Help explaining the Nerfs
The nerfs to CD reduction was done because the damage output was too good in pve/raid.
The nerf to Wash the Pain Away was done because it over-performed in the frontline meta in wvw. Elemental bastion probably the same reason.
Cleric amulet was removed because people didn’t enjoy fighting bunkers in pvp.
Basically nerfs for all game modes created a recipe for disaster. People in wvw and pve will live with the changes but pvpers have no builds good enough in the current meta. they reduced the cd of elemental shielding like I asked, but didn’t on final shielding which is stupid. They didn’t touch many of the traitlines even though we needed updates almost as much as guardian.
Bad Elementalist
The nerf to Wash the Pain Away was done because it over-performed in the frontline meta in wvw.
Not that much of a nerf since they also reduced the cd and boosted gains from healing power. Cleric frontline ftw (funny considering the removal of cleric in PvP).
Quick explanoation:
Lava font and overload air nerfs: lowering DPS in pve content.
CD reduction nerfs: mostly PvP/WvW. Geomancer’s training had magnetic wave und 16,7s cd to cleanse 3 conditions, blast finisher+reflect while obsidian flesh secured save stomps. Aquamancer’s training was too powerful in WvW backline builds.
Healing ners: WtPa was too pwerful compared to the other heals. Elemental bastion also had more healing than the arcane alternative evasive arcana
Ele is still a good option for PvE and WvW, but it has no purpose in sPvP anymore. THe full bunkker build got nerfed, but we don’t have enough damage mitigation options for dps builds. The reduced healing also hurts every kind of bruiser build. I am not happy with the nerf, expected some kind of compensation (for example increased damage on some spells like dragon’s tooth, churning earth or fire grab for pvp burst builds)
Quick explanoation:
Lava font and overload air nerfs: lowering DPS in pve content.
CD reduction nerfs: mostly PvP/WvW. Geomancer’s training had magnetic wave und 16,7s cd to cleanse 3 conditions, blast finisher+reflect while obsidian flesh secured save stomps. Aquamancer’s training was too powerful in WvW backline builds.
Healing ners: WtPa was too pwerful compared to the other heals. Elemental bastion also had more healing than the arcane alternative evasive arcanaEle is still a good option for PvE and WvW, but it has no purpose in sPvP anymore. THe full bunkker build got nerfed, but we don’t have enough damage mitigation options for dps builds. The reduced healing also hurts every kind of bruiser build. I am not happy with the nerf, expected some kind of compensation (for example increased damage on some spells like dragon’s tooth, churning earth or fire grab for pvp burst builds)
Ele needs two things in PvP, and increased damage on spells is not one of them. The most important change that ele needs is the addition of a huge amount of active mitigation. Ele also needs smaller delay on their skills on scepter and staff, so they can land once in a while.
I am far from being an expert but my felling is that this balance pass reduced the healing abilities of Ele who did not invest stats in healing while they increased a bit some self sustain.
Wash the pain away is globally the same, even better if you take the CD into account, if you have healing power. It only reduces support of offensive gear. The same goes with elemental bastion, although the global result is still a nerf.
On the other side self heal through glyph got up’ed and with druid rune one can imagine a different active way for team support (rather than passive through shout).
Personal survival also increased a bit with the new stats in PvP since you can have a longer duration of Protection but only with offensive stats. You’ll be more sensitive to deboon but that is by design (something normally shared with Guardian).
Training’s nerf is, I think, due to the fact that people tended, in every game mode to always have skills ready while staying in the same attunement. I think it somehow should increase the skill ceiling of the profession, because one has to admit that even less than average Ele players could do a lot and the difference with good players was not high enough. Now the “camp element” players will have a harder time in every game mode compared to those who know which skill in other attunement is available and which one they can squeeze by the time their CD comes back.
It is somehow a way to normalize the difference between core Ele and Tempest since switching will be more interesting (and then Arcane will be more used too).
In fact should the Cleric amulet still be available, the last season’s bunker build would not be to much nerfed. But the PvP team (not the balance one) do not want to see the Ele support being so strong compared to other support and hence shifted the sustain/support amulet to sustain damage amulet ( seeker and diviner amulet) in order to increase boons (37% or 70 % boon duration!!)… which can lead to 5 seconds of party protection upon aura sharing or 10 sec regen upon cantrip use…. well many different defensive use, and of course a better might stacking.
Maybe the issue is that balance team and PvP team should not change things simultaneously because we had explanation on why the balance did what they did but the patch note concerning how PvP team want to shift the meta was not clear enough.
That wash the pain away nerf didnt hit eles quite hard, cause it healed for 5.5-6k, but the sigil one heals for 6.5k, so we kinda got some healing for ourselves, BUT the ones that lost a lot are party members, cause well now they get no heal from eles.
