Guild Wars 2

I wonder what kind of build some wvw ele could be using.

Somehow his Scepter Air #2 hits me for 5000 damage without fail, basically an instagib combo when he switches to air (air attunement + air #2 + air sigil + arcane blast for a total of 11k+ damage)

How to make it so air #2 can crit for 5000-5500 damage? doesn’t it have like 1200 base damage?

Don’t forget to add in Might and Fury.

obviously it was a critical strike, he’s pretty much running in 100% crit chance.

about might, he has 0 stacks because he rarely switches attunements, just sits in earth and then surprise! 12k damage.

if you are in sor or jq server, then it was probably my asura ele from bg hitting you that hard with scepter #2 skill, then again my “air attunement + air #2 + air sigil + arcane blast” combo hits bunker/healer eles over 13k. Plus you don’t have to be glass cannon or have might stacking to do that burst.

I’ve seen some very big crits from the “lightning strike on crit” sigil, and the attune change bolt and 2 bolt are both instant, if that crits the sigil can instantly happen too.

Eles do love the valk gear :p

OP’s signature suggests he isn’t running a toughness/vitality build……

Glass cannon elementalists hit hard. There aren’t many out there, because they tend to blow away in a strong breeze, but when you meet one with all his cooldowns up and you don’t dodge his burst, you’ll know it.

Like any instagib build, it’s gimicky and easily countered by most balanced builds. It can be fun to surprise a thief with it though. BLAM! Lightning! Hey look, I can burst too!

With something like this (could work with Valk gear as well due to reliance on Arcane Power), scepter Air 2 could potentially crit at around 4.4k damage, or up to nearly 7k with might stacks. Arcane Power could be used to force the skill to crit, along with the two arcane damage spells the burst could go over 15k damage (more with Electric Discharge and Sigil of Air procs as well). It’s strong enough to have the potential to be a raw counter to bursty thiefs or cleric-bunker eles/guards, I guess (15k damage vs a bunker build with 14k hp and reliance on healing after damage… when this burst is quite literally at instant speed and can be used while stunned). Then again, if the player using it screws up, they’re probably dead. Also if they’re against more than one opponent.

Rotation: Start in fire, dodge towards the opponent to give them burning, cast Arcane Power, switch to Air, cast Lightning Strike, Arcane Blast, Arcane Wave, pray to god that Sigil of Air procs. The entire rotation could be over in less than a second (but thanks to arcane power, every single attack crits with 122% crit damage)

And if it fails, die or use RTL to (attempt) to run away.

Of course, not sure if anybody should ever play a build that only deals with a single enemy and only functions once every 45 seconds… in WvW of all places. But as a roaming build for gibbing people that simply don’t expect it? I guess it could happen.

Thrashbarg.9820:

OP’s signature suggests he isn’t running a toughness/vitality build……

Glass cannon elementalists hit hard. There aren’t many out there, because they tend to blow away in a strong breeze, but when you meet one with all his cooldowns up and you don’t dodge his burst, you’ll know it.

Like any instagib build, it’s gimicky and easily countered by most balanced builds. It can be fun to surprise a thief with it though. BLAM! Lightning! Hey look, I can burst too!

Wrong, like I said you don’t have to be glass cannon or have might stacking to do great burst damage with the ele. My build and gear/stats are not of a glass cannon and of course even on zerg I survive a lot, possibly more than those bunker/healer eles that think they are unbeatable and jump in to the middle of a zerg and stay a bit too long. full glass cannon and bunker builds are weak against a burst build ele. Only other builds that have both high dmg and high armor can compete.

It’s basically a wannabe thief build.

That burst rotation has very high cd, and is pretty telegraphed. Unlike the thief, that ele has no staying power — his escape is crappy and people can focus him down regardless of what he wants to do.

People ran this build in the betas. It’s what got the ele nerfed so much prior to release. Then people realized that a thief can pretty much 3-shot you and so can a mesmer, so they sent the mesmer to dispose of this kind of ele.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Of course all those ppl that don’t know the potential of a burst build and how to survive with it will only speak nonsense.

Yeah, that’s why you remained vague about said build.

Zenith.7301:

It’s basically a wannabe thief build.

That burst rotation has very high cd, and is pretty telegraphed. Unlike the thief, that ele has no staying power — his escape is crappy and people can focus him down regardless of what he wants to do.

People ran this build in the betas. It’s what got the ele nerfed so much prior to release. Then people realized that a thief can pretty much 3-shot you and so can a mesmer, so they sent the mesmer to dispose of this kind of ele.

How is it telegraphed? I do not know when the guy will decide to switch to air.

I can expect it, but I won’t know for sure. It doesn’t help that it’s instant.

I’d say it’s overpowered, even. It barely has counterplay other than “pray that you dodge roll whenever the guy switches to air and rolls face on keyboard”

That is a good amount of damage, but that build comes with almost 0 survivability and is trash against more than 1 person. If you even get a jump on this person, they will melt faster than a naked gc thief. If you have enough toughness to survive thief burst, you should still be standing (esp. if you popped a defensive utility). Using your heal and hitting him back will quickly burn him down.

