Elementalist downed lacking an "interrupt" PVP
If you win a fight with someone, but it was a close engagement… you lose…
They’ll just down you with their stupid downed state damage and since every single other class’ downed state is better they will beat you.
Feels fantastic.
2 is supposed to immobilize, so I suppose that you are supposed to lead with this to prevent them from getting into range. It is a huge weakness in the class for pvp.
It would be better if it was an AoE interrupt in a small circle on the inital target, so that there was a chance that it might trip up 1 – 2 stompers long enough for 3 to proc.
The whole downed state needs a reworking. Sadly Anet hasn’t even confirmed that they are going to do anything about it.
I can down people all day in WvW. But I can rarely finish anyone.
It’s awesome dropping all your spells on a downed Warrior, trying to finish them off with damage. Then just see them hop up and run off.
Good times.
And yeah, our downed state spells suck. “Might” not be so terrible if our 3 would come off cooldown before someone slams a stake in us.
It’s even worse for PvE. Vapor Form basically does nothing, as the enemies’ AI chases you down, and then the immobilize is pretty much pointless. In fact, immobilize seems to be pointless in any situation for PvE: if an elementalist dies, it’s mostly because it was within the melee range of a mob, or against ranged foes. There’s no one that must get close to you, to stomp you out.
“Might” not be so terrible if our 3 would come off cooldown before someone slams a stake in us.
So much this. I was shocked to enter sPVP and see a 7s CD for the 3 skill. I started asking around if it’s the same for everyone when I saw every other class zipping around within a second of being downed.
As to the point about 2 meant to keep people at range, that’s pretty useless if a) they’re ranged and b) you’re melee anyway. It really does need to be reworked because I tend to just sit on my butt waiting for them to finish me if I’m downed; it’s that pointless.
I can’t stand narrowly winning a fight only to be put into downed state and instantly killed because vapor form is on a such a long cooldown to start with. I think vapor form should start with a 5 second cooldown (and then go on cooldown for 20 seconds) so you at least have a chance to escape and make use of churning earth.
Playing as an elementalist really makes me hate the downstate. Maybe I’m just jealous or it’s a case of the “grass is greener” but it seems like every class has a pvp interrupt of some kind. Only hunters feel our pain.
“Please find my dear friends… Dead or Alive” -redmakoto
I’d really love a reply from ArenaNet here. Ele downed state at the moment is atrocious, and the top reason I stopped playing my Ele in pvp. Every other profession has a fighting chance (some more, some less) when downed, every profession but Ele.
They either have knockbacks, stealths, teleports, fear, interrupt, etc. My Engineer even has a single target knockdown and an aoe knockback.
Ele downed 2 needs to knock down or back and interrupt stomps, and vapor form if it needs to stay needs to be available as soon as your downed.
Ele needs some serious buffs overall but I feel downed state is the worst thing about ele in pvp right now.
How about this, Just remove downed state, I win 1v2’s and 1v3’s and can’t finish due to it.
When you die in pvp you should actually die.
Fuzion
Necro – Team U S A [USA]
Necro – Team U S A [USA]
It’s not nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be, we definitely don’t have it that bad. I agree that 1-2s could come off the cooldown for Vapor Form, at least in sPvP, or maybe bring up the cooldown on the thief/mesmer skills a bit. But when you compare it to some of the other professions, Elementalists are doing alright in the downed state:
Warrior: The hammer throw can be blocked/avoided through many means. And, if you’re in a “downed battle” where both of you are downed, you will win 100% of the time, fight until they burn Vengence, then Vapor Form away, use the immobilize for a second or two, they don’t survive long enough to finish the execute animation. Keep in mind, you can dodge while using vapor form to cover more distance.
Guardian/Necromancer: The knockback/fear can both be avoided/prevented, I’ve been running with a focus, so I usually save my Obsidian Flesh to make executes a lot easier, but once they use their skill, it’s over.
Ranger: They don’t have an interrupt/disjoint at all.
Engineer: Their knockback is on the same cooldown as Vapor Form, and has far less utility in the way of staying alive.
Thief is a tad ridiculous, they have two skills that can disrupt the process, and the first is on a fairly short cooldown, similar case for the Mesmer. If you’re comparing Elementalist to these two professions, obviously it’s going to seem underpowered as far as downed state survivability goes. They’re both designed around trickery/stealth, so it makes sense. I’d definitely argue for changes to these before I argue for changes to the Elementalist.
It’s not nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be, we definitely don’t have it that bad.
Yes we DO have it that bad.
Warrior: The hammer throw can be blocked/avoided through many means.
Every single ability in the game can be blocked/avoided so that argument is simply futile. Hammer throw interrupts stomping which is the one thing you NEED to be able to do when downed. Also, vengeance is awesome I don’t know you you can even compare it to vapor form.
