Grouch played Tempest at Gamescom
Thanks for the link. Very cool looking. I’m actually getting excited for the tempest.
Karl played it and got demolished. It was some of the worst beatings I ever saw I got so upset undid t see grouch play though
Link doesn’t play the video for me of course
Karl is a noob with elementalist it seems, watching Grouch, he made it look awesome. Watch the video. It wasn’t OP, but it showed some of the potential of the spec. It seems to have a lot of skill play to it and I think looks to be about a middle ground in terms of cpm (clicks per minute) between offhand dagger and focus. Offers tons of support, and during one play he got quickness, and well, with him passing his buffs along with +2 seconds, it is the elementalist boon bot. Funny enough though, he didn’t bother with a single shout, which is to be expected, but his auto cc cleanse shout was traited, which I guess gave him 1 shout. Either way, looks to bring some slight changes that may have big ramifications.
Grouch sucked at reaper though, but I think thats mainly because the GS is too slow for pvp and power necro is too frail, so no one will seriously use it. Cele reaper will probably be amazingsauce though.
And yeha I was surprised with Grouche’s ability to play tempest, considering he took fire over water.
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Ugh I wish this video would work for me
It not too bad at 1v1 by the looks of it but a lot of the wh skills are made for groups well the 2 major boon shair and boons lasting longer so trying to fight 1v1 as d/wh tempest seems kind of pointless you would be better off going d/d tempest or even staff tempest for 1v1.
I do not think fire 5 has boon removal any more or it only works at the start of the spell kind of lame though i understand not giving something like boon removal to the ele classes.
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Looks like he knows that shouts are so meh to be used.
If anything, this video made warhorn seem viable. Especially if he traited into water instead of tempest. Too bad we can’t use warhorn outside of tempest. (I think?) Seems really good. I don’t know about the tempest line itself though. Will need to try it for myself.
And of course he’s using resto signet + full cantrips BECAUSE ELES DON’T HAVE ANY OTHER VIABLE SKILLS. Alas Arenanet doesn’t seem to care at all for ele build variety.
Also, every single time he used an overload it either was completely useless (pityful damage with pityful range in fire, pityful healing in water) or he got instantly knocked out of if, as is to be expected. And he only used like 4 or 5 overloads over the whole game… such a dumb and boring mechanic.
(edited by SchmendrickTheMagician.8247)
ok warhorn looks better
shouts and overload still look fairly pointless though.
ok warhorn looks better
shouts and overload still look fairly pointless though.
Yeah warhorn certainly is the least worst thing about tempest, but having to use the useless tempest traitline for it just doesn’t make it worth. All the minor traits are for overloading which even Grouch almost never used. So, useless minors at least. And the major traits are either boring or underpowered, or again, trying to make overload usable. All 3 grandmasters basically suck – maybe the frost aura one doesn’t but it doesn’t belong in the tempest trait line, that’s clearly a water trait (like the adept vigor trait).
Well he was trying to make a fire/arcane/tempest build work, and we all know that cele builds without water are just asking to be food. If he did water/arcane/tempest and did defensive earth/water rotations properly, I’m sure we’d have a better idea of how strong it actually is.
We also know that using the water overload at all is generally a bad idea, while using the earth one looks strong, and two damage ones have some situational potential uses as well. Basically the reason it didn’t look that great was because these people don’t really know how to play base ele that well.
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(edited by nearlight.3064)
Of course warhorn is good! Its great actually
Also Grouch run with fire and no water and still had okish sustain.
And while im in no position to speak given that im probably meh at ele and the game now ,id say he didnt play the spec even remotely near the skill cap.
Things i noticed:
Air overload is insanely useless and still has low range.
Fire overload is very good even at start of fight JUST for the huge might stack for allies alone(with wh 4 you could nearly cap them :O )Lots of damage there too especially downed and on point pressure
Water overload seems to heal you too now at the end and i really think is usefull now !(maybe someone else was healing him though?!)
HE NEVER USED EARTH ONCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
Also when you leave the attunement after overloading the cd doesnt get reseted to 20 but it continues from where it left as long as its above 8/10 sec of course.Very important imho
And lastly Evasive Arcana seems to have an icd of 6ish sec instead of current 10??
