[Feedback] The real problem with Air Magic...

[Feedback] The real problem with Air Magic...

in Elementalist

Posted by: Neko.9021

Neko.9021

… is the instant burst of Scepter Fresh Air Eles in sPvP.

Listen, I understand why Air Magic has been… changed, in this manner. I see where the the devs are coming from. While Scepter Fresh Air Eles aren’t particularly meta in sPvP, the ability of such an Ele to instantaneously deal damage is very strong, and if done correctly, lacks much counterplay.

So the devs nerfed the damage in Air Magic. No more Bolt to the Heart + Air Training + Fresh Air.

The problem is you guys have totally wrecked the damage for all Eles investing in Air and hoping to use Air for damage.

And the damage isn’t even a problem! If you actually had a chance to mitigate or heal some of that damage, you wouldn’t always get completely wrecked each time a Scepter Fresh Air Ele managed to get a full combo off on you.

The problem is the speed at which Scepter Fresh Air Eles deal damage in sPvP. It’s instant. Combined with double-proccing sigils, the instant damage was too much.

But rather than nerf all damage for Eles, why not consider the alternative – remove the uncounterable aspect of Lightning Strike. Give it a slight pause so that a player has an opportunity to dodge before getting hit. The cast can be instant, but a telegraph – let’s say a lightning cloud – could appear above the player to indicate that damage is about to come.

This would be a great way to reduce the uncounterable, instant aspect of Scepter Fresh Air Ele burst in sPvP, without completely derailing damage-oriented Eles that want to invest in what should otherwise be a damage-oriented tree.

[Feedback] The real problem with Air Magic...

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

The only reason they have such a large burst is b/c phoenix has only 0.25s cast-time, and possible arcane skills (blast/bolt). Arcane skills should keep MUCH lower damage (like 10% of the damage) and MUCH lower CDs (like kitten so they keep their flavor as finishers while removing the instant burst.

With the lightning strikes, air barely keeps up with other autos. You aren’t killing anyone with only lightning strikes…you have to hit that phoenix. The only targets you can take out with only lightning strikes are super-squishy targets who can burst you from stealth (larger burst, more frequently, with less counterplay).

Also, nerf air/fire sigils (a problem across the board). The lightning strikes aren’t where all the damage comes from, and are really your only chance against things like mesmers/thieves who have VERY short windows of vulnerability.

[Feedback] The real problem with Air Magic...

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Posted by: ResJudicator.7916

ResJudicator.7916

Fresh air does its damage in spurts, with low sustain damage in between. The overall sustained DPS is actually not that great for a pure glass build (compared to, say, shatter mesmer or panic strike thief), and it’s super reliant on landing perfect phoenixes.

Attacking someone as a fresh air ele works out kind of like this:
(1) Opening phoenix+lf+air burst, which is like crashing into someone with a car.
(2) Autoattacks. Which is like getting out of your car to tickle that person.
(3) Airburst. Which is like punching the guy.
(4) More autoattacks. Back to tickling, because punching is too violent.
(5) Airburst. Then back to tickling. Then another airburst. Then back to tickling.
(6) Repeat.

Most other DPS classes spread their DPS out more evenly, so they can’t take out 80-100% of someone’s health in one fell swoop (except mesmers if you get a perfect interrupt → 25 stacks of vuln → mirror blade → shatter). But their overall sustained pressure is also a lot higher. For example, power ranger and thief autoattacks do like 3x the DPS of air1.

So the simple solution seems to be upping the sustained damage of fresh air while reducing the burst.

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Posted by: Sizer.5632

Sizer.5632

Imo, the “real” problem isnt fresh air in pvp, it was the fact that eles did so much damage in pve that no other classes were ever needed, except to give eles buffs, which lead to anyone on a necro/mesmer/ranger/ect. being almost instakicked from groups (I know only bad pugs do this, but its still something that got complained about a lot)

Seriously, if air attunement is being “nerfed” specifically for one part of the game, its the one where groups typically run 2-3 eles per party (pve), not the ones where people barely ever run them except for cele/bunker specs (wvw + pvp) who didnt even spec into air in the first place.

The fact that conjures are being nerfed at the same time makes this seem even more likely, though its all still just a guess.

Borolis Pass – [TOVL]
Aeneaaa – 80 engineer
Aeeneaa – 80 Ele

[Feedback] The real problem with Air Magic...

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Posted by: Alphard.6529

Alphard.6529

Imo, the “real” problem isnt fresh air in pvp, it was the fact that eles did so much damage in pve that no other classes were ever needed

Except for the fact that they are buffing the build that “did so much damage in pve that no other classes were ever needed” (staff), and nerfing dagger builds, which were never all that great at dps (except for having ice bow/LH).

[KING] Alpha Cas

(edited by Alphard.6529)

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Posted by: Titanimite.2534

Titanimite.2534

Imo, the “real” problem isnt fresh air in pvp, it was the fact that eles did so much damage in pve that no other classes were ever needed, except to give eles buffs, which lead to anyone on a necro/mesmer/ranger/ect. being almost instakicked from groups (I know only bad pugs do this, but its still something that got complained about a lot)

Seriously, if air attunement is being “nerfed” specifically for one part of the game, its the one where groups typically run 2-3 eles per party (pve), not the ones where people barely ever run them except for cele/bunker specs (wvw + pvp) who didnt even spec into air in the first place.

The fact that conjures are being nerfed at the same time makes this seem even more likely, though its all still just a guess.

This isn’t the problem at all. While it is true this is because of the large hit boxes for bosses and the fact that Icestorm for example will hit many many many times on a boss like the TA boss for example. It’s more like shooting off 5 icestorms instead of just one. This is an extreme example but this is the case for most bosses.

The reason Necro/Mesmer/Ranger/Engi are kicked from groups is not because Ele’s need more buffs to do damage although this is nice for everyone. It is because these classes do not have much to provide to the group in terms of support be that damage, reflects, condi cleanse, damage buffs, etc and need a buff in this area to be viable. Also this list is honestly just limited to Necromancer only.

Thief honestly does very high damage to rival an Elementalist and beat it even with its own Icebow. You could just as easily bring 1 Guardian and 4 Thieves and melt bosses just as fast or faster in some cases. It just so happens that Elementalist is mindless to play with a Staff build and it has great burst due to the broken hit boxes and the 25 vuln cap that it can reach with the buffed Lightning Storm so there is no reason to bring other classes.

Personally two friends of mine and myself carry pugs daily through different dungeons and we don’t care who joins. However, if they keep making changes like this is going to keep lowering damage and it will push players to kick classes that are worse by nature as damage will be more and more important.

(edited by Titanimite.2534)