Guild Wars 2

Glyphs should at least be reworked. The concept of having attunement based effects on the utility spells is great, however most of them are quite insignificant. The heal is boring, summons are trash, condition based on attunement every 5 seconds should either have a shorter and stronger window rather than 30 seconds of meh and I’ve personally never used a single revive spell. The trait is also pretty weak and misplaced, since glyphs are kinda condition based, while the glyph trait is in air.

Another thing is summoned weapons. It’s not really a good idea to base an entire build to summoned weapons, since you’ll loose utility because of the attunement. Keeping the weapons, but making the summoning time shorter and not locking them to attunement would be a good idea, since it does not limit the elementalist. Also, having charges and a time limit is just a stressfull element. Remove one or another.

Greasepalm.7628:

Glyphs should at least be reworked. The concept of having attunement based effects on the utility spells is great, however most of them are quite insignificant. The heal is boring, summons are trash, condition based on attunement every 5 seconds should either have a shorter and stronger window rather than 30 seconds of meh and I’ve personally never used a single revive spell. The trait is also pretty weak and misplaced, since glyphs are kinda condition based, while the glyph trait is in air.

Another thing is summoned weapons. It’s not really a good idea to base an entire build to summoned weapons, since you’ll loose utility because of the attunement. Keeping the weapons, but making the summoning time shorter and not locking them to attunement would be a good idea, since it does not limit the elementalist. Also, having charges and a time limit is just a stressfull element. Remove one or another.

FYI, healing glyph is the strongest self-heal available, with a very short cooldown, especially if traited. Traiting also enables you to use it for either perma-swiftness (20s of swiftness on 16s cooldown), on-demand might or protection. Regen I’d say is pretty weak, but that’s the issue of the boon rather than the glyph itself.

Further, Glyph of Storms is the most ridiculously useful skill the class has. Lightning Storm has great damage and vuln applications, while Sandstorm is simply OP against large mobs of non-champion enemies. Firestorm is usable even in power builds, mainly to avoid switching attunements which can result in a dps loss. Think of staff. The damage is decent, if not quite on par with its lightning equivalent. Icestorm is situational, but pretty great when you need to use it (e.g. wargs in Escort).

Glyph of Elemental Power is pretty strong in fire, assuming condi build, and pretty weak otherwise. The main problem is it only offers a single damaging condition, so you’ll always want to pick that.

Elemental summons are just boring, and Glyph of Renewal is way too situational, plus your party members shouldn’t get downed in the first place.

All in all though, I strongly disagree with your assessment of the glyphs. Yeah, there are some meh ones. But there are also two fantastic ones and the mechanic is great.

Conjured weapons do not lock you into attunement, you can still switch attunements and get the related effects while wielding one. Also I don’t think they were ever meant to be a focus of the build. They are really good at filling gaps, which makes me think that was their design goal.

I like to see them look at arcain skills and the GM Elemental Surge.
Having 100% crit on arcain skills seems like a complete waist for a strong effect on these dmg skills. So adding something like unblockable effect on arcain and remove the 100% crit would make arcain over all better set of skills. Arcain power would be a 5 sec all attks are arcain so unblockable and effected by elemental surge.
As for elemental surge it needs to be a full soft cc effect so burning on fire needs to be changes to slow on fire and the added effect of getting crit dmg after arcain use needs to be changed to a blunt dmg +% for a few sec.

As for glyphs added in self or aoe Alacrity.

No redesign to ele. Elite specs must be thematic. Elite specs cant cover all lacking weapons to have full access. That is why update to core tyria Add to core most demaned or problematic to make e specs weapons.

Jski.6180:

As for elemental surge it needs to be a full soft cc effect so burning on fire needs to be changes to slow on fire and the added effect of getting crit dmg after arcain use needs to be changed to a blunt dmg +% for a few sec.

As for glyphs added in self or aoe Alacrity.

First off, nobody cares about soft cc most of the time. Damaging effects are much more valuable and when you actually need soft cc, you’re better off using weapon/utility skills rather than relying on a proc.

Next, slow makes absolutely no sense thematically on Fire. On Water or Earth, sure, why not. But it Fire? It’s just a strapped-on effect, chosen to be different and having zero connection with what it’s been strapped onto.

Same goes for Alacrity on Glyphs. Honestly, it would be just as kittentrapping it on to Ventari, except unlike Ventari Glyph of Storms is a must-have in pretty much every sensible ele build.

Every weapon can go with elite spec and be thematic.

Redesing of some skills/traits to add fresh in core, but no redesing for whole class. Add weapons to core, maybe.

Hexes: not affected by condi/experites and other decreases/increases/cleanses.
First hex introduced to players to use is agony. Dont scale with condi and don’t increase lenght etc. Stable effect, with stable time.
First introduced, but not usable is mortality – prevent healing from all sources.

Arcane, Arcanes of magic, instead arc surge it could apply agony and mortality in order. First usage of arcane agony, second mortality and repeat. No chance but order.

Arcanes no need to apply condi based on attun, so everything can go.

In desert earth keep crucibles grant prot and stab at once – effect of armor of earth.

Slow and weakeness applied at one could give effect of exhaust.

They should go back to GW1 ele.

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

As for elemental surge it needs to be a full soft cc effect so burning on fire needs to be changes to slow on fire and the added effect of getting crit dmg after arcain use needs to be changed to a blunt dmg +% for a few sec.

As for glyphs added in self or aoe Alacrity.

First off, nobody cares about soft cc most of the time. Damaging effects are much more valuable and when you actually need soft cc, you’re better off using weapon/utility skills rather than relying on a proc.

Next, slow makes absolutely no sense thematically on Fire. On Water or Earth, sure, why not. But it Fire? It’s just a strapped-on effect, chosen to be different and having zero connection with what it’s been strapped onto.

Same goes for Alacrity on Glyphs. Honestly, it would be just as kittentrapping it on to Ventari, except unlike Ventari Glyph of Storms is a must-have in pretty much every sensible ele build.

Soft cc are the most important effect in gw2 ele is one of the better classes for these aoe soft cc. Ele hard cc is very “you cant go there or be stun” out side of the fast ish intruded. Ele has chill cripple root weakness blind variably it needs slow and over all should do soft cc better because it lacks the ability to do condi dmg and never will because of the way atuments work.

