Guild Wars 2

ThiBash.5634:

Tsume.3490:

You forgot to mention default lifepool and armor type.

Armor is a relatively minor component, but yes, for a good discussion those factors need to be included as well.

I´d hardly call 291 (314 if ascended) free stat points while having same defense a minor component.
Healthpool advantage equals over 750 points of vitality btw.

ThiBash.5634:

Do you understand my point?

Yes i understand that that SoR will propably never have decent standalone healing, but at the same time you´ll have to see how huge the healing signet really is for one single skill.

And also you´ll need to understand that the same thing applies to almost every aspect of ele:
It´s not really good, but hey, you can invest into it to make it be on par with others. And there comes in the problem, you can´t trait/invest for everything. So youll have to trait and spend points to make some aspects be average, and then rest will be lackluster.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I do think that the Signet needs some improvements, with them it could be rather good.

You must have about 1,200-1,500 Healing Power. I have 798 Healing Power and i get 282 per a cast.

1) Channels – I think skills like Drakes Breath and Cone of Cold should proc the heal on each tick of the channel. Using this heal and then channeled skills is a rather big Healing loss if you go during a reasonable fight.

or

2) Make it per a second. The fact that we have to keep using skills in order to get the heal is rather annoying and broken when you add in the long channel skills we have, the long cool down skills we have and the fact you can’t heal when stunned and such.

If we went with option 2 i think the Healing Per second would need to be improved as it would actually be a loss if it was changed to that but still kept the current healing. I think something in the region of 350-400Healing Per Second would be okay, considering our low health and low armor that is a decent amount

Agreed. How is it channeled spells are completely ignored. The core idea behind the sigil is to heal us as we cast spells so why are channeled spells punished?

ThiBash.5634:

phaeris.7604:

Warrior healing signet heals for more than that and is passive

Thats with 0 points in healing.

How much does it heal exactly per second? Is it the 392 listed on the wiki? Let’s compare it to the ele.

At 0 healing power, the ele gets:
Soothing Mist: 80 hp/s
Regeneration: 130 hp/s
Signet of Restoration passive: 202 hp/s
Signet of Restoration active: 131 hp/s
Total: 543 hp/s (412 without Written in Stone)

So assuming you get all the basics, and excluding any heals from weapons, the ele gets more healing than the warrior gets from their signet (you could lose one of them, but then there’s still the weapon heals so that balances it).

Soothing Mist: 80 hp/s= Only in effect when in water.
Regeneration: 130 hp/s = Not even related to skill so this is voided
Signet of Restoration passive: 202 hp/s = On attack not per second
Signet of Restoration active: 131 hp/s = equal to warriors.

Your a little mistaken on some facts.
Regeneration
Warriors can trait to have perm regeneration
Elementalist regeneration isn’t related to sigil in any way.

Passive
Warrior is per second. no matter what. doesn’t effect dps in any way.
Elementalist is per cast so unless we are capable of casting none stop our auto we fall behind if we move out of range, dodge, or use any skill with long cast times.

Soothing mist is the only exception to the rule but even then to have the effect we have to go into our weakest dps state to have it.

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Soothing Mist: 80 hp/s= Only in effect when in water.
Regeneration: 130 hp/s = Not even related to skill so this is voided
Signet of Restoration passive: 202 hp/s = On attack not per second
Signet of Restoration active: 131 hp/s = equal to warriors.

Soothing Mist lasts for several seconds after you leave water. With Lingering Elements it’s a permanent buff, but even without it lasts for quite a bit.
As for the passive, I was assuming 1 attack per second on average (as I’ve noted several times). As for the active, yes its equal but it was listed primarily for Written in Stone.

Your a little mistaken on some facts.
Regeneration
Warriors can trait to have perm regeneration
Elementalist regeneration isn’t related to sigil in any way.

Not related, but easily obtained. If you were to make a passive regen bunker build, you’d very likely pick Elemental Attunement (even if just for the protection). If you did, it would give you a good regeneration uptime as well as Lingering Elements for perma Soothing Mist. With that, you only need a small bit of extra regeneration to actually get perma regeneration. You can either get that through a trait or with Healing Rain.

So I’d say it’s relevant, though I didn’t know warriors had acces to perma regen as well. If both sides have the boon then of course it can be removed from the equation.

Passive
Warrior is per second. no matter what. doesn’t effect dps in any way.
Elementalist is per cast so unless we are capable of casting none stop our auto we fall behind if we move out of range, dodge, or use any skill with long cast times.

Eles also have a lot of instant cast skills that give healing too. Funnily, if you have Evasive Arcana, you actually get a healing tick from your dodge roll.

