Guild Wars 2

So obviously there has been a lot of complaints about the state of the tempest lately, and one idea keeps getting thrown out by people defending the tempest is the idea that
“ele is already strong enough, it doesn’t need anything, that’s why tempest isn’t strong”.

Well, let’s ignore for a second how that’s a terrible reason to cripple a new specialization, and let’s talk about how “ele is already strong enough” (in PvP, since almost anything goes in PvE anyways).

The elementalist class as a whole is not strong. There’s only one very specific build out there that is strong, or even overpowered, and that’s the D/D celestial arcane/water cantrip elementalist. It’s no secret that this build got a huge boost from the specialization change, but almost every other build for elementalists are still subpar.

Fresh air builds were hit hard since damage was removed from the air line. Signet builds also got hit by the removal of “aura on signet cast”. Conjures remain as clunky as ever. Arcane skills now have pretty bad trait paths, as you have to give up Evasive arcana just to reduce the cd on arcane skills. Scepter is still the title holder of “most useless filler weapon skills” and has terrible autos. Staff is okay, but requires far more coordination to play than a D/D ele.

Adding to all this, almost every patch that were released for eles that were meant to bring down the D/D cele ele ends up hitting the other builds far harder, and they never get anything to compensate for it.

I honestly couldn’t care less about the tempest at this point since it’s unlikely there will be a massive mechanics change by launch of HoT. However, there are big issues with the base elementalists’ build diversity that desperately need to be addressed.

TL; DR: Screw Tempest, nerf cele DD cantrip ele (and burning with it), buff other ele builds.

My I ask, how do you want to accomplish that?

Ehm..There are different viable builds for an elementalist. It is just that a lot of people aren’t open-minded enough to try a new build which sheers from metabattle.

You don’t simply nerf the most played class in PvP when having no balance in mind. Doing so will create an enormous outcry not just for one class, also for others.

Greets

Pretty misinformed. Quite a few viable builds out there and staff is actually more viable in more roles than D/D is. Scepter is probably only weapon that needs some love.

The specializations just basically opened the door for us to get nearly all the benefits of the old arcane and water build while being able to spec deep into earth for additional defense or fire for additional offense. Staff benefited from it just as much as D/D did; mainhand dagger just needs to be toned down some.

Zention.1849:

My I ask, how do you want to accomplish that?

For starters, burning as a condition obviously needs to be toned down slightly, then, for the D/D ele, burn application needs to be reduced as well. The problem I see with the D/D ele is the amount of damage they do for how sustainable they are. There was a period where the D/D ele was debatably the king of sustain, but it was balanced out by much lower damage output.

Cantrips remain the strongest utilities, not only because eles are burdened by our abyssal defensive stats, but also because it is the utility skill type has the most and best supporting traits, some of which even synergizes with other traits. The other utility skills can definitely receive more love in this department.

Pretty much all scepter autos needs to be fixed, as already stated as a problem by many people. Fire 2, water 2, and to a lesser extent earth 3 require fixes that would make them more reliable/less niche. Necessary changes to these have been said countless times so I’m not going to repeat them here.

Zention.1849:

Ehm..There are different viable builds for an elementalist. It is just that a lot of people aren’t open-minded enough to try a new build which sheers from metabattle.
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You don’t simply nerf the most played class in PvP when having no balance in mind. Doing so will create an enormous outcry not just for one class, also for others.

Greets

I’ve mained ele since headstart. I have played many different builds, plenty of them before metabattle was a thing and many that I play now do not get posted onto that site anyways. But that doesn’t change the fact that as I play, I still find myself losing to an ele who spams spells and miss skillshots, simply because they’re playing the standard cele D/D build and can sustain like crazy and still output considerably high damage.

The entire point of my post was to say that D/D ele needs to be toned down while the other builds need to be compensated.

MadRabbit.3179:

Pretty misinformed. Quite a few viable builds out there and staff is actually more viable in more roles than D/D is. Scepter is probably only weapon that needs some love.

The specializations just basically opened the door for us to get nearly all the benefits of the old arcane and water build while being able to spec deep into earth for additional defense or fire for additional offense. Staff benefited from it just as much as D/D did; mainhand dagger just needs to be toned down some.

Staff of course doesn’t do as well as d/d when it comes to a head on 1 v 1, as intended, but you’re correct in that it’s viable, but you would play it in a supporting role rather than the flexibility given by d/d. Of course, I did clearly say staff is okay. On the other hand, the fact that scepter has been left alone without buffs or reworks for this long is a large problem, and I don’t see why anyone should complain about having it improved by HoT launch.

But that’s only weapons.

The reason why staff benefited from the specializations was because everyone is forced to play with cantrips water/arcana. So the problem remains; we have almost no alternatives in our playstyle.

Well we are paying big bucks for the elite professions so they better be all good and not feel rushed.

The fact that the base class is such a mess is part of the reason they have a hard time making a specialization. If they improve an aspect, it can get unbalanced quite quickly. If they just leave it weak, you get tempest (something useless).

