Guild Wars 2

Dude, it took this long to figure out d/d ele is not the hardest class to play? Most of ele skills are pretty much self explanatory. Managing cd comes with experience. d/d ele have plenty of survivability. Now, its slightly harder due to the RTL nerf. Face it, ele need a slight mobility nerf anyways. I hope there isnt anymore nerfs. I hope that they will have bug fixes to make them stronger.

Really, the two class that are hardest to play are warrior and engineers

Warrior have to compensate their lack of utility with experience. Although the class is simple to undersatnd, they actually have to learn the mechanics of other classes. The best counter is knowledge and warrior have to use it to their advantage.

Engineers, their builds are confusing and clunky. I hope they will get more love since I actually love playing them for their inherit difficulty.

loseridoit.2756:

Dude, it took this long to figure out d/d ele is not the hardest class to play? Most of ele skills are pretty much self explanatory. Managing cd comes with experience. d/d ele have plenty of survivability. Now, its slightly harder due to the RTL nerf. Face it, ele need a slight mobility nerf anyways. I hope there isnt anymore nerfs. I hope that they will have bug fixes to make them stronger.

Really, the two class that are hardest to play are warrior and engineers

Warrior have to compensate their lack of utility with experience. Although the class is simple to undersatnd, they actually have to learn the mechanics of other classes. The best counter is knowledge and warrior have to use it to their advantage.

Engineers, their builds are confusing and clunky. I hope they will get more love since I actually love playing them for their inherit difficulty.

If I want to get away..I can get away even with a staff or scepter/focus from multiple opponenents, map awareness got little to do with presumed OP mobility, in this instance we’re still talking about a single skill: RTL.

Can you play glass cannon ele? It’s not considered viable by many, still the damage is there for sure ( d/d and staff for me), if you want to compare d/d ele to a warrior, pls make sure you’re comparing glass cannon with glass cannon ( again both of them work)

Everyone can play every class in this game. Just playing it isn’t hard. Being good at it though, that’s a whole different story.

Arheundel.6451:

loseridoit.2756:

Dude, it took this long to figure out d/d ele is not the hardest class to play? Most of ele skills are pretty much self explanatory. Managing cd comes with experience. d/d ele have plenty of survivability. Now, its slightly harder due to the RTL nerf. Face it, ele need a slight mobility nerf anyways. I hope there isnt anymore nerfs. I hope that they will have bug fixes to make them stronger.

Really, the two class that are hardest to play are warrior and engineers

Warrior have to compensate their lack of utility with experience. Although the class is simple to undersatnd, they actually have to learn the mechanics of other classes. The best counter is knowledge and warrior have to use it to their advantage.

Engineers, their builds are confusing and clunky. I hope they will get more love since I actually love playing them for their inherit difficulty.

If I want to get away..I can get away even with a staff or scepter/focus from multiple opponenents, map awareness got little to do with presumed OP mobility, in this instance we’re still talking about a single skill: RTL.

Can you play glass cannon ele? It’s not considered viable by many, still the damage is there for sure ( d/d and staff for me), if you want to compare d/d ele to a warrior, pls make sure you’re comparing glass cannon with glass cannon ( again both of them work)

I am comparing play style. d/d ele have lots of versatility and warriors…not so much. Yea, there are staff and sceptor/focus, but i havnt seen that many people pvp with it.

Of course glass cannons of all professions can kill and die quick, but the ability to migrate damange and cc is important. The playstyle that accompany that ability will determine the profession is successful. For warrior, their lack of utilities will make it difficult to pvp. Thus, they are declare the worse pvp profession.

I play a lvl 80 warrior aswell. Saying that they dont have the utilities to mitigate/cc dmg is 100% bullkitten. Hammer is pure CC with solid dmg. Axe/shield combo brings offensive AND defensive abilities. Aswell as constant vigor signet. Warrior has more then enough active skills to mitigate dmg aswell as passive features, with heavy armor and highest base hp pool.

Warriors and D/D have a completly different playstyle. But that doesn’t mean 1 is harder to be good at then the other.

While playing an class can be easy if you are good, playing the elementalist was challenging for me to learn (and am still only decent) because of the inherent squishiness and number of abilities. Each ability has proper uses, and proper timings, and you have to pay attention to when you swap to the proper attunement or you could really hurt yourself. Also, because of the very low damage output, a fight for an elementalist requires having much more environmental awareness (new people entering battle, boons/conditions on everyone, terrain). This is all because even taking out a low-hp class can seem like a marathon compared to the 2-second KO that many other classes can achieve. Longer fights require executing well (concentrating) for a longer time, which is harder for people learning. Especially learning, I envied thiefs who could go “lol, Backstab, hearseeker, heartseeker, heartseeker your dead” in a couple seconds because that doesn’t require executing for a 45 second fight to start weakening someone up. You could argue, “then just go GC if you want to kill quickly,” but we then have NOTHING to fall back on for defense (we use our mobility skills for damage, and can’t just stealth if our burst doesn’t kill). To me, that is why elementalist is hard, and something I am still learning how to not die quickly while still doing decent damage.

loseridoit.2756:

Arheundel.6451:

loseridoit.2756:

Dude, it took this long to figure out d/d ele is not the hardest class to play? Most of ele skills are pretty much self explanatory. Managing cd comes with experience. d/d ele have plenty of survivability. Now, its slightly harder due to the RTL nerf. Face it, ele need a slight mobility nerf anyways. I hope there isnt anymore nerfs. I hope that they will have bug fixes to make them stronger.

Really, the two class that are hardest to play are warrior and engineers

Warrior have to compensate their lack of utility with experience. Although the class is simple to undersatnd, they actually have to learn the mechanics of other classes. The best counter is knowledge and warrior have to use it to their advantage.

Engineers, their builds are confusing and clunky. I hope they will get more love since I actually love playing them for their inherit difficulty.

If I want to get away..I can get away even with a staff or scepter/focus from multiple opponenents, map awareness got little to do with presumed OP mobility, in this instance we’re still talking about a single skill: RTL.

Can you play glass cannon ele? It’s not considered viable by many, still the damage is there for sure ( d/d and staff for me), if you want to compare d/d ele to a warrior, pls make sure you’re comparing glass cannon with glass cannon ( again both of them work)

I am comparing play style. d/d ele have lots of versatility and warriors…not so much. Yea, there are staff and sceptor/focus, but i havnt seen that many people pvp with it.

Of course glass cannons of all professions can kill and die quick, but the ability to migrate damange and cc is important. The playstyle that accompany that ability will determine the profession is successful. For warrior, their lack of utilities will make it difficult to pvp. Thus, they are declare the worse pvp profession.

By design eles are supposed to be more versatile than warriors, a specialised profession.
A balanced ele will always perfom better than a balanced warrior but a glass cannon warrior will bring more damage than a glass cannon ele.

The general concept is that a glass cannon is unsuitable for 1vs1 , you’re supposed to lose to any balanced or bunker build at equal level of skill, I rarely die with a glass cannon ele because I avoid 1vs1 at all cost, I’m there to bring burst damage and wrap things fast nothing more..nothing less, the damage is huge but short lived compared to warriors, who can effectively deliver the burst damage more easily and quicker ( I still love the ele burst, but it requires more set up because of : burning speed with the dmg at the end, fire grab that miss quite easily )

Don’t let yourself be confused by the geneal opinion, every profession is viable in its own way, a team strategy should be based on people playstyles and not what is considered OP.

There was no ele in the previous meta until that video from super squad with the staff water ele, before that time, the ele was considered UP and people used to run with double warrior.

