Guild Wars 2

Sarelm.8317:

You’re a cloth class. I main a mesmer and the only direct damage utility skill we CAN get is mantra of pain. If you don’t use utility skills for escapes and.. Well, utility, then I don’t know what else they’re for. “Good” doesn’t allow thieves to teleport to you and HS has a pretty short range compared to other leap skills. If you can’t get out of it with mist form or blink then there’s a bug worth reporting. As for “needing” that many. I’d say you at least need one. If that isn’t enough I can go through the list.
Staff -fire -burning retreat
Staff -Water – AOE chill area
Staff -Air -Ring of stun and a blowback
Staff -Earth -Snare and cripple.
Dagger MH -Fire -Burning charge move.
Dagger MH -Water -Another aoe chill
Dagger MH -Air -Aura of Stun
Dagger OH -Water -Chill Aura
Dagger OH -Air -Blowback
Dagger OH -Earth -Knockdown
Focus -Water -Daze
Focus -Air -Knockdown
Focus -Earth -Invincibility

Now Chill and Cripple won’t get you home free on their own but combined with just one cantrip like mist form or blink should put enough distance between you and the thief to cause problems for them.

Perhaps you should play an Elementalist before coming in here then?

Staff -fire -burning retreat -> Nice
Staff -Water – AOE chill area -> Barely any duration, making it pretty useless
Staff -Air -Ring of stun and a blowback -> Blowback misses more often than it hits, stun is only on the border of the ring and due to startup animation easily dodged.
Staff -Earth -Snare and cripple. Snare that just like blowback misses more often than it hits (a small sidestep avoids these already, don’t even need to dodge) and that cripple is a very small line with again start up duration so easy to dodge.
Dagger MH -Fire -Burning charge move. Eh to use this as gap opener you need to turn your back on the thief. Here’s a hint. NEVER TURN YOUR BACK ON A THIEF. Extra dmg when hitting from behind traits will kick you hard. Not to mention I don’t think this would even get you out of HS leap range.
Dagger MH -Water -Another aoe chill -> With very very small range. I’m not sure if I ever chilled someone with that really.
Dagger MH -Air -Aura of Stun -> Nice, to bad it activates after you get hit and therefore still get hurt. Effective against Pistol Whip, not so much against something like HS.
Dagger OH -Water -Chill Aura -> Well it chills when you get hit. Problem is just that a Thief can keep leaping at you and thus doesn’t care that he’s slowed, since he’s already in range anyway.
Dagger OH -Air -Blowback -> With 40s cooldown and rather close range, nice otherwise though.
Dagger OH -Earth -Knockdown -> This is one of the few great CCs we have, no comment on it.
Focus -Water -Daze -> That hangs in the air for an hour and therefore almost never hits.
Focus -Air -Knockdown -> Well it does hit more often than staff blowback.
Focus -Earth -Invincibility -> This one is actually good.

I’m also amused how you failed to mention the one good getaway skill we really got. Ride the Lightning. Deselect your target, turn around (yes in this case you can do this even on a Thief since you get loads of distance) and hit RTL. Then pray you don’t get stuck.

No offense but Elementalists got lowest survivability and toughness and I’ve seen it happen more than once that a glass cannonish Thief just spikes one down with 15k damage. Heck few days ago I saw a screenie in the sPvP forum Thief (glass cannon) vs Necro (with quite a bit of toughness). Went something like this: Steal 5k dmg Backstab 13k, necro dead. You can totally react against a combo that basically oneshots you. Totally.

So many arguments why ele doesn’t suck are quite bad. You have this and that skill, you have utilities and whatnot, you can dodge…oh sure, like all the tools are up 100%, and god forbid you’d have something on cooldown, or if you don’t predict the future and see the thief teleporting to you or that warrior that came behind you and bullrushed you, I totally agree that 1 single mistake must cost you your life, it’s a harsh world out there, must not get spoiled!

And elementalist, being versatile as it is, it has so many good options for traits that no build is the same, makes building an ele spec so much fun, because everything is viable (from traits to weapons sets).

And the damage being half lower than other professions is actually a good way to play, because you learn to use CC and heals and dodges even on mobs, it prepares you!

And you can also play with combofields and might stacking, so much fun to see what 20+ might does…it brings your damage to other classes level woo. Any other class with 20 might would melt you in a second, but that’s beside the point.

Elementalists, so fun untill you know what other classes are capable of. Then it just becomes a sad excuse of a class. Except for WvW, I like em there.