The PROBLEM with eles, in pvp, has always (and will always until they change something) be a problem of survivability. Eles have access to pretty good base damage, but lack survivability without traits. Due to lower base stats, generally weak defensive skills (with long CD’s), and utilties that have redic. high cooldowns, eles HAVE to be given access to very strong defensive traits just to survive. This creates a situation where:

1. The super-strong defensive traits become must-haves, pigeon-holing every build
2. New defense is hard to spread out to other places, as it risks adding to arcana/water sustain and becoming TOO much.
3. When they nerf the arcana/water sustain without fixing the weapon skill/utility defensive capabilities, the class becomes unplayable altogether (see: post dhuumfire with nerf to cleansing water).

EVERY elite specialization will suffer from issue #2: if it provides more sustain, eles will just take it to add to their current strength (healing, cleanse, boon-sharing), if it doesn’t provide sustain it will just be useless.

The ONLY way to make the class truly achieve diversity is to:
1. Nerf defensive trait capability that carry the class (arcana/water being necessary)
2. Buff defense access from skills and utilities, both opening up new build options AND introducing counter-play (interrupting heals!!)

Combined, this can both tone down the current cele d/d ele (which basically just stacks all possible defense and relies on might stacking/OP burning for damage) while creating a new build process that DOESN’T start with “Pick arcana and water, then see which other traitline can best create a functional tankyish play-style.”

Shadowflare.2759:

The elementalist class as a whole is not strong. There’s only one very specific build out there that is strong, or even overpowered, and that’s the D/D celestial arcane/water cantrip elementalist. It’s no secret that this build got a huge boost from the specialization change, but almost every other build for elementalists are still subpar.

I disagree with this. I use a none meta build everywhere and I do very well. It uses scepter btw.

Uden Reavstone.3426:

Shadowflare.2759:

The elementalist class as a whole is not strong. There’s only one very specific build out there that is strong, or even overpowered, and that’s the D/D celestial arcane/water cantrip elementalist. It’s no secret that this build got a huge boost from the specialization change, but almost every other build for elementalists are still subpar.

I disagree with this. I use a none meta build everywhere and I do very well. It uses scepter btw.

Define “very well”. Do you play ranked PvP? Do you play on higher tiered WvW maps? Do you use it in organized groups in PvE? Or do you mean that you just get by with it? It’s “viable”? Because outside of Celestial S/D and Cele Staff(which aren’t exactly perfect alternatives), I don’t think there’s much else to pick from if you want to not get destroyed in PvP and Scepter definitely isn’t being picked in PvE.

All that being said, I completely agree with BlackBeard and also, I think the Elementalist’s reign is almost over. Not only did they say they were going to make some changes(I expect the worst), Revenants running Mallyx will be a pretty rough match-up. Easy Confusion/Chill application and tons of Boon Stripping, multiple ways to mitigate D/D’s damage(without the Might stacks, it relies entirely on Burning, which they can handle easily if they’re using Mallyx), tons of mobility if they run Shiro(good luck escaping with RtL), etc.

Malchior.5732:

Uden Reavstone.3426:

Shadowflare.2759:

The elementalist class as a whole is not strong. There’s only one very specific build out there that is strong, or even overpowered, and that’s the D/D celestial arcane/water cantrip elementalist. It’s no secret that this build got a huge boost from the specialization change, but almost every other build for elementalists are still subpar.

I disagree with this. I use a none meta build everywhere and I do very well. It uses scepter btw.

Define “very well”. Do you play ranked PvP? Do you play on higher tiered WvW maps? Do you use it in organized groups in PvE? Or do you mean that you just get by with it? It’s “viable”? Because outside of Celestial S/D and Cele Staff(which aren’t exactly perfect alternatives), I don’t think there’s much else to pick from if you want to not get destroyed in PvP and Scepter definitely isn’t being picked in PvE.

All that being said, I completely agree with BlackBeard and also, I think the Elementalist’s reign is almost over. Not only did they say they were going to make some changes(I expect the worst), Revenants running Mallyx will be a pretty rough match-up. Easy Confusion/Chill application and tons of Boon Stripping, multiple ways to mitigate D/D’s damage(without the Might stacks, it relies entirely on Burning, which they can handle easily if they’re using Mallyx), tons of mobility if they run Shiro(good luck escaping with RtL), etc.

Befor I define “Very well,” let me define “Everywhere.” It means I use it in every game mode. As for “Very well,” I can hold my own in most 1v1 fights in ranked PvP. I have fought burst builds and some ai builds to a stand still. The only builds that I fear are Mesmer builds. Ever since I started doing PvP in GW1, Mesmers have been and will always be my number one enemy.

why would you want to nerf a class with the lowest base HP and armor in game?

sorrychief.2563:

why would you want to nerf a class with the lowest base HP and armor in game?

Because I’m not asking for a nerf to the entire class. I want the D/D cele arcane/water “sustain forever” ele to be nerfed because it deserves a nerf to its damage for how sustainable it is. Burning and free might stacks are the most apparent culprits here.

However I want other ele builds to be buffed. I play many builds as an ele, but even if I can often 1 v 2 as a S/F burst ele, it still doesn’t change the fact that if I switch to cele d/d I could do the same, except with even more safety.

I’m not sure why people either just ignore the lack of build diversity or just assume I want elementalists nerfed for no good reason.