Guild Wars 2

This is mostly just showing off what I could do for signet of restoration with an absurd amount of healing power. Do not take this in any way serious or viable, but kitten it’s pretty fun.

I do think that the Signet needs some improvements, with them it could be rather good.

You must have about 1,200-1,500 Healing Power. I have 798 Healing Power and i get 282 per a cast.

1) Channels – I think skills like Drakes Breath and Cone of Cold should proc the heal on each tick of the channel. Using this heal and then channeled skills is a rather big Healing loss if you go during a reasonable fight.

or

2) Make it per a second. The fact that we have to keep using skills in order to get the heal is rather annoying and broken when you add in the long channel skills we have, the long cool down skills we have and the fact you can’t heal when stunned and such.

If we went with option 2 i think the Healing Per second would need to be improved as it would actually be a loss if it was changed to that but still kept the current healing. I think something in the region of 350-400Healing Per Second would be okay, considering our low health and low armor that is a decent amount

I’ve have literally exactly 2,000 healing power. Yeah, things could be changed, but I theory crafted how much healing power I could push my character to get.
I don’t really know if passive play is the way to go though. It’s unskilled and doesn’t promote skilled play.

Like I stated though, this is just a funny thread and not to be taken seriously.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I do think that the Signet needs some improvements, with them it could be rather good.

You must have about 1,200-1,500 Healing Power. I have 798 Healing Power and i get 282 per a cast.

1) Channels – I think skills like Drakes Breath and Cone of Cold should proc the heal on each tick of the channel. Using this heal and then channeled skills is a rather big Healing loss if you go during a reasonable fight.

I agree with your idea #1 because when you have confusion or enemy has retaliation it hits per every tick but our healing signet does not. I think our healing signet was meant to help counter confusion and retaliation but it doesn’t do its job with channeled skills. I am either up for it ticking per hit with channeled or retaliation and confusion being brought down to once per skill rather than per tick. Even if that means buffing confusion and retaliation damage.

Ancient Ranger.3276:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I do think that the Signet needs some improvements, with them it could be rather good.

You must have about 1,200-1,500 Healing Power. I have 798 Healing Power and i get 282 per a cast.

1) Channels – I think skills like Drakes Breath and Cone of Cold should proc the heal on each tick of the channel. Using this heal and then channeled skills is a rather big Healing loss if you go during a reasonable fight.

I agree with your idea #1 because when you have confusion or enemy has retaliation it hits per every tick but our healing signet does not. I think our healing signet was meant to help counter confusion and retaliation but it doesn’t do its job with channeled skills. I am either up for it ticking per hit with channeled or retaliation and confusion being brought down to once per skill rather than per tick. Even if that means buffing confusion and retaliation damage.

There would be some serious issues when it comes to meteor shower.

The Game Slayer.7632:

There would be some serious issues when it comes to meteor shower.

No it wouldnt, The heal is pathetically weak anyway. During the cast you would get what maybe 1k – 2k health. Depending on Healing power and how often it procs, this being Anet it would likely be once every 2 seconds so even that would reduce it.

Compared to Healing Signet, simply put – the heal is a joke.
A passive that heals for MORE and requires NO action on the player side

Vs

A passive that heals for LESS and requires us to pretty much spam auto attacks just to get healing.

Warrior healing signet heals for more than that and is passive

Thats with 0 points in healing.

phaeris.7604:

Warrior healing signet heals for more than that and is passive

Thats with 0 points in healing.

Yea man, It was just a joke. I just wanted to show that signet of resto ‘can’ heal for more than healing signet. It’s pretty neat, you’ve got to admit. (makes me wonder why signet of resto isn’t already at like 400 because I’m still dying quite a bit)

phaeris.7604:

Warrior healing signet heals for more than that and is passive

Thats with 0 points in healing.

How much does it heal exactly per second? Is it the 392 listed on the wiki? Let’s compare it to the ele.

