Frustrated with my Ele.

Frustrated with my Ele.

in Elementalist

Posted by: Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

First off I really don’t want to rant, I’ve really tried to get my Ele to work and well everything I’ve tried has been complete disappointment.

Daggers too close range, I can’t get the hang of close combat with the dagger skills. Everything feels off, even though it does damage, one hit and I’m hurting. It doesn’t help when this profession has the lowest health in the game, feel like I don’t have time to think let alone track elements.

Scepter would work well if it didn’t rely soo heavily on ground targeting to do any real damage. I don’t have a pet to hold ground, while I wind up spells that have long cast times. This has so far been the most productive weapon I’ve used, the timing has just been aggravating with trying to track elements and what skill does what.

Staff at low levels was fun and not too crazy, but at later levels the cast times kill you. Seriously every big spell requires you to sit there and take damage and the rest are just not enough damage.

Warhorn it was a decent offhand.

Dagger offhand, could be alright I’m just not that good at close combat with an Elementalist.

Focus offhand don’t really remember any of the skills for it though I used it until the warhorn was available. So it’s OK from what I remember.

I really don’t like the characteristics of the elements as they seem too reliant on active abilities instead of a good balance of passive and active.

I want to enjoy the class, but the gameplay is just too frustrating. If they could add anything, a permanent elemental companion for the elite skill would be a welcomed change/addition. I wouldn’t care if it changed with your element choice. The one minute elemental is too situational, but a more permanent companion would be a desired option for such a low health profession.

I have an 80 of every profession with their elite and this profession is the squishiest of the bunch. I’m sure it can be good for many and the numbers do show it can do damage the problem seems to be either you have to be good at close combat or aoe targeting to get any benefit out of the profession.

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Posted by: soulknight.9620

soulknight.9620

Hello, friend!
First of all what mode are you talking about?
In PVE every weapon has its uses and pretty much fulfills its role:
Dagger is a “thief” style weapon that relies on mobility, boons, dodges. If you cant maintain a decent boon amount and get those well timed dodges you will have a hard time with this weapon set.
Scepter is a “burst” type of weapon. Works well with Fresh air trait. I would advice you to try to use air skills for damage instead of fire with this weapon. Fire skills are perfect for filling the gaps between fresh air procs.
Staff is a good ranged dps weapon with a lot of group support. Slow skills make up for decent aoe damage and a lot of utility.
Warhorn is a “meh” weapon. It has its uses as a damaging utility offhand, but….
Focus provides more utility and survivability and….
Offhand dagger gets you more damage and mobility.

General PVE advice is – get more practice of attunement switching, learn and utilize every skill your weapons can provide. For example a lot of people think that staff has no defensive skills because they cant effectively utilize magnetic aura, water fields (and blasts), ice fields, earth 4 skill (that earth wall), static field etc. You generaly need to “feel” what and when to use.
Also try to play with more defensive stats if you lack survivability.

In SPVP the situation is far worse. There is only one viable build tempest auramancer that spam heals 24/7. Thats it, no other builds can compete in the currents state of the game. So if you like to spvp i suggest you get a different class.

WvW is something in between of SPVP and PVE. Eles have their uses, but overall they have been nerfed too much to being considered “meta”.

Currently we are waiting for the next elite spec that will come with next expantion. Maybe we will see some improvements there, but honestly i lost my hope a long time ago =)

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Posted by: ApaWanka.2698

ApaWanka.2698

Like soulknight said, depend of you gamemode, your gameplay and needs are different.

Anyway, elementalist is not an easy profesion. With other profesions like DH or Berserker U can start and more or less survive due the high amount of pasive defenses (even if master them are not easy, they are newbys friendly)

Elementalist have a different learning curve, its hard when you start due the amount of skills and the small pasive defenses (if U dont play a healbot) but as soon as you learn what skill you need on each moment and you get the “muscular memory” to reach that skill quick enough, the elementalist is a really rewarding profesion that have tools for every situation.

I mainly play WvW and with different builds I can fit every situation. Solo or group roam, zerg stalking, melee train or long range aoe dps.

So, if U like the class check videos and keep playing it because is a really complete class and worth to learn.

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Posted by: Loboling.5293

Loboling.5293

Not saying this for the OP, since he seems to really not understand the ele yet, but auramancer is the only viable build in platinum and above (maybe), but I made it from silver (after some bad placement matches) all the way to platinum (I was actually one game away when I stopped, so who knows) all played with glass staff ele in pvp. (zerker amulet)

So for lower tier pvp a lot of viable builds open up, but the higher you go, the less this becomes possible. When I solo a ranger and condi mes and maintain control of the point, you know you’re playing in low skill bracket.

I’m certainly not suggesting OP tried glass staff, but it’s viable through tier 3 gold, and that is starting from tier 1 silver. Although, for me, staff is my most comfortable weapon to play with. (but it really sucks at 1v1, but can beat players who are way less skilled)

Glass staff offers a lot of cc, condi cleanse, and most important huge pressure on the point. You can only play this build when you have mastered portal locations on maps, but once you do, you’ll only ever die to other players who also share this knowledge. (more and more at higher tiers)

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

I am most comfotable with scepter/focus and it works very well in gold. I dueled a top thief in WvW for testing and won something like three out of the first four fights. He did then change something in his build and had very good interrupts afterwards beating me much saver … So it also depends on what you fight. In solo Q the higher i get with my build the more i like it due to people mostly knowing what to do and my uncommon build catches them by surprise. I do much more damage using sage amulet but have lower heals and so support which is not so bad in random groups.

