Guild Wars 2

Burning Precision: cooldown reduced to 4. (this will add synergy because most skills while tuned to fire when using Pyromancer’s Training is a multiple of 4).
Conjurer: Removed and replaced with the signet trait that gave fire aura.
Sunspot: Applies burn
One with fire: Increases the duration of might by 20%
Blinding Ashes: Cooldown reduced to 6 seconds

Competitive to what? The line is already competitive.

Blinding ashe icd needs to be per person not per activation that alone would fix a lot about fire.

Poelala.2830:

Burning Precision: cooldown reduced to 4. (this will add synergy because most skills while tuned to fire when using Pyromancer’s Training is a multiple of 4).
Conjurer: Removed and replaced with the signet trait that gave fire aura.
Sunspot: Applies burn
One with fire: Increases the duration of might by 20%
Blinding Ashes: Cooldown reduced to 6 seconds

I like the one in bold but the conjurer change…well then which traitline will “buff” conjures? I know they’re not that good but we need a trait for conjures anyways.

Feanor.2358:

Competitive to what? The line is already competitive.

This is mainly for PvP, the Fire line is pretty terrible in that mode.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire's_Embrace

Pretty please.

Jski.6180:

Blinding ashe icd needs to be per person not per activation that alone would fix a lot about fire.

The cooldown needs to be removed completely. Why is it that necro’s deathly chill, which is infinitely more powerful than blinding ashes, has zero cooldown but this does? Especially considering that necro farts out chill with every step they take and ele’s burn access is nothing compared to necro’s chill access, i don’t see why we should have a cd on our gm trait when they don’t have a cd on theirs. Considering how powerful both are, they should be the ones with the 8 sec cooldown and we should have none. And even then, we still wouldn’t have as much access to blind as thief does. Given the current state of ele as far as offensive builds go, this wouldn’t be the least bit overpowered. It would just put us on par with other dps builds.

Nikkinella.8254:

Jski.6180:

Blinding ashe icd needs to be per person not per activation that alone would fix a lot about fire.

The cooldown needs to be removed completely. Why is it that necro’s deathly chill, which is infinitely more powerful than blinding ashes, has zero cooldown but this does? Especially considering that necro farts out chill with every step they take and ele’s burn access is nothing compared to necro’s chill access, i don’t see why we should have a cd on our gm trait when they don’t have a cd on theirs. Considering how powerful both are, they should be the ones with the 8 sec cooldown and we should have none. And even then, we still wouldn’t have as much access to blind as thief does. Given the current state of ele as far as offensive builds go, this wouldn’t be the least bit overpowered. It would just put us on par with other dps builds.

Well, the reason why we should absolutely keep our icd on blinding ashes is because of traits like burning precision and skills like glyph of elemental power, flame wall, flame strike (an auto attack) would absolutely make elementalist OVER POWERED. It’s a false equivalency, in all honest.

Nikkinella.8254:

Jski.6180:

Blinding ashe icd needs to be per person not per activation that alone would fix a lot about fire.

The cooldown needs to be removed completely. Why is it that necro’s deathly chill, which is infinitely more powerful than blinding ashes, has zero cooldown but this does? Especially considering that necro farts out chill with every step they take and ele’s burn access is nothing compared to necro’s chill access, i don’t see why we should have a cd on our gm trait when they don’t have a cd on theirs. Considering how powerful both are, they should be the ones with the 8 sec cooldown and we should have none. And even then, we still wouldn’t have as much access to blind as thief does. Given the current state of ele as far as offensive builds go, this wouldn’t be the least bit overpowered. It would just put us on par with other dps builds.

Icd need to be there and on more skills but the icd needs to be per person not per activation like glyph of element power. A kind of low stacking effect but able to land it on every one.

So i would even say put it on a longer cd but every time you burn some one you blind them but if you burn them right after it will not blind them. Same needs to be done with crit condis and even stun effects (mind you i think the stun effect needs to be a lot more impact full).

Jski.6180:

Nikkinella.8254:

Jski.6180:

Blinding ashe icd needs to be per person not per activation that alone would fix a lot about fire.

The cooldown needs to be removed completely. Why is it that necro’s deathly chill, which is infinitely more powerful than blinding ashes, has zero cooldown but this does? Especially considering that necro farts out chill with every step they take and ele’s burn access is nothing compared to necro’s chill access, i don’t see why we should have a cd on our gm trait when they don’t have a cd on theirs. Considering how powerful both are, they should be the ones with the 8 sec cooldown and we should have none. And even then, we still wouldn’t have as much access to blind as thief does. Given the current state of ele as far as offensive builds go, this wouldn’t be the least bit overpowered. It would just put us on par with other dps builds.

Icd need to be there and on more skills but the icd needs to be per person not per activation like glyph of element power. A kind of low stacking effect but able to land it on every one.

So i would even say put it on a longer cd but every time you burn some one you blind them but if you burn them right after it will not blind them. Same needs to be done with crit condis and even stun effects (mind you i think the stun effect needs to be a lot more impact full).

