Elementalist in PvP
Daphoenix’s Guide to D/D, linked from the first page from memory:
This leads me to my actual topic:
(Note: Everything I say in my posts is mostly pvp related.)Unconventional attacks / Openers
A predicable ele is as good at damage / defending as a dead ele.
Getting stuck in particular rotation that is the same as every other eles rotation or building you build to every other eles build can be a bad idea. If I had a gun and you had a shield and every fight we had I opened by shooting you in the head, then every fight you would counter by raising your shield to protect your head every time and I would be down a bullet (bar the first 1 or 2 when we first met). However, if I shot you head the first 2 or 3 times, then, expecting you to block you head with your shield, I shot you in the leg, then we would have the opposite outcome.The same is true for RTL Updarft combo. If you are a fast moving invisible (due to bug) sprinting mist man or a ball of lighting, I’m gonna dodge as you reach me and your down an updraft. If you do this every fight then you will always be down an updraft and I will still have mine (d/d ele vs d/d ele here).
Daphoenix goes on about openers, I’ll add a bit here.
Lighting flash into updraft, your foe was on the advance, now you are and you can get some damage in (burning speed/drakes breath and fire grab).How about we start in earth then head lighting without wasting out blast finisher, or after our might stack combo? So we start with in earth (either at the start of the fight or after might combo) then we use our magnetic grasp (earth 3) we follow this up by changing to air during then we get a free updraft on our foe who cant dodge without using a skill or condition removal due to the immobilize. If you started the fight this way the you can go fire for fire 3 into fire 5, or even to water to get the chill 3 off before your foe recovers.
What about some RTL then lighting flash (the then is very important, if you try to LF straight after RTL it will bug out and you will go nowhere) then earth 3 to get up close and personal and perhaps throw in an earth 2 into earth 4. So you’ve put a bit on cd, but you have traveled to your foe, saved you updraft (you can even save you earth 4 as well if you want to).
Just used updraft into burning speed? You foe knows there is a flame grab coming after this, how about a mix up, don’t use the flame grab, use fire 4 then your might stack combo, or even earth 3 fire for a nifty fire shield, buffs and then a free un-dodgeable (unless they blow a skill) KD and churning earth might stack combo.
You might say, he was on the ground and you could have got a free fire grab, sure, but using a long high damage cd at the start of the fight puts you foe on the defensive but puts you out toward the end of the fight (unless the fight will last longer the the cd). If you save your fire grab, you can use fire 2 then fire 5 later to burst your foe down. Heck you might even still have some good stacks of might.
Why do you use cleansing fire and not mist form or armour of earth like everyone else Slasher? That’s a good question, with a simple answer, cleansing fire and lighting flash have the shortest cds and therefore I can get my buffs up quicker. MF I don’t use in Tourneys because the point will neutralize too quickly when I bunker and its cd is horrid. Amour of earth, that is a skill I use in tourneys instead of cleansing fire, unless I decide not to run a summon weap, its too good to pass up in bunker situations, but unfortunately it doesn’t last long for its cd.
If I’m not fighting a condition class I use my can trips offensively, no-one expects a cleansing flame, swap, fire grab (till now) or a fire grab with cleansing wave during. Or the lighting flash updraft combo yet.
Mix it up guys, do something different and confuse you foes. Doing the same stuff and running the same build makes you too predictable. And as I said, a predictable ele (anyclass even) is as good as a dead ele.
Sophea Sladorian – Charr Ranger – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Of Elements – Human Elementalist – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
(edited by TGSlasher.1458)
You’ve missed my point with his “work around”. All I’m suggesting is just a way to reduce the obviousness. Regardless if you “do the obvious”, if I swap from Air to Fire to do Burning Speed and then instead of the flame grab, swap to Earth, my opponent can suggest that I am going to follow up with a variety of skills based on an icon he sees.
