Elementalist - Attunement System

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Posted by: Xalerwons.1392

Xalerwons.1392

As someone who has an 80 or near cap of Thief, Warrior, Elementalist, Ranger, I think I can fairly claim that the Elementalist is the only profession whose unique mechanic (Initiative/Stealth, Burst, Attunement, Pet) actually hinders the power level of the profession itself.

Anyone else think that the current attunement system is really bad for the state of the class?

As I wrote here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Ementalist-are-very-very-Underpowered/first#post333033 I mentioned that the current attunement system necessarily forces Anet to balance the profession based on all available skills, all 20. Even though we’re not specced for all 20 via our traits.

My suggested fix was to only allow the usage of 2 elements in combat (sort of like other professions being stuck with their 2 weapon sets in combat.) In return, we gain weapon set swaps like every other profession.

For any given encounter, we can choose how much damage, support, control we want to be able to contribute. Instead of that amount being fixed for all Elementalists. Gives us fluidity and flexibility, something they remembered when they designed the Engineer profession but forgot by the time they Q&A’ed Eles.

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Posted by: Lifelike.5862

Lifelike.5862

I don’t like it. I’ve come to swap to water so I can heal when I lose HP, while rotating between fire and earth for damage. Being able to only choose 2 elements means I’d have to stick in fire or earth while keeping Water free for healing, which just isn’t as fun and would limit the way I play the class.

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Posted by: Xalerwons.1392

Xalerwons.1392

I don’t like it. I’ve come to swap to water so I can heal when I lose HP, while rotating between fire and earth for damage. Being able to only choose 2 elements means I’d have to stick in fire or earth while keeping Water free for healing, which just isn’t as fun and would limit the way I play the class.

You don’t need to swap between fire and earth for damage. You can swap between D/D or S/D and staff, and fully benefit from your trait choices.

Maybe I wasn’t clear. You can still switch which 2 of 4 attunements you want out of combat, just like weapon sets for other professions. You can select if you want to do mostly damage, mostly control, mostly support, or a mix of all 3. You can’t do that now without being kitten at the aspect you’re trying to maximize sans support.

It also means Anet can balance the profession accordingly, instead of noting that under ideal situations and cooldown and attunement management, you should have enough hp/s from 3 water skills, enough CC from earth skills, enough mobility from air, and just enough damage from fire to finish this encounter!

Right now, every Elementalist is forced to be a generalist. Or more specifically, a healing rain + aoe might dispenser.

I mean if that’s how you want to play, you could still do the same thing with Fire/Water with S/D PLUS Staff.

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Posted by: MiniAchilles.4617

MiniAchilles.4617

From D/D perspective I am a definitely not a fan of this idea, just dumb’s down my whole play style and I don’t see why you would want 2/4 attunement’s available in a fight, that doesn’t seem like a solution only another issue.

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Posted by: Strang.8170

Strang.8170

Ok,

We´ve yet to have a balance patch for ele after launch.
There´s plenty of elementalists that do just fine in pve and even in pvp
Many people are happy with how the ele playstyle is as it is now.

And still there´s some who outright demand complete redesign for whole class…..
very logical

Dr.Strang E – Nameless veterans (NV) – Gandara (EU)
[ ex- Piken Square (EU), ex- Aurora Glade (EU) ]

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Posted by: Rhyse.8179

Rhyse.8179

Attunements are the core of the class- if you havn’t mastered them, and know when to swap to what and how often, then the class will feel disjointed and weak. Almost as if you’re only playing 1/4 of a class. Hmmm.

“I care nothing for a festering industry that wantonly refuses to
provide a service that I’m willing to purchase.” – Fortuna.7259

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Posted by: delmarqo.5038

delmarqo.5038

I can see what you’re saying Xaler, but I don’t think attunement swapping is fundamentally flawed nor makes the class unbalanceable. They knew that going in, and have said that they right now are not focused on class balancing until a number of other things calm down.

