Guild Wars 2

Original post
Mess with my Vigor.

I promise to uninstall my game if you decide to completely wreck elementalist.

I’ve often thought having permanent vigor a necessity. We have the WEAKEST life pool and armor pool for a class needing to be right in the action.

This can’t be a real idea.. Not when mesmers and guardians can nearly perma vigor just as easily as ele.

I have an idea. Hire me to help you figure out how to release a patch that doesn’t outright nerf Ele builds.

And no, I’m not just a mean person writing an angry post. Check my post history. They’ve progressively gotten more angry.

Your answer to “Lets give ele some more build diversity,” can’t be nerf all builds. You’ve progressively done it, but you’ve also offered NO other options.

Consult with someone about this.. Y’all have to have at least one person who plays a main of an ele.. It’s a mistake and it will 100 percent lose my business.

Signed,
Mark|Nex

UPDATE as of Nov. 4…

Appreciate the comments in the thread. Some very constructive ones. I’d also like to thank the Devs. They’ve been really communicating with us in this forum really well.

If they deserve anything its a round of applause. The last thing I have to say is I PRAY they get the update right.

Fight on, dear Ele friends.

Mbelch.9028:

This can’t be a real idea.. Not when mesmers and guardians can nearly perma vigor just as easily as ele.

Only thing wrong here. I know it’s semantics, but mesmers and guardians get it much easier than eles do (not “just as easily as”) , even before the proposed nerf. If they want to move our vigor on crit trait, it should be a 5 point minor trait like mesmers and guardians, not a 20 point major trait.

The proposed update changes aren’t final. They put it out to get feedback. Now get back to https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dec-10th-Balance-Preview/first and say your oppinion, but please do so in a non-threatening manner.

I know how frustrating that they hinder build diversity at every corner by unjust changes (a lot of them!), but try to be less pessimistic. While I am baffled that they even proposed all of those changes, I don’t think they want to kill off elementalists.. at least not now.

They just want to nerf, nerf and nerf ele. Elemental attunement, Renweing stamina and Cleansing wave were usefull – “Nooo, ele cant have useful things! lets move it to master tier!”

They need to replace Zephyr’s Speed (Air 5) with Vigor and then give us a new trait in Arcana. That would solve two problems.

Let’s compare pve meta builds of warrior and ele. Ele will have 2 dodges every 20 seconds while warrior 4.5 without wasting adrenaline (it gets even better with using burst skills). Warrior has 7k more hp, about 300 more defense and better sustainability with healing signet. Only thing that ele will have is projectile defense with 25% uptime.

Seems like I’m going to depend on guardians instead of dodging to survive.

Malcastus.6240:

The proposed update changes aren’t final. They put it out to get feedback. Now get back to https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dec-10th-Balance-Preview/first and say your oppinion, but please do so in a non-threatening manner.

I know how frustrating that they hinder build diversity at every corner by unjust changes (a lot of them!), but try to be less pessimistic. While I am baffled that they even proposed all of those changes, I don’t think they want to kill off elementalists.. at least not now.

“these changes arent final” means they’re final. everything thing theyve ever decided to nerf/add has gone through as is, everytime.

they seem to be swinging the nerf bat at everyone with no actual reason or explanation as to why but the elementalist has more ground to stand on than anyone else save thieves (yes, dagger pistol had to go but every other build wasnt stupidly over powered) I bring up that class because its my main and only 80, I was going to shelf it for my 65 elementalist but reading these threads now I’m just going to give my money and crafting items to my guild and call it a day.

Malcastus.6240:

The proposed update changes aren’t final. They put it out to get feedback. Now get back to https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dec-10th-Balance-Preview/first and say your oppinion, but please do so in a non-threatening manner.

I know how frustrating that they hinder build diversity at every corner by unjust changes (a lot of them!), but try to be less pessimistic. While I am baffled that they even proposed all of those changes, I don’t think they want to kill off elementalists.. at least not now.

I’d like to agree, but I’m a little skeptical that the changes “aren’t final.” They said that about the last update preview and nothing changed that I’m aware of, even though there were items getting incredibly negative feedback.

Uninstalling the game over a profession seems a bit extreme. Simply stop playing the profession if you don’t enjoy it and focus on one that you do enjoy. If that doesn’t do it for you, play something else for awhile and return later down the line. Who, knows, Anet may include something new to the game that makes game play exciting for you again.

Taldren.7523:

They need to replace Zephyr’s Speed (Air 5) with Vigor and then give us a new trait in Arcana. That would solve two problems.

Yes, this! That will free up room to move one of the Arcana Grandmaster traits down and put a good new trait in there.

Imagi.4561:

I’d like to agree, but I’m a little skeptical that the changes “aren’t final.” They said that about the last update preview and nothing changed that I’m aware of, even though there were items getting incredibly negative feedback.

