Guild Wars 2

We can all agree that the side-effects of Tornado and FGS were not in the line with others.
Option to ‘adjust’ the Vapour Form is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen.

Note to ANet: When you decide to nerf our only viable choices at least give us non-kittenty options to replace them.

Which Elite to choose now?
- In any scenario (PvE, dungs, fractals, open bosses, WvW, except 1on1 PvP) Glyph of Elements elite is terrible. Not only do the Elements die within 5 seconds of summoning, most of them don’t even stay at range since they’re not tanky enough.

- Tornado is now completely useless. In Pvp/WvW/PvE people will just range you to death while you do your ballet spins. Even Engineer’s Tornado got a better buff then us.

- Fiery Greatsword was useless to begin with. It only had that fiery rush to make it a bit worthy placing as an Elite. I think that bundle Sticks deal more damage then this one. It doesn’t have a cleave with auto-attack, very low damage output on all skills, not even worth going there anymore.

So what Elite to choose?

Now, regarding the Vapour Form nerf. It wasn’t enough that our downed skills are TERRIBLE. Looong casting time, no beneficial effects, the only thing we could’ve done was gone into a 3second Invulnerability and try to go to a safe spot. Now with 2000 seconds of Immobilization cast by every single player we can’t do even that. While other professions have push-backs, stealths, healing symbols, reviving pets we have NOTHING now.

Next time when you try to adjust our skills, please start by buffing up the core of Elementalists to be in the line with the rest before you take down OP skills.

To begin with you didn’t even touch Glyph of Elemental Power the most useless Glyph out there. Not to mention made our Downed skills more in the line with other professions.
And now I hear Rangers get this ultra-speed projectile attacks? What about our Staves ANet? What about our Staves? Earth auto is useless just like FGS now.

Eles need a signet elite IMO. I hate passive crap but I think these changes open us up to some new skills.

Tornado and FGS trail needed some changes.

Mbelch.9028:

Eles need a signet elite IMO. I hate passive crap but I think these changes open us up to some new skills.

Tornado and FGS trail needed some changes.

With the uselessness of our Elites I’m more and more open for a 4th Utility Slot. Kitten those Elites! They’re just a waste of space and skill points.

FGS is still the best Elite for PvE and WvW (roaming)

And FGS will still be one of the best PvE elites still, but in line with the other professions elites.

I use Norn elite. Kitten the others.

Azzer.8137:

FGS is still the best Elite for PvE and WvW (roaming)

And FGS will still be one of the best PvE elites still, but in line with the other professions elites.

Explain to me how it’s the best. How is FGS better then any Ele rotation? Without valid arguments this is just like saying the sea is blue.

Mbelch.9028:

I use Norn elite. Kitten the others.

Norn getting nerfed as well.

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

Azzer.8137:

FGS is still the best Elite for PvE and WvW (roaming)

And FGS will still be one of the best PvE elites still, but in line with the other professions elites.

Explain to me how it’s the best. How is FGS better then any Ele rotation? Without valid arguments this is just like saying the sea is blue.

FGS is pretty much mandatory when WvW roaming, as an escape tool. Without it, pretty much any decent Warrior, Thief, or even Ranger can catch up to you.

As for Tornado, that usage was pretty ridiculous.

I’m not sure what you’re complaining about on Vapour form, since they only changed the animation, lol. And you really shouldn’t complain about downed skills. They’re all useful in certain situations.

vapor form just got a visual update, clam down, still same effect…

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

- Tornado is now completely useless. In Pvp/WvW/PvE people will just range you to death while you do your ballet spins. Even Engineer’s Tornado got a better buff then us.

Engineer and Ele Tornado are the same.

FGS nerf was required in PvE, it was just ridiculous. Now finally Eles can show their true potential as a dps mage, rather than a FGS delivery boy …

Dirame.8521:

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

- Tornado is now completely useless. In Pvp/WvW/PvE people will just range you to death while you do your ballet spins. Even Engineer’s Tornado got a better buff then us.

Engineer and Ele Tornado are the same.

Read upcoming patch notes. Engi elite is getting improvments. Whirl finishers, further going damage bolts if i heard correctly, and lightning field.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Read upcoming patch notes. Engi elite is getting improvments. Whirl finishers, further going damage bolts if i heard correctly, and lightning field.

Both versions of tornado are going to become a lightning field.

Wyrden.4713:

vapor form just got a visual update, clam down, still same effect…

You didn’t pay attention. They’re making it so that cc’s work under Vapour Form which they don’t now. Now you’re immune to all damage just like Mist Form.

It may depend on what sequence skills the elementals are going to get. If they are somewhat supportive or bursty enough it can be decent. Other than that, there are still racial elites. For example, there is no mention of Bear Form and Snow Leopard Form rush skills being nerfed, so you can use them to burst down the same way you did with FGS. Anything other than a pet elite – except hounds maybe – can be used as elite elementals are probably superior to per elites.

