How does Stone Heart actually work?

How does Stone Heart actually work?

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Posted by: mcarswell.3768

mcarswell.3768

Not sure if this has been answered or if it’s still unknown, but does the new Stone Heart trait negate the entire attack if it was a crit? or just the crit portion?

so for example if you were going to be hit for 500, 1000 (crit!), 500. Does that become 500, 0, 500, or 500, 500, 500?

Berner | Nitzerebb | Suna | Shivayanama
[TSFR] – Jade Quarry

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Just the crit portion, it would be insanely broken if you took no direct damage in Earth when ever you were crit hit. I am guessing the Crit Damage portion is not added.

So say:

1,000 = Normal damage
2,000 = Crit damage

You would take 1,000damage rather than 2,000.

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Posted by: Columbo.5924

Columbo.5924

As they said in the live stream: “You cannot be critically hit while in earth attunement”. This means you will still take a normal hit.

Abaddon’s Mouth (DE)

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Posted by: Arcturus.8109

Arcturus.8109

Just the crit portion, it would be insanely broken if you took no direct damage in Earth when ever you were crit hit. I am guessing the Crit Damage portion is not added.

So say:

1,000 = Normal damage
2,000 = Crit damage

You would take 1,000damage rather than 2,000.

There is a big difference between not getting crit damage and not being crit at all. Thee difference is onCrit procs.
So against you enemy will have 0% critchance.

The more important question is: will lingering elements work with it? If it will then there is a chance to use this trait in some build, if not – gg wp anet. I’d really like to see answer to this question from some red-tagged guy, but knowing how many kitten were given to ele problems I have no hope.

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Posted by: Toolbox.9375

Toolbox.9375

I’m just wondering what the inevitable ICD will be. ArenaNet loves those stupid things.

I’m guessing ten seconds. Any other guesses?

The class is always greener on the other side.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

I’m just wondering what the inevitable ICD will be. ArenaNet loves those stupid things.

I’m guessing ten seconds. Any other guesses?

No ICD. It just requires you to be in an Attunement that is no threat. Once you leave that attunement you will be burst target for atleast 10seconds.

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Posted by: Przemek Pro.1309

Przemek Pro.1309

Yeah but when u leave earth attument u still have attu,emt bonuses for 5 sec

“We stopped checking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us”
Prnn [dF]
Driven By Fury

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Yeah but when u leave earth attument u still have attu,emt bonuses for 5 sec

No. Unless they change Lingering Elements which has yet to be confirmed it will not linger. Lingering Elements affects CERTAIN traits only.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Yeah but when u leave earth attument u still have attu,emt bonuses for 5 sec

No. Unless they change Lingering Elements which has yet to be confirmed it will not linger. Lingering Elements affects CERTAIN traits only.

That may be part of the bug fixed that ele are getting in fact all classes are getting some type of bug fix.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

That may be part of the bug fixed that ele are getting in fact all classes are getting some type of bug fix.

Now. If this does happen. That will make it VERY interesting. Though i am doubtful that it will happen.

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Posted by: TakeCare.3182

TakeCare.3182

Yeah but when u leave earth attument u still have attu,emt bonuses for 5 sec

No. Unless they change Lingering Elements which has yet to be confirmed it will not linger. Lingering Elements affects CERTAIN traits only.

That may be part of the bug fixed that ele are getting in fact all classes are getting some type of bug fix.

The devs have stated that Lingering Elements is currently working as intended.

Lingering Elements
All passive bonuses for that attunement should linger. This means Flame Barrier, Stone Flesh, Soothing Mist, and Zephyr’s Speed.

Source

I think this trait needs better wording. I hope you all understand why that trait would be wildly overpowered if it carried over everything particularly all 10% damage bonuses. You could simply slam through all attunements and then get 50% bonus damage. Similarly making other things work with this would requires those traits get lowered in the base case as well. I think this is a fine 15 point minor trait on its own and we can reword it and then discuss the merits of the other traits on their own.

