Elementalist Utilities

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Posted by: P Fun Daddy.1208

P Fun Daddy.1208

So I’ve been thinking about what makes cantrips so much stronger than just about everything else, and the is what I’ve come up with.

Firstly, cantrip traits are not competing with strong grandmaster skills.
With the new patch, a large number of our traits got compiled into bundles, and for the most part this is a good thing. Cantrips, however, remained at master and adept tier while both recharge traits for Arcane and Glyphs were moved up to Grandmaster in the Arcane and Earth lines respectively.
In addition to this, the traits themselves are placed nicely in relevant lines (recovery in water, offense in fire) while the same cannot be said at all for Inscription and Conjurer (Air line for a slow-cast long-term effects? Seems legit). Frankly speaking Conjurer belongs in Arcane and nowhere else until they give it a more elementally aligned effect (no, getting an aura every time an uncommon condition is fulfilled does not count).
This is terrible.
Written in Stone is especially bad for this, mostly because the Earth line as a whole is mediocre. Elemental Surge competes with Evasive Arcana, which sucks, but the traitline as a whole is still nice.
The exception to this is Conjurer and Inscription, but Conjurer sucks (though it does give you fire auras if you pick it up yourself, if I remember correctly) and Inscription is similarly bad. Conjurer also gives you a meaningless boost to charges which assumes you will be basically just autoing for like ten seconds, with no CDR. Yeah.

Secondly, cantrips have trait synergy, and within the same line at that.
Cleansing Water and Soothing Disruption. It’s pretty cool.
No other type has that. Conjurer is on the verge of one, but gaining two stacks of might and a slightly longer fire aura is hardly synergy if that requires you to both cast your conjure and then pick up your second weapon, which hardly ever happens. Flame Axe would be the only one that even remotely has synergy there.

Thirdly, cantrips are nearly universally useful, but all other types have horribly weak skills in the set.
Arcane actually has a pretty good set with Arcane Brilliance, Wave and Shield, all of which are solid skills, but Arcane Power and Blast are weaksauce. The only time Arcane Power is even moderately useful is against a single target (the guaranteed crits are shared among all targets, so a single fireball on a mesmer with illusions neaby could consume four of your five charges) if you have Elemental Surge and are not in Fire. Arcane Blast has exactly zero utility. Missing an elite, too.
Glyphs have Glyph of Storms. Glyph of Elementals is okay simply because it is the only elite which doesn’t involve losing all of our skills. The rest basically don’t exist, because they are useless to the point of not having any measurable impact, for completely obvious reasons (GoEP is entirely random and doesn’t do much, GoLE can basically be ignored by any opponent, GoR actually just sucks in pretty much every situation ever. Mist Form is better at reviving than GoR is). Glyph of Harmony is okay and nothing else.
Conjures have Fiery Greatsword, which is at this point essentially an OOC weapon, and Frost Bow, which is useful in dungeons or against distracted targets. Lightning Hammer is just weaksauce in PvP and WvW, and close in PvE, Fire Axe is just weak and doesn’t give you anything special, and Earth Shield gives you a bunch of cool toys which are too clunky to use.
Pretty much all the signets are just bad, with nearly useless passives and actives (And bad cooldowns too). No elite either.
On the other hand you have cantrips, which give you your only source of stability outside of one 2s in Earth, are all instant cast outside of Ether Renewal and Tornado, have an instant damaging teleport, our only utility invulnerability, and our only useful non-trait cleanse, and as of this patch now also have a heal and an elite. They are all worth considering even if you have no traits invested in them or even if you invested in other trait types.

So yeah, Anet get on this pls.

TL;DR: Cantrips have good trait synergy and placement, and are universally useful. Glyphs, Conjures, Arcana, and Signets have none of these, and lack a full set of useful skills.