You could dodge 2 times in water while you wait or overload if that is the case so you dont lose that much sustain.(arcane reduces overloads cd still)
Water overload is not best still in the long run for sustain but a burst heal at the right moment is always welcomed and you cant deny its importance
ps:Shouts are meh,elite is useless in the hectic pvp of gw2 and karl really sucks at his game
(edited by Avead.5760)
Also one thing I noticed is that they lowered the cooldown of Wildfire (warhorn 5).
Initially it was 40 seconds when shown to us, but here the cooldown is clearly 30 seconds, which was one of the few suggestions I gave for the warhorn weapon skills. Since grouch has pyromancer’s training on, he gets it to a 20 second cooldown. But I think 30 seconds is a fair base cooldown for this skill given how long it lasts, how much burning it can stack, and the fact that it does boon removal.
And lastly Evasive Arcana seems to have an icd of 6ish sec instead of current 10??
You could dodge 2 times in water while you wait or overload if that is the case so you dont lose that much sustain.(arcane reduces overloads cd still)
Evasive Arcana has a 10 second cooldown per attunement, so you typically only get one water dodge when you swap in, and then you swap back out of it as soon as you possibly can so its ready to swap back into and get another swap heal and dodge heal as much as possible.
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I know it has 10 in live server but i remember grouch passing fast through his traits and i think i saw an icd of 6.5?He did it twice and i saw it the second time as well
I really cant go watch the video now but i might do it later to make sure
I know it has 10 in live server but i remember grouch passing fast through his traits and i think i saw an icd of 6.5?He did it twice and i saw it the second time as well
I really cant go watch the video now but i might do it later to make sure
But this stream was on the live server.
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
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You can see it at around 1:45 at the video of here
Flame burst 6 3/4?? not sure it might be 1/4
On live it says 10 there.Well it isnt that much different but what i was trying to say is that it might be enough to get 2 water heals and get back some of the sustain you lose when you use the big heal overload in order to save someone right now
It would be nice if the fire overload was a growing AoE. Every pulse the tornado gets a bigger radius and affects more people. Say the first pulse hits only one target, while the final form hits ten targets. The overload has a longer channel than Meteor Shower and a higher cost, but it does way less in the current form.
The water overload should give you and allies around you a buff that increases incoming healing for some time. It locks you out of water, so it should give you more than just a little healing and condi removal.
(edited by Ignavia.7420)
It would be nice if the fire overload was a growing AoE. Every pulse the tornado gets bigger and affects more people. Say the first pulse hits only one target, while the final form hits ten targets. The overload has a longer channel than Meteor Shower and a higher cost, but it does way less in the current form.
The water overload should give you and allies around you a buff that increases incoming healing for some time. It locks you out of water, so it should give you more than just a little healing and condi removal.
I agree about water overload, its jsut not worth it in its current state.
For the fire overload, I think its main strength will be as a whirl finisher in wildfire to spread tons of burning, or in other fields for other beneficial effects.
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That Warhorn might be the key to Condi Ele builds.
And of course he’s using resto signet + full cantrips BECAUSE ELES DON’T HAVE ANY OTHER VIABLE SKILLS. Alas Arenanet doesn’t seem to care at all for ele build variety.
Also, every single time he used an overload it either was completely useless (pityful damage with pityful range in fire, pityful healing in water) or he got instantly knocked out of if, as is to be expected. And he only used like 4 or 5 overloads over the whole game… such a dumb and boring mechanic.
I don’t understand how a breakbar for all attunements isn’t either baseline for the tempest or at the very least a grandmaster trait.
That Warhorn might be the key to Condi Ele builds.
Even though the only damaging condition it has is Burning and lacks the cleansing, reflects, projectile destruction, and invulnerability of the Focus?
That Warhorn might be the key to Condi Ele builds.
Even though the only damaging condition it has is Burning and lacks the cleansing, reflects, projectile destruction, and invulnerability of the Focus?
Shh.. no logic allowed.
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Looks pretty bad from a competitive point of view, or it needs major buffs. Tempest does terrible damage, and warhorn feels slow, it has no range, no mobility, no cleanse, no invul, no leap, no dodge, no reflect, no mobility skill, and basically doesn’t do half the things you can do with focus or dagger offhand.
The only good think I see with warhorn is the boon sharing and the pull skill.
The utilities look nice but they aren’t as useful as cantrips.