There you go your own argument makes it a viable thing for these effect to be on ele. It may not comply fit but it world make ele better much like ventari. This game is past making logic the elite spec put an end to that some time ago.
If you want something to make it feel right beyond saying “it magic get over it”:

Arcain is pure magic and able to move freely any where in a world of magic. So shields and armor should not effect it even magic version of these shields should not effect it. There by it should be unblockable not a 100% crit chase.

Fire makes the air hotter making it harder to act there by slowing you down as in using your ability. In a way your exhausted someone making it harder to get there magic out of there body and or channel it from the world.

The glpyhes are magic sines making you as a caster calling great magic beyond just the simple use of use. Your pulling more power into your spells and concentrating on the atument your in. So you should be better at casting spells after you used a glpyhe. As there is no mana for the most part and no magic becomes stronger effect out side of gen. boons (might fury etc.. no differences between phial and magic) Alacrity is the pure magic buff that lets you cast more spells and use magic sooner.

Added note slow on a lot of classes now for a lot of reason putting it on ele would fit.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slow

Another idea. Give ele similar shape-shifting like necromancer (Death shroud/Reaper shroud) and ranger (Celestial Avatar).
This could be called Elemental Form.
Maybe allow 4 different type of forms based on attunement: Fire form (AEO dps), Earth (Tanky), Air (Single target Dps/Support) and Water (Healer/cc).

Jski.6180:

Soft cc are the most important effect in gw2

Nope. The most important effect is outgoing damage. Soft CC is without doubt an important aspect of the game, however, unlike damage, it is very situational. There are places where it is useful and there are others where it is simply irrelevant. Generally, in the open world it goes like this: Lightning Orb → Overload Air → “Feel the burn!”, everything’s dead. Why would I waste time on soft cc?

Not only that, but proc-based effects like Arcane Precision and Glyph of Elemental Power can’t be precisely controlled. Meaning if you use them for their soft CC it can easily get wasted on a target where you don’t need it. Whereas a damage proc is always relevant (see Superior Sigil of Air for instance). Because of all this, said procs are valuable and used for their damage procs, not for their soft CC ones. Remove the damage procs and nobody will touch them anymore because they’ll be garbage.

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

Soft cc are the most important effect in gw2

Nope. The most important effect is outgoing damage. Soft CC is without doubt an important aspect of the game, however, unlike damage, it is very situational. There are places where it is useful and there are others where it is simply irrelevant. Generally, in the open world it goes like this: Lightning Orb -> Overload Air -> “Feel the burn!”, everything’s dead. Why would I waste time on soft cc?

Not only that, but proc-based effects like Arcane Precision and Glyph of Elemental Power can’t be precisely controlled. Meaning if you use them for their soft CC it can easily get wasted on a target where you don’t need it. Whereas a damage proc is always relevant (see Superior Sigil of Air for instance). Because of all this, said procs are valuable and used for their damage procs, not for their soft CC ones. Remove the damage procs and nobody will touch them anymore because they’ll be garbage.

In an active dodge game soft cc is every thing because it deal with the one hard counter to every effect the active dodge.
Ele condi dmg is weak and will always be weak due to the atumen swapping of the ele class.
Glyph of Elemental Power IS controllable because the icd is per person not per activation where Arcane Precision (a more condi dmg base skill because reasons) icd is per activation of the effect or uncontrollable.

So the way ele works as a class is aoe aimed any thing that dose not work with AoE such as having an icd per activation or a set number of hits before its used up becomes counter productive and in a way punishing for ele to use. This is an major underling problem with ele as a class (and why i think arcain power needs to be changed badly because 5 charges often is just one hit). By having aoe you cant effectively chose who getting hit by your effects and often push many of your most powerful effects on cd with out having a chose. In a way the aoe “ness” of ele skills IS hold ele as a class back due to bad game destine chose that they made with the ele class.

So by changing arcain into more of an unblockable effect (fixing arcain power to a duration like every other “your attks are unblockables for x sec”) would let the ele class get away from these major aoe icd problems to a point. The fact that most of ele effects do not work on aoe and all of there attks are aoe should be causing major rages in the ele community but often your getting way too many apologist ppl that simply are in the way to making ele a viable class.

Look ele can do 2 things effectively atm power dmg and healing. Ele will never be a condi monster like the other classes even gurds can out burn ele (atuments realty are a major block here and the long cd / cast time of effects stop the burst). That leave power dmg the only real dmg type for ele and giving it 100% crit effects when it already has fury most of the time is a waist of every ones time that and unblockable power dmg is key to being a real dmg dealing class.

As for healing / support ele can use auras healing that has fallen behind other classes due to nerfs to ele and buffs to other classes. At the same time ele lacks any major boon (protection and fury are given out by all classes and runes) out side of self stab and the aoe 2 sec 1 stack stab (the ONLY aoe stab ele has….) vs classes who have near to if not higher healing out put AND these boons. Ele become more and more pointless in groups.

Simply put: Ele is a pure power dmg class but it lacks any real power dmg classe effects and the ele class is losing its ability to heal effectively vs other class. Over all ele IS the GW2 trash class. (Back in the day of ff11 there was a joke lolxclass for classes that where super weak at the time lolpup was the major one ele name should be lolele because ITS the WORST class in gw2.)

You’re talking about PvP, which I don’t care about. In PvE soft CC is situational, like I said. Monsters, as a rule of thumb, don’t dodge. Some occasionally do, but this can simply be ignored, as you’ll most likely lose more dps by using soft cc than using skills actively to counter their dodges. Same goes for blocks btw. AoE blinds and chills have their uses, but most of the time they simply aren’t needed.

Turning Arcane into unblockable/soft cc line will forever make it a PvP-only line. Like it is now, it can be used in PvE. Even if it is suboptimal, it has some nice damage buffs and synergies.

Feanor.2358:

You’re talking about PvP, which I don’t care about. In PvE soft CC is situational, like I said. Monsters, as a rule of thumb, don’t dodge. Some occasionally do, but this can simply be ignored, as you’ll most likely lose more dps by using soft cc than using skills actively to counter their dodges. Same goes for blocks btw. AoE blinds and chills have their uses, but most of the time they simply aren’t needed.