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

My $0.02:

Dagger mainhand – it’s OK, though not my favorite weapon. A bit bland.
Scepter – love it.
Staff – love it.
Dagger offhand – it’s fun to play, was my favorite pre-HoT.
Warhorn – love it.
Focus – Meh. Too defensive, it’s not for me.

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Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

If we’re talking open world PvE, you could always just build tankier until you feel more comfortable with the class. There’s no reason you have to limit yourself to full glass just because you do it with other classes or people tell you it’s the only way to go.

Remember that ele has strong healing and damage mitigation available to them, as well as the ability to compensate somewhat for damage lost by might stacking in solo play. You should be able to find your comfort zone with this class. It doesn’t necessarily have to be “squishy”.

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Posted by: soulknight.9620

soulknight.9620

So for lower tier pvp a lot of viable builds open up, but the higher you go, the less this becomes possible.

You actually can play any build you like (like literaly ANY build) against bad players. Ive played a lot of zerk staff, zerk d/d, sage d/d and many more glass offmeta builds in low tiers of rankeds. But when you start to get decent opponents thats when things get nasty. Decent enemies will melt you down in a sec by just looking at you if you are outside of auramancer build.
So technicaly yes, there are options, but if you want to compete and be somewhat usefull to the team instead of being a dead weight, you MUST be healbot auramancer. Thats why i said about the only viable build.

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

I donĀ“t think you must be the meta auramancer but things like focus, soldier rune, tempest seem mandatory … So i think variants are possible and at least for me perform well but yes basically you are menders or sage auramancer ….

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

What gets to me is there no real all in dmg any more on ele specter has burst but even it not all in dmg compared to other classes who can real run that “if i see you before you see me your dead” even at best ele scepter needs a rotation and for the other person not to have any counter power dmg.

The old argument was that ele was an aoe dmg class so its dmg was not as high because it was spread out but that argument is no longer there due to staff becoming the all in support tool and dagger the “tank” wepon. Scepter skills all but a few are simply to slow and to effective as close ranged only. Scepter the all in dmg tool for the ele class is to much like staff as in its got a lot of support on it and “aoe” so it cant do dmg like say a thf 1 skill.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

Mainly I’ve been open world roaming, problems start when active defenses are burnt and I’m just not hitting hard enough. Though recently tried a change to one of my paths and it seems to punch better. Staff is alright at least so far the one I’m most comfortable with. My gear is off, but I really want to iron out the class before I make another gear set. Commanders is what I’m running, still not sure which Rune is best, but Scholar seems to work well. Anyway here’s the build and any advice is welcome. If I can find a build I’m comfortable with it will let me dust the toon off more often.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWnUMAFOgNOAGYC0RgFBALIAMBeAut2YbuVYDcBqhA-TxRBQB/T9HA8AAenOgFcBAuy+DXU5HJVCCA-e

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

The new trait system along with the rushed out and badly conceived Tempest ruined the class. That is not even mentioning the completely unfair class balancing the class has received, with the fire line being destroyed, diamond skin being removed, all the damage nerfs, etc.

Anet constantly killing this class is the reason I left the game (and all my elementalist friends) about a year ago. When you realize pvp is easier if you take a class you’ve never player and roll your face on the keys than play with your main ele you know Anet just has no clue how to balance its competitive game modes.

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Mainly I’ve been open world roaming, problems start when active defenses are burnt and I’m just not hitting hard enough. Though recently tried a change to one of my paths and it seems to punch better. Staff is alright at least so far the one I’m most comfortable with. My gear is off, but I really want to iron out the class before I make another gear set. Commanders is what I’m running, still not sure which Rune is best, but Scholar seems to work well. Anyway here’s the build and any advice is welcome. If I can find a build I’m comfortable with it will let me dust the toon off more often.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWnUMAFOgNOAGYC0RgFBALIAMBeAut2YbuVYDcBqhA-TxRBQB/T9HA8AAenOgFcBAuy+DXU5HJVCCA-e

For PvE in general, open world included:

1. One with Fire is useless, even more so on staff. Pyromancer’s Training is soooo much better, as it reduces your fire cooldowns, which are your primary sources of damage.

2. Aeromancer’s Training is not worth using with a staff. Pick either of the two other choices here, they are both good.

3. Invigorating Torrents aren’t worth taking over Harmonous Conduit. Both the damage modifier and the stability are more useful.

4. You don’t need any more defensive skills than you already have on staff. You have lots of strong CC (water 4, air 5, earth 2, 4 & 5, earth overload, Glyph of Storms in Eath), and good cleanses (water 5, water overload). You also have additional on-demand healing through blasting water fields (water 2 → 3/5). You really should be running Glyph of Storms. It’s either insane CC or very strong damage, depending on your attunement. The rest of your utilities aren’t that important, though I recommend using Signet of Fire for the extra punch. You could grab “Feel the burn!” for the on-demand aura (and fury).

