Because it’s become so much more predictable. Used to be you could stack up 10s+ of burning with a good drake’s breath and have alot of time to play around and bait the enemy into eating a fire grab. Now that burning doesn’t stack duration it’s just so obvious when you’re going to be trying for grabs, especially because any build that relies on fire grabs is going to be a power build and won’t really make use of +Burning Duration.
Either buff the hitbox to include a 120 radius pbAoE, or significantly improve the payoff for actually landing one. I much prefer the first option, as it’s very counter-intuitive to have fire grab be easier to land from 200 range away than it is when you’re actually touching your opponent.
1) burning itself is already borderline op right now so even without firegrab it’s worth applying
2) a clever player will use drake’s breath and wait for the opponents reaction. If the opponent dodges away, let him eat your burning speed. If not, use firegrab. So even if you don’t even use firegrab, drake’s breath will be the setup for a good amount of burst damage.
3) with 8 seconds attunement cooldown and -33% fire cooldowns + traits like gaining fire aura when attuning to fire, there are several different options to apply burning before using firegrab.
The 8s cooldown is a myth that has been debunked multiple times. It’s 8.7 + 1.3 = 10s. Without Arcana it’s 11.5s.
Wait, what? The 1.3 applies to the 8.7? I haven’t noticed that…. so we are still with the 10s cooldown…. wow…. wow…. another slap in the face of the elementalist.
1) burning itself is already borderline op right now so even without firegrab it’s worth applying
Yeah… there’s no borderline there, its twice as effective as any other condition, and four times more effective than bleeding, a condition which is its exact mechanical duplicate. It kicked the borders butt and built itself a nice little home on the far side of the line.
That said, if it does get nerfed, bleeding needs to be buffed.
1) burning itself is already borderline op right now so even without firegrab it’s worth applying
2) a clever player will use drake’s breath and wait for the opponents reaction. If the opponent dodges away, let him eat your burning speed. If not, use firegrab. So even if you don’t even use firegrab, drake’s breath will be the setup for a good amount of burst damage.
3) with 8 seconds attunement cooldown and -33% fire cooldowns + traits like gaining fire aura when attuning to fire, there are several different options to apply burning before using firegrab.
1: This is about firegrab not about burning. The zerker builds that need to land fire grabs are getting maybe 100 dps out of burning.
2: If you want to talk about drakes breath how about we assume your opponent will not be horrible at this game and just face trade your drakes breath with a burst/interrupt. DB is incredibly low DPS in a power build compared to your other options anyways. It’s fine that its strong on cele/condi builds but again, this is about fire grabs and the niche that fire grab should fit into (power burst builds) so try to look at things from that perspective. There is no class that will not win the trade over your DB by just sitting in it and blowing you up as you channel, and every good opponent knows this.
3: You’re not even making sense anymore. Nothing on a weapon skill will even apply burning outside of fire attunement so the attunement CD doesn’t matter either way. 33% CD is nice but doesn’t do anything for you in any given scenario, only further encourages you to build cele so you can roll through more cooldown rotations and run the opponenet out of options through repetition instead of skilled play.
I don’t see you talking about the problem at hand at all really. Fire grab was already dealing with a finicky hitbox and only got harder to land. It’s not as if zerker burst was doing well on d/d, and even s/d eschews fire grab for phoenix when it can. There’s no reason not to improve the grab or its hitbox.
The 8s cooldown is a myth that has been debunked multiple times. It’s 8.7 + 1.3 = 10s. Without Arcana it’s 11.5s.
What does the global cooldown have to do with how fast you can go back to fire once you leave it ??? :S
Global icd is there so you dont spam all 4 att instantly..once you leave an attunement the recharge is exactly as much as it says at that time which is a bit less than 9 sec..1.5 extra sec is if you swap to another (not fire) attunement while fire has already recharged..but at that point you pretty much chose to delay your fire rotation anyway.
got hit 12K by firegrab today, so I think it’s plenty fine.
This kind of “i got rekt” anecdotal evidence hinges on the assumption that you, the rekt, were playing well yet still suffered said rekage because the object of discussion is strong, not weak.
got hit 12K by firegrab today, so I think it’s plenty fine.
This kind of “i got rekt” anecdotal evidence hinges on the assumption that you, the rekt, were playing well yet still suffered said rekage because the object of discussion is strong, not weak.
See if you can spot the gap in your logic here.
Since you have no clue about the situation and how it happened, I don’t think you can assume anything nor claim there’s any logic in your statement. I was 1v2, got stun chained and there was no way for me to avoid it. The point is that the skill hits this insanely hard, so I do not think there should be any changes to it.