At 0 healing power, the ele gets:
Soothing Mist: 80 hp/s
Regeneration: 130 hp/s
Signet of Restoration passive: 202 hp/s
Signet of Restoration active: 131 hp/s
Total: 543 hp/s (412 without Written in Stone)

So assuming you get all the basics, and excluding any heals from weapons, the ele gets more healing than the warrior gets from their signet (you could lose one of them, but then there’s still the weapon heals so that balances it).

Oh look, an absurd amount of healing power and it still heals for less per second than the non-scaling warrior healing signet which the developers claim would be ‘unfair’ to nerf.

ThiBash.5634:

phaeris.7604:

Warrior healing signet heals for more than that and is passive

Thats with 0 points in healing.

How much does it heal exactly per second?

392 with just the Signet, no healing Power or anything. So in a way ours is stronger but it requires CONSTANT skill use to be able to get it like that. I think only D/D can keep up with it – if they constantly keep up using skills. Would only be skills that have a cast time of 1/2 second or less.

Then again, ours is 202 per a cast with no healing Power or anything so if you manage to get 2 casts of every second for say a fight that lasts 10seconds. They would get 3,920 healing and we would get 4,040 if we used ONLY Auto attacks from Dagger/Dagger (ignoring Earth as it has a 3/4second cast time) the rest are all 1/2 second so if they have no aftercast or anything we would get an amazing – 120 extra healing, all that for having to spam attacks for the WHOLE of the 10 second fight…

Personally, i don’t it is really worth the trade off. Now we then have to account for all the instant cast skills, but then account for the very long cool downs they have as well…

ThiBash.5634:

At 0 healing power, the ele gets:
Soothing Mist: 80 hp/s
Regeneration: 130 hp/s
Signet of Restoration passive: 202 hp/s
Signet of Restoration active: 131 hp/s
Total: 543 hp/s (412 without Written in Stone)

So assuming you get all the basics, and excluding any heals from weapons, the ele gets more healing than the warrior gets from their signet (you could lose one of them, but then there’s still the weapon heals so that balances it).

So now having to make assumptions on what attunement the they are in, AND having to spend trait points. I was actually being fair with mine. None had any traits or anything.

But okay.

regeneration = 20 Point Trait
Soothing Mists = 5ppoint trait

Adrenal health = 15 Trait points 125 – 360Healing Per 3 seconds. Lets say for arguments sake they have full adrenaline. That is 360 Healing every 3 seconds. Which is 120Healing Per second. Taking this trait then means Healing Signet heals for 400 Per a second, combined with AH that is 520Healing Per a second if they don’t use Burst skills.

So it takes An ele using Healing Signet 25 Trait points to get 207 Healing Per a cast. Lets assume that the Ele stays in Water for the whole fight and just uses Auto attack

207 × 20 = 4,140
So that is Signet of Restoration does 4140 Healing in 10 seconds

816 × 1 = 816
Water Attunement heal is 816 in 10 seconds, lasts for 6 seconds but stays in water

825 × 1 = 825
Soothing Mists lasts 10 seconds so it heals for 825

So that makes it
4140 + 816+ 825 = 5,781.
That is how much healing The Ele would get spamming auto attack for the whole 10 seconds.

400 × 10 = 4,000
That is the healing done by Healing Signet

360 × 3 = 1,080
That is how much Healing Signet would heal in 9seconds. As it procs every 3 seconds

4,000 + 1,080 = 5,080
That is how much healing the Warrior would take in 10 seconds…without doing ANYTHING

So the Ele, has to spend 25 Trait points Vs 15 AND use auto attack in Water to get a massive 701 extra healing in that time…

Lets not forget that Healing Signet active would be 3,560 Vs 3,300 and have a 5second lower cool down. Hell the VERY base with just the healing signet is ONLY 25 healing LESS than the healing of Restoration WITH 150healing power and STILL is 5 seconds lower cool down.

I’ve updated my post and made some calculations on how much healing we can get as an ele (with almost 0 trait investment) compared to the warrior.