Turning Arcane into unblockable/soft cc line will forever make it a PvP-only line. Like it is now, it can be used in PvE. Even if it is suboptimal, it has some nice damage buffs and synergies.

Not talking about spvp at all i am talking about wvw. There a big differences spvp is its own thing and balancing there is messed up due to the game types.

Why not just make GW2 into a stander gear score mmorpg and remove dodges added in passive ones? If mobs are so mindless what the point of having all these tools that you cant use. This game is made for wvw and spvp pve always been more of an after though as in open world raids are the only first shot as true pve and it plays like stander mmorpg combat so it comes off as not fitting in gw2. As anet keeps forcing this balancing to most of the time for a super small part that realy not going to fit its going to mess things up more and more and has for the ele class.

Arcain GM Elemental Surge is already a cc aimed tool it just happens to have burning on fire that it and it dose not fit. Arcain being a 100% crit dose not fit for the ele class and by making it unblockable it helps ele vs mobs who do block and it lets things like arcain power have a real use with aoe effects.

I disagree. PvE has most of the players and the game is built around it. Yes, it was built knowing there will be PvP aspects – hence the skills/traits that give reveal, unblockable, etc. – but it is still primarily a PvE game.

So while I understand your point of giving certain tools to the profession, it simply won’t happen the way you want it. Because you cannot disregard PvE when trying to design changes. Even though Arcane is underused in PvE, it won’t get shoved out of it completely. Frankly, it is already bad enough Water and Earth are mostly PvP/WvW lines.

Feanor.2358:

I disagree. PvE has most of the players and the game is built around it. Yes, it was built knowing there will be PvP aspects – hence the skills/traits that give reveal, unblockable, etc. – but it is still primarily a PvE game.

So while I understand your point of giving certain tools to the profession, it simply won’t happen the way you want it. Because you cannot disregard PvE when trying to design changes. Even though Arcane is underused in PvE, it won’t get shoved out of it completely. Frankly, it is already bad enough Water and Earth are mostly PvP/WvW lines.

Your mixing up pve open world and pve raid or know as pve as gw2 and pve as stander mmorpg. Open world or gw2 pve has a high population because of mega worlds and how easy it is to join in. Raids or stander mmorpgs pve are much much smaller due to how much harder and number limitation. That and raids have a number of times you can do it per week so its always going to be a much smaller part of gw2 over all.

Unblockable and getting away from crit dmg for arcain will help out over all in the open world pve and will help to some level in raids pve due to other effects in the game and needing crit dmg ontop of power to make it worth it. This is why i suggest changing the GM from crit dmg to just simple dmg +%. By making it unblockable you can land your skills for sure vs mobs who will block or the cc that maybe needed to stun a mob or even to root them to help your team kite. Things like slow are super helpfully for ppl to land there well timed inturpese and it also drains defines bars.

Most skills and weapons are not use at all in pve and to brush over them that its ok is saying this game has comply become that one wepon one class game and every one is the same builds/ set up something that is so different from gw2 that it WILL destroy the game.

Jski.6180:

Unblockable and getting away from crit dmg for arcain will help out over all in the open world pve

No, they won’t. In open world you don’t need anything beside raw damage, except if you’re being a special snowflake who likes do solo group events for instance. That’s a small minority of the players.

In raids you need to be efficient, so as a damage dealer you have no use of picking defensive traits. All the defense you need should be supplied by your support characters, your job is to deal as much damage as possible.

Jski.6180:

Most skills and weapons are not use at all in pve and to brush over them that its ok is saying this game has comply become that one wepon one class game and every one is the same builds/ set up something that is so different from gw2 that it WILL destroy the game.

Currently, ele in PvE uses Staff, Dagger, Scepter, and Warhorn. The unused weapons are both offhands, Focus and Dagger. Both aren’t used for the same reason – they don’t have the offensive capabilities of the Warhorn.

Note that ele can in theory be an excellent healer. Which gives more build diversity than just picking a needlessly defensive weapon. What the ele lacks for this isn’t ways to get unblockable or whatnot, it’s group buffs. Druid will always be the healer of the group as long as nobody else can match Spotter + GotL + spirits. Again, it’s all about the damage. Many classes can heal, but only druid boosts the party dps this much while healing.

Also note that we can give stuff like perma prot and vigor instead. And they have essentially zero value in PvE context. Note how different this is in PvP/WvW.

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

Unblockable and getting away from crit dmg for arcain will help out over all in the open world pve

No, they won’t. In open world you don’t need anything beside raw damage, except if you’re being a special snowflake who likes do solo group events for instance. That’s a small minority of the players.

In raids you need to be efficient, so as a damage dealer you have no use of picking defensive traits. All the defense you need should be supplied by your support characters, your job is to deal as much damage as possible.

Jski.6180:

Most skills and weapons are not use at all in pve and to brush over them that its ok is saying this game has comply become that one wepon one class game and every one is the same builds/ set up something that is so different from gw2 that it WILL destroy the game.

Currently, ele in PvE uses Staff, Dagger, Scepter, and Warhorn. The unused weapons are both offhands, Focus and Dagger. Both aren’t used for the same reason – they don’t have the offensive capabilities of the Warhorn.

Note that ele can in theory be an excellent healer. Which gives more build diversity than just picking a needlessly defensive weapon. What the ele lacks for this isn’t ways to get unblockable or whatnot, it’s group buffs. Druid will always be the healer of the group as long as nobody else can match Spotter + GotL + spirits. Again, it’s all about the damage. Many classes can heal, but only druid boosts the party dps this much while healing.

Also note that we can give stuff like perma prot and vigor instead. And they have essentially zero value in PvE context. Note how different this is in PvP/WvW.

So because of raids unblockables should not be part of the balancing? Your giving a lot of skills who are unblockable a free pass because they are in pve and your giving a lot of skills that are blockable and slow (something that can only hit bad ais) as being super powerful. I want to say your views are only of worth vs things dumber then rocks. By that same ideal boon strips are not worth any thing because they are weak in pve.

In that same ideal a lot of skills in gw2 are worthless because they do not work well vs mobs. That and we can ask why not make air give confusion and why not make water give torment the other condis are not coving for any thing on mobs because mobs do not remove condis.

