Guild Wars 2

We’re back to April 2014 situation : teams running double cele ele because of high might stacking and this time it’s even easier than before :burning fire + one with fire and you reach 25 stacks of might easily.

What do you propose to tone down the fire line, these two traits in particular?

Personally I don’t even know anymore how anet wants to handle eles…..every time it seems they’re happy with slapping few OP traits and then say :“job done”…

Btw the empowering flame bug , the one that gives 150 power to ele permanently regardless of him being n fire or not, is still not fixed and this add salt to the injury

-edit- On a side note , if burning get nerfed drastically, I don’t think a nerf on might would even be necessary, sure the ele would still hit relatively hard but that would be it

Well, if it requires TWO ele for that, then its fine. If one was enough it would be pve breaker indeed. ( …. oh wait right now pve can’t be broken since its not even finished :o)

i think whats crazy is how fire line synergies the high might stacks with burning. Playing cele before we got sustained damage overall from power and condi, but nothing too amazing. Now might stacking helps us stack 2k+ burning ticks on a target making it feel like drakes breath does more damage than burning speed for me.

Maybe when they change how burning damage works, the fire line will normalize as you said.

Everyone and their mother now does too much damage with ele being one of the minor offenders here.

And IMHO the biggest offender here anyway are the strength runes which give a quite insane 45% might duration. Same for balthazar runes, 45% burn duration seems way too generous.

Without all the added might duration it wouldn’t be realistically possible in pvp situations to stack so much might so fast and long.

If burning itself gets nerfed too hard eles (and guards) will be left without a viable condition build again, like it was for 3 years before this patch. And that’s not what should happen.

Mattmatt.4962:

Well, if it requires TWO ele for that, then its fine. If one was enough it would be pve breaker indeed. ( …. oh wait right now pve can’t be broken since its not even finished :o)

Every single d/d or d/f ele with any specs can stack 25 might on their own.

Edit: I just can’t type.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Everyone and their mother now does too much damage with ele being one of the minor offenders here.

And IMHO the biggest offender here anyway are the strength runes which give a quite insane 45% might duration. Same for balthazar runes, 45% burn duration seems way too generous.

Without all the added might duration it wouldn’t be realistically possible in pvp situations to stack so much might so fast and long.

If burning itself gets nerfed too hard eles (and guards) will be left without a viable condition build again, like it was for 3 years before this patch. And that’s not what should happen.

you’re trying to deflect where the blame belongs (the elementalist profession itself) to avoid a nerf to where is needed. no other profession with or without strength runes can stack 25 stacks of might by themselves and have a remotely viable build. this is not an issue caused by runes. this is an issue caused by a profession that has ridiculous access to the strongest condition in the game, ridiculous might stacking ability, compounded with ridiculous survivability all in one completely viable build for literally any situation:
celestial ele.

elementalist isn’t a “minor offender.” it’s the main offender. it’s pretty much unbeatable in 1v1s if played by a wood log, let alone a competent player. it’s teamfighting superiority is also arguably second to none in terms of single-player value. so until ele gets much deserved nerfs to traitlines or weapon skills and burning damage is considerably toned down, yes, you are the main offenders.

sinject.4607:

you’re trying to deflect where the blame belongs (the elementalist profession itself) to avoid a nerf to where is needed. no other profession with or without strength runes can stack 25 stacks of might by themselves and have a remotely viable build.

Have you seen Guardians recently? They burn for more and faster than eles…

sinject.4607:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Everyone and their mother now does too much damage with ele being one of the minor offenders here.

And IMHO the biggest offender here anyway are the strength runes which give a quite insane 45% might duration. Same for balthazar runes, 45% burn duration seems way too generous.

Without all the added might duration it wouldn’t be realistically possible in pvp situations to stack so much might so fast and long.

If burning itself gets nerfed too hard eles (and guards) will be left without a viable condition build again, like it was for 3 years before this patch. And that’s not what should happen.

you’re trying to deflect where the blame belongs (the elementalist profession itself) to avoid a nerf to where is needed. no other profession with or without strength runes can stack 25 stacks of might by themselves and have a remotely viable build. this is not an issue caused by runes. this is an issue caused by a profession that has ridiculous access to the strongest condition in the game, ridiculous might stacking ability, compounded with ridiculous survivability all in one completely viable build for literally any situation:
celestial ele.

elementalist isn’t a “minor offender.” it’s the main offender. it’s pretty much unbeatable in 1v1s if played by a wood log, let alone a competent player. it’s teamfighting superiority is also arguably second to none in terms of single-player value. so until ele gets much deserved nerfs to traitlines or weapon skills and burning damage is considerably toned down, yes, you are the main offenders.

