Guild Wars 2

The dervish is a new elite specialization idea for the elementalist. Dervishes are nomadic priests, devoted to watching over the land, communing with the earth and the wind to help the common folk with their farms and livestock. Found mostly across Elona, unlike common elementalists dervishes don’t seek to control the elements, but to serve them.

Aside from classic elementalist weapons, dervishes wield a scythe (new two-handed weapon), slashing their enemies like an unstoppable whirlwind of elemental fury. What might look like an inferior weapon in hands of a soldier turns into a weapon of destruction under their control. Dervishes imbue their scythes with elemental powers, spinning them at high speeds. The momentum can then be used to reflect enemy attacks, leap at targets and crush them, or throw the scythe as a boomerang, reaping across any enemies in its path.

Dervishes travel far and wide to pray and meditate, communing with the different elemental powers of the land. They learn the way of balance, and repeat different mantras to strengthen their connection to the elements.

The final step in the journey of the dervish is the pact with the mystic djinn, sentient elementals bound to the heart of the land. Once a dervish has proven his faith after a life of dedication, he will be allowed to face the challenges of the djinn. Only the most devout emerge victorious and are shown the path to the ultimate dervish ability: The transformation into a djinn itself. This Djinn Form requires a new resource, called Faith, represented by a resource bar in the UI. Faith grows by engaging enemies in combat and by using mantras. Each element has a transformation, with its own skills and secondary health bar, specializing in different roles.

Dervish

• New weapon: Scythe (2H)
• New utilities: Mantras
• New mechanic: Djinn Form

Many dervishes joined the Order of the Sunspears in battle against now lich emperor Palawa Joko, two hundred years ago. After the war was lost, the lich took his revenge and hunted down the remaining dervishes, no matter their previous allegiances. The survivors fled east, to the mountains. With the Six Human Gods all but gone, they reverted back to the wilderness, praying to the elements themselves. Traditionally, dervish knowledge was passed down from masters to pupils. The purge made no distinctions, and many ancient secrets and traditions were lost forever. This led the survivors to establish the Dervish Order, to safeguard what remained of their arts, now open to common folk and other races alike.

Nowadays, the order is one of the strongest rebel groups of Elona, smuggling food and other resources to those under the yoke of the lich emperor. Kralkatorrik’s ascent has defiled the land, but the dervishes don’t forget. Some day, both the branded and the awakened will be defeated, and the natural balance will be restored.

As much as I’d love to see the Dervish return, I do not think it is a right specialty to Elementalist. At this point it feels more suitable for Guardian, since they have the bit of endurance we’ve seen Dervishes had back on the first Guild Wars, and the supportive aspect also suites better.

The fact that the Elementalist already has a Tempest as his/her specialty, which pretty much focuses on healing and supporting team-mates, it already drives it off from the typical Elementalist spectrum. Of course, in Guild Wars 2 each an every class has to be able to handle every three corners of the triangle (dps, tank and support), so that kind of covers it.

I’d be more happy to see Elementalist turned into a glass-cannon with something like, let’s call it Sorceress/Sorcerer, or a Shaman (the elemental side of the supportive Druid). This is of course, if we’ll ever see the second specialty for the current classes, which I hope we do at some point!

This doesn’t sound very elementally, and I don’t see why they would add scythes as a weapon when staves already fill that role for Necros, Revenants, and Thieves.

Really this just seems like a better fit for Necros or Revenants anyway, with a “Djinn Shroud” or “Djinn Legend.”

Djinn are elemental beings, so they fit much better with elementalist than necromancer. With regards to revenants… there are no djinn I can think of that have had enough of an impact to qualify as a legend.

Remember, one of the things that elite specialisations can do is give a profession a mechanic that goes outside what that profession normally does. Druids got a transform and heavy healing, neither of which is traditional ranger territory. Guardians got traps, which is traditional ranger territory. So the only problem thematically I could see with elementalists having a djinn form is that up to now there hasn’t been an earth djinn… and that’s a problem that’s easily solved.

Regarding guardians… guardians are a bit dervish-like, but guardians generally don’t play with the elements the way that dervishes did. If you go through the dervish skill lists, Mysticism has a bit of a guardian feel, but Earth Prayers are distinctly Earth-oriented (as you’d expect), and Wind Prayers, despite the name, mostly have a water-esque flavour (particularly GW2 water magic) with some mobility skills.