You just cant balance off of that and gw2 IS that type of game where you need to have pvp in mind at all times. If it dose not work in pvp (wvw) then it needs to be deleted.

Look i hate to edit this too much but i realty need to put this in there: A lot of classes have a lot of effects on there skills from boon strips unblockable and yes they may not be the best effects in the game for pve but that not what they are made for they are made for pvp as are all other skills in this game there just some that happen to be better then others at different times. If you truly believe that pvp is not part of the balancing and not part of “how would you redesign ele” (because from your post you seem to think ele is ok as is and that the end of it) then adding unblockable and even other effects to skills should not effects the balancing and it should be added in. So lets make arcain 100% crit and unbloclable lets make the GM arcain effects apply condi dmg and a soft cc. Is that what you want?

No, because of PvE in general they shouldn’t be a focus. It’s fine to design options like this, it’s not fine to dedicate a whole trait line to it.

Feanor.2358:

No, because of PvE in general they shouldn’t be a focus. It’s fine to design options like this, it’s not fine to dedicate a whole trait line to it.

What? The ideal is to make arcain skills harder to mitigated and to make the GM trait more usable then just cirt dmg builds every thing else is staying the same in the arcain line (i mean it would be nice to see the icd per person with acain persion but that a pure buff not a changes to what it dose).

As for glyph its to make it some what viable for use and to trait into it the master air getting 2 swiftness duration from using a glyph in air is worthless.

And again, being harder to mitigate is irrelevant for PvE. Damage procs aren’t, unlike soft-cc ones. So you’re proposing to trade something of value for something useless. Arcane isn’t great as it is, but your proposal makes it trash in PvE.

And again, glyphs are fine as they are. Glyph of Storms is borderline OP. Glyph of Elemental Power is really strong in burn builds. Which may be sub-optimal but do exist and are playable. By the way, they utilize the already mentioned burn procs from Arcane, so if anything you’d be reducing build diversity in PvE.

The problem with the underused glyphs like Renewal and Elementals is their effects are more or less irrelevant. Getting someone up from downed once every 3 mins, come on. Strapping a band-aid Alacrity on them won’t make them good or used. It will just make the already strong glyphs flat out overpowered.

Feanor.2358:

And again, being harder to mitigate is irrelevant for PvE. Damage procs aren’t, unlike soft-cc ones. So you’re proposing to trade something of value for something useless. Arcane isn’t great as it is, but your proposal makes it trash in PvE.

And again, glyphs are fine as they are. Glyph of Storms is borderline OP. Glyph of Elemental Power is really strong in burn builds. Which may be sub-optimal but do exist and are playable. By the way, they utilize the already mentioned burn procs from Arcane, so if anything you’d be reducing build diversity in PvE.

The problem with the underused glyphs like Renewal and Elementals is their effects are more or less irrelevant. Getting someone up from downed once every 3 mins, come on. Strapping a band-aid Alacrity on them won’t make them good or used. It will just make the already strong glyphs flat out overpowered.

I think you just lost all creditably by saying you think glyph are fine.

All meta PvE builds use Glyph of Storms. If that’s not “fine” I don’t know what is.

Feanor.2358:

All meta PvE builds use Glyph of Storms. If that’s not “fine” I don’t know what is.

PvE is only 1/3 of the game so its only ok in 1/3 of gw2. That and its a there nothing else on ele glyph of storms dose not do high enofe dmg and effects say compared to wells for its cd of 1 min. You could even throw unblockable on glyph of storms and it will still be bad. If frost bow 4 was not nerfed into the ground it would be used well before glyph of storms. So its not the case that its good its the fact that every thing else is bad.

Any way the problem with glyph is its master trait giving a self boon on glyph is nice but that you have to put so much into it just to get boons your already giving off as an aoe on longer duration seems like a complete waist. I mean who realty wants air used glyph to give swiftness it should at least give you fury. Even reg not worth it most of the time. The protection duration is nothing and 1 stack of might is sad. This is why i think it should give the ele something more then what it already has and in a weaker form. Unless you want it to give you quickness stab or resistances i think alacrity fits the mages self boon well.

Mathematically it’s 1/3rd. However, it is by far the most important 1/3rd, because the players there outnumber the ones in the other two modes combined. So at the very least Glyph of Storms if BiS in half the game. Which is good enough. Once again, you’re proposing changes disregarding their effects in PvE. Won’t happen. If you’re concerned about glyphs, don’t try to alter their mechanic as a whole, address the underused ones individually. Glyph of Renewal can be pretty much scrapped like it is now and nobody would care. Or notice.

Feanor.2358:

Mathematically it’s 1/3rd. However, it is by far the most important 1/3rd, because the players there outnumber the ones in the other two modes combined. So at the very least Glyph of Storms if BiS in half the game. Which is good enough. Once again, you’re proposing changes disregarding their effects in PvE. Won’t happen. If you’re concerned about glyphs, don’t try to alter their mechanic as a whole, address the underused ones individually. Glyph of Renewal can be pretty much scrapped like it is now and nobody would care. Or notice.

Relay glyph of renewal is a good heal now for ele its low enofe cd that as a pure self healing effect is the best that ele can run.
I am only suggesting alacrity because glyph are lacking in use if you go to the M trait. You could make the boons aoe but agen your doing the same thing that ele dose with aura atumen swaping cantrip shouts (auras too) and blast finners. So its well conved for the ele class there going to be something new or its just the same build over and over by different means. This is true for pvp and pve.

Also I get back to there a lot of skill that simply do not work in pve such as unblockable and boon removal but they are still in the game stop making this a “it must work in pve and pvp to be a real redesign” and on that point you said nothing to what should be redesigned about ele only what is wrong with other ppl ideals. I don’t want to say it but why are you just going after ppl ideals so hard?

It’s simple really

1 weapon loadout = 4 attunements
2 weapons loadout = 1 attunement

First one allows you to play elementalist as it is now.

Second one allows you to specialize into single element, but you get the weapon swap. Once you’re in combat you get locked into attunement you’re currently in.

Jski.6180:

Relay glyph of renewal is a good heal now for ele its low enofe cd that as a pure self healing effect is the best that ele can run.