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Posted by: SchmendrickTheMagician.8247

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247

From a PVP/WVW standpoint:

Glyphs have a pretty great trait, but most glyphs are pretty bad and it seems strange that the trait is in the air line (the crit/burst line) when glyphs are mostly about conditions. Heal glyph is pretty good, especially traited, GoEP has it’s use for condition builds, but storms has way too long of a cooldown and the lesser elementals are useless basically. Plus if you want the protection eles thoroughly need from their utilities you’ll have to cast them in earth limiting their uses even further.

Conjures have sometimes seen use, at least a single conjure untraited. The trait for them is pretty bad. I feel that Earth Shield would be close to amazing in PVP if only it was an instant cast, and maybe a stunbreaker.

Signets themselves are pretty bad besides the heal one, and while they do offer conditions outside of specific attunements – something needed for a condi build – they pretty much lost all claim to viability now that they can’t give protection through auras anymore. I can kinda understand why they removed auras on signets (with fire line we have HUGE fire aura uptime already) but maybe Written in Stone could give straight up protection on signet use?

Arcane skills are actually pretty good, all of them. The problem is that they are all about burst, yet their trait is about conditions, and the conditions besides immobilize are pretty weak too.

I feel that a tiny change could make both glyphs and arcane skills options for pvp:

Switch the glyph and arcane trait functions: Glyphs should cast conditions upon use, and Arcanes should give boons upon use, all depending on attunement like now.

Last of the Red Hot Swamis

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Posted by: Linnael.1069

Linnael.1069

Conjures need better effects on activation. Given how core the ele’s weapon skills are to its effectiveness, conjures should be good for summoning, using the big hard hitting skills, and then dropping. It sort of fits that niche already by giving you two, but could obviously use a lot more work.

Put some cleanses/stunbreak options onto the conjure activations given how much utility you lose while holding one. Earth shield breaks stuns and is instant cast. Ice bow spawns with a cleansing wave. The lighting bolt that spawns the lightning hammer has a 180 radius daze and damage attatched to it. Flame axe spawns a ring of fire. FGS can be reactivated to melt the ground, creating a lava pool that you can dive into, shadowstepping you to the second sword you spawned. Reduce conjure CDs to 45 seconds for all of them besides the FGS.

Stormbluff Isle – Syliara
Elementalist – Necromancer – Warrior

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Posted by: Laraley.7695

Laraley.7695

I have another reason why no other utilities are used.

Because they freaking sucks.

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Posted by: Navzar.2938

Navzar.2938

We could always start churning out idea* to make other utilities worthwhile.
*ideas maybe worthless or way overdone.

Signets-
1. Introduce an elite signet
2. Add/modify a trait to affect signets. Even if earths embrace doesn’t come back, something 5stacks of vuln for 10 seconds would be good. Piercing shards could be a decent place to add this.
3. Maybe change signet of air passive since we already have so much swiftness

Glyphs-
1. Change glyph of elemental power into a quickness skill
2. Increase health of summoned elementals?
3. Make revival skills work on defeated players

Conjures-
0. If anet doesn’t want people to use a skill and drop it, they need to buff the weak skills.
1. Frost bow- Buff frost volley damage. Give the autoattack huge damage/velocity buffs. Add a heal to frost fan?
2. Lightning hammer- Skill 4 needs to be much more reliable, and maybe cast faster. Make skill 3 a knock down?
3. Earth shield- stun breaker. Buff the auto a bit? (I don’t use it so idk)
4. Flame axe- Buff AA’s might to 10sec. Buff both fire field durations to 6sec (also unsure about this one)
5. Make all conjures 1/4sec cast
X. Another odd idea would be to add more charges and then have skills cost various amounts based on how strong they are. That would help make autoattacks feel like less like a waste of charges.

(edited by Navzar.2938)

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Posted by: oZii.2864

oZii.2864

It’s really your 3rd statement which is why Ele’s take cantrips. Across multiple classes there maybe 1 specific semi-niche utility slotted. Usually the rest that are slotted are the most flexible/adaptable, and utilities are suppose to be just that; the more pigeonholed a utility feels the less likely people are to take it.