About those cds, that hit hard cause in a full dps rotation every second on our skill cd equals damage. The more your skill cd, the more autos or weaker skills you will end up using during you rotations, and thats a direct dps loss. Besides now you have a little bit of clunkines in rotations.
The sad part is that although meta builds got hit by the nerfs, the non-meta builds got hit harder.
For spvp, thats just too much for one fix. Any 1-2 of those nerfs would have been good, but hey nerfed cds, heal, and removed our only survivability amulet, which leads to only option of going for dmg builds. But eles have got the least hp/toughness from their profession, so we cant actually compensate it. I think elementalists need scaling overhaul on their abilities.
I notice the healing changes big time on my build. I relied upon WAtP as well as Elemental Bastion. My solo build doesn’t aura-share, so Elemental Bastion was just for me. That change hurts the most — to the point where I’m not sure it’s worth taking Elemental Bastion any longer.
Pre-patch EB healed me for 1340 health.
Post-patch EB heals me for 940 health.
I have Celestial gear (on everything) so I do have some Healing Power. The healing power scaling on EB is just garbage (and the patch notes indicate they don’t really care since they only buffed the scaling by 10%).
I only use the fire cooldown trait and the change from 33% to 20% is noticeable but not too bad (for my build). The Lava Font change from 6s to 8s is much more noticeable and quite annoying. I can live with these changes though — but not the healing nerf.
In conclusion, I’ll be swapping out my heal skill since WAtP isn’t cutting it for solo play any more (sorry adjacent players, gotta look out for number one). I will also swap out EB for “Imbued Melodies”.
Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”
Some stats and numbers for Elemental Bastion pre and post nerf.
Aquatic Benevolence – 15%
Sigil of Transference – 10%
Food – 10%
Healing Power – 1400
Outgoing Aura Heal pre-nerf: 2.3k~
Outgoing Aura Heal post-nerf: 1.8k~
That’s roughly a 500 healing nerf on the very same setup. And take note, that’s outgoing healing. You’ll roughly heal yourself for 900~ HP with 700~ healing power right now.
Elementalists have the lowest HP and Armor in the game. They don’t have access to stealth nor decent mobility as a form of damage mitigation. Their skills have minimum evade frames nor do they have access to decent blocks. Most damage mitigation traits relies on being hit and are exclusively locked into defensive trait lines.
One of their selling points is the amount of healing they can output. Pre-nerf, non-bunker Tempests were getting enough healing without putting in too much to Healing Power. It was just enough healing to sustain that 4 seconds of face-tanking damage while overloading.
IMHO an Elementalist’s base healing should be high because of the reasons stated above. With no access to stealth, minimal built in evades, long CD blocks, and minimal mobility, Elementalists will get hit and the only way to counter it is to heal through it. Now that they have nerfed base healing and turned it to healing scaling, Elementalists will be forced to put in more Healing Power and Toughness which then minimizes the available stats for offense. This in turn, just promotes bunker builds because non-bunker Elementalists has minimal ways of mitigating damage.
If Anet wanted to nerf support Tempest, they should have directly nerfed the outgoing healing instead their self-sustain. I’d rather have Aquatic Benevolence removed or changed as a major trait than force Tempests to play exclusively as a support class in PvP.
TL;DR – The main issues were not really addressed properly this patch. Outgoing Healing and Projectile hate should have been the focus of nerfs. Instead, they have pidgeonholed Tempests more into a bunker playstyle.
Good post Kyon – we’re on the same page.
I was shocked by your healing numbers compared to mine (previous post), but then realized yours is “Outgoing” and mine are self-heal. I see your self-heal number is about what I’m seeing (900-ish).
Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”
They nerfed ele through the ground because they simply want another flavor of the month. Gw2 balance patches have never been about balance, right now its ele’s turn to watch from the sidelines.
Just look at it, they nerfed eles DPS to where both Necros /thieves and engis can beat it on medium targets, yet we do not get close to their sustain.
They nerfed healing, and honestly we are already lowest hp/armor and exactly where did we get dmg mitigation like other classes?
Alright thanks for explaining, makes so much more sense now!
They nerfed ele through the ground because they simply want another flavor of the month. Gw2 balance patches have never been about balance, right now its ele’s turn to watch from the sidelines.
Just look at it, they nerfed eles DPS to where both Necros /thieves and engis can beat it on medium targets, yet we do not get close to their sustain.
They nerfed healing, and honestly we are already lowest hp/armor and exactly where did we get dmg mitigation like other classes?
I take it like you are talking about pve since you write dps on medium target.
In pve the nerf was needed, both dps and heals since we were top dps while we could heal a lot the party, provide might and bounce fury with heat sync. So too much support for the top dps build in game.
That said, I really think they did wrong, me and a lot of other players had would prefere a nerf in damage numbers (mostly on meteor shower) than on cooldwns, since now the gameplay of D/Wh isn’t that smooth and enjoyable.
But we still are One of the best dps classes in pve and the heal nerf doesn’t prevent us to support a lot while dpsing.
