Guild Wars 2

Holy smokies. As a long time ele player, I was shocked to see what an Engi could do, and how similar the class concept was. Then I finished finding the best stats mix. Then I sat dumbfounded for 5m. Not only did my new Engi have double (literally double) the health, the armor was higher, and the power peaked higher. On top of that the Engi has incredi-mode option if using only last 3 trait lines. Still damage reduction + healing is enough using partial toughness/vitality lines that full power or crit is a real option. Heck even a smidgeon of both.

tldr – put down your manic ele gameplay for a year and pick up the real deal – Engi.

But engis don’t have a lot of stab… wait, nevermind.

They don’t have as much aoe heal… er, hold on.

We have better boon upt… something or another.

We have 20 weapon skills!

You are absolutely right. It’s much more fun b/c there are many different viable paths and potential builds (although nades/bombs seem dominant) for engie. You also get to keep having tons of fun with combos, and have even more possibilities b/c of instant kit-swap.

Also, engie really has the ability to have tons of utility, swapping to the right skill/kit on demand. Kits really do fill-in their role really well as opposed to the sometimes conflicting attunement design eles are stuck with.

Eles are still better in wvw group b/c they don’t melt as quick to retal and have more combo fields, but engies out-class them in everything pvp, tbh.

Leuca.5732:

But engis don’t have a lot of stab… wait, nevermind.

They don’t have as much aoe heal… er, hold on.

We have better boon upt… something or another.

We have 20 weapon skills!

Yeah we have 20 weapo… Wait, engineers have kits, so forget that one too.

Engineers are in a better position right now, since they have received alot of buffs. They used to be the underdogs like ele, but worse. They also fit better into todays meta, since they have more offensive conditions to spam as well as good condition removal.

Funny enough this is the exact route I took as well then I mained my ele (I still do main the ele) but for WvW roaming, my engi just seems more survivable, as its defensive and offensive traits just mesh together more fluidly, and the no CD on kit swapping REALLY makes breaking/entering new combo chains really fluid, like an ELE should be able to do too… In zergs I still prefer the ele for its numerous offensive AND defensive utilities with combo fields and massive AoEs, but for roaming, with my engi’s current condi/support tank build it is vastly superior in survivability and dmg spikes (against players anyways) to my ele. If only ele attune switching wasn’t as rigid, I’d have no complaints.

The dedicated support class has better defense than the dedicated DPS class? What a shock.

Everytime I make an alt I always end up coming back to the Ele…… Engi does look like alot of fun though maybe I’ll level one!!

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The dedicated support class has better defense than the dedicated DPS class? What a shock.

Looking back at how Anet balances elementalists, it seems like we are the dedicated support profession

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqiYnvSyF1bJyoCdWoC2HoC5loC53nHvVaBhA-jECBoOBkmGg+AMTqIasVTFRjVdDT9SQWBLpSBAzYA-w

I’ve had an engineer for about 4 months and this is a new engi build I made and have been running for about a week. It’s been doing sickeningly well and I adore it. I tried to stick with ele as it was my beta 1 class and I adored it… but there’s a bit of life advice you can apply here.

Don’t stay in an abusive relationship.

Anet keeps telling Ele they’re beautiful then slapping them once everry 2-4 weeks. Engi is a great alternative and although you feel clunky compared to ele’s smooth fluid motions, I honestly can say I don’t regret it.

Engineer Motto: If you can justify putting points in it, it’s not a waste.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The dedicated support class has better defense than the dedicated DPS class? What a shock.

Ante said a while ago that Ele was more of a support class in their balancing.

morrolan.9608:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The dedicated support class has better defense than the dedicated DPS class? What a shock.

Ante said a while ago that Ele was more of a support class in their balancing.

Really?

Anet

Elementalists have harnessed Tyria’s natural forces. Their powers of destruction are drawn from an affinity with the four elements that make up the world. They conjure air, fire, earth or water to assault their enemies.

Powers of destruction sounds really supportive to me.

Leuca.5732:

Powers of destruction sounds really supportive to me.

Dead stuff dont hit back right? Thats heavy support!

Joke aside, the jack of all trades state of the Elems makes me think of feral druids on vanilla WoW. Thats not a very good place to be!