ThiBash.5634:

I’ve updated my post and made some calculations on how much healing we can get as an ele (with almost 0 trait investment) compared to the warrior.

Updated my post as well

Well, i once counted the average skill usage in actual combat for fairly spammy d/d (for myself that is), got somewhere around 0.7-0.8 casts per second.

Why is there regen and such included? those are additional investments into traits/weapon choices, both of which warriors can do too to boost the healing.

Strang.8170:

Well, i once counted the average skill usage in actual combat for fairly spammy d/d (for myself that is), got somewhere around 0.7-0.8 casts per second.

Why is there regen and such included? those are additional investments into traits/weapon choices, both of which warriors can do too to boost the healing.

Exactly, i tried to make it so that it was just the healing Signet Vs Restoration, but someone had to include traits. So i did the same, even spent 15 traits less and only came out as like 700 healing less in 10 seconds and that is with the Warrior doing NOTHING and the Ele going into Water at the very start and then spamming Auto Attack which is 1/2 second cast.

It becomes a bit fuzzy when other skills and such are included but even then when taking account of the cool downs and such i dont think it would make such a huge difference in the end.

Edit: Ooups, slowpoked. Nwm.

Whenever I roll in water attunement, It heals for a total of 7k. Regen from water attune gives me about 2.6k, (regen is like 300-400).
What I think is the most important thing about this is my attack and armor.
Im sitting at 3k attack, and 2.5k armor. Ofc, I hit like a wet noodle, but essentially I am this.

@Thibash you must add in adrenal health every warrior take it. 15 points in defense/healing power line.

@gameslayer Full clerics is fun you can actually kill in full clerics if you put on boon duration. If you come across another bunker then you can’t or extra tanky warrior also. Anyone running semi glassy you can kill though.

This is kind of why I feel elementalist damage that gets complained about alot is fine. You do more damage in full healing gear then a Guardian can even think about. It is much easier for me to kill in 0/10/0/30/30 in clerics on my ele then it is on 0/0/10/30/30 for guardian which is essentially 30 water 30 arcana for them. Key ingredient why they can’t do it is fury is very limited on a guardian even with meds.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Whenever I roll in water attunement, It heals for a total of 7k. Regen from water attune gives me about 2.6k, (regen is like 300-400).
What I think is the most important thing about this is my attack and armor.
Im sitting at 3k attack, and 2.5k armor. Ofc, I hit like a wet noodle, but essentially I am this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y

You have those stats along with 2k healing power? Sounds really interesting. How much Crit Damage though?

We have builds that work incredibly well with this heal. Stop crying because staff isn’t amazing with it.

There are multiple heals on each class so people can theory craft different builds.

I use two skills per second on average. I’m a d/d ele, and I know S/D eles can use many more.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Exactly, i tried to make it so that it was just the healing Signet Vs Restoration, but someone had to include traits.

But as you can see, they do make a difference. In your example, you have the elementalist auto-attacking in water only. In a real fight, the ele would also get their weapon’s healing skills, but soothing mist and regeneration probably wouldn’t get full uptime. But at the same time, the ele could get either healing ripple or lingering elements. Then again, the warrior could get regeneration from an ally. So that makes the actual combat fairly complex. And I can see how you want to avoid that.

However, isolating an issue only works if you can logically assume that there are no other factors and in this case, that doesn’t apply.

My main point here is that if you look at the skills in a vaccuum, you don’t get a fair picture. The warrior wins if it’s just the signet. But if you look at the professions as a whole, then eles can have more (semi-)passive healing than the warrior. But even that doesn’t mean the ele will win because there’s also armor, defensive utilities, etc.

oZii.2864:

@Thibash you must add in adrenal health every warrior take it. 15 points in defense/healing power line.

Yeah, sorry about that. Ash did a good job with the calculations though, so I’ll not redo them.

If you want to compare healing signets, the best IMO is signet of malice from the thief. No internal cooldown, and triggers for every hit. In the right circumstances, things get ridiculous.

