Guild Wars 2

I play a ranger and have nearly mastered the class as far as I know. If you guys can link me to any threads regarding beating a Dagger/dagger Elementalist I would appreciate it, since I find them pretty tough to beat. Also disregard the fact that Im ranger and just explain how ANY class can beat you, thanks.

Also I mean in a 1v1 situation.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Tips-for-defeating-DD-Ele/first#post1203638

You cant defeat a GOOD d/d elementalist in a 1v1 situation. Its going to end if you die or if the elementalist decides to run.

A lot of CC. Chill also helps because I think it slows down their attunement switching as well as their abilities’ cooldowns. That’s what I have so far, since I’m mostly a PvE player.

A good ranger will kitten on a d/d ele. You just won’t be able to stop them from running away. Traps/beasmastery.

Yeah, don’t expect to beat them if they are playing properly. Just fend them off every time, and maybe they will get annoyed and make a mistake first.

I dont think Ranger would have any problem 1vs1 any class.

Rangers CAN be a pretty big pain in the bum.

Darek.1836:

I play a ranger and have nearly mastered the class as far as I know. If you guys can link me to any threads regarding beating a Dagger/dagger Elementalist I would appreciate it, since I find them pretty tough to beat. Also disregard the fact that Im ranger and just explain how ANY class can beat you, thanks.

Also I mean in a 1v1 situation.

The problem fighting eles is that most of us are aware when the fight is going ugly and instead of risking it we cantrip, then lightning flash and RTL away.

We are one of the best escape artists known in gw2.

Rule no.1 when fighting an ele. —> When you cant take dnd ele down in under 15 secs, dont bother.

Rangers are pretty much a free kill for a d/d ele. I rarely see any good ones, and i’ve never lost to a ranger 1v1 in wvw.
But i have seen a vid off a very good ranger, and it’s this one:

If any d/d ele thinks they can easily beat a ranger… you should msg karlesi in game and set up a duel. He is the best ranger i have seen and often beats dd eles easily.

Really, you just can’t. Eles can cure conditions better than anyone, so chances are, even if you throw chill, cripple, stun, whatever at them, they will remove them faster than you can cause them. Your best bet is to have high toughness and vitality. An Ele’s main strength is their ability to outlast. Our DPS isn’t amazing. All you can hope for is being able to heal/take more damage than an Ele can deal.

If things don’t go in favor of the Ele, they will run away and you won’t catch them. I’ve had more than five people ambush me, and I can still run away. What chances do you have of catching them in 1v1?

boon strip builds will destroy D/D ele.

They’re dependent on boons and regen.

strip their boons and keep stripping them, whittle them down and they die.

There are a few professions that CAN build for boon strips, but most of them dont because it generally requires specialization in ONLY boon strips.

Still, boon strips utterly destroy D/D ele. (or any bunker for that matter)

Timelord.8190:

Rangers are pretty much a free kill for a d/d ele.

Exactly

My free kill list in 1v1

-Staff ele
-SnF ele
-Glass thief
-Rangers
-Necros
-Guardians
-Glass mesmers
-Engies

Problem is, u dont really get clean 1v1 fights in WvW and s/tPvP is a yawnfest

Exactly what do you mean by “defeating” them. WvW and just making them leave? PvP and actually killing them?

I mean, I have lots of trouble with killing and have died to tanks from other classes when I refused to run away, but aside from 1-2 thieves specifically, I have never had trouble running away from from a fight if I choose to do so.

That being said, yeah, if you’re talking about actually killing a D/D ele in an open space, I would have to say it’s not happening. I haven’t seen a ranger with enough burst potential to kill me before I reacted and even with boon stripping I can still get away due to Cantrips and RtL.

Only thing I can think of is if you can bait an Ele to overextend, count their Catrips, RtL CD and heals and strip boon and burst them from half HP point before they can regain CDs to run.

If you’re just trying to get them to run away. I’m pretty sure any form of strip boon + immobilize ( multiple ) will scare off most elementals since standing still is probably the worst thing for us.

“If” it is a true duel situation where the Elementalist isn’t going to run or exit combat to heal up, pretty sure a hybrid tank of some sort will work, I’ve lost to other D/Ds, Engie, … and umm… that’s it, I don’t duel much if ever, and they all were tanks.