Not many classes seemed to have there utilies changed much in the last patch it is more traits that may have made them more useful like the new Necro signet trait.

Ele signets need a full rework imo I would say that conjurers are useless, but that would be a personal bias since I rarely have a need for them in my primary game mode. I know that have always had a place in PvE I think all the conjurers have been meta at one point besides the shield we are kind of stuck with them in PvP/WvW they are more niche there and usually not worth multiple slots.

I think we will see another balance pass anyway before or close to HOTs utilities barely got touched which is kind of unusual given such a large balance pass.

[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}

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Posted by: Alekt.5803

Alekt.5803

Conjures have sometimes seen use, at least a single conjure untraited. The trait for them is pretty bad. I feel that Earth Shield would be close to amazing in PVP if only it was an instant cast, and maybe a stunbreaker.

[sPvP Point of view]
Of course. The Conjurer Trait serves no purpose right now. The way things works, conjures don’t actually need a trait to support them because a functional build should only plan on using one conjured weapon (not including Fiery Greatsword). Instead, the trait is thought with the promise that:
1-Conjures are casted sparingly.
2-The second Conjure is meant to be used by an allie.
3-Additional charges are useful.

From that point of view, there is no surprise: Conjurer Trait is awful. Promises 1,2 and 3 are all wrong.
The truth:
1- Conjures must be used carefully, and one in the utility bar at a time.
2-The second Conjured weapon will be used by the elementalist twice 95% of the time.
3- Additional charges are not helpful. Fifteen stacks are more than enough to do a complete rotation with the weapon (Except for the Lightning Rod bug which uses an extra charge at every interrupts)

Alerie Despins

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Posted by: Ryld.1340

Ryld.1340

I want Utilities that are group friendly. Aside from Blindstorm, Conjures (which no-one picks up because it takes away their weapon), and a terrible Rez Glyph, we don’t have any group skills with our utilities. I’d like to have Wells or Banners put in as Wards. Or even shouts. Or something!

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Posted by: OneKlicKill.4285

OneKlicKill.4285

Conjures to work like kits but have a CD upon leaving. Having a 1 slot conjure would be viable. Then the trait would give an on equip effect or bonus while wielding (doubling stat bonus or individually buffing 1-2 skills in each weapon) Then when you unequip the conjure you drop the copy for your allies.

Now Glyphs, the best way to make these viable is while channeling you gain an effect. * Earth: invariability

  • Water: Resistance
  • Fire Aoe might buffing (think guardian staff 4) or maybe retaliation in replacement of might
  • Air: haste (and 2s after)

This would give them defensive and offensive usage that isnt tied to condition damage or power, allowing for both builds to make use of them.

Now changing the skills themselves to actually make them worth taking is another thing entirely:

  • Lesser and Greater elemental Changed to Elemental Spirit: They now create a buff on you for the summon duration based on the attune they were generated in. All their autos become range projectiles spawning off you. They no longer have an HP bar. Active still exists and are generated around you. They both give you attribute adjustment based on the element pwr/per/vit/tough while active. Reduce duration from 60-30. Keep CDs
  • Renewal, Leave as is as nearly all classes have one of these
  • Storms, Leave as is, trait buff makes it viable
  • Harmony, Leave as is trait buff makes it viable

Arcane are good, but don’t bring reliable utility and their traits don’t make sense with burst.
Elemental Surge – Upon casting an arcane spell your ferocity is increased by 100 for 5 seconds (Stacks in intensity) If opponent is under the effects of _ you steal the boon and deal additional damage.

  • Wave steals Prot
  • Shield blast steals Stability
  • Crits from power steal 1 might stack per hit
  • Blast steals ferocity
  • Brilliance steals regen

Swap Elemental surge with final shielding.
Now buff final shielding

  • Arcane abilites now remove 2 conditions on use and grant fury, Gain Arcane shield as usual.
  • It can now compete with EA and remove the need for going into water (giving a condi clense method to non water buids. Congrats arcane is now viable

Signets

  • Air Passive: Move speed 25% Precision 180
  • Fire Passive: 180 Condition Damage.
  • Water Passive: Cure a condition every 10 seconds Vitality 180
  • Earth Passive: Toughness 180 Reduce Incoming stun and daze duration by 25%
  • Healing: As is
  • Written in stone: Passives are doubled, lose half on cast.