I’m pretty sure a condi engineer with runes of aristocracy can stack 25 stacks of might in a viable build with bombs or flamethrower with firearms trait lines+alchemy. Necro’s shouldn’t have to much of an issue getting close to 25 stacks with a signet build and blood is power.

If a D/D ele has gone into fire they have lost a lot of survivability by not traiting into earth. That hardly makes them invincible in a 1v1 setting, it actually makes them fairly squishy for a cele build. Unless you are constantly running across firefields they don’t have nearly the access to burning you are claiming.

People are running double eles because everything else explodes in picoseconds. Yesterday we had a bunker guard in Esl cup.

If you do D/F ele with the fire traits the extra fire aura can easily get you over 20 stacks of might on your own.

Still if you just have two eles sitting at 25 might, which is even easier with a bunker guard that still won’t be enough to kill other eles and bunker guards in a reasonable timeframe. Hence shatter mesmer, the ultimate +1.

Edit: Also to +1 add zerk rampage warriors and marauder elixer x RNG Engis, THE NEW META!

Hmmm, after 3 years fire line finally isn’t trash and is actually viable in pvp so people want it nerfed. Who else saw this coming? Burn does need to be nerfed, but that isnt an ele only problem. What ele can do is absolutely nothing compared to what i can do on engi or guardian with burns. So yes, as the guy above said, ele IS the most minor offender in this.

nearlight.3064:

If you do D/F ele with the fire traits the extra fire aura can easily get you over 20 stacks of might on your own.

Still if you just have two eles sitting at 25 might, which is even easier with a bunker guard that still won’t be enough to kill other eles and bunker guards in a reasonable timeframe. Hence shatter mesmer, the ultimate +1.

Edit: Also to +1 add zerk rampage warriors and marauder elixer x RNG Engis, THE NEW META!

Man I have to agree with the shatter Mesmer remark! I’ve done so well holding a point with my ele vs maybe 1 or 2 other decent damage dealers until a shatter Mesmer decides to roll through and basically insta gib me. Everyone should have a shatter Mesmer on their team.

Also if a d/d or d/f ele is taking the fire trait line their defense is significantly diminished since they’ll more than likely be dropping either the water or earth trait line. Blinding Ashes isn’t usually very effective in a real spvp match so don’t anyone even go there.

One with fire is probably the biggest offender because we can get a LOT of fire auras pretty fast. I propose that instead of the trait adding 2 might on fire aura use it should give Fire Aura upon casting a signet.

It isn’t really fire line that is the problem…it is all the sustain from arcana/water. Water gives access to too much condi clear alone, and all of the heals on swapping to water (from swap + evasive arcana dodge-roll) just stack too well. In fact, the ele is pretty much balanced around having both…pigeon-holing them.

So how do we fix it? Nerf the traits, buff the utilities:

- Nerf healing from healing ripple and evasive arcana dodge. These have no cast time and honestly lack counterplay.
- Move some of the cleanse options out of water into other lines. A great choice would be moving “stop, drop, and roll” to the fire line. This cuts down on the marriage to water lines for just about ANY condi cleanse.
- Reduce protection durations from elemental attunement and contingency.
- Decrease the CD’s of defensive skills and utilities drastically. Skills such as water trident and cleansing wave (dagger 5 in water) should have much lower CD’s to make up for lost healing from traits. These sources are interruptible.

Many eles are getting by with not running arcana or water, though most builds seem to have one or the other. Remember focus has earth 4 which is not interruptable and removes 3 conditions every 17 seconds traited. Earth+hoelbrak are why people feel more comfortable forgoing arcana or water.

Grimreaper.5370:

nearlight.3064:

If you do D/F ele with the fire traits the extra fire aura can easily get you over 20 stacks of might on your own.