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

Wyrden.4713:

vapor form just got a visual update, clam down, still same effect…

You didn’t pay attention. They’re making it so that cc’s work under Vapour Form which they don’t now. Now you’re immune to all damage just like Mist Form.

Its always been like that most cc is not unblockable and would simply miss vapour but the unblockable cc and dmg would always of gone though it. That why when you say went vapor you would get evasion for your daily because you where getting 100% dodges roll effect but you cant dodge though lines.

Other then that tornado needed to be fixed so it can be buff for its own effect and not just a 3 sec window for one spell to do a lot of dmg on a 150 sec cd. FGS killed any type of real pve and made it into a push the boss in the a way and kill them.

The buffs on all the G.M. are all good and show that we may see some more ICD get swapped over to this system i realy want to see glfy of ele power get this but that maybe too much to ask for.

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

Mbelch.9028:

I use Norn elite. Kitten the others.

Norn getting nerfed as well.

How and when.

Mbelch.9028:

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

Mbelch.9028:

I use Norn elite. Kitten the others.

Norn getting nerfed as well.

How and when.

Norn Elite Forms won’t being the same either. (taken from a developer’s chat during twitch stream)

They sure as kitten better not nerf Snow Leopard. I will be sad. But it does grant stealth to classes who shouldn’t have it.

Relevant link http://kotaku.com/how-to-balance-an-rpg-1625516832

Feel free to scroll down to the “Take Out The Trash”

They didn’t nerf Vapor Form. It’s always been affected by unblockable CC (such as Line of Warding, Unsteady Ground, Static Cage). They simply updated its visual effect so that it’s more apparent that Vapor Form and Mist Form are two different skills (since Mist Form is NOT affected by unblockable CC).

Neko.9021:

They didn’t nerf Vapor Form. It’s always been affected by unblockable CC (such as Line of Warding, Unsteady Ground, Static Cage). They simply updated its visual effect so that it’s more apparent that Vapor Form and Mist Form are two different skills (since Mist Form is NOT affected by unblockable CC).

Yeah I realize this and I’m glad it’s not getting any more nerfs. I just wish it could not go thru portals.

Swim.6830:

Relevant link http://kotaku.com/how-to-balance-an-rpg-1625516832

Feel free to scroll down to the “Take Out The Trash”

To be fair anet have been steadily buffing the worst skills, eventually they might be good.

emikochan.8504:

Swim.6830:

Relevant link http://kotaku.com/how-to-balance-an-rpg-1625516832

Feel free to scroll down to the “Take Out The Trash”

To be fair anet have been steadily buffing the worst skills, eventually they might be good.

they need to buff them so strong that the numbers are op on it like icebow, because the concept of them is so flawed that its not worth taking unless its somehow incredible numbers on it. glyph of storms wont see play until the cooldown is 30secs or lower and the dmg on the fire and air one are about the same as meteors or icebow 4.

Azzer.8137:

FGS is still the best Elite for PvE and WvW (roaming)

And FGS will still be one of the best PvE elites still, but in line with the other professions elites.

Frankly i would trade them with ANY profession or with any other non elite.
If you say warrior banner or signet are in line with elementalist elites you have a really strange idea of balancing possibly the same as anet.

And anet proved many times how bad they are at balancing.

Elites are anyway pretty stupid in this game tbh. You just got degradated to “engi elite tier”. Seriously elites need more love. I mean some skills are just “ok” but they do not feel like elite. And others are really just bad. I hope they change that …

Anyone got a link to whatever information this thread’s discussion is based on? I think I’m in the dark here…

May i have supply crate if you think engi elites are bad?

LordByron.8369:

May i have supply crate if you think engi elites are bad?

Supply crate is strong in 1 vs 1 against opponents, who don’t know how to fight an engineer. I have never lost 1 vs 1 when I have been supply crated. Supply crate is weak in pve and it’s long cooldown (180 s) makes me want to have static field (40 s cooldown) instead in WvWvW zerg situations.

Engineer indeed has one of the worst profession elites of this game: mortar. They should revamp its #1-5 skills and turn into elite kit.

After the patch we will know better if glyph of elementals is worthy as an elite. It might be useful on small scale. Conjure Fiery Greatsword will surely still be used by the roamers, for the superb mobility it offers.

Supply crate is strong in small scale figths.
Nothing more to add.

Tornado without meteor is worse than mortar for WWW.

Conjure fiery GS for WWW:
You can choose between many usable racial elites that push your damage.
Or you can equip an elite to flee (considering the cast time you even need to start fleeing quite fast) once in 3 minutes :|

It doesn t work to jump in and out of battle at will its only to flee once and for all.
And donest solve the problem of staing in fight range with your opponents because locking you out of your skills makes it useless for that.