That’s Glyph of Elemental Harmony you’re talking about. And it’s good, yeah. Renewal lets you rally downed allies on a 165 sec cooldown, with minor effects depending on your attunement.

Jski.6180:

I am only suggesting alacrity because glyph are lacking in use if you go to the M trait. You could make the boons aoe but agen your doing the same thing that ele dose with aura atumen swaping cantrip shouts (auras too) and blast finners. So its well conved for the ele class there going to be something new or its just the same build over and over by different means. This is true for pvp and pve.

The trait is mostly fine. I like to run it on Staff, because Tempest Defence damage modifier is unreliable (except on KC) and on Staff I really don’t want to spend much time in Air or care about recharges on Air skills. With Warhorn I do, so I pick Aeromancer’s Training instead. Come to think of it, the Master trait choice in Air is one of the best balanced for the class. All 3 are used in different scenarios. Compare to the master fire trait, where you always pick the cd reduction.

Now, suppose you put alacrity on the trait. It makes the strong glyphs even stronger. You take Storms anyway, but now it also gives alac? Sure, more power is always nice. It makes you always take the healing glyph, because no other heal gives alac, and it’s only 16 sec cd so you probably can maintain noticeable amount just by using this one skill. And it makes Inscription the go-to trait in all circumstances, except on KC. Congratulations, you just reduced the build diversity in both Air master traits and heal skills.

Jski.6180:

Also I get back to there a lot of skill that simply do not work in pve such as unblockable and boon removal but they are still in the game stop making this a “it must work in pve and pvp to be a real redesign” and on that point you said nothing to what should be redesigned about ele only what is wrong with other ppl ideals. I don’t want to say it but why are you just going after ppl ideals so hard?

Because their ideas are just wrong. Offering criticism could lead them to rethink their ideas and come up with better ones.

@ Feanor.2358

Your right i mixed them up the heal glyph is good after the cdr from the last balances.

Do you realty think getting 10 sec swiftness or 8 sec reg or 3 sec protection or 1 stack of might is worth a master level trait when you already get this from arcain line?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inscription_
vs
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Attunement

And that gets to my other point ele is doing the same thing over and over regardless of the line its building that why you need something like alacrity to make it worth using if you want to build that way. Getting might swiftness protection and reg about 3 different ways on the ele class and that it these boons over and over. In effect ele has many builds that all do the same thing.

The thing is your not just saying ideal are bad your going out of your way to not suggest any thing new to thoughts ideal there got to be a back and forward to getting new ideals. You cant just criticize and think that will fix every thing. Tell me how would you fix inscription? How would you fix utility that are not used at all or trait lines that are not use?

Traits not used by a lot of ele: Conjurer, Inscription, Aeromancer’s Training, Rock Solid, Elemental Surge, Tempestuous Aria, and Imbued Melodies.
Utility not used by most ele: Arcane Brilliance, Arcane Power, Conjure Earth Shield, Conjure Flame Axe, Glyph of Lesser Elementals, Glyph of Renewal, and Signet of Water.

How would you make these more usable?

Jski.6180:

Do you realty think getting 10 sec swiftness or 8 sec reg or 3 sec protection or 1 stack of might is worth a master level trait when you already get this from arcain line?

No, but the dps increase from cutting down Storms cooldown is worth it. The rest is just a bonus.

Also, you don’t pick Arcane over Air because either Bolt to the Heart or Fresh Air.

Jski.6180:

The thing is your not just saying ideal are bad your going out of your way to not suggest any thing new to thoughts ideal there got to be a back and forward to getting new ideals. You cant just criticize and think that will fix every thing. Tell me how would you fix inscription? How would you fix utility that are not used at all or trait lines that are not use?

Traits not used by a lot of ele: Conjurer, Inscription, Aeromancer’s Training, Rock Solid, Elemental Surge, Tempestuous Aria, and Imbued Melodies.
Utility not used by most ele: Arcane Brilliance, Arcane Power, Conjure Earth Shield, Conjure Flame Axe, Glyph of Lesser Elementals, Glyph of Renewal, and Signet of Water.

How would you make these more usable?

First of all, why do you think you or I are qualified to fix design issues? Are you a game designer?

Next, Inscription, Aeromancer’s Training, and Imbued Melodies are used and need no “fixing”.

“First of all, why do you think you or I are qualified to fix design issues? Are you a game designer?”

Really? Are you that narrow-minded and/or bitter that you need to post this lame reply in a thread that’s about “No limits, go wild with any crazy ideas.
So, just for fun, how would you redesign the elementalist?”

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

Do you realty think getting 10 sec swiftness or 8 sec reg or 3 sec protection or 1 stack of might is worth a master level trait when you already get this from arcain line?

No, but the dps increase from cutting down Storms cooldown is worth it. The rest is just a bonus.

Also, you don’t pick Arcane over Air because either Bolt to the Heart or Fresh Air.

Jski.6180:

The thing is your not just saying ideal are bad your going out of your way to not suggest any thing new to thoughts ideal there got to be a back and forward to getting new ideals. You cant just criticize and think that will fix every thing. Tell me how would you fix inscription? How would you fix utility that are not used at all or trait lines that are not use?

Traits not used by a lot of ele: Conjurer, Inscription, Aeromancer’s Training, Rock Solid, Elemental Surge, Tempestuous Aria, and Imbued Melodies.
Utility not used by most ele: Arcane Brilliance, Arcane Power, Conjure Earth Shield, Conjure Flame Axe, Glyph of Lesser Elementals, Glyph of Renewal, and Signet of Water.

How would you make these more usable?

First of all, why do you think you or I are qualified to fix design issues? Are you a game designer?

Next, Inscription, Aeromancer’s Training, and Imbued Melodies are used and need no “fixing”.

Most ppl do not use these skills and what about the other ones? Just becuse you found 3 that you may see a use for there many more i listed.

Any way i think inscription needs to at least be aoe boon and give fury over swiftness 2 stack of might would be nice too. I like to see it give alacrity for self only or some other major boon stab or quickness etc…

Aeromancer’s Training after the cdr nerf is just not worth it as is any more. I like to see it work with crit effects more. So it no longer gives a blunt cdr but every time you cirt something you get a cdr effect. When your in air the cdr effect is stronger. I think a lot of training effects on ele line need to work on different atuments with different cdr effect but just not as well when your outside of that atument.