So you could do it as a guardian picking up some elemental magic. Or you could drop Mysticism, replace it with fire, put in some more air magic, and get a dervish that way. Personally, I think the latter would have more of the feel of the dervish, as attunement-swapping would allow for a similar cadence to the classic dervish playstyle of powering up with enchantments and then throwing them off. (Still fairly different behaviour, but probably closer than what you’d be likely to get with the guardian).

That, and I really don’t think we’ll see scythe introduced as a weapon in its own right… which means ‘dervish’ is likely to be using some other weapon that’s suitable for wide, sweeping attacks. Guardian already has all the weapons that fit in that category except for axe. Elementalists… well, take your pick.

I really like this concept. I would love to see dervish return and this sounds really fun background story.

First, I would swap Scythe for one of the existing weapons — mostly because adding a new weapon is a HUGE endeavor. Maybe GS since a new two-hand weapon would be nice for Ele. I know that GW1 dervish used a scythe… maybe the scythe is the visual wep appearance when in Djinn form.

Second I would tie the elemental form to F5 so as to not appear similar to “overload” mechanic. This also prevents some mind numbing management of attunement cooldowns trying to figure out what form is available and when.

ProDexorite.9620:

As much as I’d love to see the Dervish return, I do not think it is a right specialty to Elementalist. At this point it feels more suitable for Guardian, since they have the bit of endurance we’ve seen Dervishes had back on the first Guild Wars, and the supportive aspect also suites better.

Dervishes have earth and wind prayers (wind includes water stuff as well), which are just classic elements, which don’t fit anywhere else. Scythes are also heavy weapons which require a lot of mobility, and don’t really fit heavy armor users in any way, except maybe the revenant.

carrolltech.9215:

I really like this concept. I would love to see dervish return and this sounds really fun background story.

Glad you liked it.

draxynnic.3719:

Regarding guardians… guardians are a bit dervish-like, but guardians generally don’t play with the elements the way that dervishes did. If you go through the dervish skill lists, Mysticism has a bit of a guardian feel, but Earth Prayers are distinctly Earth-oriented (as you’d expect), and Wind Prayers, despite the name, mostly have a water-esque flavour (particularly GW2 water magic) with some mobility skills.

So you could do it as a guardian picking up some elemental magic. Or you could drop Mysticism, replace it with fire, put in some more air magic, and get a dervish that way. Personally, I think the latter would have more of the feel of the dervish, as attunement-swapping would allow for a similar cadence to the classic dervish playstyle of powering up with enchantments and then throwing them off. (Still fairly different behaviour, but probably closer than what you’d be likely to get with the guardian)..

Mysticism could be the new toy of the elementalist too, through mantras.

I don’t think the “religious monk” theme is exclusive to guardians. You can see it working for elementalists, necromancers, rangers, thieves (daredevil), and even revenants. Imagine a necromancer “death monk”, chanting dark prayers like some kind of crazy zealot.

juno.1840:

First, I would swap Scythe for one of the existing weapons — mostly because adding a new weapon is a HUGE endeavor. Maybe GS since a new two-hand weapon would be nice for Ele. I know that GW1 dervish used a scythe… maybe the scythe is the visual wep appearance when in Djinn form.

Second I would tie the elemental form to F5 so as to not appear similar to “overload” mechanic. This also prevents some mind numbing management of attunement cooldowns trying to figure out what form is available and when.

Is it really a huge endeavor? People always assume adding a new weapon would imply adding 100 skins for it, but that’s not the case. They’ve been skipping underwater weapons in most of the newer weapon sets anyway, so there’s a clear precedent there.

I think it would be fine with 10-20 skins to start, and then they can keep revisiting old sets if they want to. The only real problem with new weapons are the new animations, but the new staff animations for revenant and daredevil cover it already pretty well.

And yeah, F5 is the idea, with an energy bar right below it to the left, like the necromancer and the warrior.

A new weapon type (i.e. Scythe) is a big endeavor because of:

• Addition of crafting recipes for all stat combos and level variants, including ascended
• Addition of unique animations to all race models
• Addition of skins for all Scythes (crafted, dropped, all levels, etc.)
• Addition of unique exotics including precursors for legendary variant
• New legendary (since there is no existing legendary)
• Addition of Scythe to dungeon rewards (dungeon vendors, reward tracks, etc.)