Novalight.7568:

So many arguments why ele doesn’t suck are quite bad. You have this and that skill, you have utilities and whatnot, you can dodge…oh sure, like all the tools are up 100%, and god forbid you’d have something on cooldown, or if you don’t predict the future and see the thief teleporting to you or that warrior that came behind you and bullrushed you, I totally agree that 1 single mistake must cost you your life, it’s a harsh world out there, must not get spoiled!

Lame excuse. An enemy with
20 might can’t kill an Elementalist if he’s downed and
Paralyzed all the time.

Now let’s see if you can find the hidden message.

Freakiie.8940:

Sarelm.8317:

You’re a cloth class. I main a mesmer and the only direct damage utility skill we CAN get is mantra of pain. If you don’t use utility skills for escapes and.. Well, utility, then I don’t know what else they’re for. “Good” doesn’t allow thieves to teleport to you and HS has a pretty short range compared to other leap skills. If you can’t get out of it with mist form or blink then there’s a bug worth reporting. As for “needing” that many. I’d say you at least need one. If that isn’t enough I can go through the list.
Staff -fire -burning retreat
Staff -Water – AOE chill area
Staff -Air -Ring of stun and a blowback
Staff -Earth -Snare and cripple.
Dagger MH -Fire -Burning charge move.
Dagger MH -Water -Another aoe chill
Dagger MH -Air -Aura of Stun
Dagger OH -Water -Chill Aura
Dagger OH -Air -Blowback
Dagger OH -Earth -Knockdown
Focus -Water -Daze
Focus -Air -Knockdown
Focus -Earth -Invincibility

Now Chill and Cripple won’t get you home free on their own but combined with just one cantrip like mist form or blink should put enough distance between you and the thief to cause problems for them.

Perhaps you should play an Elementalist before coming in here then?

Staff -fire -burning retreat -> Nice
Staff -Water – AOE chill area -> Barely any duration, making it pretty useless
Staff -Air -Ring of stun and a blowback -> Blowback misses more often than it hits, stun is only on the border of the ring and due to startup animation easily dodged.
Staff -Earth -Snare and cripple. Snare that just like blowback misses more often than it hits (a small sidestep avoids these already, don’t even need to dodge) and that cripple is a very small line with again start up duration so easy to dodge.
Dagger MH -Fire -Burning charge move. Eh to use this as gap opener you need to turn your back on the thief. Here’s a hint. NEVER TURN YOUR BACK ON A THIEF. Extra dmg when hitting from behind traits will kick you hard. Not to mention I don’t think this would even get you out of HS leap range.
Dagger MH -Water -Another aoe chill -> With very very small range. I’m not sure if I ever chilled someone with that really.
Dagger MH -Air -Aura of Stun -> Nice, to bad it activates after you get hit and therefore still get hurt. Effective against Pistol Whip, not so much against something like HS.
Dagger OH -Water -Chill Aura -> Well it chills when you get hit. Problem is just that a Thief can keep leaping at you and thus doesn’t care that he’s slowed, since he’s already in range anyway.
Dagger OH -Air -Blowback -> With 40s cooldown and rather close range, nice otherwise though.
Dagger OH -Earth -Knockdown -> This is one of the few great CCs we have, no comment on it.
Focus -Water -Daze -> That hangs in the air for an hour and therefore almost never hits.
Focus -Air -Knockdown -> Well it does hit more often than staff blowback.
Focus -Earth -Invincibility -> This one is actually good.

I’m also amused how you failed to mention the one good getaway skill we really got. Ride the Lightning. Deselect your target, turn around (yes in this case you can do this even on a Thief since you get loads of distance) and hit RTL. Then pray you don’t get stuck.

No offense but Elementalists got lowest survivability and toughness and I’ve seen it happen more than once that a glass cannonish Thief just spikes one down with 15k damage. Heck few days ago I saw a screenie in the sPvP forum Thief (glass cannon) vs Necro (with quite a bit of toughness). Went something like this: Steal 5k dmg Backstab 13k, necro dead. You can totally react against a combo that basically oneshots you. Totally.

My elementalist is level 30. I use them more in WvW and I find the leveling has been slow there. I said my “Main” was mesmer which simply means the first character I got to 80. And I mentioned mesmer more importantly because it’s considered the most OP class in sPvP. Imagine that. The most “OP” class doesn’t have a single damage skill in their utility slots 90% of the time. We have 5 character slots, and I use ALL of them. I didn’t mention ride the lightning because I find it very tempermental. Even when I’m not targetting something it tends to find the closest target and throws you at it anyways. I did mention that chill would not stop them on its own, but in combination with mist form it should do the job just fine. I won’t deny that elementalist has the least survivability but it has the strongest base powers in the game to make up for it. Even after the nerfs.
http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/
Assuming these numbers are right, look at their auto attacks even compared to melee weapons of other classes.
Staff #1 skill fire attune = 570 base dmg.
Warrior 2H sword #1 skill = 370 base dmg.