(edited by Xillllix.3485)
All I got out of this is:
A. Warhorn is somehow still the least bad thing about this spec.
B. Fire Overload can work but only because how strong burning is right now with celestial specs
C. Water/air/earth overloads are useless, Air seems to do less than fire in a straight damage comparison and doesn’t give might nor add burning. Air needs a buff to maybe 3-5 vun per hit and a increase on the modifier. Maybe an AOE daze/stun upon completion of channel. Earth still could be good for running, ya know if you happen to be in earth for 5 seconds when you need to run. Water needs a major buff to compensate for the lockout.
D. Shouts, what shouts?
E. Temp is trash as far as traits go still 3 minors all used for the spec when every other class only use one…
F. Did they buff EA to synergize with tempest? Seriously just make it baseline…
Summary: still not impressed 3/10
Tempest seems to be trash as most of us speculated.
Tempest game-play still promotes ‘stance dancing’, therefore the wait to overload renders these skills ineffective, the long channels are still not worth the risks of standing there taking free damage (or interrupts) and locking out your attunements either.
The traits are incredibly underwheling as a whole, the minors all focus on Overload which you will surely spend the least amount of time doing, they are situational skills at best; that’s a huge waste of traits right there.
Shouts?… wot?
But we’ll see on Friday, though.
Only thing I really saw impressive was the Boon removal on Fire 5. Everything else was pretty much meh. Most overloads, when used, were interrupted and most Warhorn skills simply would have been better with /Dagger.
Now to be objective, this could be because as a “Front Line” character it’s designed to really shine in a group WvW environment but we’ll have to wait for this weekend to see (I don’t have high expectations regardless).
From what I watched, it just looked like more celestial/cleric DD gameplay, he was even using cantrips the entire time and water/arcane for most of it. Never even touched a shout, hardly ever used the Overcharge ability, and did not spend one measly second in earth attunement.
DD is fun and all, probably what I play the most with my elementalist. But this class is so royally screwed every which way when it comes to build diversity that I cannot understand how we, more than any other class, did not get mechanics heavily encouraging new playstyles and buildpaths.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
Not very impressed.
1. As others have said, focus is clearly the best part of tempest, and it doesn’t really fit well: as slow as focus with less defense compared to both dagger and focus. It has slightly more CC than both, but it is harder to land (instant updraft is just better). The support mostly comes through heals in water, which amounts to less than staff or even the projectile hate on focus. It isn’t that focus is bad, it just lacks a real identity and synergy with the tempest spec.
2. Overloads are never worth casting with the double-penalty of pre-charging and attunement lock-out. The effects are lacklaster both during the channel and at the end, which is especially disappointed seeing how long the cast times are.
3. So ele is still water/arcana/X cele with cantrips? WHAT A DIFFERENT ROLE!!
4. Hahahaha…shouts.
5. Hahaha…all those traits that honestly just belong in other trees being the only good ones (vigor, prot+, and aura healing).
(edited by BlackBeard.2873)
I would use shouts without tempest if they have a lower cooldown :-). But in current state tempest looks to offer one or two team support builds that do way less damage then current builds and thats it. Looks booring.
Not very impressed.
1. As others have said, focus is clearly the best part of tempest, and it doesn’t really fit well: as slow as focus with less defense compared to both dagger and focus. It has slightly more CC than both, but it is harder to land (instant updraft is just better). The support mostly comes through heals in water, which amounts to less than staff or even the projectile hate on focus. It isn’t that focus is bad, it just lacks a real identity and synergy with the tempest spec.
2. Overloads are never worth casting with the double-penalty of pre-charging and attunement lock-out. The effects are lacklaster both during the channel and at the end, which is especially disappointed seeing how long the cast times are.
3. So ele is still water/arcana/X cele with cantrips? WHAT A DIFFERENT ROLE!!
4. Hahahaha…shouts.
5. Hahaha…all those traits that honestly just belong in other trees being the only good ones (vigor, prot+, and aura healing).
By focus I think you mean Warhorn in some of those comparisons?
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just shows how dumb eles are atm, he mashes random buttons, doesn’t die and actually gets kills…. if i played like this on thief/ranger i would be dead 10 times in same fight
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+1 For the graphical design if not for overload and utility ideas
Does anyone notice that Grouch was playing with Marauder Amulet? I don’t think it’s a good idea to go semi-glass with a semi-melee range and 0 projectile defense. Probably why he has to use triple cantrip to boost his sustain up.