(and these are only what I could think of on a Monday morning, so surely there are more concerns)

I suspect ANet will add a new weapon at some point, but not yet. When they do, I bet it’ll be for all professions, not just one Elite spec for one expansion. The amount of work is too high to not reuse it across the entire game. Maybe this will happen when all professions have access to all the current weapons.

juno.1840:

• Addition of crafting recipes for all stat combos and level variants, including ascended

Easy to do, just need a few new components that would follow the same patterns the other weapons follow. And even then, it’s not really necessary to add crafting recipes at all, scythes could be vendor and loot only.

juno.1840:

• Addition of unique animations to all race models

Existing ones can be recycled, specially the new ones from the staff the revenant and the daredevil uses.

juno.1840:

• Addition of skins for all Scythes (crafted, dropped, all levels, etc.)
• Addition of Scythe to dungeon rewards (dungeon vendors, reward tracks, etc.)

No need. Scythes could just not drop, and be vendor-only.

And still, since (for now) scythes are elite specialization only, they are level 80 and locked to an expansion, in this case, Elona. So they don’t need to exist outside Elona in any way.

juno.1840:

• Addition of unique exotics including precursors for legendary variant
• New legendary (since there is no existing legendary)

This is the same work as any other legendary weapon.

juno.1840:

The amount of work is too high

It’s not. You’re just assuming scythes need to be available at every single corner of the game, in the same level as, say, greatswords, that have been present since release, and are used by core and elite specializations alike.

The only mandatory set would be the crafted ascended set, in case they decide to add crafting options at all. For all that matters, they could add exotic and ascended scythes to a special vendor in Elona, and make that the only source for them, with no scythes from loot either.

You can say “that’s lame”, “that’s not cohesive”, “that’s not engaging”, or whatever, but the fact is that they don’t need to do all that work. Do I wish they did it, and completed every skin set? Yeah, but one thing are wishes, and another efficiency.

You have underwater weapons as the precedent. They just stopped releasing new underwater weapon skins long time ago. You can look at GW1 too. They introduced new weapons across the expansions (daggers, scythe, spear) and they never went back and completed all the previous skin sets.

A number around 10 skins would be enough for release. They can expand them later if they feel it’s worth the effort.

What you are proposing is essentially the bare minimum (if that) to introduce scythes.

When I read what you wrote, I don’t get excited about scythes. It’s not much more than simply having the Djinn Form show a scythe graphic (similar to Death Shroud and Reaper Shroud). Honestly, as you thought I’d say, it’s a bit lame.

A new weapon introduction should come with everything that the existing weapons have. My point is that is a lot of work. Only ANet can comment on exactly how much, but qualitatively it’s more than simply adding an existing weapon (like GS) to Elementalist.

I think every forum area has a discussion about new weapons — spear is a popular topic right now. I think new weapon options are cool, and generate a lot of excitement. I don’t think one will be added for a single elite spec — it’ll be something larger in scope to make use of all the work required in the first place.

juno.1840:

What you are proposing is essentially the bare minimum (if that) to introduce scythes.

When I read what you wrote, I don’t get excited about scythes. It’s not much more than simply having the Djinn Form show a scythe graphic (similar to Death Shroud and Reaper Shroud). Honestly, as you thought I’d say, it’s a bit lame.

A new weapon introduction should come with everything that the existing weapons have. My point is that is a lot of work. Only ANet can comment on exactly how much, but qualitatively it’s more than simply adding an existing weapon (like GS) to Elementalist.

I think every forum area has a discussion about new weapons — spear is a popular topic right now. I think new weapon options are cool, and generate a lot of excitement. I don’t think one will be added for a single elite spec — it’ll be something larger in scope to make use of all the work required in the first place.

It’s being realistic. Instead of dismissing it as “too much work it won’t ever happen”, I go for what makes sense from a developer viewpoint, which is validated by other verifiable past design decisions. New weapons don’t need to come with everything existing weapons have, that’s just a wish. I would like for it to come true, but if we follow that standard we’ll never get any new weapons, because it’s too much work, and worse, it’s too much work for useless eye-candy.

Scythe will be added for the dervish now, but that doesn’t mean others won’t be able to use it as well in the future. Necromancer, revenant, and even ranger could use it. You can’t just expect to get 3 elite specializations using scythes in the same expansion, because now that would be lame and kill variety. You need to think long term, build the foundation for the new weapons now, and expand it later, slowly, instead of spending all of their possibilities in their very introduction.

Lonami.2987:

Is it really a huge endeavor? People always assume adding a new weapon would imply adding 100 skins for it, but that’s not the case. They’ve been skipping underwater weapons in most of the newer weapon sets anyway, so there’s a clear precedent there.