Imbued Melodies is never going to get use over auras healing and it seems to fill the same roll of the support so i think it needs to be the dmg chose of the 3. Imbued Melodies needs to give a low aoe duration quickness on wh skills on say a 10 sec icd. Ontop of blunt passive faster cast say 10% much like bezerks faster attks.

What would you rather take over Inscription in a Staff build? It’s free dps increase, except on KC where Tempest Defense is stronger.

Aeromancer’s Training is a must in any Warhorn build. Lightning Orb is just too strong.

And there will always be better and worse traits when you want them to have different effects. There will always be those which work better and those that don’t. And people will always prefer the ones that do.

Arcane elite that resets the cd of all arcane utilities on a 45s timer.
Fresh fire type skill for staff damage to shine. Biggest possible burst is going into air after a meteor for a static to proc a 2nd damage modifier, but you have to avoid doing overload fire, and lose might stacking/mobility. So if we could crit our way back into fire, that’d be sick.
Also, get rid of all these outgoing healing things in the game. I want to heal myself like a boss. Nobody else is frontline with me in WvW. They scurred.
P.S. Someone posted shield as one of the possibilities of new weapons. If we get something crap like that I’m quitting forever.

“Fresh fire” feels too much of a carbon-copy of Fresh Air. I’d rather have Arcane line do what it is supposed to and make frequent attunement switches possible and rewarding. Main problem is it competes with Tempest mechanic and overloads are just too powerful for Arcane to be a viable alternative.

Feanor.2358:

What would you rather take over Inscription in a Staff build? It’s free dps increase, except on KC where Tempest Defense is stronger.

Aeromancer’s Training is a must in any Warhorn build. Lightning Orb is just too strong.

And there will always be better and worse traits when you want them to have different effects. There will always be those which work better and those that don’t. And people will always prefer the ones that do.

Well that the thing you need to give ppl real options right now there are not real options. The ideal of one being dmg aimed one being def aimed and one being support aimed tends to be the best set up.

Any way if Inscription gave you the cdr effect of alacrity for a few sec after use of a glyph i would have a real chose for that staff ele build that i want to see as a viable build.

(Needed to add this metor nerf only destroyed staff in wvw vs siege and pve over all it did not fix the hit box problem that ele has it simply shifted it to the real dmg hix box expiation wepon the WH. And i still do not understand how an specialization of def and support is the best dmg ele can do as a class its just silly. Did they changes the meaning of specialization?)

Jski.6180:

Well that the thing you need to give ppl real options right now there are not real options. The ideal of one being dmg aimed one being def aimed and one being support aimed tends to be the best set up.

We have that actually. Earth is defensively oriented and Water is more support-y. Nobody uses them in PvE, because they hurt your own offensive capabilities too much and they don’t boost your party’s offensive capabilities at all. See Druid for reference about relevant group buffs.

In PvP the situation is different, mainly because the combat wasn’t designed for PvP, the damage numbers are too high making defence and mitigation a necessity. You can’t have a game where you fight enemies with 10-20k health and others with 10-50M health and expect both fights to work equally well. But that’s another story.

Jski.6180:

Any way if Inscription gave you the cdr effect of alacrity for a few sec after use of a glyph i would have a real chose for that staff ele build that i want to see as a viable build.

Soo… take the only sensible choice for a particular build, make it even stronger and that will create a real choice? How, exactly? By the way, the staff build is totally viable. Not the best dps anymore, but still better pick for certain fights.

Jski.6180:

(Needed to add this metor nerf only destroyed staff in wvw vs siege and pve over all it did not fix the hit box problem that ele has it simply shifted it to the real dmg hix box expiation wepon the WH. And i still do not understand how an specialization of def and support is the best dmg ele can do as a class its just silly. Did they changes the meaning of specialization?)

Different performance against different hitbox sizes isn’t necessarily a problem. It just adds to actual choices in a game, like you don’t stick with Staff for all the fights but switch to other weapons when you know you’ll be facing smaller enemy. And there wasn’t any actual problem in the first place. Staff had huge damage potential and staff eles were perceived to be the best damage dealers by a long shot. However, staff needs this damage potential to justify the various requirements you must meet to achieve it. No other weapon roots you in place for 2+ seconds on your most damaging attack. No other weapon is so reliant on the target remaining in your AOEs. The reality is, the vast majority of eles produced pretty low damage numbers in real fights and could easily be outperformed by other classes. And the people would have seen that after the legalisation of the dps meters. As it is now, Staff’s only advantage remains the range. And it’s mostly used as a weapon against inanimate, immobile objects. Quite sad.

The spec is a bit all over the place, that’s true.

I wasn’t suggesting using fire with arcane at all.
My staff spec for WvW is Fire/Air/Temp.
There’s no reason to ever use staff unless it is for max damage and control, because there is no valid survivability for eles outside of kill asap and max tankiness that d/f gives. Scepter is still awful. Dagger offhand still awful. I’ve used warhorn to be a reflect+boon spam hero from time to time.

Arcane by itself still doesn’t have an elite tied to it. I personally dislike everything in arcana tied to arcane. Arcana should be reworked into giving us more boons, cooldowns, and defense, and move away from applying condies that we don’t have a proper spec for. Our best condies are vulnerability and burn on the damage spectrum, and chill on the defensive. Those need to become the focus for going foward to building a strong class given what other classes bring to the table.

Another thing I didn’t mention was our lack of stealth option for what is, lets face it, the best escape in the game. I’m not saying we should ever have stealth. I would rather work toward getting quickness more readily than having to run s/f fresh air to do it. Staff with fresh air is horrible damage output. I do, however, use quickness on air attune at times when a lot of movement is required. D,D,U is the best air setup, unless you are playing a CC support ele, then staying in air for static/lightning strike (single target)/lightning rod combo with chill fields, and unsteady ground for max annoyance is definitely another fun aside to the norm. AoE hard cc is lacking in the current meta outside of fear well, lines, rings, and traps. There are so few staff eles now. I think a lot of staff eles are playing healer if anything, which is wrong imo.