If we have to keep our Icd, necro needs one for deathly chill. even if we take every possible way we can get burn, reaper still outputs more chill than we output burn. And thief will still be able to blindspam more than we can. I still think its perfectly fair for our icd to be removed entirely on that alone. They either need to buff us to that point, or nerf them down to our level. I’d be fine with keeping an icd if they also gave necros an icd of 10+ seconds. But yeah, you’re right there is too much spam in the game already and powercreep is never good. toning everyone else down would be a better solution.

Catastro.8410:

Feanor.2358:

Competitive to what? The line is already competitive.

This is mainly for PvP, the Fire line is pretty terrible in that mode.

Then put a [PvP] tag in the title. Because the line is pretty great in PvE.

Nikkinella.8254:

Jski.6180:

Nikkinella.8254:

Jski.6180:

Blinding ashe icd needs to be per person not per activation that alone would fix a lot about fire.

The cooldown needs to be removed completely. Why is it that necro’s deathly chill, which is infinitely more powerful than blinding ashes, has zero cooldown but this does? Especially considering that necro farts out chill with every step they take and ele’s burn access is nothing compared to necro’s chill access, i don’t see why we should have a cd on our gm trait when they don’t have a cd on theirs. Considering how powerful both are, they should be the ones with the 8 sec cooldown and we should have none. And even then, we still wouldn’t have as much access to blind as thief does. Given the current state of ele as far as offensive builds go, this wouldn’t be the least bit overpowered. It would just put us on par with other dps builds.

Icd need to be there and on more skills but the icd needs to be per person not per activation like glyph of element power. A kind of low stacking effect but able to land it on every one.

So i would even say put it on a longer cd but every time you burn some one you blind them but if you burn them right after it will not blind them. Same needs to be done with crit condis and even stun effects (mind you i think the stun effect needs to be a lot more impact full).

If we have to keep our Icd, necro needs one for deathly chill. even if we take every possible way we can get burn, reaper still outputs more chill than we output burn. And thief will still be able to blindspam more than we can. I still think its perfectly fair for our icd to be removed entirely on that alone. They either need to buff us to that point, or nerf them down to our level. I’d be fine with keeping an icd if they also gave necros an icd of 10+ seconds. But yeah, you’re right there is too much spam in the game already and powercreep is never good. toning everyone else down would be a better solution.

It would need to hit harder but i agree an icd would fit necro chilling death as well as some blinds from thf.

Nikkinella.8254:

Jski.6180:

Nikkinella.8254:

Jski.6180:

Blinding ashe icd needs to be per person not per activation that alone would fix a lot about fire.

The cooldown needs to be removed completely. Why is it that necro’s deathly chill, which is infinitely more powerful than blinding ashes, has zero cooldown but this does? Especially considering that necro farts out chill with every step they take and ele’s burn access is nothing compared to necro’s chill access, i don’t see why we should have a cd on our gm trait when they don’t have a cd on theirs. Considering how powerful both are, they should be the ones with the 8 sec cooldown and we should have none. And even then, we still wouldn’t have as much access to blind as thief does. Given the current state of ele as far as offensive builds go, this wouldn’t be the least bit overpowered. It would just put us on par with other dps builds.

Icd need to be there and on more skills but the icd needs to be per person not per activation like glyph of element power. A kind of low stacking effect but able to land it on every one.

So i would even say put it on a longer cd but every time you burn some one you blind them but if you burn them right after it will not blind them. Same needs to be done with crit condis and even stun effects (mind you i think the stun effect needs to be a lot more impact full).

If we have to keep our Icd, necro needs one for deathly chill. even if we take every possible way we can get burn, reaper still outputs more chill than we output burn. And thief will still be able to blindspam more than we can. I still think its perfectly fair for our icd to be removed entirely on that alone. They either need to buff us to that point, or nerf them down to our level. I’d be fine with keeping an icd if they also gave necros an icd of 10+ seconds. But yeah, you’re right there is too much spam in the game already and powercreep is never good. toning everyone else down would be a better solution.

The difference is, DC doesn’t produce a CC effect but a damaging one. If you put an ICD on it, it becomes trash in PvE. On the other hand, if you remove the ICD on Blinding Ashes, it becomes OP in PvP… and still remains trash in PvE.

Feanor.2358:

Nikkinella.8254:

Jski.6180:

Nikkinella.8254:

Jski.6180:

Blinding ashe icd needs to be per person not per activation that alone would fix a lot about fire.

The cooldown needs to be removed completely. Why is it that necro’s deathly chill, which is infinitely more powerful than blinding ashes, has zero cooldown but this does? Especially considering that necro farts out chill with every step they take and ele’s burn access is nothing compared to necro’s chill access, i don’t see why we should have a cd on our gm trait when they don’t have a cd on theirs. Considering how powerful both are, they should be the ones with the 8 sec cooldown and we should have none. And even then, we still wouldn’t have as much access to blind as thief does. Given the current state of ele as far as offensive builds go, this wouldn’t be the least bit overpowered. It would just put us on par with other dps builds.