Also, you build might need a little tweaking if 11k damage instantly kills you. Yes, that is a lot but you should still have quite a bit left, unless you are a glass cannon. If you are glass, then don’t be surprised that other glass bursted you down.

Thief burst is melee, this burst is ranged.

I’m talking about instant 11k+ damage in less than a second from 900 range.

Razor.6392:

Thief burst is melee, this burst is ranged.

I’m talking about instant 11k+ damage in less than a second from 900 range.

Actually you are right, it isn’t telegraphed at all, and is ranged. I don’t see why we should lie about it being predictable.

I mean, it is kind of possible to see it coming (maybe) but the entire combo can be pulled off at any moment (except the weapon sigil, which is finicky to time in actual combat).

Edit: I’m not saying it’s overpowered (nor that it isn’t). But the build lacks defense and is basically a one-trick pony, even though that one trick has very little counter. Thieves can do twice the burst in .5 seconds as well (Steal is 900 range after all, and you can stealth away afterwards) and yet they still insist that it is balanced, even when that has little counter as well.

Also, how do you get 11k damage? I haven’t been able to get those numbers.

11k damage isn’t much for a combo that uses all 3 utilities. I’ve been hit for that much by a single heart seeker.

Caffynated.5713:

11k damage isn’t much for a combo that uses all 3 utilities. I’ve been hit for that much by a single heart seeker.

lol 3 utilities, it’s only one… plus from 12-15k of dmg (depending on enemy armor) comes from this small burst rotation and there’s still 3 other burst rotations on our disposal that deal even more dmg each.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Zenith.7301:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Of course all those ppl that don’t know the potential of a burst build and how to survive with it will only speak nonsense.

Yeah, that’s why you remained vague about said build.

That’s because you shouldn’t depend on others telling you all the details about a build and how to play depending on your opponent/s and scenario like daphoenix did with you guys. You got to find that out on your own experience. I’m done here, you guys are just so used to the bunker/healer build and that alone will keep you from becoming more skillful with this profession that has so much potential to be great at various type of builds.

You just revealed yourself there. It wouldn’t have mattered if it was charlie brown who wrote the guide on d/d build. It was being ran before, daphoenix just helped give it more light in WvW. Its the same with many many other builds in this game it starts in s/tPvP then later moves to WvW.

We all know the swap attunement etc part most people that know a little bit about ele know the attacks that are doing the damage. That has nothing to do with learning how to play. The damage that is caused by those attacks is gear based that is what the OP and others in here are trying to figure out. Not how to swap to air and pop arcane skills.

TL/DR you aren’t holding on to some great secret sorry. Some simple testing can reveal how to get access to that damage if it is possible like the op said. Hey at least you can tell your friends I was running this before everyone else was and be cool to them

oZii.2864:

TL/DR you aren’t holding on to some great secret sorry. Some simple testing can reveal how to get access to that damage if it is possible like the op said. Hey at least you can tell your friends I was running this before everyone else was and be cool to them

It is very well possible. I’ll post a screenshot whenever I get instagibbed again.

Zenith.7301:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Of course all those ppl that don’t know the potential of a burst build and how to survive with it will only speak nonsense.

Yeah, that’s why you remained vague about said build.

This LightningBlaze dude posting in elementalist threads claiming this godly glass/dmg build he uses. Yet he has no videos or anything to show proof of it. Every top level (spvp and WvW) ele has a guide, build, or videos to prove their skills.

On top of that the math doesn’t work out. 1.2 ratio on Air #2 + 2400 power (food + high power glass build with some knight pieces) + high end weapon damage (1009) + 2.75 crit damage = 3k damage on 2.6k armor targets (which is like what most damage based bunker eles run). Bit from FA runs a ~74% crit damage with 2.7k armor with 16-17k hp build. 0.4 ratio on both arcane skills and 0.7 on switching to air attune. At most you’ll get like 7-8k damage on a 2.6k armor bunker target which is like 50% of their hp. And this is the high end range of that damage. At the same time, you have to waste 2 utilities for this which leaves you with one for a stun break or condition removal. Anyone who is skilled will tell you that there is a disadvantage with having these utilities.

As for the OP, the only time you would take like 10k+ damage and die from air attunement + arcane spells is if you are built glass with base/low hp + armor/toughness.

CuRtoKy.8576:

This LightningBlaze dude posting in elementalist threads claiming this godly glass/dmg build he uses. Yet he has no videos or anything to show proof of it.

Exactly, fraps or it didn’t happen.

Every top level (spvp and WvW) ele has a guide, build, or videos to prove their skills.

Are you sure?

CuRtoKy.8576:

Zenith.7301:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Of course all those ppl that don’t know the potential of a burst build and how to survive with it will only speak nonsense.

Yeah, that’s why you remained vague about said build.