It doesn’t make sense to compare his game play to a standard d/d cele although I do agree that Overload damage needs to be buffed to justify its use and various trigger conditions.
just shows how dumb eles are atm, he mashes random buttons, doesn’t die and actually gets kills…. if i played like this on thief/ranger i would be dead 10 times in same fight
Nah — with the people he was fighting against you’d probably be “instagibbing” everyone and there’d be another 100 more “Nerf Ranger Longbow Ranger” and “Nerf Thief” threads. And by “instagibbing” I mean actually taking 2-5 seconds to kill them but for whatever reason they can’t manage to react in that timeframe.
Back on topic: All the concerns people have been voicing about Tempest appear to be true.
just shows how dumb eles are atm, he mashes random buttons, doesn’t die and actually gets kills…. if i played like this on thief/ranger i would be dead 10 times in same fight
Is that sarcasm? You can literally spam 2 on thief or ranger and get kills….
Does anyone notice that Grouch was playing with Marauder Amulet? I don’t think it’s a good idea to go semi-glass with a semi-melee range and 0 projectile defense. Probably why he has to use triple cantrip to boost his sustain up.
It doesn’t make sense to compare his game play to a standard d/d cele although I do agree that Overload damage needs to be buffed to justify its use and various trigger conditions.
Karl was even worse, he started out with celestial water/arcane/tempest after being guided by the player helping him, and the he basically said, “you know, I think I’d like to do more damage, I’ll use Crusader Amulet instead!!!!!11!” And the guy helping him just sort of went silent at that point, while Karl played around with it and got bodied with his 13K HP and 4% crit chance to use that horrible amulets 560 ferocity….
So basically we didn’t see any games running a sensible build at all, since no one actually ran water/tempest/arcane with cele to my knowledge. I’m excited to play it tomorrow though.
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
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Sadly, not even Grouch would touch Scepter in PVP
Does anyone notice that Grouch was playing with Marauder Amulet?
I only watched the first match but I was positive he put on the marauder but swapped and actually used a celestial amulet in the match. Which in and of itself just means that cele eles are really good, not that tempest is all that great.
Without rehashing to much, overloads still have too much risk not enough reward. Water overload doesn’t heal enough to justify dropping either the heal on attune from Water spec or EA heal, or even just messing up the rotation on both with the extended cooldown. The fire overloads area of affect is small enough that Grouch could drop it in the middle of the point and his enemy could still easily keep the point contested and avoid any damage from it. I still think a break bar for all attunments and major number buffs are needed.
I also noticed that Wildfire didn’t seem to remove boons – at least it wasn’t a pulsing removal, which is disappointing as it was one of the main skills on WH to look forward to. I thought the movement speed on water 5 was maybe a little to fast to be of any practical use. And Lightning Orb needs a serious damage boost. As a weapon skill that’s only purpose is dealing damage it is bad, the ticks were doing retribution level damage.
No he swapped from cele to marauder. I noticed it as well.
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No he swapped from cele to marauder. I noticed it as well.
Well that just makes the damage from fire overloads and lightning orb even more pathetic. When skills designed to inflict damage are barely overcoming the damage of retribution with a marauder amulet equip they need to be seriously buffed.
I watched more of it and gosh it looks so weak. I wonder what is the benefit of overloading since it doesn’t help in any way. New core mechanics should add something beneficial to the class.
We need to really let Anet know what doesn’t work with Tempest in the Beta forum threads so that perhaps they can fix it in time.
If it was cele amulet, he could have had 3-4k Burning per tick! From what he showed, Tempest doesn’t match the offensive play style. It took too long to 1v1 (against the other S/F fresh air) and it was too vulnerable against other power spike classes.
There’s just no reason to Overload. I like the idea, but it’s just way too weak to be usable right now. Why put myself in such a high risk scenario if my opponent can easily stop, avoid, or even tank the kitten thing? Why would he not just eat a tick of a Fire Overload, CC me out of it, and force me into using a Cantrip/Switching to Water/Earth/Air, and then I’m stuck without Fire’s damage for 20s? Same applies to any other attunement, except maybe Earth, but that one only seems good for escaping rather than setting up.