The off hand dagger era is gone, focus has taken over. Which makes me kind of sad… If they would just do something about Churning Earth taking 10000000000 years to cast I would be happy.
As for fire grab, I think the hit box could maybe be slightly larger and thats about it.
Also nerf burning please, it needs a cap in pvp, like 10 or 15 perhaps?
got hit 12K by firegrab today, so I think it’s plenty fine.
This kind of “i got rekt” anecdotal evidence hinges on the assumption that you, the rekt, were playing well yet still suffered said rekage because the object of discussion is strong, not weak.
See if you can spot the gap in your logic here.
The point is that the skill hits this insanely hard, so I do not think there should be any changes to it.
…
Sounds like you and the ANet balance team would get along really well.
got hit 12K by firegrab today, so I think it’s plenty fine.
This kind of “i got rekt” anecdotal evidence hinges on the assumption that you, the rekt, were playing well yet still suffered said rekage because the object of discussion is strong, not weak.
See if you can spot the gap in your logic here.
The point is that the skill hits this insanely hard, so I do not think there should be any changes to it.
…
Sounds like you and the ANet balance team would get along really well.
So you basically want a high damage skill to be easy to land and your argument is? If you actually suggested lowering the damage AND making it easier to hit, okay.
got hit 12K by firegrab today, so I think it’s plenty fine.
This kind of “i got rekt” anecdotal evidence hinges on the assumption that you, the rekt, were playing well yet still suffered said rekage because the object of discussion is strong, not weak.
See if you can spot the gap in your logic here.
The point is that the skill hits this insanely hard, so I do not think there should be any changes to it.
…
Sounds like you and the ANet balance team would get along really well.
So you basically want a high damage skill to be easy to land and your argument is? If you actually suggested lowering the damage AND making it easier to hit, okay.
To get these numbers you need to be stunned or knocked down, below 50% hp, have vuln and burning on you, and the ele needs to swap into water attunement and tag you with the worst hitbox on any skill. Then the skill goes on a 40 second CD.
For a thief to get the same numbers literally all he has to do is walk through you and press 1. Then three seconds later he gets to try again. And the thief is the one with more active defense.
You’re just being willfully blind if you aren’t seeing that fire grab is one of the most pointlessly conditional hits in the game.
So you basically want a high damage skill to be easy to land and your argument is? If you actually suggested lowering the damage AND making it easier to hit, okay.
It’s not just a high damage skill. It’s a high damage skill that requires setup in order to land the high damage.
So you basically want a high damage skill to be easy to land and your argument is? If you actually suggested lowering the damage AND making it easier to hit, okay.
It’s not just a high damage skill. It’s a high damage skill that requires setup in order to land the high damage.
And that’s how it should stay. I don’t get why it should be easy to hit high damage skills. Because it would actually take some thinking about the game?
So you basically want a high damage skill to be easy to land and your argument is? If you actually suggested lowering the damage AND making it easier to hit, okay.
It’s not just a high damage skill. It’s a high damage skill that requires setup in order to land the high damage.
And that’s how it should stay. I don’t get why it should be easy to hit high damage skills. Because it would actually take some thinking about the game?
You’re misinterpreting. You’re assuming that a high damage skill should be hard just for the sake of it being high damage. What is being said is that its awkward to use, not hard to use. Trying to manipulate weird hitbox mechanics isn’t skillful play.
Phoenix is a high damage skill that takes setup to land. But there’s no weirdness with the spell’s area of effect. It hits where you tell it to hit, as we expect of all of our spells.
Fire Grab’s area of effect is weird, so attempting to use it is telegraphed. And now that we have an even smaller window to use it in, that problem is multiplied.
So you basically want a high damage skill to be easy to land and your argument is? If you actually suggested lowering the damage AND making it easier to hit, okay.
It’s not just a high damage skill. It’s a high damage skill that requires setup in order to land the high damage.
And that’s how it should stay. I don’t get why it should be easy to hit high damage skills. Because it would actually take some thinking about the game?
You’re misinterpreting. You’re assuming that a high damage skill should be hard just for the sake of it being high damage. What is being said is that its awkward to use, not hard to use. Trying to manipulate weird hitbox mechanics isn’t skillful play.
Phoenix is a high damage skill that takes setup to land. But there’s no weirdness with the spell’s area of effect. It hits where you tell it to hit, as we expect of all of our spells.
Fire Grab’s area of effect is weird, so attempting to use it is telegraphed. And now that we have an even smaller window to use it in, that problem is multiplied.
That’s maybe because I’ve never had any issues with using Fire Grab? I really don’t think it’s that ‘’weird to hit’’ as you’re claiming. And I never said the skill needs to be hard to hit just for the sake of it, but I honestly believe Fire Grab is fine the way it is. Also, there’s quite a lot weirdness to Phoenix quite a lot of times.