Still if you just have two eles sitting at 25 might, which is even easier with a bunker guard that still won’t be enough to kill other eles and bunker guards in a reasonable timeframe. Hence shatter mesmer, the ultimate +1.

Edit: Also to +1 add zerk rampage warriors and marauder elixer x RNG Engis, THE NEW META!

Man I have to agree with the shatter Mesmer remark! I’ve done so well holding a point with my ele vs maybe 1 or 2 other decent damage dealers until a shatter Mesmer decides to roll through and basically insta gib me. Everyone should have a shatter Mesmer on their team.

Also if a d/d or d/f ele is taking the fire trait line their defense is significantly diminished since they’ll more than likely be dropping either the water or earth trait line. Blinding Ashes isn’t usually very effective in a real spvp match so don’t anyone even go there.

They’ll take fire, water, and arcane. Earth really isn’t ideal for d/d or d/f because it offers only marginally increased defense but no damage. Its taken for staff builds that are rez focused and for some d/d builds that want to fulfill a more bunkerish role for their team. Fire offers a lot more damage simply because the might stacking is alot better. With earth d/d you’re usually at 10-15 stacks most of the time, with fire and d/f, you’ll generally have 20-25 stacks. It also makes celestial HGH engi look like gutter trash by comparision.

Blinding Ashes isn’t as bad as it seems. Blind is good and powerful damage mitigation, especially when fighting necros and warriors, which in the past have been very good against ele 1v1. It may seem weak, but thats because you only really proc it when you’re in fire, but every bit of damage mitigation helps, and there aren’t any better traits to take in the GM tier in my opinion.

BlackBeard.2873:

It isn’t really fire line that is the problem…it is all the sustain from arcana/water. Water gives access to too much condi clear alone, and all of the heals on swapping to water (from swap + evasive arcana dodge-roll) just stack too well. In fact, the ele is pretty much balanced around having both…pigeon-holing them.

So how do we fix it? Nerf the traits, buff the utilities:

- Nerf healing from healing ripple and evasive arcana dodge. These have no cast time and honestly lack counterplay.
- Move some of the cleanse options out of water into other lines. A great choice would be moving “stop, drop, and roll” to the fire line. This cuts down on the marriage to water lines for just about ANY condi cleanse.
- Reduce protection durations from elemental attunement and contingency.
- Decrease the CD’s of defensive skills and utilities drastically. Skills such as water trident and cleansing wave (dagger 5 in water) should have much lower CD’s to make up for lost healing from traits. These sources are interruptible.

Nerfing healing ripple is really a no no, I can live with the rest…just not touch healing ripple, furthermore the protection boon is of fundamental importance for eles, generally speaking the sustain of ele is more than fine and the must remain in the current state to keep up with the power creep of other professions.

All I was suggesting is to reduce might stacking…but now I’m not even that sure anymore, burning does need a small shave but that’s it, as the time pass I realize what other professions are capable of. The power creep of other professions cannot be underestimated

nearlight.3064:

Grimreaper.5370:

nearlight.3064:

If you do D/F ele with the fire traits the extra fire aura can easily get you over 20 stacks of might on your own.

Still if you just have two eles sitting at 25 might, which is even easier with a bunker guard that still won’t be enough to kill other eles and bunker guards in a reasonable timeframe. Hence shatter mesmer, the ultimate +1.

Edit: Also to +1 add zerk rampage warriors and marauder elixer x RNG Engis, THE NEW META!

Man I have to agree with the shatter Mesmer remark! I’ve done so well holding a point with my ele vs maybe 1 or 2 other decent damage dealers until a shatter Mesmer decides to roll through and basically insta gib me. Everyone should have a shatter Mesmer on their team.

Also if a d/d or d/f ele is taking the fire trait line their defense is significantly diminished since they’ll more than likely be dropping either the water or earth trait line. Blinding Ashes isn’t usually very effective in a real spvp match so don’t anyone even go there.

They’ll take fire, water, and arcane. Earth really isn’t ideal for d/d or d/f because it offers only marginally increased defense but no damage. Its taken for staff builds that are rez focused and for some d/d builds that want to fulfill a more bunkerish role for their team. Fire offers a lot more damage simply because the might stacking is alot better. With earth d/d you’re usually at 10-15 stacks most of the time, with fire and d/f, you’ll generally have 20-25 stacks. It also makes celestial HGH engi look like gutter trash by comparision.