Guardian/Necromancer: The knockback/fear can both be avoided/prevented, I’ve been running with a focus, so I usually save my Obsidian Flesh to make executes a lot easier, but once they use their skill, it’s over.
Again the useless “oh it can be avoided” argument.
Ranger: They don’t have an interrupt/disjoint at all.
They have a daze which interrupts stomping, even if just very briefly.
Engineer: Their knockback is on the same cooldown as Vapor Form, and has far less utility in the way of staying alive.
Engineers have probably the best downed state after mesmers in the game. You simply don’t seem to know what you’re talking about. Engineer downed 2 knocks down, and you can time it you you knock down the first stomp attempt with #2, then blast them back with #3 when they try to do a second stomp.
It’s even worse for PvE. Vapor Form basically does nothing, as the enemies’ AI chases you down, and then the immobilize is pretty much pointless. In fact, immobilize seems to be pointless in any situation for PvE: if an elementalist dies, it’s mostly because it was within the melee range of a mob, or against ranged foes. There’s no one that must get close to you, to stomp you out.
Vapor form is certainly not underpowered in PvE if you use it right. Basically, each use of vapor form sets you at a specific percentage of your life bar, decreasing with each use. The amount is the same regardless of what your health was at when you used vapor form, so use it smartly:
1. Downed: 2/3 health
2. Spam #1 until health bar almost runs out.
3. Vapor form —> 1/3 health
4. Repeat 2.
5. Vapor form —> 1/6 health
5. Spam until dead, because the third vapor form will leave you at 0 health anyway.
You don’t want to vapor form as soon as it comes off CD. You want to wait until the last possible moment to get the most value out of the health reset.
Additionally, I can think of two or three times where vapor form allowed me to fall off a cliff into the water, thus preventing the mobs chasing me to reach me. If you know you’re going down, try to find a spot where its easy to escape from if at all possible.
I would like nothing more than for the downed state of all classes to be either removed completely or be voided of any interrupt skills, in PVP at least. It’s simply not fun to have to kill a person twice.
I never said i hated downed state its actually a pretty good idea
also the vapor form is a very good skill nothing bad there
the only problem is not have 1 intterupt in the 1 and 2 skills just like all other professions
and removing all interupts wont be a bad idea either
One of the many reasons why I always use my thief in pvp instead of my main (ele).
If my thief is downed:
1. I have a decent #1 Skill to attack and hope I kill someone so I rally.
2. If the enemy is trying to stomp me I can use skill #2 to simply teleport somewhere else where there might be allies to help me back up or where the enemy might not see me or lose interest and go somewhere he is needed urgently.
3. Right before they finish the stomping animation I can pop skill #3 and go invisible making their stomp miss and laugh on their faces and hope again that an ally happens to pass by or that they go to capture/defend some place.
On my ele….the #1 attack is lame, skill number 2 is useless if the enemy killed u in melee and skill #3 takes centuries to come out of cooldown so basically downed=dead
I think all escape mechanism or #3 skills, should be brought in line with one another so that they require help of an additional team mate to knockdown/stun/disable the stomping player to be effective.
By effective I mean be able to be cast.
e.g. 1-2 seconds longer than stomp cast-time.
another thing where the elem is the worst among the classes? (hp, defensse, downed) nothing new really im used to it
The ele downed state is really lacking.
1 is ok in terms of damage, 2 is just bad. It damage is low, and the immobilize doesn’t do anything at all in most battles. 3 rallies you for 3 seconds, which sound cool, but actually is worse than most people believe.
3 rallies you, and after 3 seconds puts you back into downed state. Thats why you get health back after you used that ability. So, what happens when you get downed?
First thing, you downed state counter is increased by one (seen in the lower left corner of your health bubble). This counter will then determine how much health you will have at the beginning of the downed state. Like 1/2 when you just got downed the first time, and then less and less health which each consecutive down. Since 3 does rally and then down you again, it will increase said counter by 1, leaving you with less initial health after each usage.
Also as I said before, your initial health is determined by your downed state counter. That can help, if you were almost dead, press 3 and get back to ~40% health after being downed again. It sadly also works in the opposite direction. An ally, or 4 got you to 90% and you are close to rally, but you won’t make it because an enemy would finish you before you could rally? Press 3, and oh my god, you just lost 50-80% of your progress, because you will rally and get downed again…
I reported this behavior back in one of the BWEs, sadly it wasn’t fixed.
And yes, Ele is the by far worse profession when downed.
One advantage to our downed state is that if you’re in a one on one fight, and it comes so close that BOTH of you get downed, you will almost always outlast the other class as long as you interrupt his heal. This is because our vapor form heals us far more than any other class’s down skill, so as long as the guy doesn’t have a friend come to finish you off, eventually your opponent will bleed out and you’ll rally.
Of course this is a very sad, sad consolation for our pretty bad downed state.