For example, in a CoE run recently I picked up FGS on my thief and did Fiery Rush into subject alpha. I was nearly dead, and it brought me back to full almost instantly, healing me from 3K health to max (12k) in a moment.

But I digress: yeah the healing signets for Elementalists and Necromancers need work. Warriors get the highest passive heal, Guardians get passive condi cleanse and a very large active heal, thieves have no cooldown so their passive heal can burst for massive amounts, and mesmers get decent passive heal along with an instant phantasm recharge.

Signet of Restoration is just so… plain. It heals slowly and for very little when attacking, and upon activation it heals for very little again. Seriously, Signet of Restoration and Signet of Malice heal for the exact same amount on active, but Signet of Malice recharges 10 seconds quicker. It just doesn’t seem fair… I guess Anet is trying to balance around Written in Stone, but they aren’t doing it very well.

I’d say Signet of Restoration needs to do something else. The whole “heal on cast” thing is just a watered down version of malice. I suppose you could “fix” this issue by making restoration heal for 66% more health at base, but just making Signet of Restoration stronger feels like a waste of creativity.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Signet of Restoration is just so… plain. It heals slowly and for very little when attacking, and upon activation it heals for very little again.

Yet when traited you can get both active and passive, and due to the weapon healing skills, it’s not the only source of ‘healing while attacking’. Other professions don’t have those. My guess it’s balanced around that concept, because it’d get too powerful otherwise.

Healing Signet is not so good yet not so bad right now.I mean for smallscale situations and by smallscale i really mean the small part, it is strong cause it helps the elementalist to stay on the offensive all the time, while the other heals just will make the ele go out of the hot zone to heal back up and in again which is lost precious time.On larger scale situations though, if you make one mistake and they manage to get you 60% or less you are screwed.There is no way you will be able to get back fast enough with Signet of Restoration and all that is left is for you to disengage.

I hate passive heals too, also the signet becomes a heavy disadvantage VS the condi meta, when every noob can stack on you 15 Confusion stacks and thats game over if you keep on hitting the air with 1.

ThiBash.5634:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Signet of Restoration is just so… plain. It heals slowly and for very little when attacking, and upon activation it heals for very little again.

Yet when traited you can get both active and passive, and due to the weapon healing skills, it’s not the only source of ‘healing while attacking’. Other professions don’t have those. My guess it’s balanced around that concept, because it’d get too powerful otherwise.

The thing with traiting for written in stone is that you’re combining very little with very little. Even with Written in Stone, the signet feels weak.

ThiBash.5634:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Exactly, i tried to make it so that it was just the healing Signet Vs Restoration, but someone had to include traits.

But as you can see, they do make a difference. In your example, you have the elementalist auto-attacking in water only. In a real fight, the ele would also get their weapon’s healing skills, but soothing mist and regeneration probably wouldn’t get full uptime. But at the same time, the ele could get either healing ripple or lingering elements. Then again, the warrior could get regeneration from an ally. So that makes the actual combat fairly complex. And I can see how you want to avoid that.

However, isolating an issue only works if you can logically assume that there are no other factors and in this case, that doesn’t apply.

My main point here is that if you look at the skills in a vaccuum, you don’t get a fair picture. The warrior wins if it’s just the signet. But if you look at the professions as a whole, then eles can have more (semi-)passive healing than the warrior. But even that doesn’t mean the ele will win because there’s also armor, defensive utilities, etc.

That is true if they use the other skills as well but Cone of cold would only tick once and Cleansing Wave has a rather long cool down. Which at base heals for 1,352 on a 40 second cool down that is 33.8Healing Per second which again isn’t really that great.

Also have to remember that healing is when the Warrior is doing NOTHING. If they attacked with say Hammer, how much healing would the Ele lose out on? Because Signet of Restoration ONLY works while attacking, if you are stunned, knocked down or what ever then you get no healing at all from it.

Though we were simply comparing Healing Signet to Signet of Restoration, granted you added traits and so did i, even if i spent 15 trait points Vs your 25 trait points.