This LightningBlaze dude posting in elementalist threads claiming this godly glass/dmg build he uses. Yet he has no videos or anything to show proof of it. Every top level (spvp and WvW) ele has a guide, build, or videos to prove their skills.

On top of that the math doesn’t work out. 1.2 ratio on Air #2 + 2400 power (food + high power glass build with some knight pieces) + high end weapon damage (1009) + 2.75 crit damage = 3k damage on 2.6k armor targets (which is like what most damage based bunker eles run). Bit from FA runs a ~74% crit damage with 2.7k armor with 16-17k hp build. 0.4 ratio on both arcane skills and 0.7 on switching to air attune. At most you’ll get like 7-8k damage on a 2.6k armor bunker target which is like 50% of their hp. And this is the high end range of that damage. At the same time, you have to waste 2 utilities for this which leaves you with one for a stun break or condition removal. Anyone who is skilled will tell you that there is a disadvantage with having these utilities.

As for the OP, the only time you would take like 10k+ damage and die from air attunement + arcane spells is if you are built glass with base/low hp + armor/toughness.

I have 14k HP. a 11k damage burst doesn’t kill me, but when combined with a pre-casted instant spell like earthquake, it comes kitten close.

Even if that doesn’t happen, in a 1v1 situation I won’t sit at full hp the entire fight, as soon as I drop to 80% ish HP im done for.

Razor.6392:

I wonder what kind of build some wvw ele could be using.

Somehow his Scepter Air #2 hits me for 5000 damage without fail, basically an instagib combo when he switches to air (air attunement + air #2 + air sigil + arcane blast for a total of 11k+ damage)

How to make it so air #2 can crit for 5000-5500 damage? doesn’t it have like 1200 base damage?

i run the same build that ele runs, and for him to be hitting you that hard, he needs to have 125+ crit dmg percentage. i have around 115 and i crit mine for 4k or less depending on armor. eles burst are worse than thieves, but if you can avoid the initial burst, thats when you need to cc and retaliate. atleast we dont go invisible

I’ve seen this build a few times during the zergs in WvW and there is really only one thing in GW2 that can effectively counter it – a Mesmer…

I’m going to run away now…

LightningBlaze.4913:

I know many great players that like me don’t care about recognition,

Lol’d.

Abusing a broken build hardly makes you a “great player”, judging from ANet design philosophy (or any competitive game worth a kitten ), an unpredictable, instagibbing ranged burst cannot possibly be balanced.

I’m calculating a base burst before crit of five hits (Lightning Strike, Electric Discharge, Arcane Wave, Arcane Blast, Ride the Lightning) totalling 5559 damage + sigil of air (can’t crit, roughly 83% chance of triggering during the burst). This is calculated against 2600 armor. All five hits crit – Arcane Power gives 100% crit for precisely that many hits.

Throw in crit damage. This build hits 122% crit damage, so we’ll go with a 2.72 multiplier.

5559 * 2.72 = 15120 (rounded down)

Throw in damage multipliers. There aren’t many, but 10% while attuned to air (already factored in by the build editor), sigil of force (already factored in the build editor) and 5% if the enemy is on fire (can be fixed assuming the target doesn’t react and cleanse within 1 second, thanks to Evasive Arcana fire dodge)

15120 * 1.05 =15876

Sigil of Air will add another 1028 damage or so if it procs, or 1187 if it triggers in air attunement while the target is on fire.

So final damage = 17063 (before 20% from bolt to the heart, might, bloodlust (pushes it 10% higher if the ele farms mob kills somewhere first, with max might+bloodlust the damage is up nearly 50%), vulnerability (of which we’ll get 1-3 stacks during the burst), the additional burning damage and direct damage from the dodge roll at the start, bonuses from other classes…)

That’s 17063 damage which happens almost as fast as the elementalist can hit 5 buttons. Apart from dodging at exactly the right moment when there’s almost no warning, there’s not much that can be done to survive it other than having high enough stats.

Interestingly, Ride the Lightning can be used in an instant-cast burst because it’s also instant-cast and has moderately high damage.

Numerically speaking, the only elementalists that’ll survive the base burst are ones wearing gear with both vitality and toughness, or happen to have protection up when the burst begins -and- have 12k or more base hp. Same goes for thieves and to a degree, guardians.

But it’ll never (except with high might+bloodlust) one-shot any warrior or necromancer with toughness gear. It might get them close, but they’ll have time to react. This kills the now-helpless berserker-elementalist-who-happens-to-be-in-melee-range.

Razor.6392:

I’d say it’s overpowered, even. It barely has counterplay other than “pray that you dodge roll whenever the guy switches to air and rolls face on keyboard”

The counterplay is to have even a little bit of toughness or vitality in your build and then press 6. Now you’re safe and he’ll die to pretty much anything you throw at him.

Or, alternately, to have even one other person with you. Because while that burst was flashy, he can’t do it again for 45 seconds and he’ll die way before he gets that chance, rallying you.

