusions.

I guess Phantasm Mesmers know what will be nerfed soon then, along with the 20% Damage that has been spreading the forums i think this will be nerfed as well.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

LordByron.8369:

from wiki
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionists_Celerity

Stacks with traits that reduce recharge time of weapon skills for a total 40% reduction of recharge time for weapon skills that generate illusions.

I guess Phantasm Mesmers know what will be nerfed soon then, along with the 20% Damage that has been spreading the forums i think this will be nerfed as well.

Actually has already been nerfed last patch……as i said IC went from 5 to 25 points.

And there is no reason for more nerfs since in PvE mesmer struggles to be the 4th 5th profession while in PvP is currently fighting for the last place with ele.

LordByron.8369:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

LordByron.8369:

from wiki
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionists_Celerity

Stacks with traits that reduce recharge time of weapon skills for a total 40% reduction of recharge time for weapon skills that generate illusions.

I guess Phantasm Mesmers know what will be nerfed soon then, along with the 20% Damage that has been spreading the forums i think this will be nerfed as well.

Actually has already been nerfed last patch……as i said IC went from 5 to 25 points.

And there is no reason for more nerfs since in PvE mesmer struggles to be the 4th 5th profession while in PvP is currently fighting for the last place with ele.

Sure it shouldn’t be nerfed, but you know Anet controlled by the casuals. If they want something nerfed, its going to get nerfed. You seen all the posts and threads dotted pretty much everywhere saying for ALL illusions to have a 20% damage nerf.

You can bet WHEN that happens, Anet wont bother buffing the class elsewhere. No Phantasm build (that i have seen anyway) goes into Illusions anyway. Sure IC is greakittens not worth 25trait points as the rest all terrible for Phantasm builds.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

actually many pve dungeon/fotm players did.
IC still provides more dps and reliability.

Most famous Phantasm build (and the best imho) was
20/20/0/25/5

The author first opted for 20/20/0/30/0
After tests changed to 10/10/0/25/25
I instead did mine and went 0/20/0/25/25

Nobody wants phant nerfed in pvp nor in WWW….it got hit as heavy as ele with recent nerfs.
Luckily the profession is way more versatile that could be adapted for PvE at least.

Thing i m still not able to do with ele….whatever i try :/

Maybe oneday i ll find someone posting a great build that works… i still couldn t find one myself :<

LordByron.8369:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

actually many pve dungeon/fotm players did.
IC still provides more dps and reliability.

Most famous Phantasm build (and the best imho) was
20/20/0/25/5

The author first opted for 20/20/0/30/0
After tests changed to 10/10/0/25/25
I instead did mine and went 0/20/0/25/25

Nobody wants phant nerfed in pvp nor in WWW….it got hit as heavy as ele with recent nerfs.
Luckily the profession is way more versatile that could be adapted for PvE at least.

Thing i m still not able to do with ele….whatever i try :/

Maybe oneday i ll find someone posting a great build that works… i still couldn t find one myself :<

Meh, PvE means nothing. You can do all the events in all hite gear and no traits anyway. Of course dungeons and fractuals are different. I still think there are better options about 20/25/0/20/0 is a pretty good one, with the right gear it can be very strong in WvW.

Though i got bored of my Phantasm build, it jst felt to easy, pretty much doing nothing but summon a few illusions and watch them melt.

Also people DO want it nerfed, its in quite a few different forums asking for it to be nerfed, so i would hazard a guess and say it WILL be. Anet messed up with the design of Mesmer for Phantasm builds too much of the damage is from the Phantasm

i don t play open pve ._. i play only dungeon and fotms.

and afaik excluding 1 or 2 random unexperienced players……..i see the general opinion is that mesmer and eles are the most struggling professions in current meta.

Also afaik mesmer doesn t have ele history of nerf magnet….since gw1 ._.

Its the only profession that got nerfs when was considered a free kill XD

Erm until recently we have been nerfed ALOT. Sure might not be to the same extent but lets face it BETA and just after Ele WAS the strongest class. Unfortunately this is Anet and they do what they are known for – Making a mess of things and decided to over nerf them week after week.

haviz.1340:

Water is 20% more deeps. Fresh Air is one lightning strike every ~5s that deals about 4k dmg fully buffed.

But 30 Air vs 20 Air means you help maintain the 5-10 vulnerability stacks, 10% more crit damage, and have 4-5% more crit chance and you take the +10% while in air attune. You still take Vital Striking so you’re really just missing 10% Air Training vs Piercing Shards and the 1% per boon that used to be 2% per?

LordByron.8369:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Sorry to tell you but those traits don’t stack. You take IC and none of the others will, so its a 20% reduction, down to 20seconds from 25seconds. You then can dodge, interrupt, Blind and stun the Mesmer. If you are unlucky and it summons at most 3-kittens based on reactions before you dodge out of the way.

Getting tired of quoting, IC and Weapon based phant CDR DO NOT STACK,

from wiki
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionists_Celerity

Stacks with traits that reduce recharge time of weapon skills for a total 40% reduction of recharge time for weapon skills that generate illusions.

…
Any phantams mesmer can confirn is not an error….our build base on that stacking ….and its the reason why the IC nerf from 5 to 25 points was a huge hit….

etc

Nope they never stacked even back when IC was 5 Illusion. Wiki has long since been outdated. Do you even mesmer?

And I remain firm on 3-3 being useless unless you plan to shatter with the resultant clone. The 1 second immob does little to assist in keeping a boss, you’re better off spamming 1 or better yet, use swordsman on melee bosses.