Secondary signet trait to be added:
Active effects of signets now become aoe 300 around the target, No target will generate this aoe around yourself.

From here the rest of the ele and other things needs to be fixed

  • Weapons – Every weapon is a hybrid weapon this is why celestial is “OP” on us and why we cant use anything else. we need weapons that can bring sole condi or sole damage and still be effective without making 2/4 atun borderline useless. unfortuantly I dont think this is something that can be changed with the current weapons. I think (if they make kittening sword) it should be a hybrid (wait what?) Okay the first trait in the new tree is a power, hybrid, or condi trait. It adjusts the scaling on the condis and direct damage on the new weapon set to allow for all 3 types of play.
  • Amulets – Need a gem slot or more customization, as ele we are forced into taking at-least vit or toughness, and realistically need both. that doesn’t leave us with options at all.
  • Many more things but im done typing right now
Please skill/trait split and give control to the PvP team. Karl is fucking killing us

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Posted by: TeuthidPurveyor.1970

TeuthidPurveyor.1970

A bunch of people in this thread don’t know what Conjurer does. It gives you a fire aura when you summon the first weapon, and it gives you another when if you pick up your own second weapon. I’m not saying it’s a good trait (in PVP, which seems to be the focus, it’s still garbage), but it’s much better than you seem to realize.

Also, extra charges can be useful in PvE.

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Posted by: P Fun Daddy.1208

P Fun Daddy.1208

A bunch of people in this thread don’t know what Conjurer does. It gives you a fire aura when you summon the first weapon, and it gives you another when if you pick up your own second weapon. I’m not saying it’s a good trait (in PVP, which seems to be the focus, it’s still garbage), but it’s much better than you seem to realize.

Also, extra charges can be useful in PvE.

It doesn’t give you a fire aura when you summon the first, only when you (or anyone else) picks up the bundle, if I remember correctly from the one time I tested it before deeming it trash.

I’m pretty sure the extra charges are only useful on Ice Bow in AC, if at all (even then if you’re staggering them correctly you don’t need to use any other skills).

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Posted by: Laraley.7695

Laraley.7695

A bunch of people in this thread don’t know what Conjurer does. It gives you a fire aura when you summon the first weapon, and it gives you another when if you pick up your own second weapon. I’m not saying it’s a good trait (in PVP, which seems to be the focus, it’s still garbage), but it’s much better than you seem to realize.

Also, extra charges can be useful in PvE.

It doesn’t give you a fire aura when you summon the first, only when you (or anyone else) picks up the bundle, if I remember correctly from the one time I tested it before deeming it trash.

I’m pretty sure the extra charges are only useful on Ice Bow in AC, if at all (even then if you’re staggering them correctly you don’t need to use any other skills).

I tested it and it does give you a fire aura when you summon the first and when you pick up the second.

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Posted by: P Fun Daddy.1208

P Fun Daddy.1208

A bunch of people in this thread don’t know what Conjurer does. It gives you a fire aura when you summon the first weapon, and it gives you another when if you pick up your own second weapon. I’m not saying it’s a good trait (in PVP, which seems to be the focus, it’s still garbage), but it’s much better than you seem to realize.

Also, extra charges can be useful in PvE.

It doesn’t give you a fire aura when you summon the first, only when you (or anyone else) picks up the bundle, if I remember correctly from the one time I tested it before deeming it trash.

I’m pretty sure the extra charges are only useful on Ice Bow in AC, if at all (even then if you’re staggering them correctly you don’t need to use any other skills).

I tested it and it does give you a fire aura when you summon the first and when you pick up the second.

Better than I thought, then.
But still not what conjures need to be good.