5. Following up, once you get comfortable with using your weapon skills for your survival you won’t need defensive stats on gear either. You may consider using Marauder’s as stepping stone toward full Berserker’s.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Here my real frustration with ele is how much all in you must build to equal or less of an effect as other classes. The best example i am looking at is running the all in condi clear ele vs any class who can give out aoe resistances.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XCNYi9XCWYCcYiFVAr4DEByAuZ1waalIAsAKAA-TlQWABmqDAg9HAA-w

This build is my all in support clear build and it works to a point but you must put every thing you have into running clears to make it viable for group play in wvw. The thing is a rev can use 1 skill and be significant more useful on many levels with minimal build.

Its true for dmg builds tank builds even boon / healing support builds ele as a class must over specialization in a build to make it viable for play. Where other classes are able to be effect in any giving game play with out the need to go all in allowing them to fill more then one roll at the same time (something that ele use to be able to do and the reason why its the way it is now).

Ele is simply out dated with its effects and skills and cdr -% just do not cut it for any real fix. The game has simply moved on from ele being a jack of all trades class. Even the war class is more of a jack of all trades then ele at this point and that is saying something about the sate of ele.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

This build is my all in support clear build and it works to a point but you must put every thing you have into running clears to make it viable for group play in wvw. The thing is a rev can use 1 skill and be significant more useful on many levels with minimal build.

Have you considered that this might actually be intentional? You’re trying to counter condies with a class that has no access to resistance. Let me phrase it in another way – you’re trying to compete in a field where another class is strong and ele is weak. Why? Use the strengths of the ele to make it effective. You can focus on either healing or damage, both make you an asset in WvW.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

This build is my all in support clear build and it works to a point but you must put every thing you have into running clears to make it viable for group play in wvw. The thing is a rev can use 1 skill and be significant more useful on many levels with minimal build.

Have you considered that this might actually be intentional? You’re trying to counter condies with a class that has no access to resistance. Let me phrase it in another way – you’re trying to compete in a field where another class is strong and ele is weak. Why? Use the strengths of the ele to make it effective. You can focus on either healing or damage, both make you an asset in WvW.

That mind set is why ele is always going to be this over specialized class when it should be a jack of all trades class. The reasoning behind why most of its high end effects are not that powerfully as say the more “specialized” classes yet these classes tend to be more able to do every thing with most builds.

Powerfully boons (stab quickness and resistance) and the lack of are class definers more then just simple add ons. With out them your class simply becomes unplayable or a “body” class (less that your there with x class but more there for simply holding supple and using siege). Ele as a true healing support is lacking real support boons. Things like vigor and protection are so easy to come by now that they are no longer a class definer as well as there effects have become so weak in today’s environment due to dmg effects update and blunt nerfs to effects you will never be able to say if you have it on you or not out side of max min.

Ele can clear with is regs but its in such a way that you must run at least 2 lines with a very lock in set of chose that your simply unable to play any other way. In a way you become an ele who can deal with condis or your not. One being the super tank support the other being the super glass dmg with NO in-between. Its so clunky that only one wepon gets a real use out of it and you must give up the ability to be real aura support for your team. The water line in it self is overloaded with effects and in being so more of a used line then even tempest.

There just simply no chose in how to play ele. For some reason there are real chose in how to play the other classes who are not seen as jack of all trades and in being so very able to take many hits support and do some of the highest dmg / effective dmg in the game all at the same time.

When its “ok” for a rev to have all the strongest boons has the best healing over time has the best slow power burst from a long rages as a class with high hp and def AND wepon swaps tell me why is it not “ok” for ele who is very locked into effects and cd and builds and weapons not to have any of this?

As for the intentional effects of things i think resistance is just a bandages to fix a condi problem that they knew they where going to make. There been more then once to make it a non 100% up time but it never was comply stopped because if they did condis would be more end all be all in all game formats. The intention of eles clear is to be support more then self but this ideal is out dated so much that it simply dose not fit the meta.
The intention is that ele is balanced for game play about 4 years back things like rev is balanced for things now.

I want you to look into a mirror and try to explain why Anet has done nothing with Ice Shards and ask your self if Anet was realty “with it” when it comes to balancing as in all classes are updated at the same levels what is going on with a places holder skills that could be called places holder skill and do 0 dmg and ppl would still not realize it becomes its never used and never will be used.

Ele IS the outdated class that is balanced for 2013 not 2017 that is the intentions and the defining use of the class.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

(edited by Jski.6180)

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

That mind set is why ele is always going to be this over specialized class when it should be a jack of all trades class. The reasoning behind why most of its high end effects are not that powerfully as say the more “specialized” classes yet these classes tend to be more able to do every thing with most builds.

No build can do everything. Not on a nearly decent level, in any case. Jack-of-all-trades builds aren’t good at everything, more like equally bad at everything. That’s why every class should be able to specialize in something. Ele isn’t “overly” specialized. It’s as specialized as any other class, really.

Ele IS the outdated class that is balanced for 2013 not 2017 that is the intentions and the defining use of the class.

Pure nonsense.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

That mind set is why ele is always going to be this over specialized class when it should be a jack of all trades class. The reasoning behind why most of its high end effects are not that powerfully as say the more “specialized” classes yet these classes tend to be more able to do every thing with most builds.

No build can do everything. Not on a nearly decent level, in any case. Jack-of-all-trades builds aren’t good at everything, more like equally bad at everything. That’s why every class should be able to specialize in something. Ele isn’t “overly” specialized. It’s as specialized as any other class, really.

Ele IS the outdated class that is balanced for 2013 not 2017 that is the intentions and the defining use of the class.

Pure nonsense.