So say “they nerfed Ele throug the ground” is pretty an exageration if we talk about pve…. But It’s right if we talk about pvp, where they just destroyed any builds, out of maybe, magi and menders healbots
Parabrezza
(edited by lucadiro.4519)
You have 12k hp on an ele. In a raid..one mistake and you’re screwed. The nerfs were unwarranted and also really screwed up the flow and feel of the rotation.
I notice the healing changes big time on my build. I relied upon WAtP as well as Elemental Bastion. My solo build doesn’t aura-share, so Elemental Bastion was just for me. That change hurts the most — to the point where I’m not sure it’s worth taking Elemental Bastion any longer.
Pre-patch EB healed me for 1340 health.
Post-patch EB heals me for 940 health.I have Celestial gear (on everything) so I do have some Healing Power. The healing power scaling on EB is just garbage (and the patch notes indicate they don’t really care since they only buffed the scaling by 10%).
I only use the fire cooldown trait and the change from 33% to 20% is noticeable but not too bad (for my build). The Lava Font change from 6s to 8s is much more noticeable and quite annoying. I can live with these changes though — but not the healing nerf.
In conclusion, I’ll be swapping out my heal skill since WAtP isn’t cutting it for solo play any more (sorry adjacent players, gotta look out for number one). I will also swap out EB for “Imbued Melodies”.
I have the same issue. My build was earth based (including CD) and used no water and aurashare and low regeneration uptime. My healing was based on the 3-4 four shout´s and my defence on focus. Rest of the build was offensive with a bit toughness in PvP soldiers amulet added well. The teamsupport was not as strong as the auramancer but noticeable enough. In WvW i use hybrid stats viper and cele Earth/arcane/tempest with scepter + focus.
I lost a huge amount of teamsupport a bit damage and a critical portion of self survivability, because i did already go on the limit between offense and defence. Magnetic wave CD nerf is extreamly noticeabe als well as rock barrier + dust devil.
I never cared to much on obsidian flesh and would prefer a low CD offensive instead. I usually safe it for the stomp and so 33 or 40s or even 50 is not such a big deal for me.
So my hybrid, far from meta build, was hit extreamly hard. If feels like Anet doesn´t want people to play their own style …
(edited by Wolfric.9380)
Ele needs two things in PvP, and increased damage on spells is not one of them. The most important change that ele needs is the addition of a huge amount of active mitigation. Ele also needs smaller delay on their skills on scepter and staff, so they can land once in a while.
Hence the immediate first tick on Lava Font.
Alerie Despins
It’s really quite frustrating to be hit by a nerf as an auramancer (earth/water/tempest). I lost a tremendous amount of self-sustain, group healing, and it feels like I’m super squishy even in Soldier’s + cleric stats on my staff.
Auramancer isn’t even that popular. Were they afraid eles were going to overtake our druid healer overlords? Since there are all of two healers in this game anyways? Jesus christ, ANET…
Oh well. RIP face tanking axemaster. Anyone have a decent build for tanking/healing now similar to auramancer? Been playing necro/rev a lot lately and I must say…the tankiness + ability to self heal is amazing compared to ele at the moment. You have the option to use minions too to solo pretty much anything as well.
(edited by Kagato.5390)
It’s really quite frustrating to be hit by a nerf as an auramancer (earth/water/tempest). I lost a tremendous amount of self-sustain, group healing, and it feels like I’m super squishy even in Soldier’s + cleric stats on my staff.
Auramancer isn’t even that popular. Were they afraid eles were going to overtake our druid healer overlords? Since there are all of two healers in this game anyways? Jesus christ, ANET…
Oh well. RIP face tanking axemaster. Anyone have a decent build for tanking/healing now similar to auramancer? Been playing necro/rev a lot lately and I must say…the tankiness + ability to self heal is amazing compared to ele at the moment. You have the option to use minions too to solo pretty much anything as well.
Hey man, most people use magi amulet for support now. Personally, playing support without being a bunker is a waste of time.
Bad Elementalist
I play warrior and ele. While warrior somehow takes much more damage then ele, its regeneration ability is amazing. So annything that doesn´t kill me fast has more or less already lost ….
I will give similar explanation as why Scrapper was nerfed, and Engi didn’t got anything expect minimal boost to condi dmg.
BECAUSE they probably working on next specialisation. There was stated that Anet work on next expansion, so they work on next specialisation.
And my guts say it won’t be purely offensive. Temprest supposed to be suppport oriented spec, but in final iteration Anet heavly increased dmg on overloads, and when they will want to give dmg option then they will probably nerf Temprest damage (and hope that they increase some PvE utility). I would suspect that next one will be bruiser for mainly PvP (probably with sword as main weapon, because sword mages are “kewl”).
ALSO… well I always found that 33% CD reduction was quite overboard, where “normal” weapons were only reduced by 20%.