Blinding Ashes isn’t as bad as it seems. Blind is good and powerful damage mitigation, especially when fighting necros and warriors, which in the past have been very good against ele 1v1. It may seem weak, but thats because you only really proc it when you’re in fire, but every bit of damage mitigation helps, and there aren’t any better traits to take in the GM tier in my opinion.

If you don’t think d/f should take the earth line you are well misinformed on how insanely strong that trait line can be combined with focus. Earth is MORE ideal for focus off hand users than water. Also I didn’t say blinding ashes was bad, I use blinding ashes trait when I think I’ll be doing a lot of 1v1 in an spvp match. (When I fight pubs because they’re usually bad) You know nothing john snow, persisting flames is a great fire GM trait too, amazing for team play.

Might stacking with the fire trait line at hand is not the main culprit of too much damage coming out of d/d or d/f. Here are some factors you should rather look into.

1.) 150 additional power ontop of another 150(when in fire, totaling 300 power when in fire) is being given to people who take the fire line which was not intended. its a bug.

2.) Burning isn’t balanced as of now.

Both of these things are due for a change soon, no need to worry any further.

Grimreaper.5370:

nearlight.3064:

Grimreaper.5370:

nearlight.3064:

If you do D/F ele with the fire traits the extra fire aura can easily get you over 20 stacks of might on your own.

Still if you just have two eles sitting at 25 might, which is even easier with a bunker guard that still won’t be enough to kill other eles and bunker guards in a reasonable timeframe. Hence shatter mesmer, the ultimate +1.

Edit: Also to +1 add zerk rampage warriors and marauder elixer x RNG Engis, THE NEW META!

Man I have to agree with the shatter Mesmer remark! I’ve done so well holding a point with my ele vs maybe 1 or 2 other decent damage dealers until a shatter Mesmer decides to roll through and basically insta gib me. Everyone should have a shatter Mesmer on their team.

Also if a d/d or d/f ele is taking the fire trait line their defense is significantly diminished since they’ll more than likely be dropping either the water or earth trait line. Blinding Ashes isn’t usually very effective in a real spvp match so don’t anyone even go there.

They’ll take fire, water, and arcane. Earth really isn’t ideal for d/d or d/f because it offers only marginally increased defense but no damage. Its taken for staff builds that are rez focused and for some d/d builds that want to fulfill a more bunkerish role for their team. Fire offers a lot more damage simply because the might stacking is alot better. With earth d/d you’re usually at 10-15 stacks most of the time, with fire and d/f, you’ll generally have 20-25 stacks. It also makes celestial HGH engi look like gutter trash by comparision.

Blinding Ashes isn’t as bad as it seems. Blind is good and powerful damage mitigation, especially when fighting necros and warriors, which in the past have been very good against ele 1v1. It may seem weak, but thats because you only really proc it when you’re in fire, but every bit of damage mitigation helps, and there aren’t any better traits to take in the GM tier in my opinion.

If you don’t think d/f should take the earth line you are well misinformed on how insanely strong that trait line can be combined with focus. Earth is MORE ideal for focus off hand users than water. Also I didn’t say blinding ashes was bad, I use blinding ashes trait when I think I’ll be doing a lot of 1v1 in an spvp match. (When I fight pubs because they’re usually bad) You know nothing john snow, persisting flames is a great fire GM trait too, amazing for team play.

Might stacking with the fire trait line at hand is not the main culprit of too much damage coming out of d/d or d/f. Here are some factors you should rather look into.

1.) 150 additional power ontop of another 150(when in fire, totaling 300 power when in fire) is being given to people who take the fire line which was not intended. its a bug.

2.) Burning isn’t balanced as of now.

Both of these things are due for a change soon, no need to worry any further.

If D/F was so great with earth traits then how many D/F eles in the ESL ran earth/water/arcane instead of fire/water/arcane? Oh wait, none, if my memory serves correct. All the earth/water/arcane eles were staff or d/d. I’m sure it works fine though, and overall it doesn’t really matter. The traits honestly define roles for the ele better than the weaponsets do. So you have to ask yourself what is better for your team comp? More damage? Or the ability to more effectively tank a point? Thats the only choice you really have to make, the choice between d/f and d/d is more negligable. Still cele staff should always take earth.