Well no boons and boon duration has realty make specialized not as big of a thing or at least when it comes to supporting with these powerful boons. Condi clear is more specialized then reisctace as a boon.

Its not there a lot on the ele kit that is very out dated the only real updates applied to it has been cdr an explication bug fixes. You still not address the real problem that one skill that dose nothing but dmg and that it on a water atument something that is know for soft cc or heals/support.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

Ele IS the outdated class that is balanced for 2013 not 2017 that is the intentions and the defining use of the class.[/quote]

While I don’t think ele isn’t balanced for 2017, how it’s balanced is definitely off. Rather than reigning in Tempest core ele gets continuous nerfs. Take the latest nerf to elemental shielding rather than hardy conduit. Core ele has much less access to auras than tempest, and this is after we’ve already had all aura duration nerfed. Each time tempest causes an issue core ele gets nerfed if at all possible. It’s especially noticeable in pvp where it’s forced to be a healbot.

Look to the future with hope though. If the leaks are true we will get a sword dps spec in the next expansion (I don’t think that many would pay for yet another support spec we didn’t ask for). If it is true those same traits will have to be addressed. As a dps spec it will either A. One shot damage potential B. Loaded with its own defenses C. Our defense nerfs reverted. If not why would anyone play a dps spec that can’t survive long enough to do its job, rather than roll tempest that at least conteibutes

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

While I don’t think ele isn’t balanced for 2017, how it’s balanced is definitely off. Rather than reigning in Tempest core ele gets continuous nerfs. Take the latest nerf to elemental shielding rather than hardy conduit. Core ele has much less access to auras than tempest, and this is after we’ve already had all aura duration nerfed. Each time tempest causes an issue core ele gets nerfed if at all possible. It’s especially noticeable in pvp where it’s forced to be a healbot.

Look to the future with hope though. If the leaks are true we will get a sword dps spec in the next expansion (I don’t think that many would pay for yet another support spec we didn’t ask for). If it is true those same traits will have to be addressed. As a dps spec it will either A. One shot damage potential B. Loaded with its own defenses C. Our defense nerfs reverted. If not why would anyone play a dps spec that can’t survive long enough to do its job, rather than roll tempest that at least conteibutes

There 2 skill that i would say have been updated to 2017 standers arcain power and ice spike.

The old pre hot ele would not have any type of arcain condi support skill like that due to ele not being a condi dmg class but now it can give out condi dmg / effects like thf but it dose not comply fit atm with the rest of the arcain kit. Its as if they updated only one small part of the kit and moved on when there are at least 2 (i would say 3 the heal needs a real update not a cdr) that are pointless for the most part.

The other ice spike is very much in the 2017 mind set as in it was a rule not to let ele have a field and blast on the same wepon and atument. Ice spike’s blast brakes this rule of there and i hope they keep braking but as things stand this rule is holding fast to all other atumens and weapons so out side of this one update nothing on the atuments or weapons are updated with the 2017 mind set.

That what keeping ele back from being up to date this wack a mole update one effect and hopping every one forgets about every thing else. For the most part that IS what happening. There a lot of skills that are way to week of an effect to be only single targets or the awkward aoe of lines or only 3 person. There a major lack of powerful boon support (all though tempest had it for a time with heat sink but lost it way before any one though about nerfing mez boon share effect) a lack of real dmg both power and condi on real aoe attks (i still do not get why they think its ok for ele to have mostly single target condi effect when it only has 2 condi dmg types and all other classes in the game have many aoe version of the same 2 condis).

Pre-hot condi was utilty not its own dmg tool power dmg was king but that power dmg was mostly aimed at ground target effects because it was much harder to deal with soft cc back then. So ele lack the real condi dmg of 2017 and the real power dmg burst of 2017. What it has is the condis of utility and ground target power dmg over time.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

(edited by Jski.6180)

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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

I didn’t deny there are weak skills or that there weren’t place holder traits. Look at written in stone, we haven’t had a signet build since fire’s embrace was removed and blinding ashes nerfed. Every class has some weak skills and place holder traits which is why I didn’t mention it. If you look at raids ele damage as a whole is “on par” while not taking into account that it’s against mostly stationary large hitbox ai or risk vs reward. I don’t see them really changing that as if it’s huge and stationary ele is good

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

I didn’t deny there are weak skills or that there weren’t place holder traits. Look at written in stone, we haven’t had a signet build since fire’s embrace was removed and blinding ashes nerfed. Every class has some weak skills and place holder traits which is why I didn’t mention it. If you look at raids ele damage as a whole is “on par” while not taking into account that it’s against mostly stationary large hitbox ai or risk vs reward. I don’t see them really changing that as if it’s huge and stationary ele is good

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ice_Shards

Is a place holder skill.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

Not arguing that thirteen updates later and it prob will still be horrible. The next great SHATTERSTONE!

(edited by Keadron.9570)

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Well no boons and boon duration has realty make specialized not as big of a thing or at least when it comes to supporting with these powerful boons. Condi clear is more specialized then reisctace as a boon.

Boon duration is a specialization on its own. You give up a lot to maximize it. On the topic of cleanse vs resistance, these are just two separate ways to counter condis. And the thing is, ele is a weird pick even for cleanse, even though it is possible to do so. In WvW you need cleanse on the front line, where an ele doesn’t really belong to IMO. I mean, sure, you can go Minstrel auramancer and survive it, but what’s the point? The front line already has guards and they have cleanses on their own. And you can heal better from the back line with a staff and water fields.