Anet has been replying to feedback and suggesting some compromises. Those include the possibility of renewing stamina and cleansing wave staying at adept tier. So they are listening and considerating our opinions.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Imagi.4561:

I’d like to agree, but I’m a little skeptical that the changes “aren’t final.” They said that about the last update preview and nothing changed that I’m aware of, even though there were items getting incredibly negative feedback.

Anet has been replying to feedback and suggesting some compromises. Those include the possibility of renewing stamina and cleansing wave staying at adept tier. So they are listening and considerating our opinions.

Exactly. Follow the discussion and post your opinions on that thread.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Imagi.4561:

I’d like to agree, but I’m a little skeptical that the changes “aren’t final.” They said that about the last update preview and nothing changed that I’m aware of, even though there were items getting incredibly negative feedback.

Anet has been replying to feedback and suggesting some compromises. Those include the possibility of renewing stamina and cleansing wave staying at adept tier. So they are listening and considerating our opinions.

The feedback they’ve been providing is commendable. However, they did much the same for the preview of the last update.

If the update is released and they actually institute compromises and not a copy/paste of the proposal, I’ll gladly admit that I was wrong to doubt.

Jon posted saying that right now he likes the idea of renewing staying adept and elemental attunement moving to to master.

I do not know why should only crit builds get vigor? Why should there be a way to make the best burst dmg build on ele have a sound def where the other builds must get there def by stacking vit / armor/ healing power and need to use well timed skills to live?

You need to give up some things power or crit dmg to a high def ability like vigor.
Now if your just going on about losing your ability to roll for not evading dmg but to just simply use your evasion skill then your wasting a lot of dmg protection as is.

Mbelch.9028:

Mess with my Vigor.

I promise to uninstall my game if you decide to completely wreck elementalist.

I’ve often thought having permanent vigor a necessity. We have the WEAKEST life pool and armor pool for a class needing to be right in the action.

This can’t be a real idea.. Not when mesmers and guardians can nearly perma vigor just as easily as ele.

I have an idea. Hire me to help you figure out how to release a patch that doesn’t outright nerf Ele builds.

And no, I’m not just a mean person writing an angry post. Check my post history. They’ve progressively gotten more angry.

Your answer to “Lets give ele some more build diversity,” can’t be nerf all builds. You’ve progressively done it, but you’ve also offered NO other options.

Consult with someone about this.. Y’all have to have at least one person who plays a main of an ele.. It’s a mistake and it will 100 percent lose my business.

Signed,
Mark|Nex

Don’t uninstall bro just re-roll warrior till the population is 100% warriors, then anet might decide they were wrong.

Nearly? Ranger, Thief, and Guardian can all have near-permanent vigor more easily, have access to better defensive stats, better defensive weapon and utilities, and deal more damage without being glass-cannon.

Seriously? What do we have left? The developers don’t want us to use our heals to heal, won’t allow us to use escape with our escapes, and now they don’t want our evasion to evade?

I don’t like vigor, would love to see most of it removed from the game to be honest. But what on earth are the developers goals for a defensively built elementalist? Because ever since that very first heal nerf, their goals seems to be that we shouldn’t be allowed to build any defense at all.

avilo.1942:

Don’t uninstall bro just re-roll warrior till the population is 100% warriors, then anet might decide they were wrong.

To be fair Warriors are also getting some hefty nerfs, actual intentional nerfs.

With Ele I have no clue what is going to happen, ANet think they are improving the class but all I can see is crucial traits getting moved deeper into Arcana/Water which we are already locked into in order to avoid getting insta-killed.

Hey thanks to everybody who replied to this. I was FUMING at the time.

Rightly so, don’t you think? Ele has been nerfed loudly and silently since it was released. Its sickening.

I want to thank Jon for communicating with the community and compromising with us. I hope they continue to do this. The eles that post on this forum are generally the best on their respective servers.. Why?…. Because they’re the only ones left.

To respond to some comments here…

Malcastus, I did do that, but be wary. They’ve said that before and completely ignored people. I think it is encouraging that they’re bouncing the ball with us this time.

DiogoSilvia, always good to hear from you. Yeah, I’m quite encouraged by that. And I appreciate that you and others like Thibash are taking up the torch of advocating for eles while I’m quite busy.

GuildWarsPlayer, my man, I do believe you aren’t an ele fanatic. I feel elementalist is the class that just suits me so well it isn’t funny. I feel like my character embodies me. Do you feel the same? I’m not an altoholoic, but I do possess 6 different lvl 80 characters. Each of which is geared up. I’m also decent at mesmer, but it just isn’t fun like ele is. Ele is a huge part of logging on for me. When I can just tote a lightning whip around and look/feel boss, I’m a happy camper. But if I’m forced away from it, I. am. not.

Avilo, I’ve got a warrior. Boy is it EASY mode >_<. I just don’t have fun on it. It’s like thief back when all you had to do was press 2-2-2-2-2-2 to kill your alive enemy and also kill him without wasting energy to hit F, just continue to hit the 2 key. Good warriors regen 1200 hp/sec. As an ele I deal roughly 1k-1.5k dmg/sec depending on where I’m at in my might cycle. If I’m stunned, I’m low in my might cycle. There’s the whole warrior battle right there. Something is amiss, don’t you think?