And no sane elementalist will ever give up water to take earth. We all know that a celestial ele without water and arcane, is a dead elementalist.

I do agree that the burning/free power is a little bit over the top though, although the burning issue is honestly more problematic on guardians imo. At least they’ve gutted it on celestial engi.

Burning needs to be nerfed (for ele), but I think the rest is fine. Ele still has to work a bit for his damage compared to a warrior who doesn’t need to stack might in the first place because all the damage modifiers are passive.

Ele stacks might really well only with d/f and d/d sets. In comparison, warrior has crazy might stacking potential with greatsword but since that weapon isn’t used in pvp frequently people seem to forget that.

rotten.9753:

Ele stacks might really well only with d/f and d/d sets. In comparison, warrior has crazy might stacking potential with greatsword but since that weapon isn’t used in pvp frequently people seem to forget that.

Have you seen all these rampage gs warriors? It’s craaaazy.

Why is everyone always so quick to demand nerfs for elementalists?

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

It isn’t really fire line that is the problem…it is all the sustain from arcana/water. Water gives access to too much condi clear alone, and all of the heals on swapping to water (from swap + evasive arcana dodge-roll) just stack too well. In fact, the ele is pretty much balanced around having both…pigeon-holing them.

So how do we fix it? Nerf the traits, buff the utilities:

- Nerf healing from healing ripple and evasive arcana dodge. These have no cast time and honestly lack counterplay.
- Move some of the cleanse options out of water into other lines. A great choice would be moving “stop, drop, and roll” to the fire line. This cuts down on the marriage to water lines for just about ANY condi cleanse.
- Reduce protection durations from elemental attunement and contingency.
- Decrease the CD’s of defensive skills and utilities drastically. Skills such as water trident and cleansing wave (dagger 5 in water) should have much lower CD’s to make up for lost healing from traits. These sources are interruptible.

Nerfing healing ripple is really a no no, I can live with the rest…just not touch healing ripple, furthermore the protection boon is of fundamental importance for eles, generally speaking the sustain of ele is more than fine and the must remain in the current state to keep up with the power creep of other professions.

All I was suggesting is to reduce might stacking…but now I’m not even that sure anymore, burning does need a small shave but that’s it, as the time pass I realize what other professions are capable of. The power creep of other professions cannot be underestimated

I can see your point about healing ripple…don’t want it to feel like a dead trait. On the other hand, even if water-dodge roll healed for nothing, evasive arcana would still be an excellent trait.

My basic premise is that they need to reduce some of the trait-based sustain, and instead put it on weapon and utilities. The same goes with reducing protection duration – being able to get 100% prot uptime from a couple of traits is stupid. They should have shorter durations from on-swap effects – not only does this make it more interesting (as now you need to actually time it again, rather than just rotate and let prot sit on you all the time), but it also makes the traits less “necessary.” From there, you can DRASTICALLY improve (stronger or lower CD) ele utility and weapon-based survival sources, which are also more active (and don’t pigeon-hole you into one line). For instance, you could put arcane shield on a 35-40s CD.

This would solve a couple of things:
1 – The class becomes more active and varied in play-style. You now have to rely on selecting the right skill at the right time, and have period of vulnerability.
2 – The class relies FAR less on a simple rotation that optimizes the ability to spam out skills.
3 – The class is less pigeon-holed into certain lines to get some survivability, as you can now lean more on you actual weapon/utility skills.
4 – The class is WAY easier to balance, as it doesn’t RELY on OP effects like 100% prot uptime and tons of instant heals/cleanses coming every 10s.
5 – The class has way more counterplay, as there are now important skills that can be interrupted.

Of course, none of this will ever happen, and the class will always be forced to tow the line between incredibly OP and useless.

If they would just allow me to balance the class my self I would let blackbead help too

I don’t really see any change in my damage post-patch, so I don’t get the reason of this complaint.

BlackBeard.2873:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

It isn’t really fire line that is the problem…it is all the sustain from arcana/water. Water gives access to too much condi clear alone, and all of the heals on swapping to water (from swap + evasive arcana dodge-roll) just stack too well. In fact, the ele is pretty much balanced around having both…pigeon-holing them.