Soothing mist is the only exception to the rule but even then to have the effect we have to go into our weakest dps state to have it.

No, we just have to dip in it for a moment and can then move on because it lasts longer than just being in Water Attunement. Why is everyone so smitten with remaining in water magic permanently?

I think we might of wandered off topic a bit. This was about comparing the base form of the elementalist and warrior healing sigils. Now its all about who can spec and trait for the maximum effective heal. Excluding all traits, and skills and stats. Warriors healing sigil has a strong advantage over elementalist’s sigil as single skill. I think everyone can agree on this.

If both sides when all out and tried to build up its healing abilitys and effects. Elementalist would take a acceptable lead in over all healing effects but would suffer from extreme subpar offence and be forced to preform complex methods to keep heals going.

warriors on the other hand would suffer very limited restrictions allowing them to focus their builds and play style on over powering offence or defence. any healing trait additional would in fact be given extra buffs to their offence and defence as well as healing benenfits.

The over all view is Elementalist are forced to sacrifice a large part of their skills and build design while preforming intense combo’s to get heals which further cuts their offence even more.
while warriors have nothing to lose and everything to gain. any healing skills they seek out are coupled with powerful offensive/defensive buffs that act out indepentantly of the player.

No argument there. The topic has derailed but it did reveal something useful: warriors get the same healing regardless healing power. This is probably the root of the problem, because it allows them to get full effect from their signet without any investment.

Maybe making Healing Signet scale with healing power instead of being a fixed number could solve the problem. It’d have to start lower of course, but it would force the warriors to choose between damage and defense, rather than get both because the defense is the same no matter what.

ThiBash.5634:

No argument there. The topic has derailed but it did reveal something useful: warriors get the same healing regardless healing power.

Actually this is wrong. Even though it simply wouldn’t happen. A warrior COULD go full healing Power. It would make the heal from the Signet be 483 per a second (1817 Healing Power) while the heal from Signet of Restoration would be 384 Per a cast with the same Healing Power.

So that would mean:
warrior: 91 Healing Per a second increase
Ele: 182 Healing Per cast increase

But this is remember going to be lower due to channel skills only proccing the heal once and you have to continually attack – something that is simply impossible in fights. Due to fear, knockbacks, stuns and such.

Something to note: I have seen that the “Healing Per Cast” isn’t actually right, the number would actually be LOWER than the heal i was getting from it. Anyone else notice this?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

A warrior COULD go full healing Power. It would make the heal from the Signet be 483 per a second (1817 Healing Power) while the heal from Signet of Restoration would be 384 Per a cast with the same Healing Power.

The wiki didn’t show it scales. That’s my mistake then, sorry.

Something to note: I have seen that the “Healing Per Cast” isn’t actually right, the number would actually be LOWER than the heal i was getting from it. Anyone else notice this?

I didn’t. Could it be because of the PvP nerf not being shown in the tooltip by chance?

ThiBash.5634:

I didn’t. Could it be because of the PvP nerf not being shown in the tooltip by chance?

This is from WvW, which doesn’t get affected by the PvP nerf i believe. I tend to get MORE healing from it than the actual skill says.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ThiBash.5634:

I didn’t. Could it be because of the PvP nerf not being shown in the tooltip by chance?

This is from WvW, which doesn’t get affected by the PvP nerf i believe. I tend to get MORE healing from it than the actual skill says.

possible it was being influenced by outside sources, WvW buffs, other players shared passives. hard to tell

Chaotic Storm.2815:

possible it was being influenced by outside sources, WvW buffs, other players shared passives. hard to tell

The only thing it could be is the bonuses from WvW, seeing as i am seeing it when i am solo as well. It is just strange that the tool tip doesnt get properly updated to state the correct healing.

I can see this working as a condition tank build to be honest

ComeAtMe.5932:

I can see this working as a condition tank build to be honest

But then you run into the problem with ele conditank builds; not enough tanking, and not enough conditions.
Only natural access to two conditions and the lowest heath/armor in the game make for a rough time.
Some people can make it work, but that’s more of a reflection on their experience (or running diamond skin 1v1 against dire necros) than on their build.

ComeAtMe.5932:

I can see this working as a condition tank build to be honest

It would be impossible to get that much Healing Power (2,000) as well as Toughness, Vitality and Condition damage into one build.

From the screen, we know he has at least 2,500health from WvW buffs. 100 Condition damage from the other WvW buff. No idea about food or stacks.