The ele is an excellent skirmisher because that’s the nature of the class, a versatile profession, regardless of the weapon set, an ele still offer few good escape/re-positioning skills for quick engage-disengage.
It has always been very hard to lock down a skirmisher, because of the mobility, which is used to harass and weaken the opponent, now a warrior would be great for area control and target lock down ( hammer/mace) , glass cannon ( GS warrior ) or heavy support ( bow/mace-shield ), in this case a balanced warrior on a point would hold long enough against a skirmisher ele for help ( thief) to come

Arheundel.6451:

loseridoit.2756:

Arheundel.6451:

loseridoit.2756:

Dude, it took this long to figure out d/d ele is not the hardest class to play? Most of ele skills are pretty much self explanatory. Managing cd comes with experience. d/d ele have plenty of survivability. Now, its slightly harder due to the RTL nerf. Face it, ele need a slight mobility nerf anyways. I hope there isnt anymore nerfs. I hope that they will have bug fixes to make them stronger.

Really, the two class that are hardest to play are warrior and engineers

Warrior have to compensate their lack of utility with experience. Although the class is simple to undersatnd, they actually have to learn the mechanics of other classes. The best counter is knowledge and warrior have to use it to their advantage.

Engineers, their builds are confusing and clunky. I hope they will get more love since I actually love playing them for their inherit difficulty.

If I want to get away..I can get away even with a staff or scepter/focus from multiple opponenents, map awareness got little to do with presumed OP mobility, in this instance we’re still talking about a single skill: RTL.

Can you play glass cannon ele? It’s not considered viable by many, still the damage is there for sure ( d/d and staff for me), if you want to compare d/d ele to a warrior, pls make sure you’re comparing glass cannon with glass cannon ( again both of them work)

I am comparing play style. d/d ele have lots of versatility and warriors…not so much. Yea, there are staff and sceptor/focus, but i havnt seen that many people pvp with it.

Of course glass cannons of all professions can kill and die quick, but the ability to migrate damange and cc is important. The playstyle that accompany that ability will determine the profession is successful. For warrior, their lack of utilities will make it difficult to pvp. Thus, they are declare the worse pvp profession.

By design eles are supposed to be more versatile than warriors, a specialised profession.
A balanced ele will always perfom better than a balanced warrior but a glass cannon warrior will bring more damage than a glass cannon ele.

The general concept is that a glass cannon is unsuitable for 1vs1 , you’re supposed to lose to any balanced or bunker build at equal level of skill, I rarely die with a glass cannon ele because I avoid 1vs1 at all cost, I’m there to bring burst damage and wrap things fast nothing more..nothing less, the damage is huge but short lived compared to warriors, who can effectively deliver the burst damage more easily and quicker ( I still love the ele burst, but it requires more set up because of : burning speed with the dmg at the end, fire grab that miss quite easily )

Don’t let yourself be confused by the geneal opinion, every profession is viable in its own way, a team strategy should be based on people playstyles and not what is considered OP.

There was no ele in the previous meta until that video from super squad with the staff water ele, before that time, the ele was considered UP and people used to run with double warrior.

The ele is an excellent skirmisher because that’s the nature of the class, a versatile profession, regardless of the weapon set, an ele still offer few good escape/re-positioning skills for quick engage-disengage.
It has always been very hard to lock down a skirmisher, because of the mobility, which is used to harass and weaken the opponent, now a warrior would be great for area control and target lock down ( hammer/mace) , glass cannon ( GS warrior ) or heavy support ( bow/mace-shield ), in this case a balanced warrior on a point would hold long enough against a skirmisher ele for help ( thief) to come

By praising other classes, you help expose the problem with the warrior class. All other classes have the ability to migrate damage which makes cc and damage harder. Versatility equals pain for other classes. Unfortunately, it means the warrior has to work harder to hit another class. Now do you understand why that warriors are a harder class to play? You have to know all the problems and encounters with other classes and develop strategies against them. Thus, warriors are a harder class to play or else they will not survive. Due to warrior’s simple mechanic, there isnt a one button guarantee escape like ele mist form, stealth thevies, mesmer distortion and tele, etc.

Dalo.3941:

I play a lvl 80 warrior aswell. Saying that they dont have the utilities to mitigate/cc dmg is 100% bullkitten. Hammer is pure CC with solid dmg. Axe/shield combo brings offensive AND defensive abilities. Aswell as constant vigor signet. Warrior has more then enough active skills to mitigate dmg aswell as passive features, with heavy armor and highest base hp pool.

I wouldnt call it “more than enough defensive abilities”. Warriors lack access to most defensive boons. Signet of Stamina is just 25% endurance regen (vigor is 50%). So for constant vigor you have to go for warhorn + boon duration. So you wont have a shield unless you pick up a second 1h set.

Most warrior builds have to rely on mobility skills as their main source of defence. IMO this is totally fine, because on the other hand warriors deal massive amounts of damage (even with weapons like hammer).

Arheundel.6451:

loseridoit.2756:

Arheundel.6451:

loseridoit.2756:

Dude, it took this long to figure out d/d ele is not the hardest class to play? Most of ele skills are pretty much self explanatory. Managing cd comes with experience. d/d ele have plenty of survivability. Now, its slightly harder due to the RTL nerf. Face it, ele need a slight mobility nerf anyways. I hope there isnt anymore nerfs. I hope that they will have bug fixes to make them stronger.

Really, the two class that are hardest to play are warrior and engineers

Warrior have to compensate their lack of utility with experience. Although the class is simple to undersatnd, they actually have to learn the mechanics of other classes. The best counter is knowledge and warrior have to use it to their advantage.

Engineers, their builds are confusing and clunky. I hope they will get more love since I actually love playing them for their inherit difficulty.

If I want to get away..I can get away even with a staff or scepter/focus from multiple opponenents, map awareness got little to do with presumed OP mobility, in this instance we’re still talking about a single skill: RTL.

Can you play glass cannon ele? It’s not considered viable by many, still the damage is there for sure ( d/d and staff for me), if you want to compare d/d ele to a warrior, pls make sure you’re comparing glass cannon with glass cannon ( again both of them work)

I am comparing play style. d/d ele have lots of versatility and warriors…not so much. Yea, there are staff and sceptor/focus, but i havnt seen that many people pvp with it.

Of course glass cannons of all professions can kill and die quick, but the ability to migrate damange and cc is important. The playstyle that accompany that ability will determine the profession is successful. For warrior, their lack of utilities will make it difficult to pvp. Thus, they are declare the worse pvp profession.

By design eles are supposed to be more versatile than warriors, a specialised profession.
A balanced ele will always perfom better than a balanced warrior but a glass cannon warrior will bring more damage than a glass cannon ele.

The general concept is that a glass cannon is unsuitable for 1vs1 , you’re supposed to lose to any balanced or bunker build at equal level of skill, I rarely die with a glass cannon ele because I avoid 1vs1 at all cost, I’m there to bring burst damage and wrap things fast nothing more..nothing less, the damage is huge but short lived compared to warriors, who can effectively deliver the burst damage more easily and quicker ( I still love the ele burst, but it requires more set up because of : burning speed with the dmg at the end, fire grab that miss quite easily )

Don’t let yourself be confused by the geneal opinion, every profession is viable in its own way, a team strategy should be based on people playstyles and not what is considered OP.

There was no ele in the previous meta until that video from super squad with the staff water ele, before that time, the ele was considered UP and people used to run with double warrior.

The ele is an excellent skirmisher because that’s the nature of the class, a versatile profession, regardless of the weapon set, an ele still offer few good escape/re-positioning skills for quick engage-disengage.
It has always been very hard to lock down a skirmisher, because of the mobility, which is used to harass and weaken the opponent, now a warrior would be great for area control and target lock down ( hammer/mace) , glass cannon ( GS warrior ) or heavy support ( bow/mace-shield ), in this case a balanced warrior on a point would hold long enough against a skirmisher ele for help ( thief) to come

Having played both, warrior is actually harder to play than ele in PVP/WvW.

There is a lot less room for mistakes, it’s like playing ele without RTL, mistform, flash, and without boons like regen/prot, and without proper condition removal.

Ele’s basically have a ton of headroom for mistakes / recovery. Warrior does not.