Lol
“feral druids on vanilla”
Priceless

I will assure you that engis do not have double the base health of elementalists.

“Feral druids of vanilla” is the exact, PERFECT description of Eles right now. Well, except that they were badkitten at soloing.

And I remember every kitten ed patch and every piece of raid gear was geared toward Resto. Crappy, old, no-fun, no-shapeshifting Resto.

Spectre.6452:

Leuca.5732:

But engis don’t have a lot of stab… wait, nevermind.

They don’t have as much aoe heal… er, hold on.

We have better boon upt… something or another.

We have 20 weapon skills!

Yeah we have 20 weapo… Wait, engineers have kits, so forget that one too.

Engineers are in a better position right now, since they have received alot of buffs. They used to be the underdogs like ele, but worse. They also fit better into todays meta, since they have more offensive conditions to spam as well as good condition removal.

we can use legendary weapons

LordByron.8369:

we can use legendary weapons

And back items

Folks, you play the ele cause u like challenges and dont like easy mode. The ele is the hardest class to play so its not surprising that every other class seems OPed or easier or both.

I have each of the profession at lvl 80 and I keep coming back to my ele. It is the most fun class where I dominate all the others in wvw.

I stopped running my Engineer (2k hours) in dungeons because Ele is a higher DPS and a more fun class.

I run my Ele in zergs where staff is useful, and anti-siege is necessary. When I roam, I run engineer, specifically a condition-tank build, because it’s more my style for small scale pvp.

You guys wanna make comparisons, specify the game mode, and try to create a productive conversation about it, instead of just hyperbole.

Here’s your sign. Both untraited with Steady weapons.

Spectre.6452:

good condition removal.

Unless you trait into elixirs, engi condition removal is terrible

ImProVocateur.5189:

Here’s your sign. Both untraited with Steady weapons.

Hey now, that ele has a zerk jewel and the engi is running soldiers. Harder to compare the two with pvp “over the top” stat boosting trinkets.

I play both regulary, and both are fun. But its a lot of misinformation here imho.

• Besides grenade spam (I don’t know who like this, maybe warrior players) and Static discharge, there are no viable power builds. Engineers excel at condition bombing, but thats it.
• Elixier spam is like grenades spam. ground targeting over and over again. Maybe its just me, but…..
• a huge part of engineers core mechanic (turrets) is completely broken since Beta.
• some kits are questionable and many traits are broken.
• Ele DPS is by far higher than engineers.
• Build Diversity is the worst of all professions imho.

sure, thats my 2c. Don’t get me wrong, i really love my charr blood legion engineer, but imho its by far the profession in the game that needs more love.

Berengar.6951:

Spectre.6452:

good condition removal.

Unless you trait into elixirs, engi condition removal is terrible

I’d debate that it’s no more terrible than Ele’s condi removal without water. The viable options are pretty good. Viable for options for Ele are nowhere close to engineering counterparts. OH dagger on a 40 sec cd is the most reliable thing we’ve got, as the focus needs a lot of work in spite of its actually really good condi removal. Engi doesn’t get any favors in their weapon skills, but the utility skills they have are strong, especially keeping in mind they also all have powerful tool belt abilities. Healing Turret, Med Kit can clear up conditions on much better cooldowns. Elixir Gun destroys conditions and has a wonderful little stun break heal. Elixir C is comparable to Cleansing Fire but can also be tossed for an AoE removal. If I wanted to put together a build without water or alchemy, I’d much rather have my condition removal in engineering’s hands than ele’s. Just for the healing skills alone.

blutstein.2468:

I play both regulary, and both are fun. But its a lot of misinformation here imho.

• Besides grenade spam (I don’t know who like this, maybe warrior players) and Static discharge, there are no viable power builds. Engineers excel at condition bombing, but thats it.
• Elixier spam is like grenades spam. ground targeting over and over again. Maybe its just me, but…..
• a huge part of engineers core mechanic (turrets) is completely broken since Beta.
• some kits are questionable and many traits are broken.
• Ele DPS is by far higher than engineers.
• Build Diversity is the worst of all professions imho.

sure, thats my 2c. Don’t get me wrong, i really love my charr blood legion engineer, but imho its by far the profession in the game that needs more love.