Though we also then get into the health each class has, the armor, the skills. So really it would be to hard to really compare them, though saying that i think the conditions that Warrior has would be enough to negate the passive healing the ele has, then you have the Hammer which would do a good job at stopping the Signet of Restoration heal as well.

I wonder, if the heal would be better suited for when you take damage, rather than when you deal it? Say given a set % of damage dealt is returned as healing. Because i find the current version having to spam skills and auto attacks to get healed is rather a poor design.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The thing with traiting for written in stone is that you’re combining very little with very little. Even with Written in Stone, the signet feels weak.

Ok, let’s compare them. At 0 healing power:

Healing Signet

Active: 3,275/20=163.8 hp/s
Active (signet mastery): 3,275/16=204.7 hp/s
Passive: 392 hp/s

Signet of Restoration

Active: 3,275/25=151hp/s
Active (signet mastery): 3,275/20=163.8 hp/s
Passive: 202 hp/c

So even with Written in Stone, Signet of Restoration is weaker right? Well, let’s assume the ele is running a D/D build. This means they also have acces to Cone of Cold and Cleansing Wave. Again, at 0 healing power:

D/D ele

SoR Passive: 202 hp/c
Cone of Cold: 74 hp/s
Cleansing Wave: 32.5 hp/s
Combined @ 1 spell per second: 308.5 hp/s

With no traits and 0 healing power. Still below the warrior’s passive huh? So why is SoR balanced when it clearly requires multiple traits and healing power to surpass Healing Signet?

Well, that’s the thing: it may require traits to surpass Healing Signet, but when you do add them, the ele completely blows the warrior out of the water in terms of passive heals. Note that both now gained 150 healing power.

Warrior with Adrenal Health

HS Passive: 392 hp/s
Adrenal Health: 127.5 hp/s
Combined: 519.5 hp/s

D/D ele with 15 pts in Water Magic

SoR Passive: 217 hp/c
Cone of Cold: 78.8 hp/s
Cleansing Wave: 36.5 hp/s
Soothing Mist: 87.5 hp/s
Healing Ripple: 145.2
Combined, at 1 spell per second: 565 hp/s

This means that the D/D ele outheals the warrior if both invest 15 trait points. While this is a simplification of actual combat, do note that the ele will also benefit more from healing power than the warrior. This means that the 2 skills are actually fairly equal. HS performs better without investment, SoR better with investment.

The problem with balancing these signets is that if you balance Signet of Restoration to match Healing Signet, it’ll become far too powerful when the ele starts gearing and traiting. By contrast, if you make it balanced when the ele is traited, it’ll be lackluster without traits.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Though we were simply comparing Healing Signet to Signet of Restoration, granted you added traits and so did i, even if i spent 15 trait points Vs your 25 trait points.

As you can see in the example above, even at just 15 trait points, the ele outheals the warrior.

ThiBash.5634:

As you can see in the example above, even at just 15 trait points, the ele outheals the warrior.

Though you are missing the glaring issue: The fact that the Ele is forced into a specific atatunement and has to cast skills and use skills (CoC and CW) in order to beat a Warrior that is doing NOTHING…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Though you are missing the glaring issue: The fact that the Ele is forced into a specific atatunement and has to cast skills and use skills (CoC and CW) in order to beat a Warrior that is doing NOTHING…

You mean forcing the elementalist to be played like an elementalist? Switching into attunements and using a few skills is part of our normal gameplay.

I’m with you here Thibash, there’s a reason eles have a deep skill floor and high skill ceiling.

I don’t want to be warrior 2.0, and to be honest other than the fact that warriors can run away far too easily, I don’t want warriors to be nerfed to their former level of uselessness. Good players are already handicapped on warriors. It’s just the bad ones who start to pose an issue.

Just informing you that real cooldown with “on attunement” type of effects is 11.25s. 10s attunement cooldown when you leave it, but you can´t leave it before the 1.25s cooldown from when you swap into it has gone, so 11.25 in total minimum.