I think it would be fine with 10-20 skins to start, and then they can keep revisiting old sets if they want to. The only real problem with new weapons are the new animations, but the new staff animations for revenant and daredevil cover it already pretty well.

I’m glad that atleast somebody agrees with me in this. It is not impossible, it’s not even that much work. They are only for ESpecs, no noobie/low-lvl weapons are even needed. They don’t even need to be craftable.

They release 18 new Black Lion weapons like every 3 weeks.

and even druid could use it.

That’s actually a bit funny since DRUIDS will never use it But maybe rangers will.

Yannir.4132:

I’m glad that atleast somebody agrees with me in this. It is not impossible, it’s not even that much work. They are only for ESpecs, no noobie/low-lvl weapons are even needed. They don’t even need to be craftable.

They release 18 new Black Lion weapons like every 3 weeks.

Ideally, they would eventually update core professions with new weapon proficiencies and the missing utilities. You know, stuff that you want but would be lame to get with elite specializations, like ranger off-hand sword, mesmer main-hand pistol, etc. This opportunity could be used to introduce the new weapons for core professions. In this case, necromancer and revenant could get scythe for core, so it isn’t an elite-only weapon, and then elementalist and ranger get it for elite specializations later on.

But at the end of the day, none of this needs to happen to make new weapons viable.

As I said, 10-20 scythe skins, with only level 80 exotics and ascended, acquired only through vendors and loot only in Elona, with no crafting recipes, would work just fine, and achieve the same final result with a much smaller effort.

I’m glad I’m not the only one to see it this way, too.

Yannir.4132:

That’s actually a bit funny since DRUIDS will never use it But maybe rangers will.

Woops, typo. Fixed :P.

Compared to making skins, I don’t think it would require that much effort to make crafting recipes for a new weapon, particularly if the recipes are kept to level 80 exotics and higher.

There are a couple of bigger issues, though. One is that ArenaNet has never made a weapon exclusive to a single profession in GW2, which is probably reflective of the devs thinking that the effort of making a new weapon is only justified if at least two professions can use it. So what would the logical other profession to use a scythe be? Necromancer with a reaper-themed specialisation would be the obvious choice… but that’s already been done, right down to the name. Most other professions… are unlikely to work unless they have some dervish ancestry. How many different forms of the dervish do we really want?

A second issue is that historically, scythes were fairly inefficient weapons. They got used when that was all people had, but if a group of peasants had any preparation whatsoever, often the first thing they did was get the blacksmiths to remount the scythe blades vertically to make a crude fauchard. Dervishes in GW1 used scythes for reasons of history, tradition, and faith, and that works when we’re talking about humans who do value such things… however, I don’t see an asura or a charr putting up with using an impractical weapon on that basis.

What I’d see as being much more likely is introducing a ‘polearm’ class of weapons, which has skins that include scythes, but also halberds, glaives, and so on. This could then be something that could be easily given to a variety of professions.

That said, though, I think it’s still more likely that ArenaNet would just give a hypothetical dervish-oriented elementalist specialisation an existing weapon like a sword or greatsword and leave it at that.

Lonami.2987:

Mysticism could be the new toy of the elementalist too, through mantras.

I don’t think the “religious monk” theme is exclusive to guardians. You can see it working for elementalists, necromancers, rangers, thieves (daredevil), and even revenants. Imagine a necromancer “death monk”, chanting dark prayers like some kind of crazy zealot.

I’d be careful of doing too much religious stuff in a world there three out of five playable races are effectively agnostic at best. They got around it with guardian by saying that guardian magic was (at least in part) powered by faith, but it didn’t matter what the guardian put faith in.

You could use a similar approach for an elementalist elite specialisation, on the basis that the specialisation is essentially an elementalist taking guardian as a secondary profession. However, my thoughts regarding ditching Mysticism and replacing it with fire has more to do with the observation that, in GW1, Mysticism was the dervish’s source of burning, even though the damage type was ‘holy’ – in GW2, that’s something that could be built on and reflavoured into true fire magic to create the fire-related skills of the specialisation.

I’ve been thinking more about this, and I’m suspecting that Mantra’s will be the utility add for the next elite spec.

What pairs well with sword (assuming sword is melee-ish, and sword is the next elite wep per the leaks)?