Thanks for the discussion guys

I think that it’s fair. Perma vigor is very strong. It deserves to cost 20 trait points regardless of the profession. My only complaint is how the Arcana 15 minor trait is pretty awful. If they could re-work that into a better trait, then maybe people wouldn’t be so upset about something like making perma vigor cost 20 trait points.

Jski.6180:

You need to give up some things power or crit dmg to a high def ability like vigor.
Now if your just going on about losing your ability to roll for not evading dmg but to just simply use your evasion skill then your wasting a lot of dmg protection as is.

So what do these professions “give up?”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Precision
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorating_Speed
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_Infusion

Both Guardians and Mesmers are going to have these traits almost guaranteed, and many Engys also take Speedy Kits, which means for two Adept traits in two good lines, an Engy gets Vigor and Swiftness with no cooldown.

But I guess it makes sense that the most squishy profession with the least inherent survivability should not only have to try twice as hard to do anything, they should also have to pay twice as much or more for access to what other professions have as a baseline.

Kaleban.9834:

Jski.6180:

You need to give up some things power or crit dmg to a high def ability like vigor.
Now if your just going on about losing your ability to roll for not evading dmg but to just simply use your evasion skill then your wasting a lot of dmg protection as is.

So what do these professions “give up?”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Precision
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorating_Speed
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_Infusion

Both Guardians and Mesmers are going to have these traits almost guaranteed, and many Engys also take Speedy Kits, which means for two Adept traits in two good lines, an Engy gets Vigor and Swiftness with no cooldown.

But I guess it makes sense that the most squishy profession with the least inherent survivability should not only have to try twice as hard to do anything, they should also have to pay twice as much or more for access to what other professions have as a baseline.

Engineers have to pay 20 trait points to get reliable perma vigor. With the upcoming update, it’s going to be 30 for perma-vigor with some careful kit swapping or just deal with a 50% up-time. I will agree with Mesmer and Guardian, though. Like I’ve already said, perma vigor should really cost 20 trait points.

Jon already stated a compromise is to move Renewing Stamina back to Adept and the Arcane Shield proc to Master tier. I believe Page 3 of the discussion on Ele Subforum

JonPeters.5630:

Summation of high risk concerns for elementalist.
snip
….
Arcana
I see the logic in not wanting the two changes in this line to counter each other. Moving good adept traits to master level is contrary to reducing the need to spec into this line. That being said, Elemental Attunement is just a beast of a trait and could honestly be compared with most grandmaster traits. I think a good compromise would be to place Renewing Stamina back in the adept tier, placing is where the other professions get this type of trait, and instead move Final Shielding to the master tier where it could live alongside Arcane Retribution as two good choices in arcane builds that take Arcane Mastery in the adept tier. That could leave some interesting builds such as: 0/30/30/0/10 for fresh air, diamond skin, and renewing stamina. It also still leaves builds that put only 10 points in Arcana a chance to gain Protection by going 30 air for Tempest Defense, and 10 Earth for Elemental Shielding and still have 30 points leftover.

I still believe there is work to be done at the grandmaster tier in Fire at the very minimum and that Air and Water are the only truly good grandmaster choice right now. There are also still a handful of just terrible traits that will still get looked at, but we felt like we were already bordering on changing too much.

Thanks,

Jon

P.S. bug fix for Lingering Elements is coming on Nov. 26th as well.

EA D/D ele needs 3 things to exist:
elemental attunements, renewing stamina and evasive arcana

So does Aura sharing D/D.

The change proposed would be acceptable…..i still don t see the point in an ele nerf but at least is acceptable.

D/D still needs help badly.

Otaur, I know. I was one of the people calling for compromise in the main thread before he posted it. I’m just hoping they will follow through.

I don’t mind if they reorganize, but LordByron is 100% correct. Those three traits make D/D ele mobile and viable.

(P.S. Whats up Byron? Hope SPvP nuking is going smashingly heh.)

I sense alot of anger in your first post. Chill my friend, CHill

They could buff the fire line with a new vigor trait (it fits thematically as well):

Phoenix Touch
Gain 5s of vigor on applying a burn. 5s ICD.

You can perma-vigor if you work for it (take the 30% burn on crit trait, or glyph of elemental power, or just sit in fire), but its not nearly as passive. It also bring more survivability to fire. If they did this, there is also a viable alternative to renewing stamina, lessening the dependence on arcana.

Peow Peow stop trolling on forums you don’t belong in.. Click your own post history and yes, feel embarrassed for we can all see it.

BlackBeard, I am not sure of the future of ele. I think their change will not be TOO harmful now that they’ve begun to bounce the ball back and forth. But I would never be opposed to a buff like you’re suggesting.

This whole class is about working for results. If anybody knows it, its you and a handful of others on this forum!