Attunement switching to me is just another key press. I could wish for a WoW-style UI where all my accessible abilities are right there on the desktop and a mere #/ALT#/SHF# away, but that’d radically change the UI for the whole game and take away the context switching which I think is fundamental to the professions in general, and the skill/trait/situation choices specifically.

But then, I mostly PvE solo whether hunting, exploring or DEing. I can’t speak for any PvP or dungeons. Opinion of one and all that

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Posted by: TinyHowie.3946

TinyHowie.3946

I wish there is at least some kind of passive benefits while switching between elements. Like the virtues for Guardians.

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Posted by: ThiBash.5634

ThiBash.5634

To be quite honest, I prefer attunement swapping over weapon swapping. It’s not hindering me in the slightests, on the contrary. It’s helping me.

If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.

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Posted by: TinyHowie.3946

TinyHowie.3946

It’s like WoW warrior stance dance, I like it a lot.

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Posted by: delmarqo.5038

delmarqo.5038

I wish there is at least some kind of passive benefits while switching between elements. Like the virtues for Guardians.

Never played a Guardian, so need to ask this newb question: how does the virtues work for Guardians and how does it differ from the boons we can get from certain Traits when switching attunements (i.e., Arcane Power V)?

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Posted by: TinyHowie.3946

TinyHowie.3946

All three virtues have passive effects and active effects. The passives stay there all the time until you activated them. Once virtues on cd, you don’t gain passive benefits, but the activation could be very crucial and powerful when executed in time. They are the class skills just like attunements on elementalist skill bar.

They could be improved through traits just the same as elementalists attunements.

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Posted by: ekn.6572

ekn.6572

This is from the link you directed us to. I am adding comments to this because here is where you specify exactly why you think such a change is necessary.

They need to fix the attunement system. It FORCES Anet to balance the Elementalist around the fact that (s)he can cast any of the 20 weapon skills at any given time. So if half the weapon skills are support (more like 75% with staff), then she is forced to become a support.

Maybe in leveling all four of your 80s, you missed out on a key point of the game.
Weapons have general focuses. Sure, sometimes they deviate (Scepter is normally cond dmg-based, except for Guardians, Mesmer GS is ranged), but in general there tends to be a consistent theme in each weapon type.

For all four of the classes that can use the staff (Guardian, Ele, Mesmer, Necro), the staff serves as a support weapon. If you’re playing with a staff you will only be using it to its max potential as a support weapon. This is has nothing to do with Attunements though, and I’m very confused as to why you brought it up.

Also, 75%?
Of the 20 skills on staff, there are four exclusively party-support skills:
W1 (pretty much anyway), W3, W5, A4
And 3 more that are high-utility tools that can help the group (and your own safety):
W4, A3, E4

That’s more like 20%.
35% if you’re counting the other three mobility/control skills.

Neglecting support skills to focus on dps at any given significant period of time means you are not playing your class to its full potential.

ANY class that neglects support in the right situation to dps is not playing their class to its full potential. Some classes have more support than others. I hate to break it to you, but the Elementalist has some of the best. Not utilizing this support is just not playing the class correctly.
Also, a HUGE amount of our support comes from our dps. Using the plethora of combo fields and the many blast finishers available to us is probably where the majority of our support comes from.

I’m terribly sorry that you not only can drop a Ring of Fire to damage and burn a group of foes, but that you also should drop a Phoenix in it, damaging them further, granting you vigor, clearing a condition and giving any allies by the RoF 3 stacks of might. Being able to support your team is such a pain!

I don’t want to HAVE to play support to play my Elementalist to its max…

Are you under the impression that full support is the only way to go for an Ele?

If I choose not to use most of my support skills as an Elementalist, I’m hampering my party output by more than half.

I really doubt you’re more than doubling the party’s DPS. I also am really confused as to why you lay such an incredible weight to your own support as though it is a bad thing.