That’s maybe because I’ve never had any issues with using Fire Grab? I really don’t think it’s that ‘’weird to hit’’ as you’re claiming. And I never said the skill needs to be hard to hit just for the sake of it, but I honestly believe Fire Grab is fine the way it is.
/signed
Fire grab is perfectly fine and does not need a compensation buff. It’s a l2p issue.
what would be nice is if they added a little targeting option like ground targets that showed a green cone coming out of you so people actually knew what the hit box was. then after using it a few times they could probably turn on fast cast option again and forget about it because they would actually know the dimensions of the spell.
what would be nice is if they added a little targeting option like ground targets that showed a green cone coming out of you so people actually knew what the hit box was. then after using it a few times they could probably turn on fast cast option again and forget about it because they would actually know the dimensions of the spell.
what would be nice is if they added a little targeting option like ground targets that showed a green cone coming out of you so people actually knew what the hit box was. then after using it a few times they could probably turn on fast cast option again and forget about it because they would actually know the dimensions of the spell.
The problem is that I don’t think it’s actually a cone. That, or it fails to lag too often in PvP.
If someone is right in your face (typically a Thief) and you Fire Grab them, sometimes it doesn’t hit them. It’s like a cone that doesn’t start at your character, but a little bit away from it.
The 8s cooldown is a myth that has been debunked multiple times. It’s 8.7 + 1.3 = 10s. Without Arcana it’s 11.5s.
What? No, that’s the myth… Swapping out of an attune gives a 1.5 sec GCD to 2 attunements, the one you swap into has no counter, and the one you leave starts only it’s standard cooldown. The ONLY way you will every hit that 10 second situation is if you swap to a different attunement RIGHT as the first comes off of cooldown…
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
If people would actually read the post they’d find that its not about the hitbox being strange at all. Is it strange that its easier to land a “grab” from the edge of melee range than it is when you’re actually touching your opponent? Sure, but that’s always been an oddity of the skill. The problem that the new patch introduced was increasing the predictability of timing this ability, while not improving the payoff at all.
So I suggested improving the strange hitbox as a way to reduce predictability. If you could just have a touch radius pbAoE hitbox, then not only would it fit the theme of the skill better but you would be able to land it reliably as you run through or around your enemy, opening new and less easily readable ways to use the skill. Unfortunately some people then tried to turn this into a “hitbox fine as is” thing, which it never was. I can land the current hitbox just fine. The point is that if it were a better hitbox there would be more ways to land it, and therefore more ways to bait your opponent into eating one.
If people would actually read the post they’d find that its not about the hitbox being strange at all. Is it strange that its easier to land a “grab” from the edge of melee range than it is when you’re actually touching your opponent? Sure, but that’s always been an oddity of the skill. The problem that the new patch introduced was increasing the predictability of timing this ability, while not improving the payoff at all.
.
You can’t use fire grab if not close to enemy. [In that way when stealth enemy will come, you will know cuz skill will be avaible to press].
Change landing dimension from edge of meele range to start of charracter meele range.
Would be that a solve?
Damage-wise and cooldown-wise (especially with the 33% cd reduction from fire now) Firegrab is fine I think.
But I’d love for it to have some other condition besides burning for it to do it’s full damage. Now with burns no longer stacking duration (and everyone packing lots of condi removal) it can be quite hard to still have burns on the enemy when you can land a firegrab.
Maybe something like “does full damage below 50% enemy health” or “does full damage as long as enemy has at least 1 condition on them” would be nice IMHO.
I guess it’s the fact firegrab is AE damage as well that makes them afraid to buff it. Maybe use cleansing fire right before since it is instant and will burn everyone near you. If you trait for it you will even get some extra might stacks from it too ^^ Sadly they are both almost the same CD too
Damage-wise and cooldown-wise (especially with the 33% cd reduction from fire now) Firegrab is fine I think.
But I’d love for it to have some other condition besides burning for it to do it’s full damage. Now with burns no longer stacking duration (and everyone packing lots of condi removal) it can be quite hard to still have burns on the enemy when you can land a firegrab.
Maybe something like “does full damage below 50% enemy health” or “does full damage as long as enemy has at least 1 condition on them” would be nice IMHO.
A heartseeker-esque modifier on top of the burn conditional would be good. There’s no reason it shouldnt just end you if you get hit with it while you’re on fire and under say 33% HP, but this happens already and realistically would just be overkill. On the other hand the any-condition thing would basically equate to always given the amount of passive vuln and long duration bleeds you throw out passively with weak spot or EA.
I’d rather this be about changing the hitbox and thereby raising the number of options you have to play into it, than just bumping the damage.