So how do we fix it? Nerf the traits, buff the utilities:

- Nerf healing from healing ripple and evasive arcana dodge. These have no cast time and honestly lack counterplay.
- Move some of the cleanse options out of water into other lines. A great choice would be moving “stop, drop, and roll” to the fire line. This cuts down on the marriage to water lines for just about ANY condi cleanse.
- Reduce protection durations from elemental attunement and contingency.
- Decrease the CD’s of defensive skills and utilities drastically. Skills such as water trident and cleansing wave (dagger 5 in water) should have much lower CD’s to make up for lost healing from traits. These sources are interruptible.

Nerfing healing ripple is really a no no, I can live with the rest…just not touch healing ripple, furthermore the protection boon is of fundamental importance for eles, generally speaking the sustain of ele is more than fine and the must remain in the current state to keep up with the power creep of other professions.

All I was suggesting is to reduce might stacking…but now I’m not even that sure anymore, burning does need a small shave but that’s it, as the time pass I realize what other professions are capable of. The power creep of other professions cannot be underestimated

I can see your point about healing ripple…don’t want it to feel like a dead trait. On the other hand, even if water-dodge roll healed for nothing, evasive arcana would still be an excellent trait.

My basic premise is that they need to reduce some of the trait-based sustain, and instead put it on weapon and utilities. The same goes with reducing protection duration – being able to get 100% prot uptime from a couple of traits is stupid. They should have shorter durations from on-swap effects – not only does this make it more interesting (as now you need to actually time it again, rather than just rotate and let prot sit on you all the time), but it also makes the traits less “necessary.” From there, you can DRASTICALLY improve (stronger or lower CD) ele utility and weapon-based survival sources, which are also more active (and don’t pigeon-hole you into one line). For instance, you could put arcane shield on a 35-40s CD.

This would solve a couple of things:
1 – The class becomes more active and varied in play-style. You now have to rely on selecting the right skill at the right time, and have period of vulnerability.
2 – The class relies FAR less on a simple rotation that optimizes the ability to spam out skills.
3 – The class is less pigeon-holed into certain lines to get some survivability, as you can now lean more on you actual weapon/utility skills.
4 – The class is WAY easier to balance, as it doesn’t RELY on OP effects like 100% prot uptime and tons of instant heals/cleanses coming every 10s.
5 – The class has way more counterplay, as there are now important skills that can be interrupted.

Of course, none of this will ever happen, and the class will always be forced to tow the line between incredibly OP and useless.

The first instance would be : increase freaking base HP of ele by 5k and bring it up to 15k, there should be no balance talks before this get sorted out

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

It isn’t really fire line that is the problem…it is all the sustain from arcana/water. Water gives access to too much condi clear alone, and all of the heals on swapping to water (from swap + evasive arcana dodge-roll) just stack too well. In fact, the ele is pretty much balanced around having both…pigeon-holing them.

So how do we fix it? Nerf the traits, buff the utilities:

- Nerf healing from healing ripple and evasive arcana dodge. These have no cast time and honestly lack counterplay.
- Move some of the cleanse options out of water into other lines. A great choice would be moving “stop, drop, and roll” to the fire line. This cuts down on the marriage to water lines for just about ANY condi cleanse.
- Reduce protection durations from elemental attunement and contingency.
- Decrease the CD’s of defensive skills and utilities drastically. Skills such as water trident and cleansing wave (dagger 5 in water) should have much lower CD’s to make up for lost healing from traits. These sources are interruptible.

Nerfing healing ripple is really a no no, I can live with the rest…just not touch healing ripple, furthermore the protection boon is of fundamental importance for eles, generally speaking the sustain of ele is more than fine and the must remain in the current state to keep up with the power creep of other professions.

All I was suggesting is to reduce might stacking…but now I’m not even that sure anymore, burning does need a small shave but that’s it, as the time pass I realize what other professions are capable of. The power creep of other professions cannot be underestimated

I can see your point about healing ripple…don’t want it to feel like a dead trait. On the other hand, even if water-dodge roll healed for nothing, evasive arcana would still be an excellent trait.