But again we’re comparing a glass cannon warrior to tanky ele with regen/protection boons, I believe we all know that unless you use traits, an ele got no way to access multiple boons at time, basically only 2-3 skills grant boons on their own, for the rest eles need to heavily invest in water/arcana.

Yes , warriors could use some more condition removal, but from the moment that I play warrior as well, I can safely say that the passive defense and multiple control options make the warrior a great addition to any team during team fights, with little more condition removal a balanced warrior would hold his own against anybody in 1vs1

I play both ele and warrior, both with glass cannon spec or balanced spec (for warriors mace/shield + hammer or bow), the glass cannon warrior is definetely easier to use and can last relatively longer than the ele, while dealing more damage overall, the balanced ele is easier to use than the warrior because of regen and healing, still the only advantage is that a balanced ele can fight against anybody with 1vs1 even though he lacks the dmg and control of the warrior counterpart, the latter is said to lack good disengage buttons but given the fact that I can easily get away from any fight even if using a staff or scepter/focus ( hence no rtl), maybe we should assume that warrior simply need a more specific build that nobody has yet discovered

Arheundel.6451:

But again we’re comparing a glass cannon warrior to tanky ele with regen/protection boons, I believe we all know that unless you use traits, an ele got no way to access multiple boons at time, basically only 2-3 skills grant boons on their own, for the rest eles need to heavily invest in water/arcana.

Yes , warriors could use some more condition removal, but from the moment that I play warrior as well, I can safely say that the passive defense and multiple control options make the warrior a great addition to any team during team fights, with little more condition removal a balanced warrior would hold his own against anybody in 1vs1

I play both ele and warrior, both with glass cannon spec or balanced spec (for warriors mace/shield + hammer or bow), the glass cannon warrior is definetely easier to use and can last relatively longer than the ele, while dealing more damage overall, the balanced ele is easier to use than the warrior because of regen and healing, still the only advantage is that a balanced ele can fight against anybody with 1vs1 even though he lacks the dmg and control of the warrior counterpart, the latter is said to lack good disengage buttons but given the fact that I can easily get away from any fight even if using a staff or scepter/focus ( hence no rtl), maybe we should assume that warrior simply need a more specific build that nobody has yet discovered

Or we can just assume you need to learn to play your ele better.

Ele glass cannon can still be 0/10/0/30/30. Warrior has nothing on it.

xiv.7136:

Arheundel.6451:

But again we’re comparing a glass cannon warrior to tanky ele with regen/protection boons, I believe we all know that unless you use traits, an ele got no way to access multiple boons at time, basically only 2-3 skills grant boons on their own, for the rest eles need to heavily invest in water/arcana.

Yes , warriors could use some more condition removal, but from the moment that I play warrior as well, I can safely say that the passive defense and multiple control options make the warrior a great addition to any team during team fights, with little more condition removal a balanced warrior would hold his own against anybody in 1vs1

I play both ele and warrior, both with glass cannon spec or balanced spec (for warriors mace/shield + hammer or bow), the glass cannon warrior is definetely easier to use and can last relatively longer than the ele, while dealing more damage overall, the balanced ele is easier to use than the warrior because of regen and healing, still the only advantage is that a balanced ele can fight against anybody with 1vs1 even though he lacks the dmg and control of the warrior counterpart, the latter is said to lack good disengage buttons but given the fact that I can easily get away from any fight even if using a staff or scepter/focus ( hence no rtl), maybe we should assume that warrior simply need a more specific build that nobody has yet discovered

Or we can just assume you need to learn to play your ele better.

Ele glass cannon can still be 0/10/0/30/30. Warrior has nothing on it.

i rarely see glass cannon warriors on top of leader boards. it usually glass cannon d/d ele, guards, or thieves.

like i said, playstyle matters. Warriors have a predictable skill set which mean they have to compensate it with experience and knowledge of other classes. d/d ele, you just have to learn your class and you are already effective

Autumn.8043:

I actually find the Ele easier to play than other professions. class.

Totally agreed.

Ele has a large amount of passive or easily accessed failsafes that make them ignore stuff other classes would otherwise need to carefully and timely deal with.

Protection/Shielding automatically negates big hits that you would otherwise need to timely react to.
Plentiful condition removal, mostly triggered by swapping or in-rotation, allows to basically avoid managing conditions that other classes have to instead do.
Long stability allows to ignore CC that other classes instead need to stunbreak.
Healing up also comes easily and passively from just rolling, your usual rotation and resto signet procs.

Basically you can focus on your rotation (rotation class is pretty easy) and disregard conditions/damage/CC/burst, while applying your CC/damage by simply playing your rotation.

Other classes need to manage all those aspects every second of the fight with more limited tools and hit buttons based on what they actually need to do instead, which takes a whole different level of skill.

xiv.7136:

Having played both, warrior is actually harder to play than ele in PVP/WvW.

There is a lot less room for mistakes, it’s like playing ele without RTL, mistform, flash, and without boons like regen/prot, and without proper condition removal.

Ele’s basically have a ton of headroom for mistakes / recovery. Warrior does not.

Less room for mistakes? Warrior have 2x Endure Pain, more base HP, more armor, shout heals, 3 sec block. Atleast 3 leaps, 1 of them being 1200 range. Warrior have more then enough ways to survive.
On top of this, Warriors can end the fight in a matter of seconds, it would be stupid to give them just as much survivability as the Ele.

Ele’s rely on their boons and condi removal to survive. Without it, they would die faster then NPC’s.

You just can’t say Ele’s have it easier because they got more boons and condi removal. EVERY class mechanic is different, different playstyles. But like I said, that doesn’t mean 1 has a higher skill level then the other.

Red Falcon.8257:

Autumn.8043:

I actually find the Ele easier to play than other professions. class.

Totally agreed.

Ele has a large amount of passive or easily accessed failsafes that make them ignore stuff other classes would otherwise need to carefully and timely deal with.

Protection/Shielding automatically negates big hits that you would otherwise need to timely react to.
Plentiful condition removal, mostly triggered by swapping or in-rotation, allows to basically avoid managing conditions that other classes have to instead do.
Long stability allows to ignore CC that other classes instead need to stunbreak.
Healing up also comes easily and passively from just rolling, your usual rotation and resto signet procs.

Basically you can focus on your rotation (rotation class is pretty easy) and disregard conditions/damage/CC/burst, while applying your CC/damage by simply playing your rotation.

Other classes need to manage all those aspects every second of the fight with more limited tools and hit buttons based on what they actually need to do instead, which takes a whole different level of skill.

Its very obvious that you never actually played an ele before.

Red Falcon.8257:

Totally agreed.

Ele has a large amount of passive or easily accessed failsafes that make them ignore stuff other classes would otherwise need to carefully and timely deal with.

Protection/Shielding automatically negates big hits that you would otherwise need to timely react to.
Plentiful condition removal, mostly triggered by swapping or in-rotation, allows to basically avoid managing conditions that other classes have to instead do.
Long stability allows to ignore CC that other classes instead need to stunbreak.
Healing up also comes easily and passively from just rolling, your usual rotation and resto signet procs.

Basically you can focus on your rotation (rotation class is pretty easy) and disregard conditions/damage/CC/burst, while applying your CC/damage by simply playing your rotation.

Other classes need to manage all those aspects every second of the fight with more limited tools and hit buttons based on what they actually need to do instead, which takes a whole different level of skill.

Agreed, this post speak truth.

Red Falcon.8257:

Autumn.8043:

I actually find the Ele easier to play than other professions. class.

Totally agreed.

Ele has a large amount of passive or easily accessed failsafes that make them ignore stuff other classes would otherwise need to carefully and timely deal with.

Protection/Shielding automatically negates big hits that you would otherwise need to timely react to.
Plentiful condition removal, mostly triggered by swapping or in-rotation, allows to basically avoid managing conditions that other classes have to instead do.
Long stability allows to ignore CC that other classes instead need to stunbreak.
Healing up also comes easily and passively from just rolling, your usual rotation and resto signet procs.