To me, that is a better starting point for discussion than attempting to balance all of these effects with how they might work with a minor trait in Arcana. That would predicate the entire profession around that trait which is not what we want out of our minor traits.

Jon

Source

YouTube channel
Thief | Mesmer | Elementalist

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Yeah but when u leave earth attument u still have attu,emt bonuses for 5 sec

No. Unless they change Lingering Elements which has yet to be confirmed it will not linger. Lingering Elements affects CERTAIN traits only.

That may be part of the bug fixed that ele are getting in fact all classes are getting some type of bug fix.

The devs have stated that Lingering Elements is currently working as intended.

Lingering Elements
All passive bonuses for that attunement should linger. This means Flame Barrier, Stone Flesh, Soothing Mist, and Zephyr’s Speed.

Source

I think this trait needs better wording. I hope you all understand why that trait would be wildly overpowered if it carried over everything particularly all 10% damage bonuses. You could simply slam through all attunements and then get 50% bonus damage. Similarly making other things work with this would requires those traits get lowered in the base case as well. I think this is a fine 15 point minor trait on its own and we can reword it and then discuss the merits of the other traits on their own.

To me, that is a better starting point for discussion than attempting to balance all of these effects with how they might work with a minor trait in Arcana. That would predicate the entire profession around that trait which is not what we want out of our minor traits.

Jon

Source

This is why i think it won’t be changed. With that in mind i think this trait loses much of its appeal, for me at least.

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Posted by: Tom.8029

Tom.8029

Question: So if you have Stone Heart equipped, does this prevent you from receiving critical hits in general or only prevent the critical damage?

I’m asking this because just about every profession has a trait that says, “Gain (such and such) buff when you critically hit an enemy.”

So if you aren’t affected by critical hits at all, will they no longer receive these benefits?

Similarly, will you no longer say…. gain regeneration when hit by a critical hit when in Earth from…. uh… whatever that water trait is called.

Primordial Dragons [Drgn]
Fort Aspenwood Elementalist

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Posted by: TakeCare.3182

TakeCare.3182

This is why i think it won’t be changed. With that in mind i think this trait loses much of its appeal, for me at least.

Aw. I’m so excited for it. I already have gear and everything picked out. I think it will be quite good in the right spec. Who knows. It could be completely OP or a bust. I would imagine somewhere in the middle. Guess we’ll find out. :P

Question: So if you have Stone Heart equipped, does this prevent you from receiving critical hits in general or only prevent the critical damage?

I’m asking this because just about every profession has a trait that says, “Gain (such and such) buff when you critically hit an enemy.”

So if you aren’t affected by critical hits at all, will they no longer receive these benefits?

Similarly, will you no longer say…. gain regeneration when hit by a critical hit when in Earth from…. uh… whatever that water trait is called.

Basically the attacks that would have been crits will become non-crits. As a result, those on-crit traits, sigils, or whatever will not proc.

YouTube channel
Thief | Mesmer | Elementalist

(edited by TakeCare.3182)

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Aw. I’m so excited for it. I already have gear and everything picked out. I think it will be quite good in the right spec. Who knows. It could be completely OP or a bust. I would imagine somewhere in the middle. Guess we’ll find out. :P

It won’t work with Lingering Elements. It will be FoTM for a bit until people see that it really has little effect in practice. Seeing as the attunement you have to be in, is rather poorly designed on pretty much every weapon set. Whats the point of not being able to be Crit Hit, if you yourself are no threat what so ever.

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Posted by: cheese.4739

cheese.4739

The more important question is: will lingering elements work with it? If it will then there is a chance to use this trait in some build, if not – gg wp anet. I’d really like to see answer to this question from some red-tagged guy, but knowing how many kitten were given to ele problems I have no hope.

