Ele will be fine with out cele if
Its probably much better if they stick with their initial plan of doing nothing and hoping that the problem somehow solves itself before just reintroducing cele a year from now because they have no idea what they are doing.
Don´t nerf aura duration would be a begining…. Then buff scepter autoattacks and look at all our utilities and tune them… Give us a realy good elite.
It could be worse, at least were not as kitten as thieves x)
ele is adaptable and i even didb´t use cele amulet and DS ^^. I agree the amulet is strong for ele.
Make all weapon conjures behave like engis kits.
Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE
Make all weapon conjures behave like engis kits.
You probably don’t use conjured weapons yourself.
Alerie Despins
Consider the number of changes they’d have to make to let this happen, do you really think they’re going to do that?
Ele will be fine with out cele if …
…people stop trying to use the same builds they see today on metabattle and try to adapt and innovate.
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
Ele will be fine with out cele if …
…people stop trying to use the same builds they see today on metabattle and try to adapt and innovate.
I actually tried. I thought to myself (not really, but i gave it a shot), maybe we can run power builds now! Hell no, the damage ele does in pvp is completely pathetic, you die if anyone sneezes at you and if you wanna run more survability then you’ll be basically healing your enemies.
How about some hp ele? Yeah, try that without vit or toughness and we’ll see how long you’ll survive.
It comes down to the fact that the stats ele has are a complete joke. You wanna run support/bruiser build? Well, then you need exactly the stats on celestial amulet, that’s getting removed. You might try cleric, but it’s basically a suicide or Mender’s, but that’s completely the same, but you’ll be dying to different things. Hey, at least you can pick your poision.
Wanna play dps ele? Amazing, all you need to do is to reroll.
Sure, there are gonna be people making all kind of builds and then act like it totally works somewhere below the amber division, but in reality if ele is not getting some serious buffs, we’ll be seeing much less of the class, especially in tournaments and high lvl pvp. It’s how it works, there will be better classes to play and if playing ele is hurting your team, you probably should reroll. Just like warriors had to.
Mesmer was in this situation but they got some free GM traits, would be cool if ele had it too, and more hp
Arcane Bastion [AB]
Elementalist Mesmer Ranger
Sea of Sorrows
Elementalist Mesmer Ranger
Sea of Sorrows
We can have elemental attunement and evasive aracana baseline. Now that celestial amulet is going to be gone forever and energy sigil being nerfed to vigor I think it would be completely fine to give these two traits to the elementalist as part of their baseline perks. This change would help out soo much witgh diversity. If you’re truely going to balance every three months just take the risk and see how it goes.
This about as likely as the good old Fast Hands baseline.
Ele will be fine with out cele if …
…people stop trying to use the same builds they see today on metabattle and try to adapt and innovate.
I actually tried. I thought to myself (not really, but i gave it a shot), maybe we can run power builds now! Hell no, the damage ele does in pvp is completely pathetic, you die if anyone sneezes at you and if you wanna run more survability then you’ll be basically healing your enemies.
How about some hp ele? Yeah, try that without vit or toughness and we’ll see how long you’ll survive.
It comes down to the fact that the stats ele has are a complete joke. You wanna run support/bruiser build? Well, then you need exactly the stats on celestial amulet, that’s getting removed. You might try cleric, but it’s basically a suicide or Mender’s, but that’s completely the same, but you’ll be dying to different things. Hey, at least you can pick your poision.
Wanna play dps ele? Amazing, all you need to do is to reroll.
Sure, there are gonna be people making all kind of builds and then act like it totally works somewhere below the amber division, but in reality if ele is not getting some serious buffs, we’ll be seeing much less of the class, especially in tournaments and high lvl pvp. It’s how it works, there will be better classes to play and if playing ele is hurting your team, you probably should reroll. Just like warriors had to.
Well, I find the new amulets quite viable and even as an improvement. Why? because damage was greatly boosted and in some cases healing power! while keeping basically the same vitality (toughness is not as important imho while perma protection). this might not be enough to be the same bunker we used to be, but at least survibability wil be there while we deal our damge.
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
Ele will be fine with out cele if …
…people stop trying to use the same builds they see today on metabattle and try to adapt and innovate.
I actually tried. I thought to myself (not really, but i gave it a shot), maybe we can run power builds now! Hell no, the damage ele does in pvp is completely pathetic, you die if anyone sneezes at you and if you wanna run more survability then you’ll be basically healing your enemies.
How about some hp ele? Yeah, try that without vit or toughness and we’ll see how long you’ll survive.
It comes down to the fact that the stats ele has are a complete joke. You wanna run support/bruiser build? Well, then you need exactly the stats on celestial amulet, that’s getting removed. You might try cleric, but it’s basically a suicide or Mender’s, but that’s completely the same, but you’ll be dying to different things. Hey, at least you can pick your poision.