Icd need to be there and on more skills but the icd needs to be per person not per activation like glyph of element power. A kind of low stacking effect but able to land it on every one.

So i would even say put it on a longer cd but every time you burn some one you blind them but if you burn them right after it will not blind them. Same needs to be done with crit condis and even stun effects (mind you i think the stun effect needs to be a lot more impact full).

If we have to keep our Icd, necro needs one for deathly chill. even if we take every possible way we can get burn, reaper still outputs more chill than we output burn. And thief will still be able to blindspam more than we can. I still think its perfectly fair for our icd to be removed entirely on that alone. They either need to buff us to that point, or nerf them down to our level. I’d be fine with keeping an icd if they also gave necros an icd of 10+ seconds. But yeah, you’re right there is too much spam in the game already and powercreep is never good. toning everyone else down would be a better solution.

The difference is, DC doesn’t produce a CC effect but a damaging one. If you put an ICD on it, it becomes trash in PvE. On the other hand, if you remove the ICD on Blinding Ashes, it becomes OP in PvP… and still remains trash in PvE.

Well on crits for ele procures condi dmg yet both of them are on icd and must be on a cirt that may or may not work because its still a % that they will trigger (% of a % are super low odds). So why should necro DC not be on an icd? Ele would love a torment on chill or even just a bleed.

Jski.6180:

Blinding ashe icd needs to be per person not per activation that alone would fix a lot about fire.

This alone is all that needs changing. Though Pyromancer’s Puissance going to 20s might would be great too.

Jski.6180:

Well on crits for ele procures condi dmg yet both of them are on icd and must be on a cirt that may or may not work because its still a % that they will trigger (% of a % are super low odds). So why should necro DC not be on an icd? Ele would love a torment on chill or even just a bleed.

Basically you should evaluate the number of applications per unit of time.

Ele procs are on-crit, but then we have 100% crit chance in a meta comp, making them effectively on-hit. And we hit a lot. Ele’s damage relies on stacking AOE skills which hit multiple times and/or multiple enemies. Lightning Orb, Lightning Storm, Overload Air, Overload Fire, Phoenix, Wildfire, Lava Font, Meteor Shower, Burning Retreat, Burning Speed… And on top of that we’re talking about applying Burning, which is the most damaging condi. Not having ICD on these procs would be broken beyond belief.

Deathly Chill is on-chill-application. They can’t hope to match the number of applied chills per second with the number of our hits per second. That’s why DC needs to apply with 1:1 rate, and even apply multiple stacks of bleeding to be relevant.

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

Well on crits for ele procures condi dmg yet both of them are on icd and must be on a cirt that may or may not work because its still a % that they will trigger (% of a % are super low odds). So why should necro DC not be on an icd? Ele would love a torment on chill or even just a bleed.

Basically you should evaluate the number of applications per unit of time.

Ele procs are on-crit, but then we have 100% crit chance in a meta comp, making them effectively on-hit. And we hit a lot. Ele’s damage relies on stacking AOE skills which hit multiple times and/or multiple enemies. Lightning Orb, Lightning Storm, Overload Air, Overload Fire, Phoenix, Wildfire, Lava Font, Meteor Shower, Burning Retreat, Burning Speed… And on top of that we’re talking about applying Burning, which is the most damaging condi. Not having ICD on these procs would be broken beyond belief.

Deathly Chill is on-chill-application. They can’t hope to match the number of applied chills per second with the number of our hits per second. That’s why DC needs to apply with 1:1 rate, and even apply multiple stacks of bleeding to be relevant.

Sad that our boons are easily corrupted.

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

Well on crits for ele procures condi dmg yet both of them are on icd and must be on a cirt that may or may not work because its still a % that they will trigger (% of a % are super low odds). So why should necro DC not be on an icd? Ele would love a torment on chill or even just a bleed.

Basically you should evaluate the number of applications per unit of time.

Ele procs are on-crit, but then we have 100% crit chance in a meta comp, making them effectively on-hit. And we hit a lot. Ele’s damage relies on stacking AOE skills which hit multiple times and/or multiple enemies. Lightning Orb, Lightning Storm, Overload Air, Overload Fire, Phoenix, Wildfire, Lava Font, Meteor Shower, Burning Retreat, Burning Speed… And on top of that we’re talking about applying Burning, which is the most damaging condi. Not having ICD on these procs would be broken beyond belief.

Deathly Chill is on-chill-application. They can’t hope to match the number of applied chills per second with the number of our hits per second. That’s why DC needs to apply with 1:1 rate, and even apply multiple stacks of bleeding to be relevant.

Even the full meta build ele dose not have a 100% change to crit. And we are talking 33% if it dose and then its on a cd of 3 sec or 5 sec for the pure burning and they are only 1 stack for the arcain one and 2 stacks for the pure burning. It is nothing compared to DC. DC i think is easier to land because the chill is more known when its going to happen vs the rng of crits. Being able to chose when you apply effect is far better and icd per activation dose not let you chose when your going to apply these effects for ele you just hope you apply them to the right target and your AOE (something that ele as a class is know for ) become more of a problem then helpful. That the turth of ele it has traits that do not help it as a class its as if the traits and weapons effect where made at different times and for different classes.