It hopefully will – the only real argument against Lingering Elements working with all “while attuned” traits is that you could potentially stack +60% damage or something, if you took all the “while attuned” traits and cycled quickly. This would, however:
- only last for a second or so
- lock you out of all attunements after
- lack a lot of the utility that comes from other, non-damage-increasing traits

Without Lingering Elements, this could maybe still be useful for mitigation of massive bursts… or in conjure builds?

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Posted by: cheese.4739

cheese.4739

Whats the point of not being able to be Crit Hit, if you yourself are no threat what so ever.

Y’know how bunker Guards are the only build type that’s stuck around at the top of the meta since forever? Low damage output but very high survivability makes for a very good bunker - combining Stone Heart with Cleansing Water could make for a pretty durable point holder.

I’m thinking maybe Staff, 0/0/6/6/2, with protection on auras, stability on Earth Attune, regen when crit (which should function whenever against condi foes and so not hiding in Earth Attunement), something else in master-level water (edit: oh, Alacrity, for reduced field cooldowns, of course!), and maybe Arcane Mastery (paired with Arcane utilities) for utility in the Staff’s fields.
Gotta wait and see to test this, of course - especially to find out which rune, sigil and amulet combinations are most appropriate.

(edited by cheese.4739)

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Posted by: phaeris.7604

phaeris.7604

Think of stone heart this way.

You switch to water to get some heals off on yourself, maybe 5k worth?

When you switch to earth you can end up negating 10k of damage from a burst in crits + effects.

It’s actually more beneficial than healing in terms of sustain.

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Posted by: Zutha.5091

Zutha.5091

So what happens if a thief’s trait is said to Guarantee a crit hit, but the ele trait says you can’t get crit hit?

Will the game explode?

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Posted by: Przemek Pro.1309

Przemek Pro.1309

So what happens if a thief’s trait is said to Guarantee a crit hit, but the ele trait says you can’t get crit hit?

Will the game explode?

Dude it will be normal hit 2k backstab no 10k

“We stopped checking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us”
Prnn [dF]
Driven By Fury

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Posted by: cheese.4739

cheese.4739

So what happens if a thief’s trait is said to Guarantee a crit hit, but the ele trait says you can’t get crit hit?

Will the game explode?

Guaranteed crit = 100% crit chance
No crit = 0% crit chance
100 * 0 = 0

Even if ‘guaranteed crits’ actually give a higher than 100% chance… such as maybe a 200% chance, which would cancel out with a 50% crit chance reduction to make 100%? That 200 * 0 still works out at 0.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Guaranteed crit = 100% crit chance
No crit = 0% crit chance
100 * 0 = 0

Even if ‘guaranteed crits’ actually give a higher than 100% chance… such as maybe a 200% chance, which would cancel out with a 50% crit chance reduction to make 100%? That 200 * 0 still works out at 0.

Not going to happen i think. It will just do normal damage.

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Posted by: cheese.4739

cheese.4739

Normal damage is what happens with 0% crit chance, sorry for not being clear on that.

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Posted by: naphack.9346

naphack.9346

So what happens if a thief’s trait is said to Guarantee a crit hit, but the ele trait says you can’t get crit hit?

Will the game explode?

you can’t critically hit obstacles with that trait, either, so why should it work on ele?

The only crime, turrets committed, is being good against the celestial meta.
The mob has spoken and the turrets shall be burnt at the stake.

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Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

It won’t work with Lingering Elements. It will be FoTM for a bit until people see that it really has little effect in practice. Seeing as the attunement you have to be in, is rather poorly designed on pretty much every weapon set. Whats the point of not being able to be Crit Hit, if you yourself are no threat what so ever.

“little effect in practice”
Do you realize that Stone Heart works pretty much as another, additive, layer of Protection?
The damage reduction on a profession with 40% crit chance (without counting fury and other crit chance amplifiers most burst professions have) and 50% crit damage is about 29% on average (just weight the damage possibilities with their chances and compare the results). So in a worse case scenario (against a burst profession with no fury, no guaranted crit hits, no crit chance amplifiers) you get a damage reduction similiar to protection.