Wanna play dps ele? Amazing, all you need to do is to reroll.
Sure, there are gonna be people making all kind of builds and then act like it totally works somewhere below the amber division, but in reality if ele is not getting some serious buffs, we’ll be seeing much less of the class, especially in tournaments and high lvl pvp. It’s how it works, there will be better classes to play and if playing ele is hurting your team, you probably should reroll. Just like warriors had to.
Well, I find the new amulets quite viable and even as an improvement. Why? because damage was greatly boosted and in some cases healing power! while keeping basically the same vitality (toughness is not as important imho while perma protection). this might not be enough to be the same bunker we used to be, but at least survibability wil be there while we deal our damge.
Toughness is not important when there will be reapers running around corrupting your precious protection? When thieves got damage buffs? Okay.
I did not run cele and i did test how much toughness feels good.
It is the 560 spot. without toughness i got troubles. Settlers was noticeable but lacked damage for me. 900 toughness did´t make noticeable diffrence. I run wanderes + soldier rune and this feels the right spot. Wanderer with toughness and precision swaped would be perfect for my playstyle.
The main defence is protection. If its riped once i usualy can reaply but constant destruction will kill me.
(edited by Wolfric.9380)
Ele will be fine with out cele if …
…people stop trying to use the same builds they see today on metabattle and try to adapt and innovate.
I actually tried. I thought to myself (not really, but i gave it a shot), maybe we can run power builds now! Hell no, the damage ele does in pvp is completely pathetic, you die if anyone sneezes at you and if you wanna run more survability then you’ll be basically healing your enemies.
How about some hp ele? Yeah, try that without vit or toughness and we’ll see how long you’ll survive.
It comes down to the fact that the stats ele has are a complete joke. You wanna run support/bruiser build? Well, then you need exactly the stats on celestial amulet, that’s getting removed. You might try cleric, but it’s basically a suicide or Mender’s, but that’s completely the same, but you’ll be dying to different things. Hey, at least you can pick your poision.
Wanna play dps ele? Amazing, all you need to do is to reroll.
Sure, there are gonna be people making all kind of builds and then act like it totally works somewhere below the amber division, but in reality if ele is not getting some serious buffs, we’ll be seeing much less of the class, especially in tournaments and high lvl pvp. It’s how it works, there will be better classes to play and if playing ele is hurting your team, you probably should reroll. Just like warriors had to.
Well, I find the new amulets quite viable and even as an improvement. Why? because damage was greatly boosted and in some cases healing power! while keeping basically the same vitality (toughness is not as important imho while perma protection). this might not be enough to be the same bunker we used to be, but at least survibability wil be there while we deal our damge.
Toughness is not important when there will be reapers running around corrupting your precious protection? When thieves got damage buffs? Okay.
Re apply?
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
I did not run cele and i did test how much toughness feels good.
It is the 560 spot. without toughness i got troubles. Settlers was noticeable but lacked damage for me. 900 toughness did´t make noticeable diffrence. I run wanderes + soldier rune and this feels the right spot. Wanderer with toughness and precision swaped would be perfect for my playstyle.
The main defence is protection. If its riped once i usualy can reaply but constant destruction will kill me.
Totally agree! the question is, who can totally constantly rip enough boons so fast (usually prot is not alone) … one necro alone can’t … can only see this scenario under focuss fire, but under this scenario, cele amulet or not wouldn’t make much difference.
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
So DS rework or cele removal is no issue for me and it´s good.
The booncorupt and aura shortening is what i realy dislike. It just hurts all eles and not the cele/DS meta and that is bad.
A non cele/DS ele already has a hard time agaisnt reapers. No need to push this further.
An the thing is. 1s off only realy concerns me for fire aura. The aura considerd weakest should be buffed not shafted. Shorten the other 3 and make +1 to fire aura ^^.
Ele will be fine with out cele if …
…people stop trying to use the same builds they see today on metabattle and try to adapt and innovate.
I actually tried. I thought to myself (not really, but i gave it a shot), maybe we can run power builds now! Hell no, the damage ele does in pvp is completely pathetic, you die if anyone sneezes at you and if you wanna run more survability then you’ll be basically healing your enemies.
How about some hp ele? Yeah, try that without vit or toughness and we’ll see how long you’ll survive.
It comes down to the fact that the stats ele has are a complete joke. You wanna run support/bruiser build? Well, then you need exactly the stats on celestial amulet, that’s getting removed. You might try cleric, but it’s basically a suicide or Mender’s, but that’s completely the same, but you’ll be dying to different things. Hey, at least you can pick your poision.
Wanna play dps ele? Amazing, all you need to do is to reroll.