Dingle.2743:

I’m calculating a base burst before crit of five hits (Lightning Strike, Electric Discharge, Arcane Wave, Arcane Blast, Ride the Lightning) totalling 5559 damage + sigil of air (can’t crit, roughly 83% chance of triggering during the burst). This is calculated against 2600 armor. All five hits crit – Arcane Power gives 100% crit for precisely that many hits.

Throw in crit damage. This build hits 122% crit damage, so we’ll go with a 2.72 multiplier.

5559 * 2.72 = 15120 (rounded down)

Throw in damage multipliers. There aren’t many, but 10% while attuned to air (already factored in by the build editor), sigil of force (already factored in the build editor) and 5% if the enemy is on fire (can be fixed assuming the target doesn’t react and cleanse within 1 second, thanks to Evasive Arcana fire dodge)

15120 * 1.05 =15876

Sigil of Air will add another 1028 damage or so if it procs, or 1187 if it triggers in air attunement while the target is on fire.

So final damage = 17063 (before 20% from bolt to the heart, might, bloodlust (pushes it 10% higher if the ele farms mob kills somewhere first, with max might+bloodlust the damage is up nearly 50%), vulnerability (of which we’ll get 1-3 stacks during the burst), the additional burning damage and direct damage from the dodge roll at the start, bonuses from other classes…)

That’s 17063 damage which happens almost as fast as the elementalist can hit 5 buttons. Apart from dodging at exactly the right moment when there’s almost no warning, there’s not much that can be done to survive it other than having high enough stats.

Interestingly, Ride the Lightning can be used in an instant-cast burst because it’s also instant-cast and has moderately high damage.

Numerically speaking, the only elementalists that’ll survive the base burst are ones wearing gear with both vitality and toughness, or happen to have protection up when the burst begins -and- have 12k or more base hp. Same goes for thieves and to a degree, guardians.

But it’ll never (except with high might+bloodlust) one-shot any warrior or necromancer with toughness gear. It might get them close, but they’ll have time to react. This kills the now-helpless berserker-elementalist-who-happens-to-be-in-melee-range.

That is a full zerker build lightning blaze dude said its not glass. Which depends on his definition of not glass as a ele.

oZii.2864:

That is a full zerker build lightning blaze dude said its not glass. Which depends on his definition of not glass as a ele.

Because it doesn’t actually rely on precision (which is just a backup during the time in which arcane power is down) it could actually run Valkyrie gear and at least have vitality.

The burst relies too much on huge cooldowns to really be useful for anything other than GC, though. If it fails it’s relying on the opponent not being able to just heal up again or kill it.

Dingle.2743:

oZii.2864:

That is a full zerker build lightning blaze dude said its not glass. Which depends on his definition of not glass as a ele.

Because it doesn’t actually rely on precision (which is just a backup during the time in which arcane power is down) it could actually run Valkyrie gear and at least have vitality.

The burst relies too much on huge cooldowns to really be useful for anything other than GC, though. If it fails it’s relying on the opponent not being able to just heal up again or kill it.

So basically it’s for ganking people while they’re fighting someone else?

Wait for them to hit 70%, then unload and run away?

oZii.2864:

Dingle.2743:

I’m calculating a base burst before crit of five hits (Lightning Strike, Electric Discharge, Arcane Wave, Arcane Blast, Ride the Lightning) totalling 5559 damage + sigil of air (can’t crit, roughly 83% chance of triggering during the burst). This is calculated against 2600 armor. All five hits crit – Arcane Power gives 100% crit for precisely that many hits.

Throw in crit damage. This build hits 122% crit damage, so we’ll go with a 2.72 multiplier.

5559 * 2.72 = 15120 (rounded down)

Throw in damage multipliers. There aren’t many, but 10% while attuned to air (already factored in by the build editor), sigil of force (already factored in the build editor) and 5% if the enemy is on fire (can be fixed assuming the target doesn’t react and cleanse within 1 second, thanks to Evasive Arcana fire dodge)

15120 * 1.05 =15876

Sigil of Air will add another 1028 damage or so if it procs, or 1187 if it triggers in air attunement while the target is on fire.

So final damage = 17063 (before 20% from bolt to the heart, might, bloodlust (pushes it 10% higher if the ele farms mob kills somewhere first, with max might+bloodlust the damage is up nearly 50%), vulnerability (of which we’ll get 1-3 stacks during the burst), the additional burning damage and direct damage from the dodge roll at the start, bonuses from other classes…)

That’s 17063 damage which happens almost as fast as the elementalist can hit 5 buttons. Apart from dodging at exactly the right moment when there’s almost no warning, there’s not much that can be done to survive it other than having high enough stats.

Interestingly, Ride the Lightning can be used in an instant-cast burst because it’s also instant-cast and has moderately high damage.

Numerically speaking, the only elementalists that’ll survive the base burst are ones wearing gear with both vitality and toughness, or happen to have protection up when the burst begins -and- have 12k or more base hp. Same goes for thieves and to a degree, guardians.