Only other situation is that I’ve been killed in a 1v1 situation was a thief with the full backstab + venom + items + everything in 1 second routine but unless ranger can pop that out I don’t think it’s really worth mentioning.

Kirbyprime.2645:

I’ve lost to other D/Ds

As a DnD ele, I hate fighting another DnD. First , if they bunker, no one wins. Second if they run, be prepared to run half the map. Any dnd also hate fighting another dnd?

Fuzzion.2504:

Kirbyprime.2645:

I’ve lost to other D/Ds

As a DnD ele, I hate fighting another DnD. First , if they bunker, no one wins. Second if they run, be prepared to run half the map. Any dnd also hate fighting another dnd?

I try not to run from other D/Ds. Easier to see where you stand against your own class. Yeah, bunker vs bunker takes forever and most of the time someone interrupts you due to the long fights, but still a good way to see how you fare.

I see, thanks for the answers. I figured that there wouldn’t be a real way to take them down and I get annoyed by some 5 minute long fights with them since I just evade all their attacks, but I can’t slow them down enough for a pet burst due to their condi removal. I guess my thoughts were confirmed, so thanks again.

I’ve been trying everything in order to kill one on my Engi and the best results I’ve ever had for now is to bunker too and not die aswell, and.. it’s hilariously ridiculous.

I like how the elementalists themselves admit that they cant be killed unless they let the enemy (much like a thief). This has to be addressed by the devs, I dont mind DD elementalists getting more power if they just nerf their ability to run away. I rarely lose to an elementalist (there are only D/D nowadays) but I just about never win either due to these silly abilities.

Nerf what? Ride the lighting and mist form is all we have.. Two things

Thieves have shortbow and about 6 stealths to use.

My warrior has a ton of mobility with sig rage, warhorn and GS.

Sorry Galrukh but D/D is not unkillable. They might be able to disengage and run but they are not the only class that can do it.

Lysico.4906:

Nerf what? Ride the lighting and mist form is all we have.. Two things

Thieves have shortbow and about 6 stealths to use.

My warrior has a ton of mobility with sig rage, warhorn and GS.

Sorry Galrukh but D/D is not unkillable. They might be able to disengage and run but they are not the only class that can do it.

only 2?
RTL, MIstform, Lightning flash
over a dozen condition removals?

Depending on your elite fiery greatsword that easily has the greatest mobility of all items in the game surpassing the thief teleport or warrior gs o_o
Have you been playing the class right?

If you aren’t managing to 2 v 1 most other average players as a D/D 0/10/0/30/30 ele then you aren’t playing it that well. (excluding other D/D eles)

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

Lysico.4906:

Nerf what? Ride the lighting and mist form is all we have.. Two things

Thieves have shortbow and about 6 stealths to use.

My warrior has a ton of mobility with sig rage, warhorn and GS.

Sorry Galrukh but D/D is not unkillable. They might be able to disengage and run but they are not the only class that can do it.

only 2?
RTL, MIstform, Lightning flash
over a dozen condition removals?

Depending on your elite fiery greatsword that easily has the greatest mobility of all items in the game surpassing the thief teleport or warrior gs o_o
Have you been playing the class right?

So you’re saying that all Elementalists should always have Fiery GS as their elite? Is that how you play the class right?

zTales.4392:

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

Lysico.4906:

Nerf what? Ride the lighting and mist form is all we have.. Two things

Thieves have shortbow and about 6 stealths to use.

My warrior has a ton of mobility with sig rage, warhorn and GS.

Sorry Galrukh but D/D is not unkillable. They might be able to disengage and run but they are not the only class that can do it.

only 2?
RTL, MIstform, Lightning flash
over a dozen condition removals?

Depending on your elite fiery greatsword that easily has the greatest mobility of all items in the game surpassing the thief teleport or warrior gs o_o
Have you been playing the class right?

So you’re saying that all Elementalists should always have Fiery GS as their elite? Is that how you play the class right?

Honestly elites don’t even matter for a D/D ele except for maybe Avatar of Melendru(Human), but overall they have little to no effect on the performance, its pure preference.

Ele class elites other than underwater vortex is the worst of all classes (the glyph is mehhhhhhh from my experience), but makes it up with their regular skills.

I’ve only used the FGS for getting across WvW quickly save a few exceptions.