Sure, there are gonna be people making all kind of builds and then act like it totally works somewhere below the amber division, but in reality if ele is not getting some serious buffs, we’ll be seeing much less of the class, especially in tournaments and high lvl pvp. It’s how it works, there will be better classes to play and if playing ele is hurting your team, you probably should reroll. Just like warriors had to.
Well, I find the new amulets quite viable and even as an improvement. Why? because damage was greatly boosted and in some cases healing power! while keeping basically the same vitality (toughness is not as important imho while perma protection). this might not be enough to be the same bunker we used to be, but at least survibability wil be there while we deal our damge.
Toughness is not important when there will be reapers running around corrupting your precious protection? When thieves got damage buffs? Okay.
Re apply?
How are you gonna keep reapplying it with boon convert on AA and 10 sec corrupt boon?
Ele will be fine with out cele if …
…people stop trying to use the same builds they see today on metabattle and try to adapt and innovate.
I actually tried. I thought to myself (not really, but i gave it a shot), maybe we can run power builds now! Hell no, the damage ele does in pvp is completely pathetic, you die if anyone sneezes at you and if you wanna run more survability then you’ll be basically healing your enemies.
How about some hp ele? Yeah, try that without vit or toughness and we’ll see how long you’ll survive.
It comes down to the fact that the stats ele has are a complete joke. You wanna run support/bruiser build? Well, then you need exactly the stats on celestial amulet, that’s getting removed. You might try cleric, but it’s basically a suicide or Mender’s, but that’s completely the same, but you’ll be dying to different things. Hey, at least you can pick your poision.
Wanna play dps ele? Amazing, all you need to do is to reroll.
Sure, there are gonna be people making all kind of builds and then act like it totally works somewhere below the amber division, but in reality if ele is not getting some serious buffs, we’ll be seeing much less of the class, especially in tournaments and high lvl pvp. It’s how it works, there will be better classes to play and if playing ele is hurting your team, you probably should reroll. Just like warriors had to.
Well, I find the new amulets quite viable and even as an improvement. Why? because damage was greatly boosted and in some cases healing power! while keeping basically the same vitality (toughness is not as important imho while perma protection). this might not be enough to be the same bunker we used to be, but at least survibability wil be there while we deal our damge.
Toughness is not important when there will be reapers running around corrupting your precious protection? When thieves got damage buffs? Okay.
Re apply?
How are you gonna keep reapplying it with boon convert on AA and 10 sec corrupt boon?
Elemental shielding, hardy conduit … 10s cd is easy to overcome, … about AA… well.. they are auto attacks, if the necro will stick to spamming auto attacks just to keep you out of one boon every 3 attacks…. kinda give you time to fight back… even if the necro does for any weird reason… and happens to strip just protections out of the pletora of boons you should have … just heal yourself…. if you are just staring as this happen.
Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!
How about puting the missing stats somewhere else? I’d be ok with less vit/toughness if we had by default more power/healing power for instance. It always bugged me that all classes don’t have the same stat pool.
Lily Bertine [NG]/[GiRL]
Nerfentalist of Augury Rock
Nerfentalist of Augury Rock
boon corrupt will hurt warriors and the like more than eles
if you have only one or two important boons, it hurts more to lose them than if you have a billion boons that you continually reapply
It will be fine for low division matches, it’s gonna be extremely bad in higher tier matchups, since every meta build for ele in the last 2 years used celestial amulet. Every. Single. One. (and no, fresh air was never meta and doesn’t stand a chance to become meta since the damage it deals is just laughable, I mean even the phoenix + lightning flash combo does next to no damage). History repeating itself I guess.
Being invincible isn’t good game design.
Without cele amu main hand dagger won’t be playable in higher division (they don’t plan to change it). They also didn’t speak about WH which is probably our worst wapon.
Staff won’t be a solution since it’s motsly a support/CC wapon. So we’ve got scepter and focus, let’s hope those two will get nice buff or total REWORK of some useless skills.
If they don’t buff it enough ele will go back to trash as it was before cele. I’m currently trying some maraudeur fresh air tempest build, it’s nice but damages are so low compare to other classes. Air overload is very powerfull but we are so weak while overloading, any good thief can just burst us. I also can’t deal with daredevil and shatter mesmer cause they got more damage and survivability than me. Try to land dragon tooth or phoenix on a daredevil, if he’s good it’s nearly impossible without using blink.
Also, if anybody from anet read this: Please give us at least one nice elite skill… At the moment, they are all useless compare to other elite (reve, mesmer, DH, engi, …). A good offensive elite could do well with a fresh-air build.
I still don’t understand why anet is removing amu…
reminder not too long ago mesmer had one of their most powerful GM traits made BASELINE.
champion magus
previously rank 2 on old leaderboards
EG.secret.OG.NAVI.sorrychief
previously rank 2 on old leaderboards
EG.secret.OG.NAVI.sorrychief
which one was that?