Looking at utility skill types that we don’t currently have:

Meditations: This is cool, but not sure it pairs necessarily with a sword
Traps: I like traps, but I think wells would be more spell caster-ish
Wells: Interesting but not really different than AoEs we already have
Banner: No thanks
Stance: Also interesting when considering a melee-oriented elementalist
Mantras: Very caster-ish, supports fast skill play (when charged)
Elixir: Doesn’t fit with spell-caster theme imho
Gadget: Ditto
Turret: Ditto again
Spirit Weapon: I love this, but too similar to elementals and remind me of conjures
Spirit: Maybe, but again similar to elementals
Venom: Doesn’t fit with spell-caster theme, but maybe they are elemental effects?
Physical: Same
Corruption: Interesting but does it synergize with elemental attunements?
Spectral: Interesting but similar with corruption, needs to synergize with attunements

My favs from the list are Mantras and Stances.

For a dervish-style spec, I could see mantras or stances working. Mantras would probably work differently to mesmer mantras: rather than being a long cast time for multiple uses, I’d expect a more normal cast time but with only a single use. Stances could be used as-is, although for the dervish flavour, I’d like to see a flipover skill that cancels the stance in order to be replaced by some other effect.

More broadly, though, I don’t think it should be taken as given that new skill types will never be introduced through an elite specialisation – scrappers have gyros, after all. They appear to prefer to reuse existing types, probably because it makes runes that affect that skill type more universally applicable, but if they have a good idea that warrants a new skill type I expect they’ll use it.

One thing that’s crossed my mind for elementalists is wards – a signature skill type that’s not present in the GW2 elementalist. Wards could be repackaged as wells (for the reason given above), but would be distinguished from most of the existing elementalist AoEs through primarily being defensive in nature.

Something like: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ward_spell

I can see that, especially with:

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ward_Against_Elements
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ward_Against_Melee
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ward_of_Weakness

juno.1840:

I’ve been thinking more about this, and I’m suspecting that Mantra’s will be the utility add for the next elite spec.

What pairs well with sword (assuming sword is melee-ish, and sword is the next elite wep per the leaks)?

Looking at utility skill types that we don’t currently have:

Meditations: This is cool, but not sure it pairs necessarily with a sword
Traps: I like traps, but I think wells would be more spell caster-ish
Wells: Interesting but not really different than AoEs we already have
Banner: No thanks
Stance: Also interesting when considering a melee-oriented elementalist
Mantras: Very caster-ish, supports fast skill play (when charged)
Elixir: Doesn’t fit with spell-caster theme imho
Gadget: Ditto
Turret: Ditto again
Spirit Weapon: I love this, but too similar to elementals and remind me of conjures
Spirit: Maybe, but again similar to elementals
Venom: Doesn’t fit with spell-caster theme, but maybe they are elemental effects?
Physical: Same
Corruption: Interesting but does it synergize with elemental attunements?
Spectral: Interesting but similar with corruption, needs to synergize with attunements

My favs from the list are Mantras and Stances.

You forgot Consecrations and Manipulations btw.

The thing about wards is wells are basically GW2 wards. Aside from necromancer wards which work quite differently.

ProDexorite.9620:

As much as I’d love to see the Dervish return, I do not think it is a right specialty to Elementalist. At this point it feels more suitable for Guardian, since they have the bit of endurance we’ve seen Dervishes had back on the first Guild Wars, and the supportive aspect also suites better.

The fact that the Elementalist already has a Tempest as his/her specialty, which pretty much focuses on healing and supporting team-mates, it already drives it off from the typical Elementalist spectrum. Of course, in Guild Wars 2 each an every class has to be able to handle every three corners of the triangle (dps, tank and support), so that kind of covers it.

I’d be more happy to see Elementalist turned into a glass-cannon with something like, let’s call it Sorceress/Sorcerer, or a Shaman (the elemental side of the supportive Druid). This is of course, if we’ll ever see the second specialty for the current classes, which I hope we do at some point!

I could imagine a DPS focused class as a dervish. The Idea of mantras is good too. For every element plus one for healing and the elite.
And the transformform could be changing its role per element. Tanky in earth, supporty in water and bursty in air and fire.
But i would give the form another weapon per form like reaper shroud changes the weapon of the player. And the elite spec weapon could be dualwielding sword.

InsaneQR.7412:

ProDexorite.9620:

As much as I’d love to see the Dervish return, I do not think it is a right specialty to Elementalist. At this point it feels more suitable for Guardian, since they have the bit of endurance we’ve seen Dervishes had back on the first Guild Wars, and the supportive aspect also suites better.

The fact that the Elementalist already has a Tempest as his/her specialty, which pretty much focuses on healing and supporting team-mates, it already drives it off from the typical Elementalist spectrum. Of course, in Guild Wars 2 each an every class has to be able to handle every three corners of the triangle (dps, tank and support), so that kind of covers it.