I would take a DC effect on ele for any of its soft cc any day over what on burn on stun and on crit effect it has now.

Wrong. You get supplied with enough group buffs (Spotter, Banner of Discipline, etc.) to max your crit chance. Overload Air, Lightning Storm and Lightning Orb all do 4 attacks per second, which are guaranteed crits. Without an ICD you could easily get 2-3 stacks of burning from Burning Precision alone, and unlike DC it’s not a grandmaster, it’s a minor. Don’t get me wrong, I’d like that too, but it’s clearly OP. While DC is pretty much the only saving grace of the necros. Without it the class becomes pure garbage in PvE.

Feanor.2358:

Wrong. You get supplied with enough group buffs (Spotter, Banner of Discipline, etc.) to max your crit chance. Overload Air, Lightning Storm and Lightning Orb all do 4 attacks per second, which are guaranteed crits. Without an ICD you could easily get 2-3 stacks of burning from Burning Precision alone, and unlike DC it’s not a grandmaster, it’s a minor. Don’t get me wrong, I’d like that too, but it’s clearly OP. While DC is pretty much the only saving grace of the necros. Without it the class becomes pure garbage in PvE.

Any thing that only applying 2 to 3 stack of burning in pve is grabages even if you have that 100% crit. That why necro are so much stronger in pve when it comes to condis. The arguments are the same i am just talking about pulling things back where your talking about pushing things forward. Necro have the effect ele should and if you wish to keep necro DC you NEED to put other classes effect on par with it. Make your chose because right now DC is OP as is and ele on effect are very UP.

Mate, you don’t know what you’re talking about. First, 3 extra stacks of burning would be a noticeable increase even in power build. But of course, you wouldn’t run power, you’d run condi. Second, a burn ele can outdps a condi necro as it is. Third, Burning Precision is taken in every meta build. Because it’s good enough even for power builds. Last, but not least (and I repeat myself), you’re comparing a minor to a grandmaster. You expect them to be on the same power level? That’d just be awful balance. You’re wrong on so many level it’s not even funny anymore.

Jski, have you seen my white charr staff ele in EBG (on Mag)? If so, I’m sure you can attest to the validity of fire damage. I haven’t played for a couple days, though. It works really well in EoTM, too. Staff with fire is the one spike damage that resist-all warriors and revs need to watch out for; and necros coming out of shroud. A lot of plate wears in WvW are not high toughness because they can afford not to be, until a dps ele shows up. Burning retreat, lightning flash, reflect, blind on burn (sometimes used), overloading are all great for making glass a valid option. Although my 6pc is mauraders, along with both rings. You just need to tuck yourself back into your group when there’s any gank playing outside, and never try to rez anyone because an epi will slaughter you 9/10.

Feanor.2358:

Mate, you don’t know what you’re talking about. First, 3 extra stacks of burning would be a noticeable increase even in power build. But of course, you wouldn’t run power, you’d run condi. Second, a burn ele can outdps a condi necro as it is. Third, Burning Precision is taken in every meta build. Because it’s good enough even for power builds. Last, but not least (and I repeat myself), you’re comparing a minor to a grandmaster. You expect them to be on the same power level? That’d just be awful balance. You’re wrong on so many level it’s not even funny anymore.

3 of the 2 that your applying? Get over your self ele not even close to the condi out put of a necro. And to ask for things to put on the same level is a reasonable request its called balancing not “well i like this class more then others so its allowed to be stronger” there is an give and take.

Feanor.2358:

Mate, you don’t know what you’re talking about. First, 3 extra stacks of burning would be a noticeable increase even in power build. But of course, you wouldn’t run power, you’d run condi. Second, a burn ele can outdps a condi necro as it is. Third, Burning Precision is taken in every meta build. Because it’s good enough even for power builds. Last, but not least (and I repeat myself), you’re comparing a minor to a grandmaster. You expect them to be on the same power level? That’d just be awful balance. You’re wrong on so many level it’s not even funny anymore.

While I agree that the trait would be OP without at least an 1s ICD, comparing minor to grandmaster doesn’t hold up anymore. There are lots of extremely strong minor traits in the elite specs, some of them almost as strong as the grandmaster, but certainly lots of them are stronger than master traits.

Tomiyou.3790:

Feanor.2358:

Mate, you don’t know what you’re talking about. First, 3 extra stacks of burning would be a noticeable increase even in power build. But of course, you wouldn’t run power, you’d run condi. Second, a burn ele can outdps a condi necro as it is. Third, Burning Precision is taken in every meta build. Because it’s good enough even for power builds. Last, but not least (and I repeat myself), you’re comparing a minor to a grandmaster. You expect them to be on the same power level? That’d just be awful balance. You’re wrong on so many level it’s not even funny anymore.