Its not there a lot on the ele kit that is very out dated the only real updates applied to it has been cdr an explication bug fixes. You still not address the real problem that one skill that dose nothing but dmg and that it on a water atument something that is know for soft cc or heals/support.

Ele skills are fine. You keep complaining about one specific skill which is autoattack. Just because staff auto heals doesn’t mean every water auto ever has to. There are plenty of autos in the game which do nothing but damage. Water is niche attunement anyway. If anything, I’d complain about Piercing Shards, which gives a sizable damage boost in said niche attunement. But it’s just nitpicking, because it’s just a minor trait and the game – again – is full of quirky minors that aren’t really useful.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Well no boons and boon duration has realty make specialized not as big of a thing or at least when it comes to supporting with these powerful boons. Condi clear is more specialized then reisctace as a boon.

Boon duration is a specialization on its own. You give up a lot to maximize it. On the topic of cleanse vs resistance, these are just two separate ways to counter condis. And the thing is, ele is a weird pick even for cleanse, even though it is possible to do so. In WvW you need cleanse on the front line, where an ele doesn’t really belong to IMO. I mean, sure, you can go Minstrel auramancer and survive it, but what’s the point? The front line already has guards and they have cleanses on their own. And you can heal better from the back line with a staff and water fields.

Its not there a lot on the ele kit that is very out dated the only real updates applied to it has been cdr an explication bug fixes. You still not address the real problem that one skill that dose nothing but dmg and that it on a water atument something that is know for soft cc or heals/support.

Ele skills are fine. You keep complaining about one specific skill which is autoattack. Just because staff auto heals doesn’t mean every water auto ever has to. There are plenty of autos in the game which do nothing but damage. Water is niche attunement anyway. If anything, I’d complain about Piercing Shards, which gives a sizable damage boost in said niche attunement. But it’s just nitpicking, because it’s just a minor trait and the game – again – is full of quirky minors that aren’t really useful.

Boon duration is free for the amount of stats used vs any other combo in the game. A free 33% from one sigil is out right silly and 33% from a simple passive from a class on an aoe is crazy making all classes in that pt specialization in boon duration even if they are not build for it. As things stand its harder and less effect to clear condis in gw2 then simply to have a boon. Much like a stun brake is less effect then simply having stab for some reason anet is saying passive def is better then active def. That a real problem and the ele class feels it a bit more for support out put then others classes.

For a class like ele the 1 skill is more then just an auto attk it is a true skill and every other 1 skill ele has dose something beyond just simple dmg it may be aoe or have a condi or even have a heal but this one skill dose NOTHING and it just pitiful that it not been given any type of effect other then more dmg and it still is some of the weakest non aoe dmg ele has. Your trying to def it but your not giving a real reason why its ok as is only that its a skill and because there are other skills in the game that ele could use over it some how that ok its a pointless skill. At that point why not just delete it and make it so scepter 1 for water has nothing but a blank spaces.

Ele is far from ok it at the last ditch class type the healing and that only viable because the tempest line is able to do both dmg healing well to the point of simply overshadowing the ele other core lines. With out tempest ele would of been a dead class altogether.

On a note to you Feanor your defining Anet a lot kind of a crazy amount with a major lack of reasons and thoughts of your own. Simply saying its ok is not good enofe to make a point. Your not helping the Ele community, the GW2 community, and the Anet devs them self. Its being an enabler mind set and it tends to cause more harm then good.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

(edited by Jski.6180)

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Boon duration is free for the amount of stats used vs any other combo in the game. A free 33% from one sigil is out right silly and 33% from a simple passive from a class on an aoe is crazy making all classes in that pt specialization in boon duration even if they are not build for it. As things stand its harder and less effect to clear condis in gw2 then simply to have a boon. Much like a stun brake is less effect then simply having stab for some reason anet is saying passive def is better then active def. That a real problem and the ele class feels it a bit more for support out put then others classes.

Free? Both the sigil slots and the party slots are a limited resource. Using them for one thing means you can’t use them for others. Nothing ever is free. And of course passive defence is better. Not because ANet says so, because it is more reliable. There is less chance of you failing the timing to prevent an effect.

Ele is far from ok it at the last ditch class type the healing and that only viable because the tempest line is able to do both dmg healing well to the point of simply overshadowing the ele other core lines. With out tempest ele would of been a dead class altogether.

When was the last time you saw a core Warrior in the game? Elite specs are more powerful, that’s not news to anyone.

On a note to you Feanor your defining Anet a lot kind of a crazy amount with a major lack of reasons and thoughts of your own. Simply saying its ok is not good enofe to make a point. Your not helping the Ele community, the GW2 community, and the Anet devs them self. Its being an enabler mind set and it tends to cause more harm then good.

I’m not defending ANet per se. I’m objecting to poorly aimed criticism. I have 10+ years of experience in game development and while I’m not a game designer myself I’ve learned a lot for years of work and friendship with actual game designers. Please don’t take this personally, but I find the vast majority of the players have unrealistic expectations about the game design. The complaint about the autoattacks is a nice example. As a game designer, you don’t want to make the autoattacks very good. The reason being, if your autoattack is good your other skills will feel useless, leading to very boring 1-1-1-1-…. gameplay. See Revenant underwater combat for instance. As a game designer your job isn’t to make every skill powerful, it’s to make sure the resulting gameplay is fun.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

@ Feanor.2358
It is Free when your talking about adding in +33% for one slot. Its the most effect used of it and when you add in other support effects you can push 66% boon duration or past that 50% point that makes most strong boon effects perma for groups. This is all with out food build and armor type. This is all from just having added effects. Boon duration is a BIG problem in the game now.