I’d be more happy to see Elementalist turned into a glass-cannon with something like, let’s call it Sorceress/Sorcerer, or a Shaman (the elemental side of the supportive Druid). This is of course, if we’ll ever see the second specialty for the current classes, which I hope we do at some point!

I could imagine a DPS focused class as a dervish. The Idea of mantras is good too. For every element plus one for healing and the elite.
And the transformform could be changing its role per element. Tanky in earth, supporty in water and bursty in air and fire.
But i would give the form another weapon per form like reaper shroud changes the weapon of the player. And the elite spec weapon could be dualwielding sword.

Yeah that’s pretty much the idea. Each Djinn Form would cover a role, more or less. Dervishes should be able to DPS at melee, and even tank if necessary. They shouldn’t be focused on support in any way, since we already have the tempest for that. Dervishes would let you go your own way with your elementalist, not relying on others so much.

However, I disagree with the weapon. If we’re going to Elona, we’re doing the dervish, and the dervish needs the scythe. Anything else is wasting the opportunity of such an unique theme, an also a disrespect to the original one.

The dervish tones of earth and wind are only present at the elementalist, and the guardian already has many ways to go. In case of Elona, something based on the paragon would be the best idea. Check this other idea of mine, which I call the Sunspear, using trident and banners.

The Djinn Forms could use any weapons, it’s not very important. I would give them different styles of scythes to each one and be done with it.

For djinn forms… they could give them different weapons on the basis of what the GW1 djinns of various types used. Flame djinn usually carried swords, water djinn scythes, and air djinn spears. An earth djinn could use a big, rocky hammer.

Lonami.2987:

However, I disagree with the weapon. If we’re going to Elona, we’re doing the dervish, and the dervish needs the scythe. Anything else is wasting the opportunity of such an unique theme, an also a disrespect to the original one.

The problem with this argument is that ArenaNet just had the reaper using the greatsword, and they also just introduced another scythe-form staff skin. If ArenaNet had any plans to introduce scythes as a weapon in the foreseeable future, I don’t think they’d have done either: they’d be stockpiling scythe skins for when it gets released, and an elite specialisation whose concept has as strong an association with scythes as the reaper would probably have been held back until scythes were ready.

One thing to keep in mind is that the weapon and outfit of the dervish was for historical and religious reasons that wouldn’t necessarily be picked up by a Tyrian human, let alone one of the more practical races like a charr or asura. The typical Pact Commander is probably likely to respond to the idea of using a scythe with something along the lines of “I’d prefer a real weapon” – scythes, historically, were not very practical. Given any opportunity to prepare whatsoever, peasants that might need to use scythes to fight usually converted them by setting the blade at a different angle.

It’s possible, in fact, that Elonian dervishes may have abandoned scythes themselves. The history of the Elonian dervish started off with the scythe essentially being part of a disguise – the petty tyrants and warlords of the Shattered Dynasty era couldn’t identify that the peasant carrying a scythe was actually a holy warrior. It’s unlikely, however, that Palawa would continue to make that mistake. Particularly since Palawa strictly controls the food growing area and he knows about dervishes, his policy likely treats scythes in the same way as more conventional weapons – meaning that any dervishes in the resistance could have switched to something more practical (might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb), more concealable, or both.

lol…. i was about to talk about djin form were suited more for elementalis than dervish avatars, and for surprise that is what i found.

Altough how the game is balanced they would need to be broken by defense or offensive sjing forms.. if aint broken people would not play it..

draxynnic.3719:

One thing to keep in mind is that the weapon and outfit of the dervish was for historical and religious reasons that wouldn’t necessarily be picked up by a Tyrian human, let alone one of the more practical races like a charr or asura. The typical Pact Commander is probably likely to respond to the idea of using a scythe with something along the lines of “I’d prefer a real weapon” – scythes, historically, were not very practical. Given any opportunity to prepare whatsoever, peasants that might need to use scythes to fight usually converted them by setting the blade at a different angle.

This isn’t the real world. We have magic here. Just check how the reaper shroud uses the scythe, and tell me “that’s not useful”.

Aeolus.3615:

lol…. i was about to talk about djin form were suited more for elementalis than dervish avatars, and for surprise that is what i found.

Altough how the game is balanced they would need to be broken by defense or offensive sjing forms.. if aint broken people would not play it..