While I agree that the trait would be OP without at least an 1s ICD, comparing minor to grandmaster doesn’t hold up anymore. There are lots of extremely strong minor traits in the elite specs, some of them almost as strong as the grandmaster, but certainly lots of them are stronger than master traits.

At a point the master vs GM etc.. becomes meaningless because your going to get the full line even if you do not want to. Now if you could chose to get only some of a line they the vs each level of name has reason but with out that effect all traits are the same level. We just like to pretend that it means something still.

Feanor.2358:

Mate, you don’t know what you’re talking about. First, 3 extra stacks of burning would be a noticeable increase even in power build. But of course, you wouldn’t run power, you’d run condi. Second, a burn ele can outdps a condi necro as it is. Third, Burning Precision is taken in every meta build. Because it’s good enough even for power builds. Last, but not least (and I repeat myself), you’re comparing a minor to a grandmaster. You expect them to be on the same power level? That’d just be awful balance. You’re wrong on so many level it’s not even funny anymore.

Dude, you’re talking about pve. I’m speaking from a purely wvw perspective. Don’t touch it in pve, i don’t care if its op there or not because I don’t play pve. The fact of the matter it is that it is overpowered how it is in wvw. It needs an icd in WvW. They have shown that they do have the capability to split skills and this is a skill that should have a split and the wvw version needs an icd. And all the skills you mentioned for ele are not viable at all in a roaming build anyway. They may be meta for pve ele, but are totally useless for roaming. This is why we need separate balance for wvw and pve. Stuff that is overpowered in wvw and ruins the mode for everyone seems perfectly fine in pve. And god forbid they disrupt the meta in pve! So wvw just has to suffer with ridiculously overpowered garbage that deserves to be nerfed, just for the sake of pve.

I don’t know why they continue to think that wvw and pve can function on the same balance system. fighting other players is clearly different from fighting mindless AI. Mesmer is probably the one of the highest dps roaming builds right now, but i know theyre crap dps in pve. Ele is the opposite, high dps in pve, but thats not viable in wvw so we have one of the lowest dps roaming builds out there. There’s tons of discrepancies like that with every class. WvW and PvE can’t use the same builds and same skills, so it should not be balanced the same way.

Guizao.4167:

Poelala.2830:

Burning Precision: cooldown reduced to 4. (this will add synergy because most skills while tuned to fire when using Pyromancer’s Training is a multiple of 4).
Conjurer: Removed and replaced with the signet trait that gave fire aura.
Sunspot: Applies burn
One with fire: Increases the duration of might by 20%
Blinding Ashes: Cooldown reduced to 6 seconds

I like the one in bold but the conjurer change…well then which traitline will “buff” conjures? I know they’re not that good but we need a trait for conjures anyways.

How about :
Conjurer : Conjure weapon no longer summon a 2nd weapon. CD reduced by 50%. Grant fire aura when you summon a conjure weapon.

This should adapt conjure to PvP.

Jski.6180:

3 of the 2 that your applying? Get over your self ele not even close to the condi out put of a necro. And to ask for things to put on the same level is a reasonable request its called balancing not “well i like this class more then others so its allowed to be stronger” there is an give and take.

Condi necro under ideal circumstances does ~32k dps. Burn ele does ~34k without relying so heavily on whirling into specific (low-priority) fields.

By the way, about 6 months ago we briefly had a no-ICD proc on ele. You might recall the “shared ICD” on Glyph of Elemental Power. Basically eles could overwrite each other’s ICD on a specific enemy, effectively making the skill with no ICD as long as you had at least 2 eles around. It was so broken it prompted a hotfix. So yeah, keep dreaming.

Nikkinella.8254:

Dude, you’re talking about pve. I’m speaking from a purely wvw perspective.

That’s the problem with these topics and that’s why they should be tagged with the specific game mode the OP means. Because in PvE? None of the discussion is relevant or even valid.

Blinding ashesper target ICD and 6sec. Burnign precision 3 sec ICD.
And yeson swap 3sec burn instead of damage would be nice too.
And if not per signet then one with fire might give fire aura on healing skill used.

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

3 of the 2 that your applying? Get over your self ele not even close to the condi out put of a necro. And to ask for things to put on the same level is a reasonable request its called balancing not “well i like this class more then others so its allowed to be stronger” there is an give and take.

Condi necro under ideal circumstances does ~32k dps. Burn ele does ~34k without relying so heavily on whirling into specific (low-priority) fields.

By the way, about 6 months ago we briefly had a no-ICD proc on ele. You might recall the “shared ICD” on Glyph of Elemental Power. Basically eles could overwrite each other’s ICD on a specific enemy, effectively making the skill with no ICD as long as you had at least 2 eles around. It was so broken it prompted a hotfix. So yeah, keep dreaming.

Nikkinella.8254:

Dude, you’re talking about pve. I’m speaking from a purely wvw perspective.

That’s the problem with these topics and that’s why they should be tagged with the specific game mode the OP means. Because in PvE? None of the discussion is relevant or even valid.