He does not have to watch my hands, he can watch my portrait and make judgements based on something that is visible the moment I am targeted. It is not the same as watching for stability, as that pops up on a moment where you cannot specifically predict it to, but seeing what attunement your opponent is in is constantly throwing red flags. It is a complete waste to hold off on opportunity to “confuse your opponents” like I mentioned earlier because you’re dropping your attunement cooldowns when you could be just as unpredictable as any other class. Maybe the guide and your post is indicating Eles “need to display their attunement”, which if that’s the case and that’s your opinion, that’s all I was asking for. A necro can hold a staff and while I’m busy dealing with their attacks, they switch, but nothing shows me they’ve swapped until I take a moment to focus on their character or I get hit with their swapped weapon and I can not be sure what’s happening. See my point?
D/D does suffer from some predictability issues. It is not as bad with S/D b/c a lot of what you do is insant-cast or channeled, so dodging isn’t as effective. To be effective with D/D you have to have some form of rotation (even if it is unconventional rotations) so that the pace of your skills are better. None of your skills do enough on their own, so you need to hit quite a few—> this leads to rotations and predictability. Your best bet to be less predictable is to follow some of TGSlasher’s advice and use lightning flash creatively. Earthquake+lightning flash (right behind someone)—>dodge-roll EA—>burning speed is a little bit different of a skill rotation than people are used to. Similar with lightning flash+updraft—>fire 2 + firegrab. You really have to get your big hits (burning speed, firegrab), and using your cc’s are your best bets.
That said, D/D is not a great dueler AT all. D/D is best at spamming out aoe’s into groups of people, as well as dropping aoe heals on your team. When things get chaotic, its not as hard to land your aoe damage. If you want to duel, go S/D.
This isn’t an Ele problem. It’s a GW2 problem. When you see a warrior with a greatsword you can probably guess what his build is just from whether he has a signet on his bar, and know exactly how he’s going to play. The same goes for most classes. See a necro with a scepter and get ready for lots of condi stacking. See a necro with a dagger and get ready for lots of sustained melee damage auto attacks. The classes are very predictable, because most unconventional builds don’t tend to work very well.
People constantly gripe about how bad Condi Ele is, but it is a (barely) functional build that nobody really expects when they see an Ele with a scepter. This is an example of what I mean. Condi Ele shouldn’t be bad, but it is. It works, but not well.
In a game with as big a variety of traits, weapons, and utilities you shouldn’t be able to look at what weapon someone has equipped and tell them what their trait setup and gearing looks like with any degree of certainty. But you can. Because most builds are pretty bad when compared to the few optimal, meta-approved builds.
This wasn’t at all a means to say I’m concerned with the effectiveness of dueling when it comes to D/D. My only gripe was with the icon that sits on my character. I win tons of 1v1s with D/D and it would just be nice to know that I’m not megaphoning my next move via an icon that shows what combinations of skills are coming next. Maybe I could use it to my advantage but just haven’t given it enough thought due to preference.
PinCushion made a good point. The fact that this is apparent across all classes, which I did not take into account, is frustrating. Why is it that we have to see everything about our opponent through icons where we can go “Oh its a signet warrior, let me handle him this way…”? In GW1, we never knew what was coming until we saw it. A spirit being placed, a glyph going off. I completely agree that the build variety at the moment is sufferable and that causes some grief we see. Once builds are diversified, then maybe it won’t matter so much. Until then, this has given me plenty of thought. Thanks guys.
Lol, didn’t read the last sentence of your first post.
Perosnally I believe the attunement buff should be removed from enemy eyes, but replaced with a more obvious animation for what attunement you are currently in. A small bracelet of earth / fire / water / air, whoopee, totally a master of the elements. Arms completely covered in fire, now that’s what I’m talking about.
Sophea Sladorian – Charr Ranger – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Of Elements – Human Elementalist – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
It’s true that many people are learning to watch for the attunement patterns, OP. But there’s many ways to use this to your advantage.
For example, you can RTL into someone. If they have a habit of dodging at the end of RTL because they expect the air draft, simply RTL in and give it a couple of seconds while auto attacking. RTL can follow at the end of the dodge roll.
The point I’m trying to make is that while elementalist has some amazing combos, most people learned to watch out for those signs and have learned to shut them out early. My advice would be to watch some high skill level elementalists, and watch how they bait out evasive skills/rolls with mini combos before unleashing big ones.