Justification for the proposed change is celestial removal right? So… Why is 1050 Healing power + 560 vit, or 560 Healing+Vit with 1050 condi not enough to keep the bruiser role?
Sure you miss out on the toughness but based on how toughness scales is it that big a deal?
Don’t flame, I am only asking to understand.
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
(edited by Daishi.6027)
which one was that?
Probably shatter includes Mesmer. One of the more disgusting things Anet did.
Justification for the proposed change is celestial removal right? So… Why is 1050 Healing power + 560 vit, or 560 Healing+Vit with 1050 condi not enough to keep the bruiser role?
Sure you miss out on the toughness but based on how toughness scales is it that big a deal?
Don’t flame, I am only asking to understand.
With 0 toughness, even with perma-protection, you take too much damage for your vitality/healing power to be worth anything unless you can burst something down super-fast (doesn’t happen with all those passives/invulns/blocks/etc. in the game now).
With 0 vitality, you don’t have enough “body” to survive an initial condi-spike or burst spike, making your healing power/toughness irrelevant. You don’t need a TON of vitality, but 11K HP, even with prot and 560 extra toughness still gets killed with backstab burst combo in 1 go.
With 0 healing power, you do not have any sustain as an ele, so your vitality and toughness just mean you wind down to 0 rather quickly against bruisers such as scrappers, reapers, and druids.
You need a good deal of toughness and healing power, with at least enough vitality to get above 15K HP to have a chance at survival, especially when banging bodies in melee range.
All of this is predicated on playing a bruiser role – the only role ele can play. This is because ele’s main problem for viability is defense, and 90% of the defensive mechanics ele has are soft mitigation (protection + applying a bit of weakness) combined with healing to make that soft mitigation effective. A dps ele has far too few hard-mitigation mechanics (obsidian flesh, lightning flash onto high ground, arcane shield/mistform), all on long CD’s to compete with other burst builds, and even has fallen far behind in the damage department too. DPS ele gets farmed by any thief or mesmer who is patient enough to make you blow your super-long CD defenses (vs. their comparatively short CD’s) before just crapping all over you. Other dps builds also bring more to the team in terms of map control (mobility for thief, portal for mesmer, mobility for rev) while ele brings a bit of healing, cleanse, and soft-mitigation – all within a radius too small to utilize effectively on such a frail body.
(edited by BlackBeard.2873)
Bunker support aura ele will still be fine without cele amulet I think.
That build is quite a bit too strong anyway.
However dps ele builds without cele amulet will be in an even worse spot than before patch.
Unless they get compensated somehow.
Still hoping that the quality of life scepter modifcationS, are more than silly shatterstone change.
(edited by Yashuoa.9527)
Justification for the proposed change is celestial removal right? So… Why is 1050 Healing power + 560 vit, or 560 Healing+Vit with 1050 condi not enough to keep the bruiser role?
Sure you miss out on the toughness but based on how toughness scales is it that big a deal?
Don’t flame, I am only asking to understand.
With 0 toughness, even with perma-protection, you take too much damage for your vitality/healing power to be worth anything unless you can burst something down super-fast (doesn’t happen with all those passives/invulns/blocks/etc. in the game now).
With 0 vitality, you don’t have enough “body” to survive an initial condi-spike or burst spike, making your healing power/toughness irrelevant. You don’t need a TON of vitality, but 11K HP, even with prot and 560 extra toughness still gets killed with backstab burst combo in 1 go.
With 0 healing power, you do not have any sustain as an ele, so your vitality and toughness just mean you wind down to 0 rather quickly against bruisers such as scrappers, reapers, and druids.
You need a good deal of toughness and healing power, with at least enough vitality to get above 15K HP to have a chance at survival, especially when banging bodies in melee range.
All of this is predicated on playing a bruiser role – the only role ele can play. This is because ele’s main problem for viability is defense, and 90% of the defensive mechanics ele has are soft mitigation (protection + applying a bit of weakness) combined with healing to make that soft mitigation effective. A dps ele has far too few hard-mitigation mechanics (obsidian flesh, lightning flash onto high ground, arcane shield/mistform), all on long CD’s to compete with other burst builds, and even has fallen far behind in the damage department too. DPS ele gets farmed by any thief or mesmer who is patient enough to make you blow your super-long CD defenses (vs. their comparatively short CD’s) before just crapping all over you. Other dps builds also bring more to the team in terms of map control (mobility for thief, portal for mesmer, mobility for rev) while ele brings a bit of healing, cleanse, and soft-mitigation – all within a radius too small to utilize effectively on such a frail body.
Good write-up.