It´s impossible gain absolute maximum healing per second from cleansing wave and water swaps both because swapping to water on cooldown means that there´s extra 3.75s where your cleansing wave is off cd but you´re out of water.

Giving signet proc rate of once a second is rather generous like i earlier pointed.

And finaly, all the above describes ele playing his character perfectly, not getting chilled/interrupted, and stopping to do the healing when it´s off cd despite what situation calls for.
Meanwhile warrior can sit there spamming autotattack and receive almost equal healing.

ThiBash.5634:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Though you are missing the glaring issue: The fact that the Ele is forced into a specific atatunement and has to cast skills and use skills (CoC and CW) in order to beat a Warrior that is doing NOTHING…

You mean forcing the elementalist to be played like an elementalist? Switching into attunements and using a few skills is part of our normal gameplay.

what Ele stays in Water for that long? Warrior gets just as good healing no matter what weapon they are using and without even having to do anything so you can’t really compare them.

Warrior will get the exact same healing no matter what he is doing (unless he uses the heal active) An ele has to be in Water, has to attack. All a warrior has to do is equip and hes done.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

what Ele stays in Water for that long?

Long? Just for casting Cone of Cold and (once every 4 swaps) Cleansing Wave? Once the ele starts casting Cone of Cold, they can swap. The total time in water magic for this scenario is 1 or 2 seconds per swap.

Warrior gets just as good healing no matter what weapon they are using and without even having to do anything so you can’t really compare them.

That’s how I compare them. Warrior gets good healing regardless of what they use, but eles can get insane healing if they spec right. That’s why SoR is currently balanced. Because there are specs out there that can totally abuse it with minimal effort. A D/D ele can get more healing than a warrior after spending just 15 trait points. If they go Evasive Arcana/Elemental Attunement or Written in Stone/Signets, they can outperform the warrior by 50% or more.

Warrior will get the exact same healing no matter what he is doing (unless he uses the heal active) An ele has to be in Water, has to attack. All a warrior has to do is equip and hes done.

Exactly. So it’ll never be better than that. The ele on the other hand, can get a lot of extra health from healing power, which buffs both the signet active, passive, weapon and trait heals.

The reason you cannot make Signet of Restoration as powerful as Healing Signet is because of the rest of the skills in the elementalist’s depot of weapons because for some reason, the word for depot of weapons gets censored.

Strang.8170:

Just informing you that real cooldown with “on attunement” type of effects is 11.25s. 10s attunement cooldown when you leave it, but you can´t leave it before the 1.25s cooldown from when you swap into it has gone, so 11.25 in total minimum.

It´s impossible gain absolute maximum healing per second from cleansing wave and water swaps both because swapping to water on cooldown means that there´s extra 3.75s where your cleansing wave is off cd but you´re out of water.

Giving signet proc rate of once a second is rather generous like i earlier pointed.

And finaly, all the above describes ele playing his character perfectly, not getting chilled/interrupted, and stopping to do the healing when it´s off cd despite what situation calls for.
Meanwhile warrior can sit there spamming autotattack and receive almost equal healing.

All of that is true. In the example though, I’ve looked at balanced D/D specs. Not ‘lets get as much healing as possible builds’. If you add Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana to the mix, and buff up your healing power, you can get much, much more healing than the warrior ever will.

The problem with Signet of Restoration is that the rest of the ele’s skills scale so well with healing power. A bunker warrior doesn’t get much extra from healing power. An ele can pretty much double their hp/s. You cannot buff Signet of Restoration without considering those bunkers and all the other heals they get.

There was a reason SoR was nerfed for sPvP. The meta shift allows for it to be unnerfed. But buffing it beyond that can make for indestructible ele bunkers.

So if you wanna buff SoR, go ahead. But don’t look at it in isolation, because that will cause problems.

Do you understand my point?

ThiBash.5634:

The reason you cannot make Signet of Restoration as powerful as Healing Signet is because of the rest of the skills in the elementalist’s kitten nal.