I suppose the most destructive thing they could do is reduce the range of RtL to say… 900? I would say more but you might as well kill Elementalists off if you do that.

Something like removing the trait that gives cantrips regen ( in effect killing up to 3 of our condition removals ) would slow us down as well.

Tbh I’d rather they nerf our bunker survivability then mess with our mobility. I mean, we need SOMETHING that we excel at and that’s it.

I agree with you Kirby. And, really LT. Google? are you really complaining about our ability to RUN AWAY? Why would anyone complain about someone running away, to me, it sounds like you’re just upset that there is finally something/someone that you can’t kill easily.

If they wanted to balance the class, any of the following would do:

1. Nerf heal effectiveness, buff base HP
2. Nerf defense, buff offense

I actually wouldn’t mind if they nerfed bunker since I don’t use that build anyway, but I sure think in that case we could use more punch in return, considering how low our HP is. We’re almost a glass class by default.

MOAR damage, ANet!

No, more defense, our DPS is some of the best in my opinion, we need more defense if anything, but that might unbalance the classes.

Ian Kennedy.4563:

I agree with you Kirby. And, really LT. Google? are you really complaining about our ability to RUN AWAY? Why would anyone complain about someone running away, to me, it sounds like you’re just upset that there is finally something/someone that you can’t kill easily.

Or how about kill at all ?
Elementalists only die if they decide to let you kill them, its impossible to catch an elementalist that has any grasp of his class at all and it sucks not being able to close a fight. I dont mind dying but I want a chance of winning as well and not just a choice of losing vs draw.

Galrukh.6532:

Ian Kennedy.4563:

I agree with you Kirby. And, really LT. Google? are you really complaining about our ability to RUN AWAY? Why would anyone complain about someone running away, to me, it sounds like you’re just upset that there is finally something/someone that you can’t kill easily.

Or how about kill at all ?
Elementalists only die if they decide to let you kill them, its impossible to catch an elementalist that has any grasp of his class at all and it sucks not being able to close a fight. I dont mind dying but I want a chance of winning as well and not just a choice of losing vs draw.

So ever tried killing a thief who is determined to escape?

Ian Kennedy.4563:

No, more defense, our DPS is some of the best in my opinion, we need more defense if anything, but that might unbalance the classes.

You need to play a mes or a war

Pretty much any tank builds are going to be hard to kill 1v1. But they cant really finish you off all that fast either.

ETR.8152:

Pretty much any tank builds are going to be hard to kill 1v1. But they cant really finish you off all that fast either.

Either people complain that they get instagibbed by a certain class hence OP burst

OR

people complain that they CANNOT kill a certain class hence OP bunkers.

Fascinating…

I was complaining?

ETR.8152:

I was complaining?

No, but the rest of the thread seems to. I pretty much agree with what you said actually. Hence, the quote. o.o

Anyway, to finally answer to OP, I have some tips but I am no pro so I may say something gibberish here.

Confusion or dazes can hurt d/d eles since they rely on continually using skills. Watch carefully what attunement the ele is currently in. Burst him down or condition bomb him the moment he swaps out of water. He’s got to wait another 9 seconds or more to come back to water for another heal rotation. Or interrupt/daze him when he is in water. Also, pressure him first into using his cantrips and wasting his dodge (ele evading in water means heal) before using your hard hitting skills and conditions. Catching him when his HP dwindles is very difficult because RTL will zap him waaay out of your range unless you’re in a tight spot. But an immobilized ele cannot RTL away from you. And look on the bright side: when an ele runs away from you, you technically have defeated him anyways.

Tips for warriors. Axe/shield is your friend. Time you dodge to get out of the Ride the Lighting/updraft combo. Bull rush as soon as they come out of water. “If your a gs war.” Basically keep up the pressure. Til they run or more come to help.

Probably worse than trying to chase down a bunker ele or stealth thief is a full bunker guardian. At least with eles and thieves you can snag them with the big stuff sometimes if you catch them at the right time.

It’s so much worse when a guardian just walks away from you at normal speed and you just. can’t. kill them. Then you have to do that walk of shame move where you give up and just turn and go in the other direction after they facetank you through cripples and chills across a quarter of the map in WvW or something.

It’s like they’re not even running away but just laughing at you.