Basically you can focus on your rotation (rotation class is pretty easy) and disregard conditions/damage/CC/burst, while applying your CC/damage by simply playing your rotation.

Other classes need to manage all those aspects every second of the fight with more limited tools and hit buttons based on what they actually need to do instead, which takes a whole different level of skill.

I just love posts like these. Ignorant Ele’s. Just came to t3 EU bracket and fight Drakeco, one the best engi’s this game has to offer, CONDITION build. And see how long your cleansing rotation will work.

The fact that you actually play with rotation pretty much said it all. You either face complete undergeared/lvled scrubs or you just PvE all day.

teg.1340:

Red Falcon.8257:

Autumn.8043:

I actually find the Ele easier to play than other professions. class.

Totally agreed.

Ele has a large amount of passive or easily accessed failsafes that make them ignore stuff other classes would otherwise need to carefully and timely deal with.

Protection/Shielding automatically negates big hits that you would otherwise need to timely react to.
Plentiful condition removal, mostly triggered by swapping or in-rotation, allows to basically avoid managing conditions that other classes have to instead do.
Long stability allows to ignore CC that other classes instead need to stunbreak.
Healing up also comes easily and passively from just rolling, your usual rotation and resto signet procs.

Basically you can focus on your rotation (rotation class is pretty easy) and disregard conditions/damage/CC/burst, while applying your CC/damage by simply playing your rotation.

Other classes need to manage all those aspects every second of the fight with more limited tools and hit buttons based on what they actually need to do instead, which takes a whole different level of skill.

Its very obvious that you never actually played an ele before.

you are right. He is probably plying the most faceroll pve professions which are guard and warrior
My upscalled 35 to 80 level GS/GC warrior is a lot more effective and easy to play on 10- fractals than my 80 ascended/exotic ele. I played an ele for 1000h+ and my warrior for 30h If I could put AR gear on my warr I realy dont need to level him to 80 upscaling is more than enought for hi fractals as warr level 35 (no elite unlocked yet).

Dalo.3941:

xiv.7136:

Having played both, warrior is actually harder to play than ele in PVP/WvW.

There is a lot less room for mistakes, it’s like playing ele without RTL, mistform, flash, and without boons like regen/prot, and without proper condition removal.

Ele’s basically have a ton of headroom for mistakes / recovery. Warrior does not.

Less room for mistakes? Warrior have 2x Endure Pain, more base HP, more armor, shout heals, 3 sec block. Atleast 3 leaps, 1 of them being 1200 range. Warrior have more then enough ways to survive.
On top of this, Warriors can end the fight in a matter of seconds, it would be stupid to give them just as much survivability as the Ele.

Ele’s rely on their boons and condi removal to survive. Without it, they would die faster then NPC’s.

You just can’t say Ele’s have it easier because they got more boons and condi removal. EVERY class mechanic is different, different playstyles. But like I said, that doesn’t mean 1 has a higher skill level then the other.

Ele’s are easier to play in the sense that they allow more mistakes. They have multiple ways to recover, access to protection/regen/heals for sustainability, multiple built-in immunities and mobility, and can shrug off conditions all day long.

Warriors are much, much harder to play since they are predictable, have few options and need to sacrifice all their damage in order to gain mediocre defenses.

This is for PVP obviously, who gives a crap about PVE.

Dalo.3941:

Red Falcon.8257:

Autumn.8043:

I actually find the Ele easier to play than other professions. class.

Totally agreed.

Ele has a large amount of passive or easily accessed failsafes that make them ignore stuff other classes would otherwise need to carefully and timely deal with.

Protection/Shielding automatically negates big hits that you would otherwise need to timely react to.
Plentiful condition removal, mostly triggered by swapping or in-rotation, allows to basically avoid managing conditions that other classes have to instead do.
Long stability allows to ignore CC that other classes instead need to stunbreak.
Healing up also comes easily and passively from just rolling, your usual rotation and resto signet procs.

Basically you can focus on your rotation (rotation class is pretty easy) and disregard conditions/damage/CC/burst, while applying your CC/damage by simply playing your rotation.

Other classes need to manage all those aspects every second of the fight with more limited tools and hit buttons based on what they actually need to do instead, which takes a whole different level of skill.

I just love posts like these. Ignorant Ele’s. Just came to t3 EU bracket and fight Drakeco, one the best engi’s this game has to offer, CONDITION build. And see how long your cleansing rotation will work.

The fact that you actually play with rotation pretty much said it all. You either face complete undergeared/lvled scrubs or you just PvE all day.

Ele is hands down the best class at removing conditions. Every other class has it worse.

Drakeco is in my guild.

xiv.7136:

Dalo.3941:

Red Falcon.8257:

Autumn.8043:

I actually find the Ele easier to play than other professions. class.

Totally agreed.

Ele has a large amount of passive or easily accessed failsafes that make them ignore stuff other classes would otherwise need to carefully and timely deal with.

Protection/Shielding automatically negates big hits that you would otherwise need to timely react to.
Plentiful condition removal, mostly triggered by swapping or in-rotation, allows to basically avoid managing conditions that other classes have to instead do.
Long stability allows to ignore CC that other classes instead need to stunbreak.
Healing up also comes easily and passively from just rolling, your usual rotation and resto signet procs.

Basically you can focus on your rotation (rotation class is pretty easy) and disregard conditions/damage/CC/burst, while applying your CC/damage by simply playing your rotation.

Other classes need to manage all those aspects every second of the fight with more limited tools and hit buttons based on what they actually need to do instead, which takes a whole different level of skill.

I just love posts like these. Ignorant Ele’s. Just came to t3 EU bracket and fight Drakeco, one the best engi’s this game has to offer, CONDITION build. And see how long your cleansing rotation will work.

The fact that you actually play with rotation pretty much said it all. You either face complete undergeared/lvled scrubs or you just PvE all day.

Ele is hands down the best class at removing conditions. Every other class has it worse.

Drakeco is in my guild.

Did I say that warriors have better condition removal?

Good for you.

xiv.7136:

Dalo.3941:

xiv.7136:

Having played both, warrior is actually harder to play than ele in PVP/WvW.

There is a lot less room for mistakes, it’s like playing ele without RTL, mistform, flash, and without boons like regen/prot, and without proper condition removal.

Ele’s basically have a ton of headroom for mistakes / recovery. Warrior does not.

Less room for mistakes? Warrior have 2x Endure Pain, more base HP, more armor, shout heals, 3 sec block. Atleast 3 leaps, 1 of them being 1200 range. Warrior have more then enough ways to survive.
On top of this, Warriors can end the fight in a matter of seconds, it would be stupid to give them just as much survivability as the Ele.

Ele’s rely on their boons and condi removal to survive. Without it, they would die faster then NPC’s.

You just can’t say Ele’s have it easier because they got more boons and condi removal. EVERY class mechanic is different, different playstyles. But like I said, that doesn’t mean 1 has a higher skill level then the other.

Ele’s are easier to play in the sense that they allow more mistakes. They have multiple ways to recover, access to protection/regen/heals for sustainability, multiple built-in immunities and mobility, and can shrug off conditions all day long.

Warriors are much, much harder to play since they are predictable, have few options and need to sacrifice all their damage in order to gain mediocre defenses.

This is for PVP obviously, who gives a crap about PVE.

Ele’s are not predictable, ofcourse. If only we could see in what kind of attunement the Ele is in….

Ele’s are just as predictable as a warrior, if not more.

xiv.7136:

Dalo.3941:

Red Falcon.8257:

Autumn.8043:

I actually find the Ele easier to play than other professions. class.

Totally agreed.

Ele has a large amount of passive or easily accessed failsafes that make them ignore stuff other classes would otherwise need to carefully and timely deal with.

Protection/Shielding automatically negates big hits that you would otherwise need to timely react to.
Plentiful condition removal, mostly triggered by swapping or in-rotation, allows to basically avoid managing conditions that other classes have to instead do.
Long stability allows to ignore CC that other classes instead need to stunbreak.
Healing up also comes easily and passively from just rolling, your usual rotation and resto signet procs.