It will NEVER be as strong as Healing Signet, everyone knows it. Persoanlly i don’t like the current PER a cast design. Personally think it would be better when you take damage and it heals you for a set % of the damage taken or something.

Though, i don’t think we will ever have it “just right” currently its on the extreme side with Healing Signet on one side where you do nothing and the ele on the other side where you have to be using/spamming skills to be getting heals.

ThiBash.5634:

Strang.8170:

Just informing you that real cooldown with “on attunement” type of effects is 11.25s. 10s attunement cooldown when you leave it, but you can´t leave it before the 1.25s cooldown from when you swap into it has gone, so 11.25 in total minimum.

It´s impossible gain absolute maximum healing per second from cleansing wave and water swaps both because swapping to water on cooldown means that there´s extra 3.75s where your cleansing wave is off cd but you´re out of water.

Giving signet proc rate of once a second is rather generous like i earlier pointed.

And finaly, all the above describes ele playing his character perfectly, not getting chilled/interrupted, and stopping to do the healing when it´s off cd despite what situation calls for.
Meanwhile warrior can sit there spamming autotattack and receive almost equal healing.

All of that is true. In the example though, I’ve looked at balanced D/D specs. Not ‘lets get as much healing as possible builds’. If you add Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana to the mix, and buff up your healing power, you can get much, much more healing than the warrior ever will.

The problem with Signet of Restoration is that the rest of the ele’s skills scale so well with healing power. A bunker warrior doesn’t get much extra from healing power. An ele can pretty much double their hp/s. You cannot buff Signet of Restoration without considering those bunkers and all the other heals they get.

There was a reason SoR was nerfed for sPvP. The meta shift allows for it to be unnerfed. But buffing it beyond that can make for indestructible ele bunkers.

So if you wanna buff SoR, go ahead. But don’t look at it in isolation, because that will cause problems.

Do you understand my point?

Warrior with cleric gear healing singet adrenal heal and either shouts heal or banner regen is some pretty insane healing.

Agree with Chuck here… have you ever seen a banner regen warrior in wvw? A friend of mine would go /dance in the middle of siege while being rushed and arrow carted… and come out unscathed. It was unreal… Granted, he did squat for damage, but it was funny as hell to watch. Besides, the issue with warrior HS vs ele healing is that warriors can maintain higher sustained damage + CC while healing a ridiculous amount. And ele that wants to achieve that sustain does far less damage and CC.

Back to the OPs post – pretty funny..

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ThiBash.5634:

The reason you cannot make Signet of Restoration as powerful as Healing Signet is because of the rest of the skills in the elementalist’s kitten nal.

It will NEVER be as strong as Healing Signet, everyone knows it. Persoanlly i don’t like the current PER a cast design. Personally think it would be better when you take damage and it heals you for a set % of the damage taken or something.

Though, i don’t think we will ever have it “just right” currently its on the extreme side with Healing Signet on one side where you do nothing and the ele on the other side where you have to be using/spamming skills to be getting heals.

Like signet of Vamperism for Necros who never use that? They can’t even touch a elementalists sustain/burst healing and they get a really weak version of life style on this.

Per cast is fine.

Suggestions = turn Ele in warriors.

Nobody complains about SOR because you have to do something to get the heals

The problem with SOR is channel skills have channels proc the heal should fix the problem with other sets not being able to maximize the heal.

oZii.2864:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ThiBash.5634:

The reason you cannot make Signet of Restoration as powerful as Healing Signet is because of the rest of the skills in the elementalist’s kitten nal.

It will NEVER be as strong as Healing Signet, everyone knows it. Persoanlly i don’t like the current PER a cast design. Personally think it would be better when you take damage and it heals you for a set % of the damage taken or something.

Though, i don’t think we will ever have it “just right” currently its on the extreme side with Healing Signet on one side where you do nothing and the ele on the other side where you have to be using/spamming skills to be getting heals.

Like signet of Vamperism for Necros who never use that? They can’t even touch a elementalists sustain/burst healing and they get a really weak version of life style on this.