In a normal 0/0/20/20/30 build I could get 1,287Healing Power with, 1,378 Condition damage(Corruption sigil gives 250). The problem is that i would have 12.8k Health. The Toughness is solid at 1,861

This makes me think that is Stacks and food are all Healing Power based as well. Taking Mango food, swapping the corruption for Life sigil and taking Tuning Crystal gives me 1,678Healing Power and 1,284 condition damage. Adjusting the traits increases Condition damage to 1,470 but you would still have the HUGE issue of 12.8k health

So, all in all, i don’t think it is possible to get that high healing from it in a condition bunker based build

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ComeAtMe.5932:

I can see this working as a condition tank build to be honest

It would be impossible to get that much Healing Power (2,000) as well as Toughness, Vitality and Condition damage into one build.

From the screen, we know he has at least 2,500health from WvW buffs. 100 Condition damage from the other WvW buff. No idea about food or stacks.

In a normal 0/0/20/20/30 build I could get 1,287Healing Power with, 1,378 Condition damage(Corruption sigil gives 250). The problem is that i would have 12.8k Health. The Toughness is solid at 1,861

This makes me think that is Stacks and food are all Healing Power based as well. Taking Mango food, swapping the corruption for Life sigil and taking Tuning Crystal gives me 1,678Healing Power and 1,284 condition damage. Adjusting the traits increases Condition damage to 1,470 but you would still have the HUGE issue of 12.8k health

So, all in all, i don’t think it is possible to get that high healing from it in a condition bunker based build

You’re right. I actually am using kralkachocolate bars as nourishment. I have 25 stacks of life, and 30 into water with 10 into air for the 7% conversion trait. Though, I’ll be honest, I’m thinking if i have 3k attack with this build, then if I changed to apothecary I might be able to get about 1k condi damage with 2k healing power. My armor is sitting at a comfy 2,500. Toughness will stay the same. My vitality is sitting at 15k because of water tree, and the guard buff bumps it up to 17/18k. Interesting talk though.

The Game Slayer.7632:

You’re right. I actually am using kralkachocolate bars as nourishment. I have 25 stacks of life, and 30 into water with 10 into air for the 7% conversion trait. Though, I’ll be honest, I’m thinking if i have 3k attack with this build, then if I changed to apothecary I might be able to get about 1k condi damage with 2k healing power. My armor is sitting at a comfy 2,500. Toughness will stay the same. My vitality is sitting at 15k because of water tree, and the guard buff bumps it up to 17/18k. Interesting talk though.

An interesting Combo could be going for around 1,500healing Power. That would make Signet of Restro heal for at least 344 per a cast. Going into Water (assuming 20 into water) would heal for 2k with 20 into Arcane you would get another 1,800 from Regen, taking Soothing Wave would be another 921 heal every 10seconds. Dagger #5 would be another 2,700 heal.

With 1,000 Condition damage Drakes Breath would have the potential do do just under 7,000Burning. a 5 second Burn would be just under 2,900 – this all coming from Obsidian Sanctum.

The only real issue would be how to overcome the health, I mean even with the Fortitude buff you would be looking at about 15,000. That would be death in like 3 attacks from a BS Thief.

You could add a couple of Dire+Rabid accessories (Precision/Toughness/Vitality/Condition damage) at the cost of Healing Power to increase the health. Getting around 1k Healing Power would be

Going into Water (assuming 20 into water) would heal for 1.7k rather than 2k with 20 into Arcane you would get another 1.5k rather than 1,800 from Regen, taking Soothing Wave would be another 753 rather than 921 heal every 10seconds. Dagger #5 would be another 2.2k rather than 2,700 heal.

So if we went into Water with 1,500 Healing Power and used Dagger 5# the total healing potential would be 7,421 with it at 1,000 Healing power it would be 6,153 so losing about 500 Healing power would be the loss of like 1,200 healing from that combo. Personally, i dont think it is that much.

With that in mind, you could drop some of the Healing gear to grab more Vitality based gear. It would be about getting a balance between Vitality and Healing Power. My aim is to be about 15-16k without Buffs.

What would really help is if they had the combo with Toughness, Vitality and Healing Power. As i already reach about 1,800Condition damage when fully buffed with food and stacks so if we had that combo i could drop some of my armor and weapons for those sort of stats.

Is that 2,500Amor? that would mean you are around 1,600Toughness. I am currently sitting at just under 2,000 attack Power. I have considered dropping some Condition damage and grabbing some Power stuff, Maybe dropping Corruption and grabbing Bloodlust might help a bit. I would still be at just over 1,600Condition damage but increasing my power from 941 to just under 1,200 might help me a bit as well.