But it’ll never (except with high might+bloodlust) one-shot any warrior or necromancer with toughness gear. It might get them close, but they’ll have time to react. This kills the now-helpless berserker-elementalist-who-happens-to-be-in-melee-range.

That is a full zerker build lightning blaze dude said its not glass. Which depends on his definition of not glass as a ele.

I posted my stats on another thread, my armor is 2403 with food buff with rock barrier is a bit over 2600 and 16.4k of hp, if you consider that to be glass then I am glass cannon.

PinCushion.7390:

So basically it’s for ganking people while they’re fighting someone else?

Wait for them to hit 70%, then unload and run away?

Exactly. It’s gimmicky and broken build, unlike meta build.

haviz.1340:

PinCushion.7390:

So basically it’s for ganking people while they’re fighting someone else?

Wait for them to hit 70%, then unload and run away?

Exactly. It’s gimmicky and broken build, unlike meta build.

Sounds like burst DPS to me. You turn long fights into short fights and make your opponents waste time being dead.

Why is that broken and gimmicky? I don’t sPvP all that much, so I guess I’m just not understanding why it’s bad to down someone every 36 seconds.

haviz.1340:

PinCushion.7390:

So basically it’s for ganking people while they’re fighting someone else?

Wait for them to hit 70%, then unload and run away?

Exactly. It’s gimmicky and broken build, unlike meta build.

A bit gimmicky but that’s not inherently bad. The game is better when there’s a dynamic range of options available. If you roam in WvW, you should have to worry about getting slammed by someone packing crazyhigh singletarget damage, as well as more balanced builds and bunker builds and condi builds etc etc. We shouldn’t be able to expect to fight one kind of opponent and always be right. That leads to stagnation and ultimately the death of the game.

Blaine Tog.8304:

haviz.1340:

PinCushion.7390:

So basically it’s for ganking people while they’re fighting someone else?

Wait for them to hit 70%, then unload and run away?

Exactly. It’s gimmicky and broken build, unlike meta build.

A bit gimmicky but that’s not inherently bad. The game is better when there’s a dynamic range of options available. If you roam in WvW, you should have to worry about getting slammed by someone packing crazyhigh singletarget damage, as well as more balanced builds and bunker builds and condi builds etc etc. We shouldn’t be able to expect to fight one kind of opponent and always be right. That leads to stagnation and ultimately the death of the game.

Oh, for WvW I’d say this playstyle is pretty normal. It’s just we’re used to calling it “Thief.” Ganking is just part of any open-world PvP system, so what’s so gimmicky about that?

Did some quick tests in Heart of the Mists, here’s my damage output with 62% crit damage and 2k power:

http://imgur.com/dNj2J0y

Interestingly, Arcane Blast does more damage than Arcane Wave, even though the tooltip for Arcane Wave ay it deals nearly double the damage. Arcane Wave also does less damage than Lightning Strike (when it should be doing about 40% more). The net total of Arcane Wave and Arcane Blast is still similar to my previous calculations. This is… however, probably due to Bolt to the Heart. In a real-world situation the burst is still likely to push somebody below 33% at the same time.

In this combat log:
Sum of damage that can crit: 9854
Factor in the increased damage from my previous build: 12643
Factor in increased power (roughly +20%): 15171

Sum of non-critting damage: 717
Factor in power: 860

Final total damage in a WvW scenario: 16031 (before other stuff)

Comes out a little lower than my previous calculations, but it’s noted on the wiki that the tooltip values for Arcane Wave and Arcane Blast are higher than the real value.

I think this burst is a little too weak for sPvP – it’ll only gib Glass Cannons, and even then probably only GC thieves, guards and eles. Having a very high cooldown between bursts means it’s relying of the otherwise hard-to-hit-with scepter skills for a while afterwards. However, the WvW numbers are relatively decent, remembering that the damage could be increased up to 33% simply from opponents that aren’t running toughness, and it’s not factoring in bloodlust, might, etc. It should be able to hit 12-15 might stacks from blast finishers if it wants, though that would telegraph the burst a lot more.

LightningBlaze.4913:

I posted my stats on another thread, my armor is 2403 with food buff with rock barrier is a bit over 2600 and 16.4k of hp, if you consider that to be glass then I am glass cannon.

Oh thats glass straight up glass for my personal preference anyway. I like 2600+ before food well -30% damage mitigation is my cutoff unless I am playing on my mesmer or thief. The hp is okish for what I like for ele. I am more a 16.8k guy.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Razor.6392:

I’d say it’s overpowered, even. It barely has counterplay other than “pray that you dodge roll whenever the guy switches to air and rolls face on keyboard”

The counterplay is to have even a little bit of toughness or vitality in your build and then press 6. Now you’re safe and he’ll die to pretty much anything you throw at him.