Per cast is fine.

Suggestions = turn Ele in warriors.

Nobody complains about SOR because you have to do something to get the heals

The problem with SOR is channel skills have channels proc the heal should fix the problem with other sets not being able to maximize the heal.

To be fair, they nerfed that skill into the ground before they released it. It was actually pretty decent before they nerfed it, removed stuff and added a 1second ICD. Had it stayed the way it was in the previews i think more people would actually use it.

Don’t give eles a Healing Signet. Give them a Signet of Malice instead….

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

It will NEVER be as strong as Healing Signet, everyone knows it.

Funny how you dismiss several posts of arguments and calculations just by saying that. I think I’m done discussing things with you. In general I mean. It always ends up the same way. No arguments, just repeating that you’re right and that everyone agrees with you.

ThiBash.5634:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

It will NEVER be as strong as Healing Signet, everyone knows it.

Funny how you dismiss several posts of arguments and calculations just by saying that. I think I’m done discussing things with you. In general I mean. It always ends up the same way. No arguments, just repeating that you’re right and that everyone agrees with you.

I am talking about How strong it is as a heal, comparing Healing Signet to Signet of Restoration ALONE nothing else, Healing Signet is MILES better. Anyone can see that. For you to have to spend trait points and use other skills JUST to be a tiny bit better than a Heal that is equip and forget, no constant skill use to get healed or anything.

I do Kinda like the Signet of Malice idea, Heal per a target hit would be a nice change i think, not really a fan of the spam auto attacks even if you are hitting no one just to get heals way that it currently is.

I have already proven that using the heal Vs Heal which one is better. That is simply it. Having to go into other skills and gain traits to make it just a little better while continually having to use skills Vs someone who equips it and does nothing says it all.

Though it is strange that a class that has so much more health and armor from the start, has better defensive skills and on lower cool downs as well also need a heal that is that much stronger than ours…

Fine, Healing Signet is better. But that doesn’t mean anything, because skills and traits cannot be compared without considering everything else.

ThiBash.5634:

Fine, Healing Signet is better. But that doesn’t mean anything, because skills and traits cannot be compared without considering everything else.

You compared SoR with Soothing Mists, Regen and using the heals in Water against Healing Signet and Adrenal Healing. Could we take into account the immunity skills and such that the warrior has?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

You compared SoR with Soothing Mists, Regen and using the heals in Water against Healing Signet and Adrenal Healing. Could we take into account the immunity skills and such that the warrior has?

It’s not just that we can do that, we should do that. And on the ele’s side as well. Consider Mist Form, Endure Pain, Signet of Earth, Shield Stance… whatever skills that may affect the balance position of the signets, and then compare them. Not without traits, skills and stats, because that doesn’t say anything.

I would say that even the defensive skills, warrior is better. Better duration, lower cool down the works. I wish that Arcane Shield was turned into Arcane Aura:

Arcane Aura:
Grant yourself an Aura based on your attunement.
Fire: Fire Shield – 5 second duration
Water: Frost Aura – 5 second duration
Air: Shocking Aura – 5 second duration
Earth: Magnetic Aura – 5 second duration
45second cool down

This would in my opinion be a MUCH better skill than Arcane Shield is currently. Would be useful for every build, every weapon as well as each of them are missing Aura that would really benefit them.

Maybe skill for skill they are, but in combination…I dunno…I think a proper bunker ele can take a lot.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ThiBash.5634:

Fine, Healing Signet is better. But that doesn’t mean anything, because skills and traits cannot be compared without considering everything else.

You compared SoR with Soothing Mists, Regen and using the heals in Water against Healing Signet and Adrenal Healing. Could we take into account the immunity skills and such that the warrior has?

You forgot to mention default lifepool and armor type.

this is so sad it used to be way more with less healing power… I also just like you went all out on healing power but now its just pointless.

Tsume.3490:

You forgot to mention default lifepool and armor type.

Armor is a relatively minor component, but yes, for a good discussion those factors need to be included as well.