We will be left with a situational 1VS1 elite.
And a HUGE damage nerf in zergs.

Along that we will receive other really nice nerfs at dagger fire 2/staff fire 4, and vaporform that is already bugged btw.

But as i said before after 2 yuears we can have an idea on anet competence about balancing i believe.
Even beginners can see huge mistakes they do every patch, yet they go on ignoring warning from the playerbase and then try damage control with CDI that won t change anything

The issue is they are infact boonsmithering 2 elites (no even lightning rod won t make it viable) without any compensation.

Just give us an elite to recharge a single skill 5 every 3 minutes with 1 sec cast at least.

The fact that the ele has lackluster elites is a part of the balance tbh. You shouldn’t feel entitled to something as strong as supply crate just because engi has one. A profession is balanced as a whole. Doesn’t mean all elites should be equal.

The reason engi has one of the strongest elites and one of the strongest healing skills is to make up for their lack of traditional utilities, since they’re forced to run kits most of the time.

The reason ele has average utilities and bad elites is because we have 20 weapon skills at any given time.

The buff to glyph of elementals is actually HUGE for pvp. An on-demand AoE 6.7K heal? Let that sink in for a moment.

Gokil.2543:

The fact that the ele has lackluster elites is a part of the balance tbh. You shouldn’t feel entitled to something as strong as supply crate just because engi has one. A profession is balanced as a whole. Doesn’t mean all elites should be equal.

The reason engi has such one of the strongest elites and one of the strongest healing skills is to make up for their lack of traditional utilities, since they’re forced to run kits most of the time.

The reason ele has average utilities and bad elites is because we have 20 weapon skills at any given time.

The buff to glyph of elementals is actually HUGE for pvp. An on-demand AoE 6.7K heal? Let that sink in for a moment.

I’m sorry but the 20 skills argument doesn’t work here. Those 20 skills are already balanced in their own right to compensate for the 10 of other classes (MUCH higher cooldowns, lackluster in many cases including damage for some skills, choreographed and easy to dodge). It has been said over and over in the Ele forum.

In GW, an Elite was a kittening ELITE and kitten happened!

A utility has to be something beneficial in some way, and if not all utilities are on the same level – something has gone wrong in balancing.

Yes classes should be different and excel in different things as a WHOLE, not in micromanagement.

Swim.6830:

Gokil.2543:

The fact that the ele has lackluster elites is a part of the balance tbh. You shouldn’t feel entitled to something as strong as supply crate just because engi has one. A profession is balanced as a whole. Doesn’t mean all elites should be equal.

The reason engi has such one of the strongest elites and one of the strongest healing skills is to make up for their lack of traditional utilities, since they’re forced to run kits most of the time.

The reason ele has average utilities and bad elites is because we have 20 weapon skills at any given time.

The buff to glyph of elementals is actually HUGE for pvp. An on-demand AoE 6.7K heal? Let that sink in for a moment.

I’m sorry but the 20 skills argument doesn’t work here. Those 20 skills are already balanced in their own right to compensate for the 10 of other classes (MUCH higher cooldowns, lackluster in many cases including damage for some skills, choreographed and easy to dodge). It has been said over and over in the Ele forum.

In GW, an Elite was a kittening ELITE and kitten happened!

A utility has to be something beneficial in some way, and if not all utilities are on the same level – something has gone wrong in balancing.

Yes classes should be different and excel in different things as a WHOLE, not in micromanagement.

Think about that for a second. All classes are different on so many levels. Base stats, profession mechanics,… There is no reason all elites and utilities should be created equal. You don’t just give a necromancer ‘Stand Your Ground’, or a warrior blink, you don’t give mesmer a healing signet and you don’t give an ele a supply crate. It just doesn’t work that way. The 20 skill argument is in fact a real argument. Just as the kit argument is real.

Gokil.2543:

Swim.6830:

Gokil.2543:

The fact that the ele has lackluster elites is a part of the balance tbh. You shouldn’t feel entitled to something as strong as supply crate just because engi has one. A profession is balanced as a whole. Doesn’t mean all elites should be equal.

The reason engi has such one of the strongest elites and one of the strongest healing skills is to make up for their lack of traditional utilities, since they’re forced to run kits most of the time.

The reason ele has average utilities and bad elites is because we have 20 weapon skills at any given time.

The buff to glyph of elementals is actually HUGE for pvp. An on-demand AoE 6.7K heal? Let that sink in for a moment.

I’m sorry but the 20 skills argument doesn’t work here. Those 20 skills are already balanced in their own right to compensate for the 10 of other classes (MUCH higher cooldowns, lackluster in many cases including damage for some skills, choreographed and easy to dodge). It has been said over and over in the Ele forum.

In GW, an Elite was a kittening ELITE and kitten happened!