@ Feanor.2358 Your sure switching from pve to pvp a lot you realty should stick to one or the other when talking about balancing. I do not cair about pve raids (much different then pve open world) i find it something that dose not fit in gw2. Wvw and spvp are my main thoughts even open world pve to a point.

You still not put up any ideals of your own there no back and forward going on here just ppl putting up there ideal and only YOU attking them.

I prefer the old school traditional Elementalist (or Mage) in GW1 or other MMos. You choice one or two elements but have more spells to choose from and each elements have different play style. I hope in next expansion Ele has the ability to choose whether to remain to be jack of all trade or focus on a rather improved, strong, elited version of single attuntment. (with the ability to acquire second weapon choice)

The remark about PvP was just a stray thought. A clarification, if you prefer. My commends are based mostly on PvE, as it is what I care mostly about. PvP and roaming in WvW aren’t my thing.

Feanor.2358:

The remark about PvP was just a stray thought. A clarification, if you prefer. My commends are based mostly on PvE, as it is what I care mostly about. PvP and roaming in WvW aren’t my thing.

I think i got that its just hard when ppl switch from one to another but still nice that you clarified. Pve to me is open world with a bit of dungeons and small story lines i am staying away from raids its too max min checks for me. So when i am talking about these things i am talking every thing but raids.

Any way back to my list Conjurer, Rock Solid, and Tempestuous Aria.

Conjurer need to make holding a conjure wepon better so i think this should give you a 1 stack puling stab ever 3 sec as well as a pulsing fury 3 sec every 3 sec. Over all conjurer weapons need to be duration not charges but this is what we have atm.

Rock solid i think needs to be an passive aoe def buff not a weak stab. Have a say class only buff that is -10% stun duration / condi duration (far better then just dmg -% i started out with). I think it fits the becoming solid and unmovable as a rock but for your team.

Tempestuous Aria NEEDS to have a cdr effect on it but not a blunt one it should reward you for hitting ppl with aggsive part of ele shouts and the aura part of the shouts to. So say -3% cdr on should per person hit (max 30% if you hit 5 team mates with the aura and 5 ppl on the other team).

Reverse pre hot nerfs june 2015 on fire traitline and arcane. Also reverse cool downs for trait elements from 20% back to 33%. Add back “Lingering Elements” 5 secs, back into arcane trait line as built in mechanic.

Make an exotic rune set that works with cantrips.

Example: Power/precision — gain 2 secs quickness and cloak on cantrip usage.

or Power/ferocity — gain 3 stacks of might for 24 seconds on cantrip usage.

or Power/tough — gain aegis for 3 seconds and 5 secs regen CD 30 seconds using cantrips.

It would be fun. :P

Jski.6180:

Feanor.2358:

The remark about PvP was just a stray thought. A clarification, if you prefer. My commends are based mostly on PvE, as it is what I care mostly about. PvP and roaming in WvW aren’t my thing.

I think i got that its just hard when ppl switch from one to another but still nice that you clarified. Pve to me is open world with a bit of dungeons and small story lines i am staying away from raids its too max min checks for me. So when i am talking about these things i am talking every thing but raids.

Any way back to my list Conjurer, Rock Solid, and Tempestuous Aria.

Conjurer need to make holding a conjure wepon better so i think this should give you a 1 stack puling stab ever 3 sec as well as a pulsing fury 3 sec every 3 sec. Over all conjurer weapons need to be duration not charges but this is what we have atm.

Rock solid i think needs to be an passive aoe def buff not a weak stab. Have a say class only buff that is -10% stun duration / condi duration (far better then just dmg -% i started out with). I think it fits the becoming solid and unmovable as a rock but for your team.

Tempestuous Aria NEEDS to have a cdr effect on it but not a blunt one it should reward you for hitting ppl with aggsive part of ele shouts and the aura part of the shouts to. So say -3% cdr on should per person hit (max 30% if you hit 5 team mates with the aura and 5 ppl on the other team).

About raids – raids are the only place where skill/trait balance actually matters. In open world, dungeons, even high-level fractals you can go with pretty much any sensible build. Want to play cele d/d core ele? No problem, you can. Yeah, you won’t be optimal, but who cares? You still clear the content. Btw, I played briefly with full celestial in t4 fractals, so that’s not just a speculation.

Now, from PvE perspective, about the traits you mentioned:

Conjurer
Stab can be helpful, mainly as a way to avoid interruption on your icebow 4. However, it still doesn’t compete with Burning Precision. A fun way to make Conjurer more appealing would be to make it add a “stow” (and subsequently “draw”) action on your conjure, making it function like engi kits for limited time and charges. It might require a rebalance of the conjures, of course.

Rock Solid
Frankly, I doubt there ever will be a reason to pick Earth at all in PvE. So I trust you on this one.

Tempestuous Aria
Interesting idea, however I’d say the effect should cap at 5 targets, either friends or foes, because in PvE you’ll very rarely be able to take full advantage on it. Consider running solo, the fact the healing shout only targets allies, and that “Feel the burn!” can hit a very large number of foes.

So i realize what is wrong with raids and ppl who do raid its the polarization bubble mind set. Your only going to play with ppl who do raids and like them so ppl from the outside are going to seem off to you or even bad because your own view and likes are being magnified by ppl who think and play the same way you do. That not a problem until your bubble starts to destroy other ppl bubbles or at least makes your points of view very important or the game of raids defining to the full spectrum of pve and pvp. Your very worlds are showing of this “raids are the only place where skill/trait balance actually matters” that about as polarization as can be “my ideals are the only important ones and your means nothing” this is effectually what is wrong with the world over all (out side of the game and realty what was the ideal for gw2 not to be.)

It makes fools of us all your not the only person like this but this is going to be the death of gw2.

Any way back to the effects.

The fury would help a lot for though ele and having a duration effect over a charges would go a long way to helping weapons.

Anty condi still anty condi adding a bit of anty stun helps too. 2 sec stab with 1 stack is even less then useless in pve lol.

I guess shouts would be very rewarding for support vs boss as there just one most of the time but it would let a supportish build and move get a bit more dps / condi effects out.

Back to the list: Arcane Brilliance, Arcane Power and Signet of Water. Pvp wvw open pve minded.

Arcane brilliance (with my arcain changes and trite changes) starts to become a real tool for soft cc and dmg buff as well as being more able to land its max healing potential with out getting the random blocks making it a real heal skill over all.