Ian Kennedy.4563:

I agree with you Kirby. And, really LT. Google? are you really complaining about our ability to RUN AWAY? Why would anyone complain about someone running away, to me, it sounds like you’re just upset that there is finally something/someone that you can’t kill easily.

Its not just the ability to get away along, its the ability to get away no matter what the situation is, unless you are immobilized (there is no means in this game to permanently immobilize except with binding roots, but lets be honest that thing is weak). RTL, Lightning flash and mist form are not affected by cripples or chills, a huge advantage when it comes to escape or engaging.

Situations like OH CRAP I GOT 10 conditions on me and i’m at 30% hp (mist form>water atune>lighting flash> air atune> RTL.
Bam you are 10 miles away now.

If someone even manage to still chase you, pop lightning aura then fire atune into dagger 4.

Players who think, oh man I win most 1v1 situations in WvW, I must be getting good with the D/D (0/10/0/30/30) ele are just fooling themselves. The build itself is what’s broken.

Ride the Lightning is really the only skill that’s really ‘out there’ as far as a get away ability. The rest falls in line with what pretty much every other class has access to. The cooldown is short and the distance long on RTL so really no D/D ele should ever be killed unless they want to.

Whether or not this is something that needs to be changed is up to the devs. I wouldn’t cry if they changed it into a target required charge or something. I don’t typically use it for transportation and I don’t PvP so escape isn’t something I do often.

plasmacutter.2709:

strip their boons and keep stripping them, whittle them down and they die.

I don’t know about you but when I fight someone that strips my boons I just run away. Any D/D ele that dies in fight is just being too over confident.

Yea D/D Eles can run away from everything.
But for me good 0/0/30/15/25 Rangers cant be beaten in 1v1 in the best cases you get a draw most of the time you will loose if you dont run.
And a D/D Ele is not able to kill a 0/0/30/20/20 Guardian.
Both Traid speccs are way more Tanky than Ele so you cant beat them if they play at your lvl, in the worst cases they know how to play against a Ele and easy counter all your Burst.

btw Ranger Greatsword 3 is really good for running too.

Ian Kennedy.4563:

I agree with you Kirby. And, really LT. Google? are you really complaining about our ability to RUN AWAY? Why would anyone complain about someone running away, to me, it sounds like you’re just upset that there is finally something/someone that you can’t kill easily.

Reason being is that with all but 1 other class if you as player commit to a fight and are outmatched by other player you die. With thief and D/D ele can be a crappy player and still get away. Why I play my D/D ele when I am solo and Eng with my guild group. my d/d ele does not have to worry about me being seen by a zerg because I can just run away.

Nischana.2036:

btw Ranger Greatsword 3 is really good for running too.

Yea but then you are really hurting yourself because GS sucks as weapon.

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

Ian Kennedy.4563:

I agree with you Kirby. And, really LT. Google? are you really complaining about our ability to RUN AWAY? Why would anyone complain about someone running away, to me, it sounds like you’re just upset that there is finally something/someone that you can’t kill easily.

Its not just the ability to get away along, its the ability to get away no matter what the situation is, unless you are immobilized (there is no means in this game to permanently immobilize except with binding roots, but lets be honest that thing is weak). RTL, Lightning flash and mist form are not affected by cripples or chills, a huge advantage when it comes to escape or engaging.

Situations like OH CRAP I GOT 10 conditions on me and i’m at 30% hp (mist form>water atune>lighting flash> air atune> RTL.
Bam you are 10 miles away now.

If someone even manage to still chase you, pop lightning aura then fire atune into dagger 4.

Players who think, oh man I win most 1v1 situations in WvW, I must be getting good with the D/D ele are just fooling themselves. The build itself is what’s broken.

Yea, that heroic escape works as long as you have at least 2 of your utilities + water attunement + air attunement available (FYI: switching out of an attunement will put it on a ~9s cooldown even with 30 arcana). Hint: 2 Utilities available = 2 Utilities not used in fight = did not fight at full potential. Oh wow, and all of sudden there’s a cost involved in that heroic escape: holding back on valuable skills in case you have to make an escape.

So, dear Sir, please elaborate on why a class that has one of the best mobility in the game (at the cost of being squishy as kitten & having only moderate damage at best), running a build with survivability/escapeability being the #1 priority, AND holding back 2+ utility skills, AND managing its attunements correctly, should not be able to escape such situations? Everything about that build screams ‘Yea, I can escape tricky situations’, but Lt. Google is like ‘Yea well, but I don’t want you to, because I don’t like it! Nerf pl0x!’ ?!