Djinn form roles are viable and wouldn’t overlap with other elite specializations, as long as they are all melee-focused and with no support for allies. The elementalist dervish is about being in the front line kinda like a warrior.

Your description doesnt sound anything what the dervish was in guild wars 1.

They werent farmers and they didnt help common folk wiht their crops and fields…
They were holy warriors specialized for combat and battle, they used earth prayers for self preservation as well as releasing sand storms appon their foes. They used wind prayers to enhance their speed and combat abilities.

On top of that their faith was unshakable, and fully dedicated towards the human gods. This enabled them to become avatars of the god them selves enacting their divine will and reaping their blessings.

“Serving the gods as holy warriors, dervishes stand confidently in the whirlwind of conflict. Martial techniques perfected in the deserts of Elona allow a Dervish’s scythe to lash out quickly at multiple opponents, surrounding the holy warrior with a swath of destruction. Initiates often learn spells of self-protection, prayers that rush a combatant into battle, and invocations that empower attacks with elemental fury. Masters of the profession can assume the form of a god, enacting divine will with holy blessings. Keenly aware of the conditions of a fight, a Dervish can reap great benefits by using multiple Enchantments. Wandering the savannahs and deserts of Elona, the faithful Dervish chants prayers to the earth and wind… and the fury of the sandstorm answers in response.”

Note that the “elemental fury” refers to a wide varerity of self enchantments/auras that were commonly tied to the human gods again such as lyssas haste, balthazars rage, grenths aura and grenths fingers which enhanced their attacks with elemental damage
They had the word “earth” and “wind” (similar to air) and they used enchantments in guild wars 1… but thats about the only vague things they have in common with elementalists. They werent casters,they were soldiers. Think of a mix between a protection/smitting/melee monk i guess… but we kinda already have that one in form of a guardian

Vukorep.3081:

On top of that their faith was unshakable, and fully dedicated towards the human gods.

Which is why we won’t get dervish. Dervish would be nonsense for all every race but humans.

InsaneQR.7412:

ProDexorite.9620:

As much as I’d love to see the Dervish return, I do not think it is a right specialty to Elementalist. At this point it feels more suitable for Guardian, since they have the bit of endurance we’ve seen Dervishes had back on the first Guild Wars, and the supportive aspect also suites better.

The fact that the Elementalist already has a Tempest as his/her specialty, which pretty much focuses on healing and supporting team-mates, it already drives it off from the typical Elementalist spectrum. Of course, in Guild Wars 2 each an every class has to be able to handle every three corners of the triangle (dps, tank and support), so that kind of covers it.

I’d be more happy to see Elementalist turned into a glass-cannon with something like, let’s call it Sorceress/Sorcerer, or a Shaman (the elemental side of the supportive Druid). This is of course, if we’ll ever see the second specialty for the current classes, which I hope we do at some point!

I could imagine a DPS focused class as a dervish. The Idea of mantras is good too. For every element plus one for healing and the elite.
And the transformform could be changing its role per element. Tanky in earth, supporty in water and bursty in air and fire.
But i would give the form another weapon per form like reaper shroud changes the weapon of the player. And the elite spec weapon could be dualwielding sword.

Yea, i love the idea of a dervish melee self-sustaining role for elementalists. Eles dont have that kind of role with the nuedering of D/D.
I could see mantras being tied to current attunement, like glyphs are. Have different mantras for mobility, damage, sustain, CC (all self-buffing, maybe traited to make them AoE splash to allies) and have them all be called down on yourself rather than enemies, so its kind of a PbAoE effect. For example:

A damage Mantra that strikes where you are, doing PbAoE damage plus granting fury to self/allies,

CC mantra: Knocks back foes around you and grants 5 stability to self/allies,

Mobility mantra: Immobilizes or chills nearby foes and grants superspeed or swiftness to self/allies (Break Stun)
OR
Mobility Mantra: Slow nearby foes, aply quickness to self

Mitigation Mantra: weakens and cripples foes and grants protection, vigor, and regen to self/allies.