Or, alternately, to have even one other person with you. Because while that burst was flashy, he can’t do it again for 45 seconds and he’ll die way before he gets that chance, rallying you.

My burning speed can do 5300 damage to him, so he’s not that tanky (probably lying).

But still, to pin down an elementalist… it’s not easy.

He uses ether renewal, lightning flash, arcane blast and mist form. And fiery greatsword for an elite (spams 3 and 4 to get away from everything).

His burst has a downtime of 12ish seconds in the best case scenario, and even if it fails Air #1 still does ridic damage (6000 damage for the entire channel, on average)

And no… he doesn’t use arcane power, like I said, he uses Lightning flash, mist form and arcane blast. Also uses crit chance stackable sigil. I’m sure the guy has like 30 points in air, scholar runes or some kitten.

You are telling me that people can’t notice when you’re switching to air attunement? 1 second window is still more than enough time to react with an immunity or prot buff.

Most people in WvW run at least 1.6k toughness anyways if they are going to roam.

My BM bunker ranger runs 2.2k toughness. You won’t be hitting me for even close of 12k damage total.

I will eat your little burst on my bunker, heal it back up, and proceed to spank you if you don’t run away.

The difference between this “ranged” burst and a thief is that the thief can drop target and do so for quite a long time. He’s got at least 2 teleports, a stealth from BP>HS at least every 6-7 seconds, and shadow refuge, on top of his stealth heal.

You’ve got long cd cantrips to try to get away, and any engineer or bunker ranger will rock your world.

This build works in spvp with Phantaram because what he does is intervene while a fight is going on and, like a thief, gibs some distracted player who’s out of dodges.

In any WvW teamfight people will notice you are squishy and send a mesmer your way.

This whole “that burst is ranged while his is melee” distinction is a meaningless distinction when you can backstab out of steal or a shadowstep to target, let alone the fact that melee won’t be a problem as you are stealthed and very few classes have spiky nontarget requiring cleave damage to spam while you’re in stealth closing distance.

The thief’s sustained from dagger mainhand auto is also way better post-burst pressure than the ele will be doing once he’s blow his burst. As scepter all your autoattacks blow (6k damage on a 2+ sec channel is pretty measly considering my guardian’s greatsword with pvt gear and berk accessories, not even glass cannon, crits his instant melee auto for 3k cleave).

Range is not really the advantage people make it to be in skirmishes, especially if you’re a class like the thief or mesmer with so many active defenses/target drops to mitigate berserker armor frailty.

The entire burst happens as fast as the keys can be pressed; you don’t have 1 second, you have as much time as it takes somebody to press 6 keys, and only the first 2 have to be in a specific order.

I’m sure if somebody really wanted to dedicate themselves to this burst they’d set up their input so they just have to slide their hand down 6 keys, which can be done potentially faster than the victim’s connection will even register the first input. There really isn’t a warning, and the person playing it could try and bait out dodges using fire skills beforehand.

I guess I don’t see why it’s such a big deal. It’s high burst and it happens very quickly, sure, but a decent roaming thief could do pretty much the same thing, except you wouldn’t even be able to see them coming at all and they would have an even easier time escaping afterwards..

Blaine Tog.8304:

I guess I don’t see why it’s such a big deal. It’s high burst and it happens very quickly, sure, but a decent roaming thief could do pretty much the same thing, except you wouldn’t even be able to see them coming at all and they would have an even easier time escaping afterwards..

except I don’t have issues with thieves’ burst being unpredictable. 1-2 seconds reaction time is enough for me to do something about it. This specific case however… it happens in less than 0.5 seconds.

some theorycraft I’ve made.

0/30/0/30/10, or even 0 points in arcana is a possibility (the guy said he doesn’t need might or fury, and barely switches attunements)

vital striking, air +10% damage, scholar runes, air sigil + accuracy sigil, once accuracy sigil is fully stacked he switches to +5% damage or +5% crit chance.

1 or 2 valkyrie & cavalier armor / weps, rest berserker’s.

100 prec 10% crit chance / 5% power to vit, 3% toughness to vit foods.

Razor.6392:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Razor.6392:

I’d say it’s overpowered, even. It barely has counterplay other than “pray that you dodge roll whenever the guy switches to air and rolls face on keyboard”

The counterplay is to have even a little bit of toughness or vitality in your build and then press 6. Now you’re safe and he’ll die to pretty much anything you throw at him.

Or, alternately, to have even one other person with you. Because while that burst was flashy, he can’t do it again for 45 seconds and he’ll die way before he gets that chance, rallying you.

My burning speed can do 5300 damage to him, so he’s not that tanky (probably lying).

But still, to pin down an elementalist… it’s not easy.

He uses ether renewal, lightning flash, arcane blast and mist form. And fiery greatsword for an elite (spams 3 and 4 to get away from everything).

His burst has a downtime of 12ish seconds in the best case scenario, and even if it fails Air #1 still does ridic damage (6000 damage for the entire channel, on average)

And no… he doesn’t use arcane power, like I said, he uses Lightning flash, mist form and arcane blast. Also uses crit chance stackable sigil. I’m sure the guy has like 30 points in air, scholar runes or some kitten.