Warhorn is actually kinda cool, but needs tweaks as well. For one, the Water globe looks like it travels too fast for you to blast if you get crippled or chilled or whatever. Second, the damage on Air 5 is pathetic in any realistic scenario; the only way I can see it do a lot of damage is if someone eats ALL of the shots and well, that isn’t going to happen even if you use Air 4 immediately after. Earth 4 I feel is really weak(and boring).
The traits are incredibly dull and pretty weak for the most part.
Overall, I think the Tempest is trying to do so much stuff that it fails in all of them.
- It wants to be this High Risk, High Reward front-line caster, but fails to give us Stability or that actual reward to do so.
- The Warhorn wants to control boons, but more than half of the skills don’t DO anything with Boons. For example, Fire can spread and strip boons(This is actually pretty cool). Earth can extend the duration by 2s. That’s it. Where’s the boon manipulation you wanted? Are only 3 skills allowed to have this theme?
- The traits want you to be a front-line anti-CC support, but fail to realize that the best defense to CC is Stability, not AoE Stun Breaks. We also get very little options to make our mechanic more interesting, instead we have forced Minors that provide nothing to base Ele, really uninteresting traits(can’t get more boring than a passive boost to Protection…) that seem to belong more in Water(the Vigor trait and Aura one really don’t belong here).
- The Shouts are interesting, in that they provide every Ele build a consistent source of Auras, but the CDs on some of them are atrocious, the AoE Stun-Break isn’t terribly exciting(and it lacks an Aura too…), and the Elite is just really dull and seems out of place. I guess they want us to use Rebound to fix our high CD issue, which could be somewhat useful for Cantrips or other Utilities, but then the kitten Shout isn’t Instant, so it’s more of a hindrance than a help it seems.
tl;dr It’s trying too do way too much stuff without doing anything even half-decent.
Tempest right now seems like a mix of a billion ideas that go nowhere. I really want it to be awesome, but I just don’t see it being anything other than a joke in its current state. Hopefully I’ll change my mind in the BWE.
It doesnt need to be awesom. More power to eles would be bad. It should offer more build diversity so support eles weak build options.
From the theme tempest and adding new mechanics/skills its not a fail. But it simply adresses nothing eles want. It offers support and it can´t compensate the loss of the traitline you sacifice for taking tempest….
Its nice for auras and thats it.
Suggestion:
Latent stamia: Instead add a trait +condi damage (10% from vit)
Unstable Conduit: give stability on overload.
Decrease recharge on shouts 20% round down to 5.
I guess this would make tempest worth a try.
just shows how dumb eles are atm, he mashes random buttons, doesn’t die and actually gets kills…. if i played like this on thief/ranger i would be dead 10 times in same fight
Is that sarcasm? You can literally spam 2 on thief or ranger and get kills….
please show me, play vs anything decent and spam 2…. oh and record it please i would love to see it
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just shows how dumb eles are atm, he mashes random buttons, doesn’t die and actually gets kills…. if i played like this on thief/ranger i would be dead 10 times in same fight
Is that sarcasm? You can literally spam 2 on thief or ranger and get kills….
please show me, play vs anything decent and spam 2…. oh and record it please i would love to see it
Is an opinion. Whatever I show you you’ll simply say they weren’t decent enough to win the argument.
I am not wasting anymore time with this. If you have played the game longer than a month and not just troll forums its pretty obvious which classes can spam one skill vs which take actual thought out combos. Video proof is hardly needed when you can go play the game.
just shows how dumb eles are atm, he mashes random buttons, doesn’t die and actually gets kills…. if i played like this on thief/ranger i would be dead 10 times in same fight
Is that sarcasm? You can literally spam 2 on thief or ranger and get kills….
please show me, play vs anything decent and spam 2…. oh and record it please i would love to see it
Is an opinion. Whatever I show you you’ll simply say they weren’t decent enough to win the argument.
I am not wasting anymore time with this. If you have played the game longer than a month and not just troll forums its pretty obvious which classes can spam one skill vs which take actual thought out combos. Video proof is hardly needed when you can go play the game.
Also no one decent loses to an ele that’s just faceroll-spamming skills. The whole point was that Grouch was also playing against hotjoin-level players.