Guild Wars 2

It made sense at the start, but with powercreep, everyone getting new aoe/healing ranged abilities

I don’t see why were already at a disadvantage in every template and fights having lowest armour and lowest hps.

Armour have little to no impact in the game. Toughness which everyone can build is what matter in the end.

As for HP, the elementalist have an average effective health pool. Which mean that despite their low inate health pool, their ability to mitigate damage and refile this health pool is high enough for him to have effectively as much HP than the other professions.

Tempest have the potential to survive bathing for an extented time in lava if traited and geared correctly, what more HP would you need than that?

It’s harsh to say it but this kind of thread is probably the very kind of thread that could lead Anet to release an e-spec with a GM trait that grant 300 vitality and that nobody will ever use. Just like the guardian’s trait force of will.

Ok regarding armour, but in the current game is our ability to mitigate damage/refill better than anyone elses?

phaeris.7604:

Ok regarding armour, but in the current game is our ability to mitigate damage/refill better than anyone elses?

Yes… very much so…

How can ele have an average hp pull when its the lowest in the game. Health pools are only effective if you have high def boons like protection and blut dmg -% (as there not condi -% on ele its a purely anty power effective hp pool).

Ele is a mages it should have lowest hp and def but it should be doing THE best dmg in the game. Dmg is very lacking for ele in both condi and power and a major lack of anty dmg mitigation of boon strips and unblockables. The problem is all the other classes do too much dmg for there hp / def as well as there anty dmg mitigation has been stack on the non mages classes for “reason.”

Staff ele should be the end all be all aoe dmg scepter ele should be the end all be all signal target dmg. Dagger should be the all in risk reward wepon. Non of this is true atm.

Jski.6180:

How can ele have an average hp pull when its the lowest in the game. Health pools are only effective if you have high def boons like protection and blut dmg -% (as there not condi -% on ele its a purely anty power effective hp pool).

Ele is a mages it should have lowest hp and def but it should be doing THE best dmg in the game. Dmg is very lacking for ele in both condi and power and a major lack of anty dmg mitigation of boon strips and unblockables. The problem is all the other classes do too much dmg for there hp / def as well as there anty dmg mitigation has been stack on the non mages classes for “reason.”

Staff ele should be the end all be all aoe dmg scepter ele should be the end all be all signal target dmg. Dagger should be the all in risk reward wepon. Non of this is true atm.

That’s because you seem to lack a proper understanding how how the elementalist works. Unlike most classes, our weapon choice doesn’t determine our AoE or ST effectiveness… they determine our range and attack rate. Dagger’s are for Ele’s who want to be close range and attack fast, Scepter is for mid rage average attack rate, and Staff is for long range but slower attacks… over all the damage output of all 3 is mostly on par with eachother in both AoE and ST. Out Attunements on the other hand affect our AoE and ST effectiveness. Fire and Earth are strong on AoE while Air is strong on ST… Water tends to be balanced between the two and more focused on healing anyways… Earth has a strong focus on defensive powers as well.

As a result, an elementalist that actually understands how to best utilize their attunements does in fact have a rather high effective HP. Utilizing damage mitigation from Earth and healing from Water to provide a rather sizable health buffer to counter the fact that our HP is the lowest in the game.

Panda.1967:

Jski.6180:

How can ele have an average hp pull when its the lowest in the game. Health pools are only effective if you have high def boons like protection and blut dmg -% (as there not condi -% on ele its a purely anty power effective hp pool).

Ele is a mages it should have lowest hp and def but it should be doing THE best dmg in the game. Dmg is very lacking for ele in both condi and power and a major lack of anty dmg mitigation of boon strips and unblockables. The problem is all the other classes do too much dmg for there hp / def as well as there anty dmg mitigation has been stack on the non mages classes for “reason.”

Staff ele should be the end all be all aoe dmg scepter ele should be the end all be all signal target dmg. Dagger should be the all in risk reward wepon. Non of this is true atm.