Basically you can focus on your rotation (rotation class is pretty easy) and disregard conditions/damage/CC/burst, while applying your CC/damage by simply playing your rotation.

Other classes need to manage all those aspects every second of the fight with more limited tools and hit buttons based on what they actually need to do instead, which takes a whole different level of skill.

I just love posts like these. Ignorant Ele’s. Just came to t3 EU bracket and fight Drakeco, one the best engi’s this game has to offer, CONDITION build. And see how long your cleansing rotation will work.

The fact that you actually play with rotation pretty much said it all. You either face complete undergeared/lvled scrubs or you just PvE all day.

Ele is hands down the best class at removing conditions. Every other class has it worse.

Drakeco is in my guild.

Can you tell me where to get drakeco pvp videos. I mean in heart of the mist and etc not WvWvW because i am having problem with finding engineer videos that are not WvWvW.

WvWvW make all classes viable by allowing essential food buffs and other consumables that exponentially boost the performance of the class. This is why all Osicats 1 vs 3 videos have these buffs or else Osicat will never really be able to survive. There isnt enough dps.

loseridoit.2756:

Can you tell me where to get drakeco pvp videos. I mean in heart of the mist and etc not WvWvW because i am having problem with finding engineer videos that are not WvWvW.

WvWvW make all classes viable by allowing essential food buffs and other consumables that exponentially boost the performance of the class. This is why all Osicats 1 vs 3 videos have these buffs or else Osicat will never really be able to survive. There isnt enough dps.

ZvZ is real pvp, not running around the map capping points.

Dalo.3941:

xiv.7136:

Dalo.3941:

xiv.7136:

Having played both, warrior is actually harder to play than ele in PVP/WvW.

There is a lot less room for mistakes, it’s like playing ele without RTL, mistform, flash, and without boons like regen/prot, and without proper condition removal.

Ele’s basically have a ton of headroom for mistakes / recovery. Warrior does not.

Less room for mistakes? Warrior have 2x Endure Pain, more base HP, more armor, shout heals, 3 sec block. Atleast 3 leaps, 1 of them being 1200 range. Warrior have more then enough ways to survive.
On top of this, Warriors can end the fight in a matter of seconds, it would be stupid to give them just as much survivability as the Ele.

Ele’s rely on their boons and condi removal to survive. Without it, they would die faster then NPC’s.

You just can’t say Ele’s have it easier because they got more boons and condi removal. EVERY class mechanic is different, different playstyles. But like I said, that doesn’t mean 1 has a higher skill level then the other.

Ele’s are easier to play in the sense that they allow more mistakes. They have multiple ways to recover, access to protection/regen/heals for sustainability, multiple built-in immunities and mobility, and can shrug off conditions all day long.

Warriors are much, much harder to play since they are predictable, have few options and need to sacrifice all their damage in order to gain mediocre defenses.

This is for PVP obviously, who gives a crap about PVE.

Ele’s are not predictable, ofcourse. If only we could see in what kind of attunement the Ele is in….

Ele’s are just as predictable as a warrior, if not more.

Hitting an ele is not predictable. They can mistform, RTL, catraps, condition removal. Their boons allow them to be tanky. Added to the fact, they have high mobility, so can use obstructions pretty nicely.

On the other hand, the player just keep attacking the warrior and the player is fine for most part. Just dodge the predictable bursts.

haviz.1340:

loseridoit.2756:

Can you tell me where to get drakeco pvp videos. I mean in heart of the mist and etc not WvWvW because i am having problem with finding engineer videos that are not WvWvW.

WvWvW make all classes viable by allowing essential food buffs and other consumables that exponentially boost the performance of the class. This is why all Osicats 1 vs 3 videos have these buffs or else Osicat will never really be able to survive. There isnt enough dps.

ZvZ is real pvp, not running around the map capping points.

True… but stats imbalance cannot be ignored. If wvwvw had pre prepared stats like heart of the mist, then the data can be useful. Osicat hits 700-1k damage (ignoring the added damage with conditions) with wind of choas. I cannot ignore that stat imbalance right there.

xiv.7136:

Arheundel.6451:

But again we’re comparing a glass cannon warrior to tanky ele with regen/protection boons, I believe we all know that unless you use traits, an ele got no way to access multiple boons at time, basically only 2-3 skills grant boons on their own, for the rest eles need to heavily invest in water/arcana.

Yes , warriors could use some more condition removal, but from the moment that I play warrior as well, I can safely say that the passive defense and multiple control options make the warrior a great addition to any team during team fights, with little more condition removal a balanced warrior would hold his own against anybody in 1vs1

I play both ele and warrior, both with glass cannon spec or balanced spec (for warriors mace/shield + hammer or bow), the glass cannon warrior is definetely easier to use and can last relatively longer than the ele, while dealing more damage overall, the balanced ele is easier to use than the warrior because of regen and healing, still the only advantage is that a balanced ele can fight against anybody with 1vs1 even though he lacks the dmg and control of the warrior counterpart, the latter is said to lack good disengage buttons but given the fact that I can easily get away from any fight even if using a staff or scepter/focus ( hence no rtl), maybe we should assume that warrior simply need a more specific build that nobody has yet discovered

Or we can just assume you need to learn to play your ele better.

Ele glass cannon can still be 0/10/0/30/30. Warrior has nothing on it.

Every day I learn something new about ele and there is always somebody better than you , out there.
True, you can use the 0/10/0/30/30 build, but same concept can be applied to warrior, the main differences are the lack of consistent condition removal and ineffective passive healing on healing signet, but the warrior using more or less the same trait set up will have roughly 5k more HP than an ele.

Although on warriors I can go both the vitality route ( 0/10/0/30/30 ) or toughness route ( 0/20/20/0/30), in both cases the warrior possess more base survivability than ele but if we then calculate all the condition damage you need to go through in order to hit something at mele range… a warrior will lose the race np against an ele

The lack of condition removal is a problem which Anet already promised to fix as soon as possible, in the meantime the warrior still deal more damage than ele and this is a fact, the warrior pay this by having less survivability if using a skirmisher playstyle making him less desiderable to eles in the current meta.

While I agree that warrior need more condition removals, we still shouldn’t expect a warrior to have condition removal comparable to ele, that 8k HP difference it’s huge when dealing with multiple conditions, which can be easily re-applied the second you cleanse them.

Arheundel.6451:

xiv.7136:

Arheundel.6451:

But again we’re comparing a glass cannon warrior to tanky ele with regen/protection boons, I believe we all know that unless you use traits, an ele got no way to access multiple boons at time, basically only 2-3 skills grant boons on their own, for the rest eles need to heavily invest in water/arcana.

Yes , warriors could use some more condition removal, but from the moment that I play warrior as well, I can safely say that the passive defense and multiple control options make the warrior a great addition to any team during team fights, with little more condition removal a balanced warrior would hold his own against anybody in 1vs1

I play both ele and warrior, both with glass cannon spec or balanced spec (for warriors mace/shield + hammer or bow), the glass cannon warrior is definetely easier to use and can last relatively longer than the ele, while dealing more damage overall, the balanced ele is easier to use than the warrior because of regen and healing, still the only advantage is that a balanced ele can fight against anybody with 1vs1 even though he lacks the dmg and control of the warrior counterpart, the latter is said to lack good disengage buttons but given the fact that I can easily get away from any fight even if using a staff or scepter/focus ( hence no rtl), maybe we should assume that warrior simply need a more specific build that nobody has yet discovered

Or we can just assume you need to learn to play your ele better.

Ele glass cannon can still be 0/10/0/30/30. Warrior has nothing on it.

Every day I learn something new about ele and there is always somebody better than you , out there.
True, you can use the 0/10/0/30/30 build, but same concept can be applied to warrior, the main differences are the lack of consistent condition removal and ineffective passive healing on healing signet, but the warrior using more or less the same trait set up will have roughly 5k more HP than an ele.