Warden sux vs non projectile bosses, if you actually took the leisure of bringing a stop watch you’d know with PH Warden only attacks once every ~13 seconds while Swordsman attacks once every ~3.5 seconds for 5-6k a hit and can be pulled out again much sooner after it dies. Again, the bleeding only adds about 2k damage to warden. Swordsman also dies much less since it leaps backwards away and doesn’t get pooped on by bosses cleave.

I guess trivially chaining Warden -> Temporal Curtain -> Feedback -> Warden and pressing SoI doesn’t take alot of concentration for me but I guess it is for someone who doesn’t even even know their own cooldowns…

You can keep trying to argue theorycraft but for someone who claims to Fotm alot judging from your comments you don’t seem to LoS and stack very much?

PS: I do tend to overstate auto-attacks alot it’s really what to do for the majority of the time. Even for s/d ele in pvp I think of them as being solely channeling 1 and mashing 2 and then 3 whenever needed but it’s really much more than that.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Erm until recently we have been nerfed ALOT. Sure might not be to the same extent but lets face it BETA and just after Ele WAS the strongest class. Unfortunately this is Anet and they do what they are known for – Making a mess of things and decided to over nerf them week after week.

But but hey, spirit rangers and necroes used to be OP in PRE-beta and they were only just brought back recently. Maybe eles will be OP again soon. Fingers-crossed.

zencow.3651:

LordByron.8369:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Sorry to tell you but those traits don’t stack. You take IC and none of the others will, so its a 20% reduction, down to 20seconds from 25seconds. You then can dodge, interrupt, Blind and stun the Mesmer. If you are unlucky and it summons at most 3-kittens based on reactions before you dodge out of the way.

Getting tired of quoting, IC and Weapon based phant CDR DO NOT STACK,

from wiki
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionists_Celerity

Stacks with traits that reduce recharge time of weapon skills for a total 40% reduction of recharge time for weapon skills that generate illusions.

…
Any phantams mesmer can confirn is not an error….our build base on that stacking ….and its the reason why the IC nerf from 5 to 25 points was a huge hit….

etc

Nope they never stacked even back when IC was 5 Illusion. Wiki has long since been outdated. Do you even mesmer?

could you please stop spreading disinformation?

Thank you
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-Cool-Down-and-Traits-concern

Can post as many sources you want since you don t want to launch the game and check for yourself.

Being rude and wrong is quite silly….

If IC didn t stack it wouldn t be used in every single phantasm build nor would have been nerfed.

The rest of your theory crafting is as well uninformed but its your interest to learn mesmer if you care and its not pertinent here.

You win that round. I opened the game and looked at the tooltip and it still said I was right.

Nek minnit I press the skill and Duelist/Swordsman and it’s 12 CD and Warden is 15 CD.

Sorry for being rude.

But since I heard you liked to PuG. I doubt you get enough might stacks and fury to do higher than than ele even when there is potential for it. The ele numbers I’ve been using were based on 3 might stacks. The numbers get much more inflated when you’re constantly at 20-25 from simply being an ele.

Now I’ll play my trump card:

And then you factor in the fact that might has much reduced effects on mesmers and phantasms steal might stacks due to AoE might limit of 5 targets and there you have it, mesmers are still a burden.

zencow.3651:

Nek minnit I press the skill and Duelist/Swordsman and it’s 12 CD and Warden is 15 CD.

You can find in mesmer section phantasm analysys.
Iswordman seems the best ends up being the worse.

Is less reliable than iduelist and less dps than iwarden…also iwarden is aoe (and absorb/reflects)

But since I heard you liked to PuG. I doubt you get enough might stacks and fury to do higher than than ele even when there is potential for it.

My main once was elementalist….its sad how an ele has to burn a long and situational combo (range) when a mesmer press a button to get the same result on a lower CD :/
In most parties.
(Signet)

Was one of the first thing that made me think how ele is bad in pve….

And then you factor in the fact that might has much reduced effects on mesmers and phantasms steal might stacks due to AoE might limit of 5 targets and there you have it, mesmers are still a burden.

It was a recent bug and was fixed afaik.

zencow.3651:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Erm until recently we have been nerfed ALOT. Sure might not be to the same extent but lets face it BETA and just after Ele WAS the strongest class. Unfortunately this is Anet and they do what they are known for – Making a mess of things and decided to over nerf them week after week.

But but hey, spirit rangers and necroes used to be OP in PRE-beta and they were only just brought back recently. Maybe eles will be OP again soon. Fingers-crossed.

We can only hope.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

zencow.3651:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Erm until recently we have been nerfed ALOT. Sure might not be to the same extent but lets face it BETA and just after Ele WAS the strongest class. Unfortunately this is Anet and they do what they are known for – Making a mess of things and decided to over nerf them week after week.

But but hey, spirit rangers and necroes used to be OP in PRE-beta and they were only just brought back recently. Maybe eles will be OP again soon. Fingers-crossed.

We can only hope.

maybe in 6 years. it’s like they’re trying to run on Valve time

SilverUniverse.7103:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

zencow.3651:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Erm until recently we have been nerfed ALOT. Sure might not be to the same extent but lets face it BETA and just after Ele WAS the strongest class. Unfortunately this is Anet and they do what they are known for – Making a mess of things and decided to over nerf them week after week.

But but hey, spirit rangers and necroes used to be OP in PRE-beta and they were only just brought back recently. Maybe eles will be OP again soon. Fingers-crossed.

We can only hope.

maybe in 6 years. it’s like they’re trying to run on Valve time

6 years? it will be fixed when they release Guild Wars 5 lol