When the last time you saw a core ele? Tempest is not the dmg line yet it dose more dmg then the core ele classes lines. It showing how bad the core ele lines are for any thing but noval dmg that are not part of the game any more and show a MAJOR let down of Anet for the ele class.

You are defining Anet by a lot and your still giving no reason why its ok. Ele spam 1 1 1 1 as is and most of its 1 skills do more then just dmg but for some reason your not even talking about the skill i put to you to expansible. If your a true game developer and you cant see a real problem with this skill as being a simply places holder then game developers are not that imaginative group of ppl.

I would think as a developer you would want to make the most used skill and effect the most “fun” and easy use effect in the game. For ele that is the 1 skill. That just simple logic.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

I would think as a developer you would want to make the most used skill and effect the most “fun” and easy use effect in the game. For ele that is the 1 skill. That just simple logic.

And it’s wrong. You never want to make the autos the most appealing skills. Have some effects – fine. Maybe even have them setup a combo. But the rest of the skills have to be better. Otherwise there’d be no point in using them ever.

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

There are two ways a developer can esteblish auto attacks: Placeholders or strong attacks if you build around it but never make an auto a strong attack on its own. This would be a hardcore design fail.

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Posted by: Kaibhan.4216

Kaibhan.4216

Auto-attacks are different in this game compared to others. Most auto-attacks in most games are a single attack filler to be essentially ignored while playing. In this game auto-attacks are essentially 3 skills the last of which usually has an added effect. It would be acceptable to make wanting to finish the auto attack chain once started preferable within the rotation irregardless of what’s come off cool down during the chain.

Auto-attacks don’t HAVE to be better that the other skills. They could be very well be the primary skill to be used while the other skills enhance and provide utility. Look at a D/F build in Air; the auto attack does the damage but every other skill in the set up provides utility that provides interesting decisions. I wouldn’t want to use that set up for dungeon running mind you but it is a viable way to set up a weapon combo for other areas of the game.

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Posted by: Waisenpai.6028

Waisenpai.6028

Feanor is wrong…. again about core. Core war GS and axe/shield is strong than Zerker GS axe and shield. Since stun heal bot has been countered and even more so after the nerf. GS and Hammer on vanilla outshines Zerker GS. Hammer any day. I mean do you even play wvw in NA. Guess not.

Min Min core d/d ele Borlis Pass Bunny Thumper

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Posted by: Waisenpai.6028

Waisenpai.6028

Also ele core is weaker because the next expansion will fix that as re roll Reaver. That’s a market ploy since guild wars 1. I’m older than most you guys so shhhh and let me drink my kitten beer forged from tears of former gamers past. Hey guys go to Turbine forums and yell at them for not loving AC1 anymore more. Or ask why Darkstone, Dungeon siege or Dragon Nest why guildwars 2 have many of their game elements. Don’t even get me going about lineage 2 or Aion. I mean WVW and WINGS.

Wait you got me off topic. Ele was the most popular profession in the game back on the day. So people have to beat them up. Make sense why would you want to make them par with other class. You’d have like an army of d/d eles like back in 2012 in wvw melting away the core scrub professions. Or 2014 Spvp core d/d ele rampage as you can fighty of 1v3 or 1v5 for 45 seconds to 2 mins. I’m sorry we caused many of the spvp nerfs in the game…. but it was great and you all loved in NA. EU was still using 2012s back in 2014.. good times!

Min Min core d/d ele Borlis Pass Bunny Thumper

(edited by Waisenpai.6028)

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Auto-attacks are different in this game compared to others. Most auto-attacks in most games are a single attack filler to be essentially ignored while playing. In this game auto-attacks are essentially 3 skills the last of which usually has an added effect. It would be acceptable to make wanting to finish the auto attack chain once started preferable within the rotation irregardless of what’s come off cool down during the chain.

Except not every auto is an attack chain. Especially not on ele.

Feanor is wrong…. again about core. Core war GS and axe/shield is strong than Zerker GS axe and shield. Since stun heal bot has been countered and even more so after the nerf. GS and Hammer on vanilla outshines Zerker GS. Hammer any day. I mean do you even play wvw in NA. Guess not.

No, I play in EU.

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Posted by: Kaibhan.4216

Kaibhan.4216

Auto-attacks are different in this game compared to others. Most auto-attacks in most games are a single attack filler to be essentially ignored while playing. In this game auto-attacks are essentially 3 skills the last of which usually has an added effect. It would be acceptable to make wanting to finish the auto attack chain once started preferable within the rotation irregardless of what’s come off cool down during the chain.

Except not every auto is an attack chain. Especially not on ele.

Had you kept reading you would of seen me address that a bit and give an example of it being ok. The whole point of my post is that the variety is more important than providing one actual way for auto-attacks. Fun is subjective and each player finds something different to be fun. There is no right way to do auto-attacks. Players need characters that provide a variety of ways to do them as an mmo’s game design will have differences to make different classes appeal to more people.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

I would think as a developer you would want to make the most used skill and effect the most “fun” and easy use effect in the game. For ele that is the 1 skill. That just simple logic.