Although on warriors I can go both the vitality route ( 0/10/0/30/30 ) or toughness route ( 0/20/20/0/30), in both cases the warrior possess more base survivability than ele but if we then calculate all the condition damage you need to go through in order to hit something at mele range… a warrior will lose the race np against an ele

The lack of condition removal is a problem which Anet already promised to fix as soon as possible, in the meantime the warrior still deal more damage than ele and this is a fact, the warrior pay this by having less survivability if using a skirmisher playstyle making him less desiderable to eles in the current meta.

While I agree that warrior need more condition removals, we still shouldn’t expect a warrior to have condition removal comparable to ele, that 8k HP difference it’s huge when dealing with multiple conditions, which can be easily re-applied the second you cleanse them.

I really get the feeling you don’t understand how strong ele’s are compared to warriors.

You’re comparing the weakest PVP class with the strongest PVP class.

It’s more than just condition removal.

hello! So as i understood Ele is like Invoker in Dota ?

xiv.7136:

Arheundel.6451:

xiv.7136:

Arheundel.6451:

But again we’re comparing a glass cannon warrior to tanky ele with regen/protection boons, I believe we all know that unless you use traits, an ele got no way to access multiple boons at time, basically only 2-3 skills grant boons on their own, for the rest eles need to heavily invest in water/arcana.

Yes , warriors could use some more condition removal, but from the moment that I play warrior as well, I can safely say that the passive defense and multiple control options make the warrior a great addition to any team during team fights, with little more condition removal a balanced warrior would hold his own against anybody in 1vs1

I play both ele and warrior, both with glass cannon spec or balanced spec (for warriors mace/shield + hammer or bow), the glass cannon warrior is definetely easier to use and can last relatively longer than the ele, while dealing more damage overall, the balanced ele is easier to use than the warrior because of regen and healing, still the only advantage is that a balanced ele can fight against anybody with 1vs1 even though he lacks the dmg and control of the warrior counterpart, the latter is said to lack good disengage buttons but given the fact that I can easily get away from any fight even if using a staff or scepter/focus ( hence no rtl), maybe we should assume that warrior simply need a more specific build that nobody has yet discovered

Or we can just assume you need to learn to play your ele better.

Ele glass cannon can still be 0/10/0/30/30. Warrior has nothing on it.

Every day I learn something new about ele and there is always somebody better than you , out there.
True, you can use the 0/10/0/30/30 build, but same concept can be applied to warrior, the main differences are the lack of consistent condition removal and ineffective passive healing on healing signet, but the warrior using more or less the same trait set up will have roughly 5k more HP than an ele.

Although on warriors I can go both the vitality route ( 0/10/0/30/30 ) or toughness route ( 0/20/20/0/30), in both cases the warrior possess more base survivability than ele but if we then calculate all the condition damage you need to go through in order to hit something at mele range… a warrior will lose the race np against an ele

The lack of condition removal is a problem which Anet already promised to fix as soon as possible, in the meantime the warrior still deal more damage than ele and this is a fact, the warrior pay this by having less survivability if using a skirmisher playstyle making him less desiderable to eles in the current meta.

While I agree that warrior need more condition removals, we still shouldn’t expect a warrior to have condition removal comparable to ele, that 8k HP difference it’s huge when dealing with multiple conditions, which can be easily re-applied the second you cleanse them.

I really get the feeling you don’t understand how strong ele’s are compared to warriors.

You’re comparing the weakest PVP class with the strongest PVP class.

It’s more than just condition removal.

I know but condition removal is a step up. My guild leader warrior is pretty effective against a d/d elemental. I see him maul d/d ele down.

Probably because he fought against me as a cookie cutter shatter mesmer<— muahahhaha

I probably force him to learn about shutdowns and timing tricks. I am such an kitten lol.

I wouldn`t say that ele is an easy class to play, but stating that its the most skilled one is wrong. The only thing you can expect when combining practicality, versatility and great mobility is a really powerful profession.

Yes, the class needs some perfection to be good with it, but hey, which class doesn´t? I mean, if you have a class that practically can do anything, how much skill can one say is involved? Can you say that its 100% skill?

Mentioning that bunker eles have low damage blew my mind. The combination of burning, bleeding, retaliation and aoe power damage results in good damage. As goes for the guardian, which also uses burning, retaliation and aoe power to achieve decent damage as bunker. Even as bunker, probably soldiers, your power is still high, and burning still does great damage without much condition damage. Elementalists are great with combo fields, and d/d can easily stack might without external help.

Like many have said – this isn’t starcraft 2 where you need to practice the mechanics for a significant amount of time before you’re really competitive. Each class is fairly easy to pick up, within a couple hours I had pretty much fully figured out each class I tried in sPvP (all of them) as far as the basics go.

Many of you must be playing the super powerful 30/30/30/30/30 all weapons unlocked version of these classes (ele and warrior specific)

First off you are all over exaggerating. If we look at the fact warrior simply hit harder. All the Base HP in the world wont make up for the lack of variety and condition removal. That being said warrior doesn’t really require you to press the same number of buttons to be effective however, it requires so much more situational awareness that it’s a skill challenge higher then most DD ele rotations.

But lets not forget even in PVT and cleric gear my ele has to keep moving to survive on a warrior I can just face tank it all for easier content. The upper limits of what can be done with an ele far exceed any other class. However, lets not forget it was designed to be a little bit of everything.

We can come here with the ridiculous accusations and other bs but at the end of the day ele gets easier the more you play and so does ever other class out there. So get over it. So many of you forget what it was like to level this kitten before we were informed how strong it could be.

Any for anybody who says ele can DPS stop joking compared to thief or warrior even in your glassiest of cannon your not in the range or those 2 classes not by miles.

Too many facts are off for instance

Spectre.6452:

Mentioning that bunker eles have low damage blew my mind. The combination of burning, bleeding, retaliation and aoe power damage results in good damage. As goes for the guardian, which also uses burning, retaliation and aoe power to achieve decent damage as bunker. Even as bunker, probably soldiers, your power is still high, and burning still does great damage without much condition damage. Elementalists are great with combo fields, and d/d can easily stack might without external help.

Where the hell are you getting retaliation from with Ele?

Say what you want, question here would be, is ele skillcap low? No. Ele skillcap is high.

If you play bunker builds, skillcap is diferent because if you fail you can heal up again.

Yes and no

I have seen a lot of people complaining ingame about elementalist being soo squishy. So there hard to the first time player, but once you find a combo between attunements everything is pretty much easy. To say any class is easy to play is an OPINION cause what is easy to you can be hard for some. I for one suck at any timed jumping puzzles, however my guild mates get them in one try. Everyone is different.

Lazarast.6571:

Say what you want, question here would be, is ele skillcap low? No. Ele skillcap is high.

If you play bunker builds, skillcap is diferent because if you fail you can heal up again.

The problem is not that the elementalist skill cap is high, but the warrior skill skill cap is higher than the elementalist.

Sure, the elementalist have a high skill floor; however, the warrior have to learn about other classes which makes a skill cap higher.

>Sure, the elementalist have a high skill floor;
>however, the warrior have to learn about other
> classes which makes a skill cap higher.

LOL its just funny how ignorat and blind people are…
Basicaly what you said is “Warrior is hard because he has to know ele (which is hard)”

Ofc anyone had to lern about warrior 100b or whirl wind attack, thiefs hs and c&d, necros well etc.
An ele have to know how 100b looks and how to counter it and all eles KNOW it – its mandatory.
Now the time has come that a warrior have to know what ele can do and how to counter it … and you complain that warrior has so high skill cap because he must know how other classes play.

Dude it is obious that you have to know all classes and all the strategies, and all the animations for all races (at least for those most deadly skills).

When you start to play truly competitive you will quickly relize that there is only one skill cap in this game and it is common for all proffesions and it is to KNOW ALL THE PROFFESIONS. When you get there you can start to complain about balnace.
Right now only the best pvp players got to that point.