Most of the time ppl are talking about wvw or spvp. Icd are more about applying to mass targets then a single target over and over. Something you realty do not see in pve any more.
So icd for all the on hit skills of ele needs to be per “person” so a real player (talking wvw and spvp most ppl would call it mobs if they where talking about pve) that and they need to add an icd to other effects like dc to have an icd per person too.

The balancing in pve is not important its only important in raids but a very small population even plays that.

Burning precision: 33% chance on crit chance, I wouldn’t call that precision. More like burning luck. Or “hit and pray that burns”. Though it’s ok in pve, it’s too random in spvp to be meaningful. There are more realiable ways to apply burning on a specific target at a specific moment.

33% on crit chance where you have a crit chance of say 50% makes it perfectly predictable, 1 in every 6 hits or so. If you have too much on demand spells then all you get is huge damage spikes everywhere and people getting killed in seconds, that’s why its on chance – it helps normalizes the damage.

I do agree with the concept, that’s just the term “precision” that irks me. 1/6 is like rolling a dice.

Its that Icd that messes it up. If it was per person not per activation then the skill would be ok and much more usable for a aoe class like ele.

ITT: People want to gut a trait with an icd instead of doing the logical thing and just applying the completely fine PVP version in WvW. Ironic because we as Eles should know how terrible icd’s can be as a balancing tool.

Catastro.8410:

ITT: People want to gut a trait with an icd instead of doing the logical thing and just applying the completely fine PVP version in WvW. Ironic because we as Eles should know how terrible icd’s can be as a balancing tool.

NO!
Most ppl want icd to be fixed to be per person so you can spread out the effect to every one but not be able to stack the same effect on one person 20 ish times with in one of 2 skills.

Feanor.2358:

Catastro.8410:

Feanor.2358:

Competitive to what? The line is already competitive.

This is mainly for PvP, the Fire line is pretty terrible in that mode.

Then put a [PvP] tag in the title. Because the line is pretty great in PvE.

Didn’t the word “competitive” tip you off on that? PvE as a whole is not competitive in any way.

I was gonna make a thread about fire spec as well but as you got here before me, that would be a bit redundant so I’ll just give this my 2 cents.

Poelala.2830:

Burning Precision: cooldown reduced to 4. (this will add synergy because most skills while tuned to fire when using Pyromancer’s Training is a multiple of 4).
Conjurer: Removed and replaced with the signet trait that gave fire aura.
Sunspot: Applies burn
One with fire: Increases the duration of might by 20%
Blinding Ashes: Cooldown reduced to 6 seconds

I don’t think these changes hit your goal. My suggestions:
1. Burning Precision: Internal Cooldown reduced to 2 seconds. ICD is now per unique target.
2. Sunspot: No longer deals damage. The fire aura is now shared with nearby allies, range increased to 240. Has beautiful synergy with Tempest.
-This makes changes to One With Fire by synergy, as it now has the potential to give you 10 Might at a time when attuning to fire. You could even double that up with “Feel the Burn!”. (in fact, you can do that with the shout even now)
3. Blinding Ashes: Duration and ICD are reduced by 2 seconds, now 2 and 6 seconds respectively. ICD is now per unique target.

Changing the Conjurer trait into another spec will just screw over that spec, so I don’t think swapping its place will do anything other than move the problem elsewhere. So it has to be somewhere, why not in Fire? Moving it is simply not constructive or useful.

And honestly, I think people overestimate Fire’s Embrace. It doesn’t really strike me as something I would want in my build. Fire Aura on signets would be nice but honestly most signets aren’t very useful in the first place.

Yannir.4132:

Feanor.2358:

Catastro.8410:

Feanor.2358:

Competitive to what? The line is already competitive.

This is mainly for PvP, the Fire line is pretty terrible in that mode.

Then put a [PvP] tag in the title. Because the line is pretty great in PvE.

Didn’t the word “competitive” tip you off on that? PvE as a whole is not competitive in any way.

I was gonna make a thread about fire spec as well but as you got here before me, that would be a bit redundant so I’ll just give this my 2 cents.

Poelala.2830:

Burning Precision: cooldown reduced to 4. (this will add synergy because most skills while tuned to fire when using Pyromancer’s Training is a multiple of 4).
Conjurer: Removed and replaced with the signet trait that gave fire aura.
Sunspot: Applies burn
One with fire: Increases the duration of might by 20%
Blinding Ashes: Cooldown reduced to 6 seconds

I don’t think these changes hit your goal. My suggestions:
1. Burning Precision: Internal Cooldown reduced to 2 seconds. ICD is now per unique target.
2. Sunspot: No longer deals damage. The fire aura is now shared with nearby allies, range increased to 240. Has beautiful synergy with Tempest.
-This makes changes to One With Fire by synergy, as it now has the potential to give you 10 Might at a time when attuning to fire. You could even double that up with “Feel the Burn!”. (in fact, you can do that with the shout even now)
3. Blinding Ashes: Duration and ICD are reduced by 2 seconds, now 2 and 6 seconds respectively. ICD is now per unique target.

Changing the Conjurer trait into another spec will just screw over that spec, so I don’t think swapping its place will do anything other than move the problem elsewhere. So it has to be somewhere, why not in Fire? Moving it is simply not constructive or useful.