That’s because you seem to lack a proper understanding how how the elementalist works. Unlike most classes, our weapon choice doesn’t determine our AoE or ST effectiveness… they determine our range and attack rate. Dagger’s are for Ele’s who want to be close range and attack fast, Scepter is for mid rage average attack rate, and Staff is for long range but slower attacks… over all the damage output of all 3 is mostly on par with eachother in both AoE and ST. Out Attunements on the other hand affect our AoE and ST effectiveness. Fire and Earth are strong on AoE while Air is strong on ST… Water tends to be balanced between the two and more focused on healing anyways… Earth has a strong focus on defensive powers as well.

As a result, an elementalist that actually understands how to best utilize their attunements does in fact have a rather high effective HP. Utilizing damage mitigation from Earth and healing from Water to provide a rather sizable health buffer to counter the fact that our HP is the lowest in the game.

Ok.. So what is it that dagger who are melee to near melee ranged on a mages class who has low hp and def? Why should the risk be greater but reward lower for an mages class to in close then say a war who can do better dmg over all and last longer AND have the chose of getting a ranged attk? Ele is a mage right why would dagger make them giving up there ranged dmg and over all reward?

Scepter is a pure burst dmg wepon who happens to have a big dmg aoe hit phoenixes. Its also ele’s true condi dmg wepon.

Staff is its aoe control weapons with some slow attks that do not hit all that hard.

Your living in a dream if you cant see these real problems for a mages class who has the lowest hp and def but also has some of the worst dmg choose in the game.

Your argument seems to think ele is able to use all of its weapons and atuments at the same time. Your locked into one wepon and one atument at a time. Focese may have great anty dmg but it means nothing if you do not have one equipped. Having ranged attks on scepter and staff maybe great but it means nothing if you have a dagger main hand. I want you to ask your self when in wvw and your d/x ele what do you do when you come up to an objective at what point is it ok for the mages class to be unable to deal with things at a ranged and your melee or solders class are able to swap from melee to ranged on the fly. And lets not get into to having REAL dmg in that tools to deal with dmg mitigation of both counter boons and blocks.

Jski.6180:

Panda.1967:

Jski.6180:

How can ele have an average hp pull when its the lowest in the game. Health pools are only effective if you have high def boons like protection and blut dmg -% (as there not condi -% on ele its a purely anty power effective hp pool).

Ele is a mages it should have lowest hp and def but it should be doing THE best dmg in the game. Dmg is very lacking for ele in both condi and power and a major lack of anty dmg mitigation of boon strips and unblockables. The problem is all the other classes do too much dmg for there hp / def as well as there anty dmg mitigation has been stack on the non mages classes for “reason.”

Staff ele should be the end all be all aoe dmg scepter ele should be the end all be all signal target dmg. Dagger should be the all in risk reward wepon. Non of this is true atm.

That’s because you seem to lack a proper understanding how how the elementalist works. Unlike most classes, our weapon choice doesn’t determine our AoE or ST effectiveness… they determine our range and attack rate. Dagger’s are for Ele’s who want to be close range and attack fast, Scepter is for mid rage average attack rate, and Staff is for long range but slower attacks… over all the damage output of all 3 is mostly on par with eachother in both AoE and ST. Out Attunements on the other hand affect our AoE and ST effectiveness. Fire and Earth are strong on AoE while Air is strong on ST… Water tends to be balanced between the two and more focused on healing anyways… Earth has a strong focus on defensive powers as well.

As a result, an elementalist that actually understands how to best utilize their attunements does in fact have a rather high effective HP. Utilizing damage mitigation from Earth and healing from Water to provide a rather sizable health buffer to counter the fact that our HP is the lowest in the game.

Ok.. So what is it that dagger who are melee to near melee ranged on a mages class who has low hp and def? Why should the risk be greater but reward lower for an mages class to in close then say a war who can do better dmg over all and last longer AND have the chose of getting a ranged attk? Ele is a mage right why would dagger make them giving up there ranged dmg and over all reward?

Scepter is a pure burst dmg wepon who happens to have a big dmg aoe hit phoenixes. Its also ele’s true condi dmg wepon.

Staff is its aoe control weapons with some slow attks that do not hit all that hard.

Your living in a dream if you cant see these real problems for a mages class who has the lowest hp and def but also has some of the worst dmg choose in the game.