Now add that to the Protection you already get from Elemental Attunement or other sources and you’ll realize that this trait is an amazing damage mitigation tool.

It doesn’t matter that you have to stay in earth for the trait to work. No elementalist has ever sit in one attunement, why you should start doing so for a single trait? You swap to earth just to get massive damage mitigation at the cost of reduced damage output, that’s it.
It is called opportunity cost, something that most people forget these days in GW2.

It will pretty much negate any enemy focus also on berserker eles since the damage reduction is just insane. I already see thieves and warriors complaining about elementalist being unkillable.

(edited by sorrow.2364)

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Posted by: naphack.9346

naphack.9346

Just wanted to mention another use of the trait:
You can cast meteor shower and swap to earth, while casting, giving you some nice resistance against some collateral AoE, you might need to shrug off, while you are channeling

The only crime, turrets committed, is being good against the celestial meta.
The mob has spoken and the turrets shall be burnt at the stake.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

You swap to earth just to get massive damage mitigation at the cost of reduced damage output, that’s it.
It is called opportunity cost, something that most people forget these days in GW2.

It means nothing against the biggest threat to ele (imo) – Thief. They can burst you any moment they want. With you in Earth you are no threat so they can continue and will continue to attack until you are forced to swap to heal up and such. Then what? press of a button, into stealth and hello Backstab and HS spamming.

So what has that going into Earth and negating the damage from BS really done? Nothing. Just delaying your death. This trait along with all of the others will be FoTM for a while until people realize that in the end it does very little to stop the biggest threats to us.

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Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

It means nothing against the biggest threat to ele (imo) – Thief. They can burst you any moment they want. With you in Earth you are no threat so they can continue and will continue to attack until you are forced to swap to heal up and such. Then what? press of a button, into stealth and hello Backstab and HS spamming.

So what has that going into Earth and negating the damage from BS really done? Nothing. Just delaying your death. This trait along with all of the others will be FoTM for a while until people realize that in the end it does very little to stop the biggest threats to us.

A thief can’t just keep attacking you for the entire time, since it either runs out of initiative or it just exposes himself to your team’s focus.

According to your reasoning, no profession can survive thieves.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

A thief can’t just keep attacking you for the entire time, since it either runs out of initiative or it just exposes himself to your team’s focus.

According to your reasoning, no profession can survive thieves.

So, not heard of auto attack at the very least then? ANY class can keep attacking you – unless you somehow manage to run. Earth is NO threat to any class so they have no need to use defensive skills, So you can’t be crit – that does not mean you can’t be hit.

Hell i can do 2k+ Damage on my Mesmer Auto attack without critting, as just one example.

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Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

So, not heard of auto attack at the very least then? ANY class can keep attacking you – unless you somehow manage to run. Earth is NO threat to any class so they have no need to use defensive skills, So you can’t be crit – that does not mean you can’t be hit.

Hell i can do 2k+ Damage on my Mesmer Auto attack without critting, as just one example.

That’s the point. If the thief is autoattacking you, he’s exposing himself to your team focus, which what you want him to do.

No profession is going to hit when they are under focus, unless you’re talking about 1v1 or some imbalanced WvW.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

That’s the point. If the thief is autoattacking you, he’s exposing himself to your team focus, which what you want him to do.

No profession is going to hit when they are under focus, unless you’re talking about 1v1 or some imbalanced WvW.

Silly me, I forget that an Ele has to run with a group to keep them alive. Now, just for a moment think about this insane notion -

Solo.

Crazy, I know. Yet some players actually don’t want to have to be followed around by guards so they aren’t killed in seconds. Now assume that you are in a solo situation. You versus a Thief. Do you think that Stone Heart is really going to have THAT much affect on the eventual outcome of the fight?