And honestly, I think people overestimate Fire’s Embrace. It doesn’t really strike me as something I would want in my build. Fire Aura on signets would be nice but honestly most signets aren’t very useful in the first place.

The only signet that is mostly useless is Signet of Water. All other 4 are strong if used correctly. SoR being the strongest, Air being second and the other two being interchangeable in their usefulness. Adding Fire’s Embrace will simply cover the weakspots that signets have over cantrips, the lack of cleanses.

Poelala.2830:

The only signet that is mostly useless is Signet of Water. All other 4 are strong if used correctly. SoR being the strongest, Air being second and the other two being interchangeable in their usefulness. Adding Fire’s Embrace will simply cover the weakspots that signets have over cantrips, the lack of cleanses.

Yet cantrips themselves are inferior to shouts. The place for cantrips is mostly in builds that don’t utilize Tempest(aside from Lightning Flash). Fire’s Embrace would not cater to the same builds as to make it work as a cleanse, you need Tempest.

I can see your point but I just think signets should have their own niche instead of trying to copy what another utility does.

Yannir.4132:

Poelala.2830:

The only signet that is mostly useless is Signet of Water. All other 4 are strong if used correctly. SoR being the strongest, Air being second and the other two being interchangeable in their usefulness. Adding Fire’s Embrace will simply cover the weakspots that signets have over cantrips, the lack of cleanses.

Yet cantrips themselves are inferior to shouts. The place for cantrips is mostly in builds that don’t utilize Tempest(aside from Lightning Flash). Fire’s Embrace would not cater to the same builds as to make it work as a cleanse, you need Tempest.

I can see your point but I just think signets should have their own niche instead of trying to copy what another utility does.

There are a lot of utility on ele that are worthless they are used but just because there is nothing better. Ele has the least viable utility of all the class. Lot to do with the core ele never getting a real update for HoT.

Even if you don’t care about PvE, it’s a bad idea to basically say screw PvE balance. Skill splits also only affect numbers not functionality. Easy solution to this, don’t touch the top row: it’s always been used in PvE. My suggestions for WvW/PvP fire changes:

One with fire: Grant might and clear one condition when you apply fire aura.
Blinding ashes: when you apply fire aura, blind foes around you.

If you look at the meta earth/water/tempest build, fire could replace earth. Auto cleansing flame proc instead shorter cd on focus earth 4/5. Clear condi on swapping to fire/fire aura instead of diamond skin. Blind to prevent damage instead of protection to reduce it. Enemies take 10% more damage instead of you taking 10% less. More might in general from fire aura and one with fire. You could also possibly consider swapping cleansing water to powerful aura instead: while shouts as a baseline become weaker condi clear, “Feel the burn” has bonus condi clear from one with fire. Swapping to fire/leap finishers in fire fields also has baseline condi clear in an aoe with that swap. These changes won’t make fire meta for the bunker but it’s a “viable option”.

More importantly, I think it’ll give glassier builds viability. Air/earth/arcane fresh air for example, is an ok base ele build but could use a bit of a buff. Again, earth would be replaced with fire. Gives glassier builds some much needed condition clear and blind for defense while upping the offense. Maybe even go nuts with a fire/arcane/tempest which constantly swaps to fire for selfish healing and condi clear.

Leap finishers in fire fields = fire aura. The leaked sword may have leap finishers. Conjurer gives fire aura… Conjure flame axe 5 is a leap finisher too…. Again, probably won’t be meta and some conjures could use a buff but I think those 2 changes would add some fun build diversity potential.

We need an option to replace water. Earth is mitigation so you stand those important seconds longer and use fire to do more damage with a few blinds as help. Condi removal in fire might help to drop water. You mentined the fire/arcane/tempest which is one of the versions that should be fun to play. A single clear linked to fire aura is not enough. Leap finishers and conjures are not a good way to link defence on it.

One with fire:

Gain fire aura on healing skill.
+33% fire aura uptime
Remove a condition on aplying fire aura.

i’ve played full glass staff zerker in spvp since beta and up until recently i’ve considered it really potent.
the change to metoershow though has absolutely decimated it, if any minions, pets, healing turrets or anything else that isn’t a player gets hit then the damage is screwed…

seriously Anet, if raid bosses with huge hitboxes are an issue SPLIT THE SKILL FOR PVE.

Liewec.2896:

i’ve played full glass staff zerker in spvp since beta and up until recently i’ve considered it really potent.
the change to metoershow though has absolutely decimated it, if any minions, pets, healing turrets or anything else that isn’t a player gets hit then the damage is screwed…

seriously Anet, if raid bosses with huge hitboxes are an issue SPLIT THE SKILL FOR PVE.

Playing the same build as you, I agree with you about MS and how it impact on the build. A skill split would have been way preferable for the game balance.

MS used to be a well balanced risk/reward skill vs other players. Now, not s much.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

MS used to be a well balanced risk/reward skill vs other players. Now, not s much.