Lavadiel.6231:

>Sure, the elementalist have a high skill floor;
>however, the warrior have to learn about other
> classes which makes a skill cap higher.

LOL its just funny how ignorat and blind people are…
Basicaly what you said is “Warrior is hard because he has to know ele (which is hard)”

Ofc anyone had to lern about warrior 100b or whirl wind attack, thiefs hs and c&d, necros well etc.
An ele have to know how 100b looks and how to counter it and all eles KNOW it – its mandatory.
Now the time has come that a warrior have to know what ele can do and how to counter it … and you complain that warrior has so high skill cap because he must know how other classes play.

Dude it is obious that you have to know all classes and all the strategies, and all the animations for all races (at least for those most deadly skills).

When you start to play truly competitive you will quickly relize that there is only one skill cap in this game and it is common for all proffesions and it is to KNOW ALL THE PROFFESIONS. When you get there you can start to complain about balnace.
Right now only the best pvp players got to that point.

no, it is more like other classes have much better active defenses while warrior stay naked throughout the time. Warrior are predictable which mean they need more experience with timing. Everybody does not need to know a thing about warriors to be effective against them. Warriors basically have lots of damage and cc abilities. Anyone will know how to be effective against that through regular pvE experience

Of course top tier players knows all classes, but warriors does have a higher skill caps due to the nature of the class. No, easy to learn class =/= easy to pvp class.

If you believe warriors are so easily to play. Just roll a warrior and play. I do not need to prove my point. You should validate it yourself

spvp players rated warriors as the weakest class to play which make encounters harder.

Edit: need to add good info that Engineer is the hardest class to play with the highest skill cap

Eliteseraph.4970:

Easy to play? Yes, sure…..once you understand how the class works, and IF you’re able to reach a point where it becomes natural to swap between all four attunements and track the cooldowns in your head, to use the ability you need when you need it, without having to stop and think about it.

To use a driving analogy: It’s like the difference between an automatic and manual transmission vehicle.

Most classes are like the automatic. Not having to worry about the clutch and shifting, and the RPM of the engine allows them to better focus on other aspects of driving, therefore increasing their overall effectiveness with the vehicle.

The elem is the manual transmission: If you’re able to master the clutch, up-shifting, down-shifting, keeping track of RPMs, etc, you can actually get just a little bit more performance out of the vehicle, even if it otherwise has identical stats to its automatic counterpart. But if you screw up, you’re going to burn the clutch, shift into the wrong gear, or shift at the wrong time or RPM, and end up worse off.

Easy to learn to reach this level of playing the elem? That’s the crux of the matter. For some this will be easy, and feels natural the entire time; from the moment they start playing the class. For others it’s not natural at all, but they can train themselves over time until it does become second nature. And for still others, it just never clicks, ever.

This is true for most classes since they all offer different playstyles, but I think the Elem profession has this problem at a higher magnitude. I think this is why you get such polarized statements like the one from the OP, while others disagree completely.

If only we could get more performance in pve by playing perfectly. the automatic/manual analogy would be great if that was the case.

loseridoit.2756:

Lavadiel.6231:

>Sure, the elementalist have a high skill floor;
>however, the warrior have to learn about other
> classes which makes a skill cap higher.

LOL its just funny how ignorat and blind people are…
Basicaly what you said is “Warrior is hard because he has to know ele (which is hard)”

Ofc anyone had to lern about warrior 100b or whirl wind attack, thiefs hs and c&d, necros well etc.
An ele have to know how 100b looks and how to counter it and all eles KNOW it – its mandatory.
Now the time has come that a warrior have to know what ele can do and how to counter it … and you complain that warrior has so high skill cap because he must know how other classes play.

Dude it is obious that you have to know all classes and all the strategies, and all the animations for all races (at least for those most deadly skills).

When you start to play truly competitive you will quickly relize that there is only one skill cap in this game and it is common for all proffesions and it is to KNOW ALL THE PROFFESIONS. When you get there you can start to complain about balnace.
Right now only the best pvp players got to that point.

no, it is more like other classes have much better active defenses while warrior stay naked throughout the time. Warrior are predictable which mean they need more experience with timing. Everybody does not need to know a thing about warriors to be effective against them. Warriors basically have lots of damage and cc abilities. Anyone will know how to be effective against that through regular pvE experience

Of course top tier players knows all classes, but warriors does have a higher skill caps due to the nature of the class. No, easy to learn class =/= easy to pvp class.

If you believe warriors are so easily to play. Just roll a warrior and play. I do not need to prove my point. You should validate it yourself

spvp players rated warriors as the weakest class to play which make encounters harder.

Edit: need to add good info that Engineer is the hardest class to play with the highest skill cap

I agree with alot of this, the warrior is harder to master because of the nature of the class. I also agree that Engineer takes even more mastering, just because of two things. Alot of buttons, just like elementalist, and a weaker class in general. They are made to be kings of versatility(I know d/d eles are versatile, but engineers versatility is part of the class, not only weapon skills), so they can do alot of different things, but on a weaker level than other classes. Ofc engineer are strong in some ways(CC, denial), but alot of traits and weapons are weaker,

>I agree with alot of this, the warrior is harder to master

GS warrior its very easy to master and very easy to counter which means on higher level pvp he is just bad and that is why sPvp players consider GS wariors to be the worst. Still there are plenty of other weapons for warriors and some ppl already realized that and make good use of them. This class is not fully discovered yet but GS warr already is.

>I also agree that Engineer takes even more mastering

not so sure. They have probably strongest party heal via fields and blasts, best cc and probably best insta burst. Ofc they need at least 300h of gameplay to be average – same as ele.

>so they can do alot of different things,
> but on a weaker level than other classes.

this is ofc true for ele, not for engi who is more specialized profession

This game is still very new and I will say it agan – there is nobody who mastered anything in this game. 95% of the players are one profesion noobs, 4% can play more than 2 proffesions. 1% played many proffesion and to some degree mastered one or 2 professions.
For now imho the best players are Chieftain Ninjas, instead of wasting time on this forum watch their streaming fights and l2p.

Edit:
and ofc after you know how to 1v1 play some proffesion and how to counter other you can strart playing this game as it was designed to play – team vs team. 2v2 or 3v3 fights are hundreds times more complicated than 1v1 – this is where the fun strarts – team play.

Lavadiel.6231:

>I agree with alot of this, the warrior is harder to master

GS warrior its very easy to master and very easy to counter which means on higher level pvp he is just bad and that is why sPvp players consider GS wariors to be the worst. Still there are plenty of other weapons for warriors and some ppl already realized that and make good use of them. This class is not fully discovered yet but GS warr already is.

>I also agree that Engineer takes even more mastering

not so sure. They have probably strongest party heal via fields and blasts, best cc and probably best insta burst. Ofc they need at least 300h of gameplay to be average – same as ele.

>so they can do alot of different things,
> but on a weaker level than other classes.

this is ofc true for ele, not for engi who is more specialized profession

This game is still very new and I will say it agan – there is nobody who mastered anything in this game. 95% of the players are one profesion noobs, 4% can play more than 2 proffesions. 1% played many proffesion and to some degree mastered one or 2 professions.
For now imho the best players are Chieftain Ninjas, instead of wasting time on this forum watch their streaming fights and l2p.

Edit:
and ofc after you know how to 1v1 play some proffesion and how to counter other you can strart playing this game as it was designed to play – team vs team. 2v2 or 3v3 fights are hundreds times more complicated than 1v1 – this is where the fun strarts – team play.

“this is ofc true for ele, not for engi who is more specialized profession "
You are saying Engineer is a specialized profession? Oh god…

Here is a quote from www.Gw2.com:
“Engineers are walking arsenals that carry everything they need to dominate the battlefield”

When it comes to versatility, Engineers are best, as in, they have most options. But the class is weaker by design, Hundred nades is just like Hundred Blades, effective against glasscannons(glass beats glass, but glass doesnt beat a good bunker. This even needs 20 trait points spent in order to work properly, hundred blades works decently without).