That’s can’t be me then, I never notice my auto doing more than 5.1k of dmg and unless you attack me from my blind spot on 1v1 or 1v2, you will never hit me with burning speed. Finally I use the fiery greatsword in combat as well not only for getting away from zerg.

LightningBlaze.4913:

ahh the assumption that the air rotation is the only burst we ele have… poor easy victims.

Yeah, obviously outside air+arcane utility a Phoenix Burst is SO easy to land rolls eyes.

Too bad you roll over noobs who eat a fire grab or 3 strike phoenix.

P.S. Arc Lightning with berk gear and a few might stacks can do over 6k in squishy targets, but it’s a terrible DPS ability if you actually compare it to other autos. People need to look more than just the numbers. 100b seems great but the reason it’s outdamaged by warrior axe mainhand is because you have to consider the channel time in which that damage number total happens and what could have been done otherwise.

Razor.6392:

except I don’t have issues with thieves’ burst being unpredictable. 1-2 seconds reaction time is enough for me to do something about it. This specific case however… it happens in less than 0.5 seconds.

A Thief can burst you in 0.5 seconds too. As long as CnD is precast, the entire combo can be performed very quickly (it can even be done with an auto-stun from Basilisk Venom so dodging won’t work)

Edit: This isn’t directed at you, but rather at the poster two posts above this one. The Scepter is notorious for having very powerful but hard to land abilities:
-Dragon’s Tooth
-Phoenix
-Shatterstone (I think it hits pretty hard, but nobody ever stands in it so I can’t be sure)
-Fire Grab, Churning Earth, RTL (if from range) are all offhand dagger abilities (scepter + dagger is most common set) that are difficult to land for various reasons.

I’m not saying that the Lightning Attunement + Air #2 + Sigil + RTL combo is easy to dodge (it’s almost impossible) but to extend that and say all scepter combos are easy to hit is just ignorant.

Zenith.7301:

LightningBlaze.4913:

ahh the assumption that the air rotation is the only burst we ele have… poor easy victims.

Yeah, obviously outside air+arcane utility a Phoenix Burst is SO easy to land rolls eyes.

Too bad you roll over noobs who eat a fire grab or 3 strike phoenix.

P.S. Arc Lightning with berk gear and a few might stacks can do over 6k in squishy targets, but it’s a terrible DPS ability if you actually compare it to other autos. People need to look more than just the numbers. 100b seems great but the reason it’s outdamaged by warrior axe mainhand is because you have to consider the channel time in which that damage number total happens and what could have been done otherwise.

Why there has to be people that make up words that i never said. Of course it isn’t easy to land these but they are not that hard either. For example many say that dragon’s tooth never hits after updraft because your opponent can always dodge out of the way, that’s not completely true. If you cast the skill fast your opponent don’t have a chance to dodge. Of course if you pressed that button a mini sec too late then he will have that opportunity. Otherwise the only way to avoid it or prevent dmg from it is by using one of their utilities. With Phoenix it is best to be within melee range (which isn’t hard to accomplish even as a s/d ele) to hit opponent 3 times but in order to do so you gotta read your opponent such as how many dodges he has left, at his buffs, is he straffing/moving straight or being stunned and does he have/used utility that can counter this skill. I also find enabling the option “Fast Ground Targeting” to be extremely useful for this sort of skill once you are accustomed to it (Warning: at first this option can be very frustrating but once you become great with it, it can be very helpful).

Here’s comes another benefit of using a burst build, many ppl will panic seeing their health go down a bit too fast and will make mistake such as dodging unnecessary or wasting a utility. Fire grab is the same scenario and i normally use this in conjunction with my favorite utility lightning flash. As a solo/small group roamer in wvw you meet all sort of players; beginners that all they focus on is trying to lower their opponent health and pros that actually read you and use their profession skills wisely thus provide you with a very fun challenging match.

LightningBlaze.4913:

many say that dragon’s tooth never hits after updraft because your opponent can always dodge out of the way, that’s not completely true. If you cast the skill fast your opponent don’t have a chance to dodge. Of course if you pressed that button a mini sec too late then he will have that opportunity. Otherwise the only way to avoid it or prevent dmg from it is by using one of their utilities.

2 second CC

Dragon’s Tooth takes ~3 seconds to hit

Seems legit.

That’s why you precast the dragon’s tooth before doing the updraft. But it’s still heavily telegraphed.

Just like fire grab or phoenix. All these skills have obvious animations if you’ve played the ele for any amount of time. You know when an ele draws his arms back he’s gonna do a push animation with fire grab, so you wait till he drags his arms back so when you dodge the dodge frames are still active even when he lightning flashes.