All other professions can contribute support for 4-5 seconds every minute, and they’ll last. We have to circle jerk around our damage spells’s cooldowns and fiddle with support spells in the mean time.

“Fiddle with support spells”? Do you just spam S-W1? How else do you spend such an inordinate amount of time playing “support” that you feel the need to complain about it?

I’d much prefer only being able to use 2 attunements in any given combat period (as every class is stuck with their current 2 weapon sets in combat), but allowed a weapon swap.

You want to cut a major strength (versatility) of the Elementalist in half just because you don’t want to feel pressured into using another major strength (support) of the profession? I really don’t understand this at all.

The Elementalist is a support-heavy profession. I know I’m going to get a “we were told every class could perform every role!”-That doesn’t mean that some classes won’t bring more conditions, more buffs, more heals, more dps, or more survivability than others.

Honestly, after reading all of your complaints, it is apparent that the Elementalist just isn’t the profession for you.

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Posted by: Rhyse.8179

Rhyse.8179

I wish there is at least some kind of passive benefits while switching between elements. Like the virtues for Guardians.

15 points in arcane, 5 points in each element (or just the ones you want), and you have exactly that.

“I care nothing for a festering industry that wantonly refuses to
provide a service that I’m willing to purchase.” – Fortuna.7259

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Posted by: TinyHowie.3946

TinyHowie.3946

15 points in arcane, 5 points in each element (or just the ones you want), and you have exactly that.

A guardian doesn’t need to spec for it, it’s a feature. But ok I’ll take a look into your build and see if I could find my own style in there.

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Posted by: Rhyse.8179

Rhyse.8179

It won’t be quite like guardian, since it’s only triggered when you swap attunements, but combine it with the t1 Arcana trait that gives you boons when you switch and attune-hopping becomes a solid way to maintain self-buffs.

“I care nothing for a festering industry that wantonly refuses to
provide a service that I’m willing to purchase.” – Fortuna.7259

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Posted by: brogarn.8723

brogarn.8723

I don’t know how those of you who are good with this class keep track of cool downs on 4 different sets of 5 abilities, along with what they do, how to use them, when they can be used, and what to do if they can’t. It’s juggling with different shaped and weighted objects all falling at different speeds. And that’s just keeping track of what you’re doing. Never mind also trying to track what other players or mobs or both are doing. Boggles the mind.

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Posted by: nifty.2049

nifty.2049

I don’t know how those of you who are good with this class keep track of cool downs on 4 different sets of 5 abilities, along with what they do, how to use them, when they can be used, and what to do if they can’t. It’s juggling with different shaped and weighted objects all falling at different speeds. And that’s just keeping track of what you’re doing. Never mind also trying to track what other players or mobs or both are doing. Boggles the mind.

Brogarn, it’s mostly practice. Really, when you start unlocking the abilities when you first create your elementalist, that’s when you should be getting the feel for each skill. If you were like me though, you grinded through that on each weapon as fast as you could and didn’t really learn anything. Oops. Basically what happened to me is I just played in Air with S/D and slogged through things. If I got in trouble, I’d switch to water for a heal. I was very inefficient, and frankly, I stunk at even plain ol’ PvE.

So I just started paying attention to every skill on every attunement on S/D and looked for synergies. I started paying attention to this forum (not the QQ, but for the tips and tricks.) More importantly, I started practicing. Not just doing hearts or events, but finding some quick critter spawns out in the woods and practicing skill rotations on them. I’m lvl 66 and I still do that sometimes. Last night was practicing might stacks against Ettins that can interrupt and trying to get as much might stacked as possible.

Eventually, you will get a feel for it. I still don’t have it perfect. I’ll hit an attunement before it’s refreshed sometimes. I’ll go into the wrong attunement. I’ll forget to target phoenix on the ground somewhere before hitting another skill (I did that a LOT last night in the might stacking practice!)