My basic premise is that they need to reduce some of the trait-based sustain, and instead put it on weapon and utilities. The same goes with reducing protection duration – being able to get 100% prot uptime from a couple of traits is stupid. They should have shorter durations from on-swap effects – not only does this make it more interesting (as now you need to actually time it again, rather than just rotate and let prot sit on you all the time), but it also makes the traits less “necessary.” From there, you can DRASTICALLY improve (stronger or lower CD) ele utility and weapon-based survival sources, which are also more active (and don’t pigeon-hole you into one line). For instance, you could put arcane shield on a 35-40s CD.

This would solve a couple of things:
1 – The class becomes more active and varied in play-style. You now have to rely on selecting the right skill at the right time, and have period of vulnerability.
2 – The class relies FAR less on a simple rotation that optimizes the ability to spam out skills.
3 – The class is less pigeon-holed into certain lines to get some survivability, as you can now lean more on you actual weapon/utility skills.
4 – The class is WAY easier to balance, as it doesn’t RELY on OP effects like 100% prot uptime and tons of instant heals/cleanses coming every 10s.
5 – The class has way more counterplay, as there are now important skills that can be interrupted.

Of course, none of this will ever happen, and the class will always be forced to tow the line between incredibly OP and useless.

The first instance would be : increase freaking base HP of ele by 5k and bring it up to 15k, there should be no balance talks before this get sorted out

This is not going to happen, they would have to adjust hp of all classes, not just ele.

Whoever said that ele would keep the “so much hated” healing?
The lowest armor and HP is the price ele pays for all the goodies it’s getting now, if you want to remove/reduce the goodies then the ele got no reason to keep paying the price, it’s that simple.

You want to reduce healing/protection?
-I want better healing skills, SoR now becomes like Healing signet, GoEH reduced cast time and CD, ER with reduced casting time and so on
-I want more huge access to weakness, interrupts and stability
-I want more damage on all weapon skills in general
-I want better elites and so on..

the ele pays huge costs for all the boons/heal; remove those and no need for ele to pay for anything

So I grabbed the new signet trait on my Necro and I’m not running might duration runes or even a sigil of battle. 25 stacks of might was pretty easy to get. Take blood magic + Soul reaping for shroud sustain and healing and the spite line. Not sure where this is a Ele specific “problem”.

oZii.2864:

So I grabbed the new signet trait on my Necro and I’m not running might duration runes or even a sigil of battle. 25 stacks of might was pretty easy to get. Take blood magic + Soul reaping for shroud sustain and healing and the spite line. Not sure where this is a Ele specific “problem”.

I would say that they actually added quite a lot of stuff that ensure high stacks of might to many professions. The reason why people are worried about it on ele and not for example on necro is just the pure fact ele is one of the best classes you can pick up in pvp. Very little people will actually think about nerfing necro imo.

After testing i don’t even think condi is even viable in WvW, so if anything, I’d be suggesting buffs.

Supreme.3164:

Whoever said that ele would keep the “so much hated” healing?
The lowest armor and HP is the price ele pays for all the goodies it’s getting now, if you want to remove/reduce the goodies then the ele got no reason to keep paying the price, it’s that simple.

You want to reduce healing/protection?
-I want better healing skills, SoR now becomes like Healing signet, GoEH reduced cast time and CD, ER with reduced casting time and so on
-I want more huge access to weakness, interrupts and stability
-I want more damage on all weapon skills in general
-I want better elites and so on..

the ele pays huge costs for all the boons/heal; remove those and no need for ele to pay for anything

I am not sure if this is in response to my comments, but I pretty much agree with you. I think that TRAIT-BASED sustain needs to be decreased in favor of skill/utility based defenses. Currently, eles have enough (maybe too much) sustain from stacking water/arcana, but are stuck with skills and utilities that add very small bits of sustain on top of that. Instead, I would propose to reverse it, to make skills and utilities give defense (meaning more useful utilities, much shorter CD’s, stronger defensive effects), and traits be only an important piece (only account for 40-50% of defense, as opposed to 70-80% currently). That would be achieved by doing some of the things that you listed. Even if they leave the total healing capabilities the same, but shift more of it to skills with a cast-time, they would raise the skill-cap and introduce more counter-play.

As far as health goes, I personally don’t think eles need more health. However, eles DO need more flexibility in pvp amulets (amulets that have SOME vit/toughnesss) in order to open up more build options.