A utility has to be something beneficial in some way, and if not all utilities are on the same level – something has gone wrong in balancing.

Yes classes should be different and excel in different things as a WHOLE, not in micromanagement.

Think about that for a second. All classes are different on so many levels. Base stats, profession mechanics,… There is no reason all elites and utilities should be created equal. You don’t just give a necromancer ‘Stand Your Ground’, or a warrior blink, you don’t give mesmer a healing signet and you don’t give an ele a supply crate. It just doesn’t work that way. The 20 skill argument is in fact a real argument. Just as the kit argument is real.

Saying it’s a real argument doesn’t make it so, I already explained how they balanced those abilities as have countless other people on this forum.

I never said they should be created equal. They should be created as an equal power equivalent to what other classes have and should be equal for the class itself (one utility for Ele shouldn’t be considered crap compared to another for Ele)

Swim.6830:

Gokil.2543:

Swim.6830:

Gokil.2543:

The fact that the ele has lackluster elites is a part of the balance tbh. You shouldn’t feel entitled to something as strong as supply crate just because engi has one. A profession is balanced as a whole. Doesn’t mean all elites should be equal.

The reason engi has such one of the strongest elites and one of the strongest healing skills is to make up for their lack of traditional utilities, since they’re forced to run kits most of the time.

The reason ele has average utilities and bad elites is because we have 20 weapon skills at any given time.

The buff to glyph of elementals is actually HUGE for pvp. An on-demand AoE 6.7K heal? Let that sink in for a moment.

I’m sorry but the 20 skills argument doesn’t work here. Those 20 skills are already balanced in their own right to compensate for the 10 of other classes (MUCH higher cooldowns, lackluster in many cases including damage for some skills, choreographed and easy to dodge). It has been said over and over in the Ele forum.

In GW, an Elite was a kittening ELITE and kitten happened!

A utility has to be something beneficial in some way, and if not all utilities are on the same level – something has gone wrong in balancing.

Yes classes should be different and excel in different things as a WHOLE, not in micromanagement.

Think about that for a second. All classes are different on so many levels. Base stats, profession mechanics,… There is no reason all elites and utilities should be created equal. You don’t just give a necromancer ‘Stand Your Ground’, or a warrior blink, you don’t give mesmer a healing signet and you don’t give an ele a supply crate. It just doesn’t work that way. The 20 skill argument is in fact a real argument. Just as the kit argument is real.

Saying it’s a real argument doesn’t make it so, I already explained how they balanced those abilities as have countless other people on this forum.

I never said they should be created equal. They should be created as an equal power equivalent to what other classes have and should be equal for the class itself (one utility for Ele shouldn’t be considered crap compared to another for Ele)

But saying it’s not a real argument does?

Obviously all ele utilities should be equal, I’m just saying not all utilities/healing skills/elites should be equal across all professions.

Gokil.2543:

Swim.6830:

Gokil.2543:

Swim.6830:

Gokil.2543:

The fact that the ele has lackluster elites is a part of the balance tbh. You shouldn’t feel entitled to something as strong as supply crate just because engi has one. A profession is balanced as a whole. Doesn’t mean all elites should be equal.

The reason engi has such one of the strongest elites and one of the strongest healing skills is to make up for their lack of traditional utilities, since they’re forced to run kits most of the time.

The reason ele has average utilities and bad elites is because we have 20 weapon skills at any given time.

The buff to glyph of elementals is actually HUGE for pvp. An on-demand AoE 6.7K heal? Let that sink in for a moment.

I’m sorry but the 20 skills argument doesn’t work here. Those 20 skills are already balanced in their own right to compensate for the 10 of other classes (MUCH higher cooldowns, lackluster in many cases including damage for some skills, choreographed and easy to dodge). It has been said over and over in the Ele forum.

In GW, an Elite was a kittening ELITE and kitten happened!

A utility has to be something beneficial in some way, and if not all utilities are on the same level – something has gone wrong in balancing.

Yes classes should be different and excel in different things as a WHOLE, not in micromanagement.

Think about that for a second. All classes are different on so many levels. Base stats, profession mechanics,… There is no reason all elites and utilities should be created equal. You don’t just give a necromancer ‘Stand Your Ground’, or a warrior blink, you don’t give mesmer a healing signet and you don’t give an ele a supply crate. It just doesn’t work that way. The 20 skill argument is in fact a real argument. Just as the kit argument is real.

Saying it’s a real argument doesn’t make it so, I already explained how they balanced those abilities as have countless other people on this forum.

I never said they should be created equal. They should be created as an equal power equivalent to what other classes have and should be equal for the class itself (one utility for Ele shouldn’t be considered crap compared to another for Ele)

But saying it’s not a real argument does?

Obviously all ele utilities should be equal, I’m just saying not all utilities/healing skills/elites should be equal across all professions.

Already explained why…