You can do the same with lightning flash and churning earth. Many noobs will dodge immediately, but it’s such a simple combo to dodge if you’re familiar with the channeling time, you can time your dodge frames till the last moment and even with lightning flakitten will not land. This also applies with lightning flash burning speed. It’s a problem that people dodge early, and yes you can punish them.

You can also take measures like taking 30 arcana for the 30 trait that will give you a short root on earth attunement when you use an arcane skill, so you can cast DT, and a second after if the opponent has delayed dodging you can nail him with a root and he has to eat it.

But if anyone has an ele alt they know why in hell would a scepter ele ever stay in melee with you. He’s either going for an updraft, or a fire grab, or a phoenix, or an earthquake, and all of these options are easily flagged by attunement change graphics.

This build is effective on people that are ignorant about ele animations. You could say the same of fighting an asura phantasm mesmer. At first it will be rather rough, but once you get familiar with the conditions, patterns, and animations of attacks gimmick builds lose a lot of steam.

So this build, against competent opponents, becomes more like the role of a roaming thief. You are an opportunistic killer. You stay back in a group fight baiting dodges with dragon tooths and thorwing a couple of ranged spells while saving phoenix and the air skills/hurl/arcane skills, and when you see your teammates have immobilized someone or they are out of dodges and at 60-70%, you do your gib combo for the team.

I still don’t consider this to be close to a roaming build. BM bunker rangers will heal up this burst easily, and you can’t repeat it so often as to overwhelm a build with such big burst and sustained healing. It certainly won’t work on engineers because they can also stall out burst and kill attempts rather well. Any class with a decent amount of protection or stability will nullify this build.

This is a very effective build to have in a spvp team when you’re running multiple eles. 2-3 eles, one of the CC’s will land and unless there’s a guardian around you’ll have the opportunity to dump your burst alongside someone else’s. But this is not aunique ele function — thieves and mesmers (good mesmers) also do this very well.

I just don’t like the idea of some guy going and spending some money on a new set being back in the forums disappointed about the results of his roaming when he came across a good roaming bunker.

The scepter burst spec has existed since closed beta, and there’s a reason why the meta shifted and it became a very niche spec. It requires a lot of support to work around competent and properly specced opponents.

Zenith.7301:

That’s why you precast the dragon’s tooth before doing the updraft.

That only works if the enemy isn’t moving during the initial cast time of Dragon’s Tooth. I can at least force a dodge with Updraft – Dragon’s Tooth.

You could take Elemental Surge, switch to Earth and use Arcane Blast/Wave while casting, and then Earthquake to seal the deal. Once every 45 seconds.

That’s what I did until I decided to not bother actually getting DT to hit, and just went for decreased Arcane skill cooldowns. (Should prolly give it another go, anyway.)

Razor.6392:

except I don’t have issues with thieves’ burst being unpredictable. 1-2 seconds reaction time is enough for me to do something about it. This specific case however… it happens in less than 0.5 seconds.

A glassy roaming thief in WvW can easily kill you in less than a second if they’re any good, and their burst comes with a built-in stun at the start (Basilisk Venom).

At least you probably knew the Ele was there before they can start this kind of combo. That thief could’ve potentially popped Shadow Refuge around a corner, giving him nearly 10 seconds to saunter up to within Steal range, then blow his whole combo while you have your inventory open, browsing through your loot.

I do give you points on how easy it is to read the elementalist skill animations and strategies Zenith but the same goes for any of the other profession specific weapon set if you are familiar with them. You know the old saying “knowledge is power”. Once again you go with the assumption that i am glass cannon (i am not so bunker either) and that you know my playstyle, when in reality you don’t. I am usually at the front/side/behind of the enemy zerg downing 1-3 people before I need to head back to heal. In spvp/tpvp bunker builds still rule and burst builds are more like average dps glass cannon type builds instead, which you will never kill a bunker/healer with on your own. Back to wvw fun pvp, I have encountered a few rangers that are really bunker/healer types and i do agree they can take my different type of bursts and heal up fully even if i interrupt them, they can’t kill me either since they deal very mediocre damage that I can easily withstand and outheal. ( I have a video where a match took over 17 mins battling one of these ranger until we both decided to let it go.) Those rangers that are both average/high dmg and bunker are killable with my burst build easily. Engies are no exception, I duel a real good engi 4 days ago that knew ele very well in pvp since his main was an ele. We had a total of 25 duels and we kept track while having tons of fun. At the end I won 13 of those; I got exhausted and had to log off to take a break. The point? it is not really the profession that can counter this build but more about how extreme bunker/healer the opponent build is and how skillful the player itself can be. An engi with the same build/gear/weapon set/stats/utilities can perform either poorly or amazingly depending on the player skills within combat. I don’t recommend anyone on changing their gears to try this build. Those that are so accustomed to be bunker/healers will find it to be very difficult to adjust. Personally I love this build primarily because I chose this profession for this main motive to deal massive burst to other players while having great cc. I came from aion to play gw2 and as a massive burst damage dealer sorcerer I was in there, my ele in here fits that role quite right.