And it’s wrong. You never want to make the autos the most appealing skills. Have some effects – fine. Maybe even have them setup a combo. But the rest of the skills have to be better. Otherwise there’d be no point in using them ever.

That the thing an Auto attks is just a simple attk with the base wepon not with the atument your in. The 1 skills for a lot of the classes are not true auto attks. When the ele is hitting ppl with the staff it self and not a fire ball then its an auto attk but when the ele is using a fire ball its using a fire ball not an auto attk. The 1 skills for scepter water is bad and needs to be updated and because its the lowest cd / cast time effects ele has it WILL be the most used effects.

Auto attks have no effects at all and are wepon hits only gw2 realty dose not have that. Its more on the lines of basic attks and most games have moved to this type of attk system.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Knuckle Joe.7408

Knuckle Joe.7408

I really don’t understand posts like these. Not trying to be rude or offensive, but it seems that the game doesn’t get much easier (in PvE) than playing tempest. You have tempest right? (Assuming you do cause you said warhorn was ok).

You got one of the strongest, hardest hitting spells in the game (which is also an AoE) on a 5-6 second recharge, plus you can move around while doing it. I’m talking about Overload air spam of course. It might not be the most fun build, but certainly one of the most effective. You got a strong heal, plus a moderate-to-strong heal in overload air, plus arcane shield if you are really having problems getting hit, and eye of the storm shout to make things easier.

DO FAST HANDS BASELINE

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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

I really don’t understand posts like these. Not trying to be rude or offensive, but it seems that the game doesn’t get much easier (in PvE) than playing tempest. You have tempest right? (Assuming you do cause you said warhorn was ok).

You got one of the strongest, hardest hitting spells in the game (which is also an AoE) on a 5-6 second recharge, plus you can move around while doing it. I’m talking about Overload air spam of course. It might not be the most fun build, but certainly one of the most effective. You got a strong heal, plus a moderate-to-strong heal in overload air, plus arcane shield if you are really having problems getting hit, and eye of the storm shout to make things easier.

So your argument is it’s ok that it’s a bad skill because TEMPEST can overload air? What about those lvling an ele who can’t use tempest, or game modes where you would die before you could get air ol off? Having an ability in an elite specialization is not justification for a weapon skill to be bad

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Posted by: Knuckle Joe.7408

Knuckle Joe.7408

I really don’t understand posts like these. Not trying to be rude or offensive, but it seems that the game doesn’t get much easier (in PvE) than playing tempest. You have tempest right? (Assuming you do cause you said warhorn was ok).

You got one of the strongest, hardest hitting spells in the game (which is also an AoE) on a 5-6 second recharge, plus you can move around while doing it. I’m talking about Overload air spam of course. It might not be the most fun build, but certainly one of the most effective. You got a strong heal, plus a moderate-to-strong heal in overload air, plus arcane shield if you are really having problems getting hit, and eye of the storm shout to make things easier.

So your argument is it’s ok that it’s a bad skill because TEMPEST can overload air? What about those lvling an ele who can’t use tempest, or game modes where you would die before you could get air ol off? Having an ability in an elite specialization is not justification for a weapon skill to be bad

if you don’t have tempest then use staff and learn to dance around lava font, ez. This game’s PvE is easy as cake, dunno why so much trouble, everything dies with 1-2 skills

DO FAST HANDS BASELINE

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Posted by: Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

Knuckle Joe.7408

What I find funny is that Anet sold GW2 on playing characters how you like. And you’re arguing that just play meta it’s soo easy why complain.

For comparison I have a necromancer in full viper’s gear, I can kill things soo much faster and the more the merrier. So far no ele build I’ve played can survive/handle the level of conditions, mobs, and equal damage output. I don’t expect them to play the same, but there should be comparable builds to handle those situations which the Ele severely lacks.

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Posted by: Kaibhan.4216

Kaibhan.4216

Knuckle Joe.7408

What I find funny is that Anet sold GW2 on playing characters how you like. And you’re arguing that just play meta it’s soo easy why complain.

For comparison I have a necromancer in full viper’s gear, I can kill things soo much faster and the more the merrier. So far no ele build I’ve played can survive/handle the level of conditions, mobs, and equal damage output. I don’t expect them to play the same, but there should be comparable builds to handle those situations which the Ele severely lacks.

Being able to play how you want to me means being able to find a build on a class that you click with. I wouldn’t expect every class has something I would enjoy. To address the comparison and talking about open world, I find that prior to hot everything just does so fast you can really overpower it. In the HoT areas the incoming damage really ramps up and Ele is much less forgiving (obviously) than necro.

For open world I found D/D to be the most fun and to help increase survivability I take blinding ashes in the fire line. Playing primarily in fire I’m always tossing burning on mobs which also puts a blind on them making their next attack miss. Between that and not standing in fire open world becomes a breeze.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

I really don’t understand posts like these. Not trying to be rude or offensive, but it seems that the game doesn’t get much easier (in PvE) than playing tempest. You have tempest right? (Assuming you do cause you said warhorn was ok).

You got one of the strongest, hardest hitting spells in the game (which is also an AoE) on a 5-6 second recharge, plus you can move around while doing it. I’m talking about Overload air spam of course. It might not be the most fun build, but certainly one of the most effective. You got a strong heal, plus a moderate-to-strong heal in overload air, plus arcane shield if you are really having problems getting hit, and eye of the storm shout to make things easier.