Your argument seems to think ele is able to use all of its weapons and atuments at the same time. Your locked into one wepon and one atument at a time. Focese may have great anty dmg but it means nothing if you do not have one equipped. Having ranged attks on scepter and staff maybe great but it means nothing if you have a dagger main hand. I want you to ask your self when in wvw and your d/x ele what do you do when you come up to an objective at what point is it ok for the mages class to be unable to deal with things at a ranged and your melee or solders class are able to swap from melee to ranged on the fly. And lets not get into to having REAL dmg in that tools to deal with dmg mitigation of both counter boons and blocks.

You’re jumping to conclusions quite a bit there. I never said we can use them all at the same time. I said our choice of weapon only really affects our attack range and speed. Staff actually does hit fairly hard, and so does Dagger which also hits very fast. Dagger also has the highest mobility out of all elementalist weapons with Burning Speed, Ride the Lightning, Updraft, and even Magnetic Leap if you have a target.

As for attunements, nothing is locking you into only ever using one attunement, sure you can only have one active at a time, but you can switch between them freely. In fact, elementalists are SUPPOSED TO DO THIS! Sure if you are running Tempest, you’re more restricted due to singularity… but honestly that’s a fault of the elite spec not the class.

If I were in WvW using D/x I’d take Conjure Frost Bow with me… and last I checked you can use Magnetic Leap to get to enemies on walls, it just might take some effort.

@Panda.1967

Well most of that is wrong. Scpter hits faster with its auto, most of the dagger and staff skills hit low dmg compared to classes like war and thf even ranger. Staff has realty good mobility oddly due to burning retreat. I would not call having to run off hand dagger for most of the mobility of main hand dagger a fair thing to say (scpter/dagger has nearly the same mobility as d/d).

The point i am trying to make is that atuments lock you into a type of skills. You cant burn out side of fire and you cant heal that well outside of water unlike weapons for other classes they end to have cover all moves having both a power hit condi hit and def skills. That is ok its just there no reason for it if your in fire you realty do not do more dmg then other classes you simply do the SAME if not less dmg and that a major balancing problem. If your in fire you give up a lot of def tools and all your getting back in dmg = to that of other classes who are giving up nothing.

Conjure weapons are a joke for the most part and you cant leap on to walls….

Your giving a free pass to nearly all the classes in the game but the ele class who has the lowest def and hp in the game. Ele is a mages and as a mages it should have the lowest def / hp in the game but it should have the best dmg in the game and nothing you have said proves that. A lot of classes hit faster and harder they even have far better mobility and active def. The only thing ele has now is its healing and even that is something you can pull off with other classes. As things stand ele is nearly a non class.

Jski.6180:

@Panda.1967

Well most of that is wrong. Scpter hits faster with its auto, most of the dagger and staff skills hit low dmg compared to classes like war and thf even ranger. Staff has realty good mobility oddly due to burning retreat. I would not call having to run off hand dagger for most of the mobility of main hand dagger a fair thing to say (scpter/dagger has nearly the same mobility as d/d).

The point i am trying to make is that atuments lock you into a type of skills. You cant burn out side of fire and you cant heal that well outside of water unlike weapons for other classes they end to have cover all moves having both a power hit condi hit and def skills. That is ok its just there no reason for it if your in fire you realty do not do more dmg then other classes you simply do the SAME if not less dmg and that a major balancing problem. If your in fire you give up a lot of def tools and all your getting back in dmg = to that of other classes who are giving up nothing.

Conjure weapons are a joke for the most part and you cant leap on to walls….

Your giving a free pass to nearly all the classes in the game but the ele class who has the lowest def and hp in the game. Ele is a mages and as a mages it should have the lowest def / hp in the game but it should have the best dmg in the game and nothing you have said proves that. A lot of classes hit faster and harder they even have far better mobility and active def. The only thing ele has now is its healing and even that is something you can pull off with other classes. As things stand ele is nearly a non class.

and that goes right back to my earlier statement… you lack a proper understanding of how the elementalist works. Unlike other classes who have the capacity to do multiple things but must be focus built into each category… an elementalist has the ability to fill multiple roles at any given moment. We may not have the highest damage, strongest crowd control, best healing, or even the highest sustain… but we do have the highest versatility. Elementalists are by design the most versatile class in the game.