I agree that engineer might have awesome party heals, but in order to do that you have to sacrifice utility slots for blast finishers, and it would also take some time and presicion to set up. The ele on the other hand, can just use a few skills without much hassle and heal a decent amount to allies.

Engineers have good CC, it was intended for the class to be amazing area denial experts. As it is now, Guardians with hammer/staff/sanctuary can do that alot better. The reason being that those abilities have an unlimited amount of targets, which means they can stop a huge amount of players without stability.

My point still stands, Engineer takes alot more effort to achieve what others do at ease.

Hekmatyar.8725:

Shocking suggestion!

It’s true they aren’t that hard, but they’re still harder than most professions.

Oh yeah? Try Engineer.

I’m convinced by now that the only bad D/D Ele’s are mongoloid clickers.
That said, most of the people ITT are probably playing the class to an efficient/competent level.
Those Elementalist who are crying that D/D is hard or doesn’t provide adequate -variable- for the cost of being -variable- just need to reroll as a Ranger and auto-attack everything to death, ad nauseum.

emikochan.8504:

If only we could get more performance in pve by playing perfectly. the automatic/manual analogy would be great if that was the case.

Well, quite honestly, you can get more performance by playing perfectly. Unfortunately PvE is much more predictable than PvP, so the effective difference between the manual and automatic transmission is less noticeable. Its far easier for a more simple class to perform extremely well in PvE, since you’re only fighting mindless NPCs.

The analogy mostly applies to PvP, where personal player skill can make a tremendous difference on the outcome of a fight.

Mostly I was just trying to emphasize that elementalist is a class that has a higher degree of potential, but only if a person is able to master the additional complexity of the class to make use of it.

>“this is ofc true for ele, not for engi who is more specialized profession "
>You are saying Engineer is a specialized profession? Oh god…

ofc it is, you even wrote that yourself see bolow

>Here is a quote from www.Gw2.com:
>“Engineers are walking arsenals that carry everything
> they need to dominate the battlefield”

and this is the quote for anet about ele:
“We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.”

>I agree that engineer might have awesome party heals

yes, but he need to specialize for this to be awesome

> but in order to do that you have to sacrifice utility slots for blast finishers,

yes

> The ele on the other hand, can just use a few skills without much hassle

yes, ele has heal almost always, but not as good as specialized engi healer

>Engineers have good CC, it was intended for the class
>to be amazing area denial experts.

yes, they are best at cc, ele and no other profesion will never be as good

>As it is now, Guardians with hammer/staff/sanctuary can do that alot better.
> The reason being that those abilities have an unlimited amount of targets,

guardian is a bugged nup friendly proffesion, totaly OP in pve, pvp, wvw. Anyone looks bad if compared to guardian. This proffesion deserves mega nerf in almost all aspects of the game.

>My point still stands, Engineer takes alot more effort

and my point is that engi is more specialized then ele, you can makea build for perfect cc, perfect heal, insane insta burst etc… you can not make such builds with ele, ele will be always good/average in almost everything but master of none. This my definition of versatility – many options in one particular build – no specialization, and if you specialize ele in something you usualy you will end up with worse build – this is not the case for other professions where “pure X” builds are often better even when they are handicapped they still are so good in this one specialized aspect tht the others do not matters.

For me, I feel the ele is one of the harder classes to learn. But one of the easiest to master. Once you have learned how to stance dance, individual use of the skills is just common sense. Basically, once you have learned how to use the class, there isnt as much room for improvement beyond that.

Classes like the thief, warrior, and guardian are all very, very easy to learn how to play. However, there is a significant amount to learn beyond that. It is comparatively easy to succeed with a low skill level, but there is a lot of room for improvement. Still though, the amount of skill needed to succeed is, on average, less than an ele.

With the ele, once you have turned the stance dance into habit.. thats pretty much it. Using utilities, etc is only secondary to just moving through your attunements. You might be surprised how effective you can be in WvW by literally just hitting 1-2-3-4-5 then switching attunements that are off CD. Then just rinse and repeat. I was a little taken aback when I tested it. I was less effective than when I was carefully picking and choosing what to do and when/where to do it, but it wasnt by nearly as much as I predicted.

In my experience, the hardest classes in this game are the ranger and engineer, with maybe the necro in there as well. They are not particularly hard to learn, but being able to use their skills effectively can take some time and effort to master. These are also the classes that I do believe need some work, but I dont think they are nearly as bad as they are made out to be.

They are more difficult to master, meaning that most will find them utterly ineffective even though they know the basic rotations. The same doesnt really stand true for classes like thieves, warriors, and eles. Its just that the basic rotation is a bit more complex on the ele with the addition of attunement changes.

Still love the ele! But I have to admit, my ranger has been getting much, much more playtime recently. I just feel there is so much to learn and improve on, and I never really felt that way with the ele once I got past switching attunements constantly.

Tuluum.9638:

For me, I feel the ele is one of the harder classes to learn. But one of the easiest to master. Once you have learned how to stance dance, individual use of the skills is just common sense. Basically, once you have learned how to use the class, there isnt as much room for improvement beyond that.

Classes like the thief, warrior, and guardian are all very, very easy to learn how to play. However, there is a significant amount to learn beyond that. It is comparatively easy to succeed with a low skill level, but there is a lot of room for improvement. Still though, the amount of skill needed to succeed is, on average, less than an ele.

With the ele, once you have turned the stance dance into habit.. thats pretty much it. Using utilities, etc is only secondary to just moving through your attunements. You might be surprised how effective you can be in WvW by literally just hitting 1-2-3-4-5 then switching attunements that are off CD. Then just rinse and repeat. I was a little taken aback when I tested it. I was less effective than when I was carefully picking and choosing what to do and when/where to do it, but it wasnt by nearly as much as I predicted.

In my experience, the hardest classes in this game are the ranger and engineer, with maybe the necro in there as well. They are not particularly hard to learn, but being able to use their skills effectively can take some time and effort to master. These are also the classes that I do believe need some work, but I dont think they are nearly as bad as they are made out to be.

They are more difficult to master, meaning that most will find them utterly ineffective even though they know the basic rotations. The same doesnt really stand true for classes like thieves, warriors, and eles. Its just that the basic rotation is a bit more complex on the ele with the addition of attunement changes.

Still love the ele! But I have to admit, my ranger has been getting much, much more playtime recently. I just feel there is so much to learn and improve on, and I never really felt that way with the ele once I got past switching attunements constantly.

This. The elementalist is significantly easier to master. I don’t know that they’re harder to learn though. Most classes have a few different builds that work. Elementalist has one. That takes a lot of the difficulty out of learning a class when you can just say “There is but one effective build, and only slight variations on it; 0/0/10/30/30 with D/D, cantrips, & ether renewal.” Go make a mesmer, go make a warrior, go make a ranger, look at their traits, look at their slot skills. There is no immediate build that jumps off the page at you, and there is actually more than one viable build. If you have your build handed to you, and you’ve got lots of room for error since you’re building a bunker…what’s hard about an elementalist? You just have to learn what your skills do. Once you do that, there’s not a whole lot extra you can add on to that to push yourself over the skillcap wall.

Also, glass cannon ele? Please. Such a thing does not exist, or if it does, it cannot do small skirmishes. Glass cannon ele screams “Hit me once and watch me die.”

You forgot to mention CDs during combat, skill rotations, combos, proper engage and disengage, etc.

Saying a profession has a low skill cap because it lacks build diversity is a pretty bad argument imo. Yes, you have to play less builds but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to know about the other traits/skills. If you want to master your profession you need to know all these things.

Even bunker builds don’t have a lot of room for errors if you play against skilled players. You can kill any bunker within seconds if they don’t know what they are doing. Besides that every build has room for errors.

I do agree about the glass cannon eles though. Currently those builds aren’t that great.