Arcane power (with my ideal of arcain etc..) becomes usable with aoe and will apply real soft cc on aoe level making ele (most staff) into a real wvw monster for soft cc and dmg out put. Charges per hit just do not work on aoe skills.

Signet of Water is just sad atm it needs to at least be an aoe chill/dmg and needs real potential for cleaning condis. At least make the clear aoe ever 10 sec so it lives up to the support ideal of water.

Jski.6180:

Your very worlds are showing of this “raids are the only place where skill/trait balance actually matters” that about as polarization as can be “my ideals are the only important ones and your means nothing” this is effectually what is wrong with the world over all (out side of the game and realty what was the ideal for gw2 not to be.)

Except not. My words aren’t merely an opinion, because I gave arguments to support them. Either attack my arguments, or don’t. Trying to ignore them and diminish my point to an opinion isn’t going to work with me.

And again from PvE perspective: soft cc is mostly irrelevant and you get enough of it on weapon skills and utilities. Dedicating a whole trait line to it is an overkill which would make that trait line share the unfortunate fate of Water and Earth and never get picked in PvE. I agree Signet of Water is useless.

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

Your very worlds are showing of this “raids are the only place where skill/trait balance actually matters” that about as polarization as can be “my ideals are the only important ones and your means nothing” this is effectually what is wrong with the world over all (out side of the game and realty what was the ideal for gw2 not to be.)

Except not. My words aren’t merely an opinion, because I gave arguments to support them. Either attack my arguments, or don’t. Trying to ignore them and diminish my point to an opinion isn’t going to work with me.

And again from PvE perspective: soft cc is mostly irrelevant and you get enough of it on weapon skills and utilities. Dedicating a whole trait line to it is an overkill which would make that trait line share the unfortunate fate of Water and Earth and never get picked in PvE. I agree Signet of Water is useless.

Why have other game types then other then pve raids? If its all realty just for pve raids what has gw2 been for the last 5 years with out it?

Even in pve raids things like root blind slow and chill are useful vs mobs. I can see out running adds or even holding them (so in ff11 you would do massive sleeps to deal with adds that would let your group take out powerful mobs one at a time also know as mass cc) so you can take out one at a time or even run away. In a way it would be a grate roll for ele fall into.

I am looking for a dynamics blm sleepga video in ff11 but that was a long time ago i am having a hard time finding one i will try to link it here when i find it. Sry no luck brds did the same thing though.

Added note on the first part:
So make them usefully in wvw and open world pve. That is what i am trying to say and do here. If you do not find it that as ele is dose not matter in wvw for its build then there IS something wrong with the balancing and it should be fixed.

Jski.6180:

Why have other game types then other then pve raids? If its all realty just for pve raids what has gw2 been for the last 5 years with out it?

You’re misinterpreting my words. I never said raids are all there is to PvE. I said it’s the only place where balance actually matters. And it’s because the rest of the PvE is easy enough so you don’t need to bother being optimal.

The other modes are a different story. I see no real value in PvP. Since the rise of the MOBAs, this format is way better done there and a game designed around PvE will never match it. That being said, I’m fine with the game having one, as long as it doesn’t interfere with the core of the game.

WvW on the other hand has great potential because the combat system of the game works surprisingly well in large-scale combat. However, your focus seems to be mostly WvW roaming, which is just a less fair and balanced PvP.

Jski.6180:

Even in pve raids things like root blind slow and chill are useful vs mobs. I can see out running adds or even holding them (so in ff11 you would do massive sleeps to deal with adds that would let your group take out powerful mobs one at a time also know as mass cc) so you can take out one at a time or even run away. In a way it would be a grate roll for ele fall into.

Useful, sure. Worth sacrificing dps to get them? Certainly not.

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

Why have other game types then other then pve raids? If its all realty just for pve raids what has gw2 been for the last 5 years with out it?

You’re misinterpreting my words. I never said raids are all there is to PvE. I said it’s the only place where balance actually matters. And it’s because the rest of the PvE is easy enough so you don’t need to bother being optimal.

The other modes are a different story. I see no real value in PvP. Since the rise of the MOBAs, this format is way better done there and a game designed around PvE will never match it. That being said, I’m fine with the game having one, as long as it doesn’t interfere with the core of the game.

WvW on the other hand has great potential because the combat system of the game works surprisingly well in large-scale combat. However, your focus seems to be mostly WvW roaming, which is just a less fair and balanced PvP.

Jski.6180:

Even in pve raids things like root blind slow and chill are useful vs mobs. I can see out running adds or even holding them (so in ff11 you would do massive sleeps to deal with adds that would let your group take out powerful mobs one at a time also know as mass cc) so you can take out one at a time or even run away. In a way it would be a grate roll for ele fall into.

Useful, sure. Worth sacrificing dps to get them? Certainly not.

Your wrong though pve raids are different from the over all pve in gw2 so much so that it need to be pointed out. You may not mean it but Anet dose and they have gone out of there way to make raids different from any other content in gw2. That the problem with raids.

As things stand raids are going to be the main driving force behind new content for gw2 and its causing real problem in all game formats and ppl are becoming more resentful of ppl who def raids and play them. Its only going to get worst when L. Armor is only obtainment though raids.

Raids are not moba like at all they are there own thing and moba like game type in gw2 is strong hold an spvp. If any thing mobas bright online gaming back from pve games to more pvp games.

Staff ele was about big combat raoming would be going with dagger/dagger and that where ele is ok. Staff ele was hit so hard that you are hard press to see one in wvw any more.

You lose crit at 100% and a burn that all the dps you get from it but with my ideal you make up for it with a blunt dmg +% and unblockable effects. So loosening a bit of dmg for counter dmg mitigation something ele just dose not have at all like the other pure ish power dmg classes.

(I tried to respond in order.)

Seriously, learn to read properly. It’s pointless to continue like that.

Feanor.2358:

Seriously, learn to read properly. It’s pointless to continue like that.

Sry this is not about you this is about Anet and what they are doing to GW2 and how raids are destroying this game. Its already killed many builds in wvw mostly staff ele. If you do not like this i suggest you stop posting here because your less of an ele player and more of just a raider that just happens to play ele i guess.