The Tempest elite spec allows you to focus more in one area or another, but at the end of the day you’re still more versatile than anyone else. Even without tempest you can still focus build towards one area over another for some fairly impressive damage outputs or even some extraordinary healing… but you do so knowing that you’re versatility will keep you from being on equal ground with other classes in that area.

Panda.1967:

Jski.6180:

@Panda.1967

Well most of that is wrong. Scpter hits faster with its auto, most of the dagger and staff skills hit low dmg compared to classes like war and thf even ranger. Staff has realty good mobility oddly due to burning retreat. I would not call having to run off hand dagger for most of the mobility of main hand dagger a fair thing to say (scpter/dagger has nearly the same mobility as d/d).

The point i am trying to make is that atuments lock you into a type of skills. You cant burn out side of fire and you cant heal that well outside of water unlike weapons for other classes they end to have cover all moves having both a power hit condi hit and def skills. That is ok its just there no reason for it if your in fire you realty do not do more dmg then other classes you simply do the SAME if not less dmg and that a major balancing problem. If your in fire you give up a lot of def tools and all your getting back in dmg = to that of other classes who are giving up nothing.

Conjure weapons are a joke for the most part and you cant leap on to walls….

Your giving a free pass to nearly all the classes in the game but the ele class who has the lowest def and hp in the game. Ele is a mages and as a mages it should have the lowest def / hp in the game but it should have the best dmg in the game and nothing you have said proves that. A lot of classes hit faster and harder they even have far better mobility and active def. The only thing ele has now is its healing and even that is something you can pull off with other classes. As things stand ele is nearly a non class.

and that goes right back to my earlier statement… you lack a proper understanding of how the elementalist works. Unlike other classes who have the capacity to do multiple things but must be focus built into each category… an elementalist has the ability to fill multiple roles at any given moment. We may not have the highest damage, strongest crowd control, best healing, or even the highest sustain… but we do have the highest versatility. Elementalists are by design the most versatile class in the game.

The Tempest elite spec allows you to focus more in one area or another, but at the end of the day you’re still more versatile than anyone else. Even without tempest you can still focus build towards one area over another for some fairly impressive damage outputs or even some extraordinary healing… but you do so knowing that you’re versatility will keep you from being on equal ground with other classes in that area.

That the thing it realty cant fill more then one roll because GW2 was a game made for not filling rolls so most classes are very much able to do every thing all the time. Now with HoT they tried push rolls and they did as tempest has made ele into mostly a support with a tack on dmg effect (sadly the only thing that makes it viable in raids). Ele in its 4 atuments is simply another class in gw2 it just cant do them all at the same time unlike other classes who have the ability to do every thing at any time.

If any thing ele is the least versatile class in gw2. It may of been some what able to do every thing when the game first came out but a lot of that has been watered down by adding more effects to other classes and out right nerfing what ele has as a class.

And the worst thing though all the changes to the class of ele armor and hp has been left unchanged for the most part. Out of all the dmg added and buffs to condi dmg hp for players has stayed the same. Back when your only stacking condis where confusion and bleeds and there was no torment. Gw2 is an incomplete game where part of it has been left with no real fixes and other parts have been adding more and more. A lot of skills are still bast off of the first build of the game that made them so out dated that they tie into effects that use to be there but no longer are such as channeled effects from ele and buffs for using though channeled effects Zephyr’s Focus and Obsidian Focus.

You could even talk about crafting crits from wvw buffs and hp +% that are in the game yet do not effect the game at all. There so many things that were taken out or simply left with out updating them to the game we have now. Mist form use to have a chill on it frost bow use to have a reg on it if you build for it.

@Jski : The elementalist do not have an average health pool, the elementalist have an average effective HP pool. The most of this effective health pool lie in all the mitigation tools freely available through weapon, traits and utility. I think the real issue of the player with the elementalist is more that they have to dance between all the mitigation tools than the low health pool. This is a learn to play issue.

Tempest did more damage to the elementalist player base than anything. Why? Not because of the so called “powercreep” but because most player adapted to the slow rythm of the tempest induced by the overload. This fact effectively weakened the ability of most player to dance between attunment and use their tools to protect themself efficiently.