Nischana.2036:

Yea D/D Eles can run away from everything.
But for me good 0/0/30/15/25 Rangers cant be beaten in 1v1 in the best cases you get a draw most of the time you will loose if you dont run.
And a D/D Ele is not able to kill a 0/0/30/20/20 Guardian.
Both Traid speccs are way more Tanky than Ele so you cant beat them if they play at your lvl, in the worst cases they know how to play against a Ele and easy counter all your Burst.

btw Ranger Greatsword 3 is really good for running too.

Bunkers can’t kill each others, shocking.

makku.2508:

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

Ian Kennedy.4563:

I agree with you Kirby. And, really LT. Google? are you really complaining about our ability to RUN AWAY? Why would anyone complain about someone running away, to me, it sounds like you’re just upset that there is finally something/someone that you can’t kill easily.

Its not just the ability to get away along, its the ability to get away no matter what the situation is, unless you are immobilized (there is no means in this game to permanently immobilize except with binding roots, but lets be honest that thing is weak). RTL, Lightning flash and mist form are not affected by cripples or chills, a huge advantage when it comes to escape or engaging.

Situations like OH CRAP I GOT 10 conditions on me and i’m at 30% hp (mist form>water atune>lighting flash> air atune> RTL.
Bam you are 10 miles away now.

If someone even manage to still chase you, pop lightning aura then fire atune into dagger 4.

Players who think, oh man I win most 1v1 situations in WvW, I must be getting good with the D/D ele are just fooling themselves. The build itself is what’s broken.

Yea, that heroic escape works as long as you have at least 2 of your utilities + water attunement + air attunement available (FYI: switching out of an attunement will put it on a ~9s cooldown even with 30 arcana). Hint: 2 Utilities available = 2 Utilities not used in fight = did not fight at full potential. Oh wow, and all of sudden there’s a cost involved in that heroic escape: holding back on valuable skills in case you have to make an escape.

So, dear Sir, please elaborate on why a class that has one of the best mobility in the game (at the cost of being squishy as kitten & having only moderate damage at best), running a build with survivability/escapeability being the #1 priority, AND holding back 2+ utility skills, AND managing its attunements correctly, should not be able to escape such situations? Everything about that build screams ‘Yea, I can escape tricky situations’, but Lt. Google is like ‘Yea well, but I don’t want you to, because I don’t like it! Nerf pl0x!’ ?!

Unless you have completely no experience in foresight then you’ll more often than not know when you’ll have to escape. RTL in most cases is already more than enough to escape. Lightning flash and Flame dash is just more options.

And yes its a build with surviability and mobility as its most important aspect, problem is that is has NO counters at all, you can’t stop a ele that is in the middle of your group from escape if he or she had half a brain about what a ele can do.

In the current broken state there is little you can do vs D/D Ele.
It’s not really just the damage/control which you can negate, you can match their speed with the proper tools, and you can even plow through Protection and shields.
But it’s the fact they can heal massive amounts and self-rally during mist that will simply have them out-last you unless you can too heal up a whole healthbar in seconds or rally on your own.
Just wait until next patch lands, Anet is aware of this hole and will fix it.

Again, can you stop a good thief who is determined to escape?

Red Falcon.8257:

In the current broken state there is little you can do vs D/D Ele.
It’s not really just the damage/control which you can negate, you can match their speed with the proper tools, and you can even plow through Protection and shields.
But it’s the fact they can heal massive amounts and self-rally during mist that will simply have them out-last you unless you can too heal up a whole healthbar in seconds or rally on your own.
Just wait until next patch lands, Anet is aware of this hole and will fix it.

er, what?

Shimond.2478:

Red Falcon.8257:

In the current broken state there is little you can do vs D/D Ele.
It’s not really just the damage/control which you can negate, you can match their speed with the proper tools, and you can even plow through Protection and shields.
But it’s the fact they can heal massive amounts and self-rally during mist that will simply have them out-last you unless you can too heal up a whole healthbar in seconds or rally on your own.
Just wait until next patch lands, Anet is aware of this hole and will fix it.

er, what?

Just peeps crying about classes they never bother to understand how to counter.