Sustain Mantra: Slows nearby enemies and cleanses 2 condis to self/allies (Break Stun)

Heal Mantra: Heal self (3-4k?) plus:
Fire: Cleanse 3 conditions plus 1 per enemy hit
Water: 1k health per enemy hit
Air: 2s stealth plus 1s stealth per enemy hit
Earth: 2s magnetic aura per enemy hit

Elite: Trouble your enemies with a slew of problems and boost yourself with great benefits that increase for each foe you hinder
Fire: Burn (5 stacks, 3 sec), blind, and damage (2k) nearby foes, and grant yourself 5 might (10 sec) and fury (10 sec) pluse 2 might (10 sec) and 5 seconds of fury fo every foe hit

Water: Inflict Vulnerability (15 stacks, 10 seconds), chill (8 seconds) and damage (1k) to nearby foes and grant yourself Vigor (6 sec), regen (6sec) and frost aura (3 sec) plus 700 health and 1 sec frost aura per enemy hit

Air: Stun, weaken (5 sec), stun (2 sec) and deal a lightning strike (2k) to nearby foes while granting yourself swiftness (12 sec) and 3 sec stealth plus 1 or 2 sec stealth per enemy hit

Earth: Immobilize (5 sec), bleed (6 stacks, 12 seconds), and blind nearby enemies and grant yourself protection (4 seconds), Obsidian Flesh (3 seconds) and stability (2 stacks, 6 seconds), plus 1 seconds of protection and 1 stack of stability per enemy hit.

Heal and elite are efected by attunement, others are more tailored to generic attunement use, though they could be changed. Probably have mantras focused on self buffing with a trait that can make them affect allies. traits to also increase the number of casts possible. Probably 2 casts per mantra plus a third like mesmer, but have longer cooldowns per mantra.

Elite mantra is supposed to change the course of a fight or allow you to escape/survive a burst (read: really OP 1 time use skill that and elite is supposed to kind of be). cooldown would be long, but this would be the first really useful elite for ele in pvp gamemodes…

Just to avoid flame, these are completely biased to make ele super powerful and may be completely overpowered, so that is noted.

Just some ideas for possible mantra skills

edit: Elite Mantra

Lonami.2987:

draxynnic.3719:

One thing to keep in mind is that the weapon and outfit of the dervish was for historical and religious reasons that wouldn’t necessarily be picked up by a Tyrian human, let alone one of the more practical races like a charr or asura. The typical Pact Commander is probably likely to respond to the idea of using a scythe with something along the lines of “I’d prefer a real weapon” – scythes, historically, were not very practical. Given any opportunity to prepare whatsoever, peasants that might need to use scythes to fight usually converted them by setting the blade at a different angle.

This isn’t the real world. We have magic here. Just check how the reaper shroud uses the scythe, and tell me “that’s not useful”.

It’s part of a form of an incarnation of death where the scythe is very much an integral part of that incarnation… even if a greatsword, greataxe, or even a fauchard would be more efficient with those sweeping blows. We get a scythe in reaper shroud because the aspect of death as a reaper uses a scythe despite its inefficiency.

What’s the signature weapon of the reaper when not in shroud form, when they do have a choice? Greatsword.

If they were going to introduce scythe as a specialisation weapon, doing so with the Reaper would have been the time to do it. That they didn’t do so then suggests they’re not going to. Saying that the successors of the dervish tradition have ditched scythes in exchange for something more practical would then be a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why they don’t use scythes any more.

Now, if there is something like a djinn form mechanic, that I could see having a scythe. Or possibly a different weapon depending on which form of djinn is assumed, with the scythe being associated with water.

Not to mention that Reaper Shroud scythe is not a physical scythe but instead a shadowy manifestation of a scythe. It is incorporeal to atleast some degree.

Vukorep.3081:

They werent farmers and they didnt help common folk wiht their crops and fields…
They were holy warriors specialized for combat and battle, they used earth prayers for self preservation as well as releasing sand storms appon their foes. They used wind prayers to enhance their speed and combat abilities.

In GW1 you help Melonni commune with the earth to know why the crops and the cattle aren’t doing well.

Crinn.7864:

Vukorep.3081:

On top of that their faith was unshakable, and fully dedicated towards the human gods.

Which is why we won’t get dervish. Dervish would be nonsense for all every race but humans.

Human gods have long since been gone, that’s why in this idea they don’t follow gods anymore, focusing on elements exclusively. The guardian works in this same way regarding non-human faith.

GW1 had lot of enemies with dervish roles, many of them non-human and non-religious, too.

oscuro.9720:

Yea, i love the idea of a dervish melee self-sustaining role for elementalists. Eles dont have that kind of role with the nuedering of D/D.
I could see mantras being tied to current attunement, like glyphs are. Have different mantras for mobility, damage, sustain, CC (all self-buffing, maybe traited to make them AoE splash to allies) and have them all be called down on yourself rather than enemies, so its kind of a PbAoE effect.

Yeah, that’s the idea, a frontline melee fighter, able to tank if needed too.