You could even talk about crafting crits from wvw buffs and hp +% that are in the game yet do not effect the game at all.

This still work, however this is mostly interesting when you are low level since crafting crit mainly give you more experience from a succesfull crit. It’s usefull for leveling up both your character and it’s craft.

Dadnir.5038:

Armour have little to no impact in the game. Toughness which everyone can build is what matter in the end.

As for HP, the elementalist have an average effective health pool. Which mean that despite their low inate health pool, their ability to mitigate damage and refile this health pool is high enough for him to have effectively as much HP than the other professions.

Tempest have the potential to survive bathing for an extented time in lava if traited and geared correctly, what more HP would you need than that?

The low inate health pool will matter when you are facing burst attacks.

With an ele, you better have prot or invul when burst comes your way because you won’t be bouncing back from insta down so easily (12k life pool is not hard to 100-0 for many). If you have a high inherant life pool, these kind of attacks are a lot more forgiving when you are taken with your pants down.

We have tons of mitigation, but it requires action and awareness. And the effective health pool, will vary a lot depending on your build. An auramancer is pretty tanky, but a tempest/fire/air with scholar runes not so much.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The low innate health pool will matter when you are facing burst attacks.

This is exactly what I see is wrong with including healing when determining effective hp. If you can heal a certain amount of hp over time, which any of the heals in this game can be broken down into, you’re going to have to consider how much damage is being inflicted over time instead of as one lump sum. Even a glass build with no healing or supportive traits can be said to have infinite effective hp when up against low incoming damage by just using one heal over and over, but a burst would show the build only has about 14k effective hp without any mitigation besides the defense provided by its light armour.

Does an ele have a lot of ways to recover from damage it’s already taken? Of course it does, even more if it’s built for that purpose, but don’t include that sustain with its effective hp.

Finally, to address the OP, I do think eles lack defense in the current state of gw2. I doubt there will be any changes to address that until the next expansion is released, but I really hope they’ll be in the form of nerfs to overperforming builds and traits, not buffs. There’s been far too much power creep.

See today update and tell me why dose anet leave ele with the lowest hp / def in the game?

Jski.6180:

See today update and tell me why dose anet leave ele with the lowest hp / def in the game?

Because we don’t have the lowest defense in the game. We are actually pretty high in defense when you know how to play the class. They even nerfed our defensive uptime in PvP because it was too effective. People who know how to play elementalist could keep defenses up almost endlessly.

Panda.1967:

Jski.6180:

See today update and tell me why dose anet leave ele with the lowest hp / def in the game?

Because we don’t have the lowest defense in the game. We are actually pretty high in defense when you know how to play the class. They even nerfed our defensive uptime in PvP because it was too effective. People who know how to play elementalist could keep defenses up almost endlessly.

Because ele the ONLY class with protection? Also because power dmg did not just get a major nerf and protection works so well vs condis?

Its simple and for something you can say for all classes condis have been given major buffs but hp for classes are the same as if the condis have not be buffed. If you change one thing but not the other your causing problems so classes with the least hp suffer the worst.

Well for wvw 1v1 and ele can still win Scepter air ele core, fire ele cele 30% to 65% mix with zerker or cleric or some viper or Earth cele ele core mix with power or condi runes.

The issues is ele can do ok but we can’t face roll the kitten out of people. Every class has an instance OMG no defense but absolute condi or power troll burst but ele doesn’t have that. They have to do the dodge roll chain spike and run like crazy or dodge stab combo burn/blind stab stab stab. You have to do like 7-9 executions to equal another professions 2-3 simple attacks.

You have to work harder…. and you kinda support teams but you can say the same thing as everyone else. The key thing is next expansion the sword ele code name dervish, or Zetsuen No Tempest but they took sword from us last year and gave us a war horn lol. I even post gifs from Zetsuen No Tempest and I believe that’s where they took the name. I hope for a happy bunny hopping good time with dual swords. Don’t mess it up! I mean give us a fun name …… just take something mainstream like Celestial, Battle Mage or just give us a great elite like Megumin’s EXPLOSION!!!!