Now, even in group fights. You assume that you have people standing around and following the ele so they don’t die. Kind of sad yet actually needed at times. What if you are in an even fight but the others are also busy fighting – then what? run to them for help?

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Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

Silly me, I forget that an Ele has to run with a group to keep them alive. Now, just for a moment think about this insane notion -

Solo.

Crazy, I know. Yet some players actually don’t want to have to be followed around by guards so they aren’t killed in seconds. Now assume that you are in a solo situation. You versus a Thief. Do you think that Stone Heart is really going to have THAT much affect on the eventual outcome of the fight?

Now, even in group fights. You assume that you have people standing around and following the ele so they don’t die. Kind of sad yet actually needed at times. What if you are in an even fight but the others are also busy fighting – then what? run to them for help?

Dude, I’m talking about competitive PvP, not casual WvW encounters, in which that trait is amazing.

Elementalist is extremely good as group support and in team fights and Stone Heart isn’t a trait made for solo roamers.

Most professions die to thieves roamers anyway because… guess what… hold on… WvW is IMBALANCED! That’s right! This game isn’t balanced about 1vs1 situations. Surprised?

Point is that while thieves can keep pressuring you as they want when solo roaming, which is why they are imbalanced in that matter, they can’t in teamfights because they expose themselves to AoEs and team focus.

And, FYI, thief is always the first target when he exposes himself.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Dude, I’m talking about competitive PvP, not casual WvW encounters, in which that trait is amazing.

Elementalist is extremely good as group support and in team fights and Stone Heart isn’t a trait made for solo roamers.

Most professions die to thieves roamers anyway because… guess what… hold on… WvW is IMBALANCED! That’s right! This game isn’t balanced about 1vs1 situations. Surprised?

Point is that while thieves can keep pressuring you as they want when solo roaming, which is why they are imbalanced in that matter, they can’t in teamfights because they expose themselves to AoEs and team focus.

And, FYI, thief is always the first target when he exposes himself.

Oh yeah, i forgot. Anet and the stupid idea of balancing a game around a dead mode….That says it all. So for Ele to be any “use” in S/TPvP they will have to run a support build with this trait…Oh that sounds fun.

S/TPvP was dead within the first few months of the games release. Might as well stop trying to turn it into an eSport and actually concentrate on the modes that even from the start of the game out numbered S/TPvP in terms of playing using that mode.

So why is such a trait that is USELESS in 2/3 of the game any good? I mean its going to be SERIOUSLY pointless in PvE. 99% of the content is face roll easy and the other 1% contains 1hit kill mechanics, that i some how dont think this trait will effect.

Then we get into WvW…

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Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

Oh yeah, i forgot. Anet and the stupid idea of balancing a game around a dead mode….That says it all. So for Ele to be any “use” in S/TPvP they will have to run a support build with this trait…Oh that sounds fun.

S/TPvP was dead within the first few months of the games release. Might as well stop trying to turn it into an eSport and actually concentrate on the modes that even from the start of the game out numbered S/TPvP in terms of playing using that mode.

So why is such a trait that is USELESS in 2/3 of the game any good? I mean its going to be SERIOUSLY pointless in PvE. 99% of the content is face roll easy and the other 1% contains 1hit kill mechanics, that i some how dont think this trait will effect.

Then we get into WvW…

It’s not that the trait is useless, it is just that you are using broken premises that applies to pretty much any profession facing a thief to prove that this trait is useless.
It is a damage mitigation trait and as much as any damage mitigation, it isn’t useless, but it looks like that in your opinion it is because a thief can still kill you if you use that trait.

I don’t care about your opinion regarding PvP. Fact is that WvW is popular because it is casual and casual, by definition, means more accessible and more satisfying because people don’t have to get better to get good results.
You don’t need to be a genius to realize how casuals are running around WvW and obsidian sanctum asking for 1vs1 running perplexity condition builds to get instant satisfaction without efforts.