For PvE I agree, PvP/WvW disagree. Both definitely need love.

On the subject of build diversity, that’s being greatly threatened for eles in December. The backwards idea of making splash-worthy (mandatory) abilities higher on the trait chain means else essentially have to dedicate an additional 10 skill points to those trait chains to fill the gaps in their setup. Of course, engineering’s also facing some significant restrictions.

I digress. Clearly the only solution is to make a social dating website where engineers and elementalists can meet.

Oniyui.8279:

Berengar.6951:

Spectre.6452:

good condition removal.

Unless you trait into elixirs, engi condition removal is terrible

I’d debate that it’s no more terrible than Ele’s condi removal without water. The viable options are pretty good. Viable for options for Ele are nowhere close to engineering counterparts. OH dagger on a 40 sec cd is the most reliable thing we’ve got, as the focus needs a lot of work in spite of its actually really good condi removal. Engi doesn’t get any favors in their weapon skills, but the utility skills they have are strong, especially keeping in mind they also all have powerful tool belt abilities. Healing Turret, Med Kit can clear up conditions on much better cooldowns. Elixir Gun destroys conditions and has a wonderful little stun break heal. Elixir C is comparable to Cleansing Fire but can also be tossed for an AoE removal. If I wanted to put together a build without water or alchemy, I’d much rather have my condition removal in engineering’s hands than ele’s. Just for the healing skills alone.

ya…. ether renewal

Med kit removes 1 condition on 15 second cooldown (and can’t remove immobilize)

Turret removes 2 on 15 second cooldown (though usually 20 since in pvp you usually explode it for the area heal instead of picking it up)

Ether renewal removes up to 8 on 15 second cooldown.

SaintSnow.6593:

ImProVocateur.5189:

Here’s your sign. Both untraited with Steady weapons.

Hey now, that ele has a zerk jewel and the engi is running soldiers. Harder to compare the two with pvp “over the top” stat boosting trinkets.

Are you saying that a Soldier amulet overpowers a Berserker amulet? Your statement does not make sense. The amulets are balanced.

The Ele needs crit to do enough damage with all their (nerfed) direct damage heavy skills. That is where the kill damage comes from. The Engi does not need crit because of their toolset, and their conditions do not need more Condition Damage or Condition Duration than what is given in the traits. Additionally, raising toughness and vitality “accentuates the positive”, since Engi survivability augmented through traits is tank-worthy.

You are looking at pictures of two builds that are supposed to counter each other. There is a problem with the current design. Anyone with experience playing both classes can look at the numbers and tell that it is broken.

ImProVocateur.5189:

SaintSnow.6593:

ImProVocateur.5189:

Here’s your sign. Both untraited with Steady weapons.

Hey now, that ele has a zerk jewel and the engi is running soldiers. Harder to compare the two with pvp “over the top” stat boosting trinkets.

Are you saying that a Soldier amulet overpowers a Berserker amulet? Your statement does not make sense. The amulets are balanced.

The Ele needs crit to do enough damage with all their (nerfed) direct damage heavy skills. That is where the kill damage comes from. The Engi does not need crit because of their toolset, and their conditions do not need more Condition Damage or Condition Duration than what is given in the traits. Additionally, raising toughness and vitality “accentuates the positive”, since Engi survivability augmented through traits is tank-worthy.

You are looking at pictures of two builds that are supposed to counter each other. There is a problem with the current design. Anyone with experience playing both classes can look at the numbers and tell that it is broken.

Complete rubbish. You can’t compare stats when you’ve built for specifics. To say “look at my low hp!” when you’ve got 35% crit vs. the engi’s 4% is misleading. Why even mention both having steady weapons if you’re not going to compare apples to apples? And to say that engis don’t need crit for a power build is wrong, and to say they don’t need condi damage in a condition build is even more wrong.

ImProVocateur.5189:

Not only did my new Engi have double (literally double) the health, the armor was higher, and the power peaked higher.

Noticed the same thing, however I didn’t find my engineer doing much more damage or being much more survivable than my staff ele. At least for PvE that was. In fact, keeping my engineer alive was a lot tougher than it was on my ele.