It used to be well balanced in PvE as well.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Liewec.2896:

i’ve played full glass staff zerker in spvp since beta and up until recently i’ve considered it really potent.
the change to metoershow though has absolutely decimated it, if any minions, pets, healing turrets or anything else that isn’t a player gets hit then the damage is screwed…

seriously Anet, if raid bosses with huge hitboxes are an issue SPLIT THE SKILL FOR PVE.

Playing the same build as you, I agree with you about MS and how it impact on the build. A skill split would have been way preferable for the game balance.

MS used to be a well balanced risk/reward skill vs other players. Now, not s much.

They had to nerf MS because air overload was doing too much dmg ontop of getting to hit large mob modlies. Core ele is always getting nerf because of its elite spec that where given effects out side of there specialization.

Jski.6180:

Catastro.8410:

ITT: People want to gut a trait with an icd instead of doing the logical thing and just applying the completely fine PVP version in WvW. Ironic because we as Eles should know how terrible icd’s can be as a balancing tool.

NO!
Most ppl want icd to be fixed to be per person so you can spread out the effect to every one but not be able to stack the same effect on one person 20 ish times with in one of 2 skills.

He was talking about Deathly Chill.

Vitali.5039:

Jski.6180:

Catastro.8410:

ITT: People want to gut a trait with an icd instead of doing the logical thing and just applying the completely fine PVP version in WvW. Ironic because we as Eles should know how terrible icd’s can be as a balancing tool.

NO!
Most ppl want icd to be fixed to be per person so you can spread out the effect to every one but not be able to stack the same effect on one person 20 ish times with in one of 2 skills.

He was talking about Deathly Chill.

I get that deathly chill is way to powerful as is vs human players that why its so weak in spvp and strong in pve. Wvw where its broken because you can apply the effect to the same person over and over with out an icd effect.

The rule is if its not like it is in spvp for wvw it tends to be an broken effect. Humans are simply different then mobs and wvw is mostly fighting humans.

Jski.6180:

Vitali.5039:

Jski.6180:

Catastro.8410:

ITT: People want to gut a trait with an icd instead of doing the logical thing and just applying the completely fine PVP version in WvW. Ironic because we as Eles should know how terrible icd’s can be as a balancing tool.

NO!
Most ppl want icd to be fixed to be per person so you can spread out the effect to every one but not be able to stack the same effect on one person 20 ish times with in one of 2 skills.

He was talking about Deathly Chill.

I get that deathly chill is way to powerful as is vs human players that why its so weak in spvp and strong in pve. Wvw where its broken because you can apply the effect to the same person over and over with out an icd effect.

The rule is if its not like it is in spvp for wvw it tends to be an broken effect. Humans are simply different then mobs and wvw is mostly fighting humans.

So you were not talking about Blinding Ashes..

Well, I don’t think that an ICD per person for Deathly Chill will make it useful at all:
Soul Spiral have 3s sec duration and count as 6 Whirl finishers, giving it an ICD will make it crap. You have to burst down someone, you should use condition because you don’t run power, you cast the 5-4 shroud combo and.. someone give you quickness.
Well, you can only stack 3 bleed per target.
Without Quickness 9 stack, but only if the target is AFK and eat all the chilling bolt from the finisher.

As you have said, we only have to hope they’ll split WvW balance from PvE..

Vitali.5039:

Jski.6180:

Vitali.5039:

Jski.6180:

Catastro.8410:

ITT: People want to gut a trait with an icd instead of doing the logical thing and just applying the completely fine PVP version in WvW. Ironic because we as Eles should know how terrible icd’s can be as a balancing tool.

NO!
Most ppl want icd to be fixed to be per person so you can spread out the effect to every one but not be able to stack the same effect on one person 20 ish times with in one of 2 skills.

He was talking about Deathly Chill.

I get that deathly chill is way to powerful as is vs human players that why its so weak in spvp and strong in pve. Wvw where its broken because you can apply the effect to the same person over and over with out an icd effect.

The rule is if its not like it is in spvp for wvw it tends to be an broken effect. Humans are simply different then mobs and wvw is mostly fighting humans.

So you were not talking about Blinding Ashes..

Well, I don’t think that an ICD per person for Deathly Chill will make it useful at all:
Soul Spiral have 3s sec duration and count as 6 Whirl finishers, giving it an ICD will make it crap. You have to burst down someone, you should use condition because you don’t run power, you cast the 5-4 shroud combo and.. someone give you quickness.
Well, you can only stack 3 bleed per target.
Without Quickness 9 stack, but only if the target is AFK and eat all the chilling bolt from the finisher.

As you have said, we only have to hope they’ll split WvW balance from PvE..

Talking about all icd effects and all on condi effect. I think effects like chilling death and blinding ash need to have icd that work like glyph of elemental power. An icd per person not per activation. This lets you hit every one or more then just one person at the same time it keeps you from landing the same effect over and over with in less then a sec. The only icd effects that should be per activation are the sigils simply because they are so much stronger OR effects that are already build in aoe on trigger so the aoe chill blast on crit.