(edited by sorrow.2364)

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Posted by: Liewec.2896

Liewec.2896

No ICD. It just requires you to be in an Attunement that is no threat.

i’ll be trying out a crit-immune conjurer build for pvp when this patch comes.
i anticipate hitting pretty darn hard (not as hard as water attune conjurer though)

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

i’ll be trying out a crit-immune conjurer build for pvp when this patch comes.
i anticipate hitting pretty darn hard (not as hard as water attune conjurer though)

Conjure builds i just don’t think are viable. Until they fix Conjures. I think they should remove the ally version (make it a trait) remove the usage limit and then it might be possible.

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Posted by: Lachanche.6859

Lachanche.6859

0 10 0 30 30 d/d eles usually use frost armor and switch to earth when they need to take a punishment, this trait seems useful in such scenarios but the problem is that it would require giving up 30 arcana, losing protection on attunement as well as evasive arcana (and fury). I don’ t really see any usage for this trait.

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Posted by: cheese.4739

cheese.4739

0 10 0 30 30 d/d eles usually use frost armor and switch to earth when they need to take a punishment, this trait seems useful in such scenarios but the problem is that it would require giving up 30 arcana, losing protection on attunement as well as evasive arcana (and fury). I don’ t really see any usage for this trait.

Earth V: Elemental Shielding
Gain protection when applying an aura to yourself or an ally.

Adept trait in the Earth line, gives you protection whenever you cast your Frost or Shocking Aura skills, or gain an aura through a combo (executed by you), other trait, or runeset. You can take Air I: Zephyr’s Boon for some fury and swiftness, too.

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Posted by: Avead.5760

Avead.5760

i’ll be trying out a crit-immune conjurer build for pvp when this patch comes.
i anticipate hitting pretty darn hard (not as hard as water attune conjurer though)

Conjure builds i just don’t think are viable. Until they fix Conjures. I think they should remove the ally version (make it a trait) remove the usage limit and then it might be possible.

They are not viable only because ele needs to rotate attunements to use skills to defend himself. But think about what you would get by going into earth.
An ele with this trait will get 3 /4 the total damage of a 30% crit chance +fury, 50 crit damage build and then weaknes (goep anyone??) will make that damage x3/4 and protection x2/3.
That is 3/8 the damage from power attacks.If you have 15k health that basically makes it 40k effective health (only againast power obviously) without affecting your already high toughness from going into the trait line and most importanly ..witout messing your effective healing from your heals regen,water minor 5 and heals from other classes like elite spirit etc.
Youd be a 40k hp tank that heals for 20k just from your 6 skills and 1 weapon heal while putting some dps with conjures.
And of course you wont be staying in earth all the time. This trait is effective only when you are taking direct damage..so theres no point staying in earth if you are attacked by condies or you arent focused. Theres still dodging ,active defences,evades,cleanses afterall in the rest of your kitten nal plus the good old protection . In fact it ll probably be better to just face tank most of incoming damage in earth so that you save all your evades in order to survive till next earth rotation.

Honestly im so pumped up about the patch. It would be the first time that ele has at least 1 amazing gm trait for every trait line..Its like my dreams for over 1.5 years

(edited by Avead.5760)

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

What do you do when the duration or usage limit on the Conjure is up? You are back with the TERRIBLE Earth skills . This is unless you stay with your dropped Conjure (and no one else steals it) this is simply not possible in so much of the game that it doesn’t mean anything.

25 skill presses (with trait) means nothing. The usage limit is affected by auto attacks, counts when you hit nothing, count when blocked, Aegis, invul and everything else. The duration limit should be enough that they should not need charges at all.

They should turn Conjures into something like Kits except FGS of course and the skills themselves would need to be adjusted but if that were to happen (which it wont :/) then it could have something good but until then Conjures won’t be viable – just a niche used mostly for a single skill and then dropped.