Out side of raids (the smallest part of pve) pve is a joke with how hard it is. GW2 is not a pve game out side of story. Most ppl are talking about pvp or wvw where balancing is important and realy the only places balancing is important.

Its pve that messing things up for ele balancing atm. Tempest should not be doing as high of dmg from its overloads as it is doing most of ele dmg should be coming from it wepon attks because tempest is a support def line where lines like fire and air are the high dmg lines and fire / air have no air overload effect maybe a swap effect but not overload. The thing is if they did kill this dmg and put it on the wepon like it should be it would kill any use tempest for pve to the point of not being used at all making it so ppl who play ele would not need to by the expason to get the elite spec.

Pve is bad for gw2 balancing and it should not be holding classes like ele hostages for most of the game of spvp and wvw even open world pve by raids (a dying game type more so now that you can get the best gear from it and that seems to be all that will be from it in the long run.)

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

(edited by Jski.6180)

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Auto-attacks are different in this game compared to others. Most auto-attacks in most games are a single attack filler to be essentially ignored while playing. In this game auto-attacks are essentially 3 skills the last of which usually has an added effect. It would be acceptable to make wanting to finish the auto attack chain once started preferable within the rotation irregardless of what’s come off cool down during the chain.

Except not every auto is an attack chain. Especially not on ele.

Had you kept reading you would of seen me address that a bit and give an example of it being ok. The whole point of my post is that the variety is more important than providing one actual way for auto-attacks. Fun is subjective and each player finds something different to be fun. There is no right way to do auto-attacks. Players need characters that provide a variety of ways to do them as an mmo’s game design will have differences to make different classes appeal to more people.

D/x builds work not because of Air auto, rather because of Fresh Air, most often with Air Overload which does the bulk of the damage. Variety is nice when you’re first encountering this class and getting the feel of it. After playing it for hundreds of hours, players tend to do the obvious, efficient thing. And it is very, very bad when this is the autoattack, because this makes the actual gameplay very boring. Even the simplistic D/x Fresh Air rotation has some gameplay in it. And while I agree fun is subjective, it is hard to imagine someone would find gameplay consisting of pressing “1” fun.

By the way, interrupting the auto is usually punishing. It is true for most (maybe all?) auto chains, it is also true for Fireball for instance.

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Posted by: Knuckle Joe.7408

Knuckle Joe.7408

Knuckle Joe.7408

What I find funny is that Anet sold GW2 on playing characters how you like. And you’re arguing that just play meta it’s soo easy why complain.

For comparison I have a necromancer in full viper’s gear, I can kill things soo much faster and the more the merrier. So far no ele build I’ve played can survive/handle the level of conditions, mobs, and equal damage output. I don’t expect them to play the same, but there should be comparable builds to handle those situations which the Ele severely lacks.

Well man, probably Ele is not for you, because power and condi tempest is easily on par with reaper dps, and sometimes above (big hitbox)

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

but auramancer is the only viable build in platinum and above (maybe),

I’ve seen at least one core ele in platinum, he was running a s/f FA ele with a mender’s amulet, and was utilizing the build as a 1v1 point holding build much in the same way scrapper engi is utilized. The guy I duo’ed with reverse engineered the build after the match and found it to be extremely effective.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube

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Posted by: Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

The core ele seems to be getting some type of buff in the coming update that may help.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
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Posted by: mygamingid.5816

mygamingid.5816

For comparison I have a necromancer in full viper’s gear, I can kill things soo much faster and the more the merrier. So far no ele build I’ve played can survive/handle the level of conditions, mobs, and equal damage output. I don’t expect them to play the same, but there should be comparable builds to handle those situations which the Ele severely lacks.

Eles are glass cannons: high damage, low sustain. You can build to be low damage, high sustain, but it’s difficult to get a good mix – particularly if you’re used to the much higher base health and extra health bar of Necromancers. Many Ele players rely on teammates and mechanics-based defense (e.g. dodge at the right time, stay out of red circles, etc.) for sustain, but that also cuts into offense.

The trick is finding that right balance of damage and sustain for your playstyle. Looking at your current build, I’d say that Earth/Fire lends itself to condi better than power, so I’d want to shift gear in that direction. With concerns about sustain, I’d recommend Carrion base, mixing in Dire later on, if needed. Both can be bought cheap with dungeon currency.

With the pending patch in September, I hesitate to recommend the 4xNightmare/2xTrapper Runes for your armor. Instead, I recommend Balthazar. With that and Smoldering Sigil in one weapon, you’ll have 85% burn duration, which will help a lot. Run a Malice Sigil in the other weapon for 10% global condi duration, taking your burns to 95%.

Finally, I’d swap the off-hand dagger for a warhorn, then switch to a 3-3-1 Tempest spec, which will give you a 20% boon duration boost (you seem to like that with your other gear) and Sand Squall if you’re hit below 90% health (great defensive power). You’ll also have Sand Squall on demand with Earth4 and Dust Storm with Earth5.

Build Example

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Posted by: tatamongus.4973

tatamongus.4973

This (admittedly old) post on Reddit helped me understand the synergies of the ele and build a satisfying PVE, open-world Elementalist:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3tbl7l/elementalist_open_world_builds/cx4udyh/