It’s an absolute blast (pun semi-intended) to do the attunement dance. I prefer S/D, but I love watching videos of D/D ele’s hopping all over the place doing their version of the dance. I don’t even want to go level my alts (I have two alts, both… level 1) because of the fun of the attunement dance.

On the original topic, don’t dare take away my 4 attunements in combat. It’s the best part of the class in my opinion.

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Posted by: delmarqo.5038

delmarqo.5038

My experience is similar to nifty. I kinda backed by accident into the stacking Mights from the S/D skills alone. And then there was some post here about Elemental Attunement that made me take a new look at the Trait. Once you correlate each attunement to their primary benefit in the Traits window, then it’s just a question of how fast you can hit buttons

I’m still learning it, and for now I’m watching icons much more closely than I am watching the battle on screen. But in a way, it reminds me of the EQ1 Bard class song twisting. As long as you have the sequence down right, and don’t get hit with lag spikes, it becomes intuitive.

But, and this is important, it’ll never work exactly the same way twice in a row. This is predominantly because the cooldown timers are all different, but also because each encounter might have different variables, compelling you to switch weaponsets, switch Traits, switch skills.

So I recommend focusing on just one playstyle for now. If you can get down combos and stacks in solo PvE by using a rotation between Air and Fire skills, then it’s easy to add in Air to Fire to Earth, and then it’s easier to figure out how to do similar with a Staff in DEs/Reknowns. And so on.

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Posted by: Korath.7402

Korath.7402

My opinion is that I really like the core attunement mechanic and I don’t think it needs changing. I think the OPs suggestions, while well-intentioned, would not work out very well if implemented.

If I were ANet, my priorities for fine tuning the elementalist profession would be:

1) Make downed state #2 an interrupt so we can avoid stomps like every other class
2) Fix the many many bugged abilities and traits
3) Rework the traits in general to give better options, more synergy, and to generally work better with the core attunement mechanic instead of against it.

Then we can see where we’re at and reassess.

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Posted by: Fantom.9217

Fantom.9217

My bunker Elementalist is hilariously awesome in PVP. I have no problems with the attunement system.

I die about once per match, and only when 3+ people get on me. I can hold a point for forever against 1-2. Give me an ally and we will clear out any number of enemies and I’ll get credit for all the kills.

I get plenty of glory for taking points, defending them, and tagging enemies.

Overally, Elementalist is fine in PVP assuming that you are playing a defensive-based spec that holds objectives (hey look that’s how you win at PVP) and spams AOE.

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Posted by: Shockwave.1230

Shockwave.1230

Not a fan of the suggestion in the OP. I enjoy the Attunement System. I see no issue with the system other than being locked into one range, which can be compensated for by adjusting skills.

The system is not an “issue”, the problems people are seeing are 1) ele’s have the lowest health and lowest armor without compensation in the effectiveness of their skills, 2) ele’s have very high impact skill bugs, 3) ele’s are a challenging class to play effectively due to high value effects being split among the four attunements.

Are ele’s hard to play? Yes, they are challenging to play compared to other classes.

Are ele’s effective in PvE? Yes, they are effective. Especially in the areas of Mobility, AoE, and CC.

Are ele’s effective in PvP? Yes, but compared to the easy of use other professions provide ele’s fall short because they are a challenging profession to play.

Do ele’s need Buffs? Maybe, but first they need bug fixes to see how effective they are when bug free. ArenaNet could also tone down/nerf the effectiveness of other easy to use mechanics (Heartseeker, Pistol Whip, Kill Shot, etc.) of other professions to bring them in line with the elementalist.

Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)

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Posted by: Morelia.6835

Morelia.6835

Just because one hasn’t specced into an attunement doesn’t make it useless.

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Posted by: Ryld.1340

Ryld.1340

My suggested fix was to only allow the usage of 2 elements in combat (sort of like other professions being stuck with their 2 weapon sets in combat.) In return, we gain weapon set swaps like every other profession.

No Sir, I don’t like it.