Please remember, as with any of the classes, the idea was never to survive “longer” than other classes. It is to survive until you kill them. And by the numbers elementalists should still kill other players faster than any other class. Even heartseeker doesn’t outdamage that #1 staff skill until you are below 25% ( http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker ) Is it more difficult than most other classes? Sure, I’ll agree with that. But that doesn’t make it impossible anymore than it makes Explorable mode unplayable for being more difficult than Story mode.

Amnon.4769:

@Vaerah
Elementalist is not a “Mage”. Heck, it’s more a Melee class than ranged anyway.
You want a “Mage” get a Necro.

I play: Ele, necro, warrior, ranger.

Of those, warrior certainly is not a ranged class (I still shoot stuff with gun and bow to death just fine including champs).
Ranger, well the name kinda gives it out. Yet it’s quite durable melee speaking.
My necro is S/D condition build. Lots of health, sensible damage (well, for a GW2 ranged class that is), got some nice abilities, can actually kill stuff by facetanking it.
Elementalist: S/D I have gear for both condition and DD spec. Less health, “like a mage would have”, ability do use staff and scepter “like a mage would do”, use of elements (including fire, frost and arcane, like WoW mages do), strong CC like suitably specced mages usually come with. Absence of persistent pets, like mages do.
I mean, I played Mage since D&D, Baldur’s Gate, WoW, Warhammer Online and others and Elementalist certainly looks like a mage.
One element every previous mage I played had, was the strong (to insane, for the Sorceress) amound of DPS capabilities to pay off for the lowest health pool and armor.

Now, even going suicidal D/D, GW2 elementalist is still NOT a DPS powerhouse. If it was a melee class like you say, his range would be identical to my warrior and his DPS would be comparable. Neither of the two applies.

So I stand to my opinion that elementalist is a ranged class. It’s main curse is they made it an “utility class” and utility classes are often the joke of a MMO (Warhammer engineer / Magus come to mind). Why? Because the other classes all bring in some of their utility, a group of 3-4 other classes will collectively provide an equivalent amount of utility while not giving up on raw damage.

I am sorry, Ele needs an high DPS build, even if true glass cannon. The most flexible class with the most options has to have… well… options.

Amnon.4769:

@Vaerah.4907
Well tell you what, you stand your ground that Ele is a ranged class and get slaughtered, while I’ll treat it like a melee class and have fun with it.

In the meanwhile, I wrote you a song – it’s to the tune of the Beatles’ “Let it be”, starting with the chorus:

L 2 P, L 2 P, L 2 P, ohhhh L 2 P.
There will be an answer: L 2 P.
L 2 P, L 2 P… L 2 P-eeeeeehhhhh, L 2 P.
Whisper words of wisdom: L 2 P.

1) You never seen me play so keep your conjectures for yourself.
2) Where did I mention I get slaugthered? Right, nowhere!
3) I am going to treat elementalist as melee class the day they lose ability to use scepter and staff.
In the mean time you can view my PvP videos I made for my past MMOs, I suppose you are going to post your own PvP videos for everyone else to worship your unsurpassable capability.

disclaimer: I don’t do Spvp since i find it boring but I do solo a lot in WvW and I am only level 66 with crappy 60 rare armor.

I get into a lot of 1v1s and 2v1s againt mainly 80s and I use a scepter and dagger I can honestly say the ele’s only real weakness is their extremely Low hp. Other than that, I run into zergs, i kick level 80 butt (maybe they are bad 80s I don’t know) but i m in general whooping butt. The only real time I ever meet my downfall is when I get zerg and/or when i forget to cancel my target and use ride the lighting back into the zerg.

But honestly, I think the ele requires a high skill cap. I know for sure that I cant play it like I do my ranger or like I do any mage class in other games, because each attunement change requires me to think ahead, which pretty much requires some twitch and memorization.

Again, not claiming to be a pro, just saying based on my experience the hp and the bugs are the ele main problem or at least those that I have encountered.

Vaerah.4907:

In the mean time you can view my PvP videos I made for my past MMOs, I suppose you are going to post your own PvP videos for everyone else to worship your unsurpassable capability.

Because skill in past MMOs makes you good at this one. Just like being good at Poker makes you awesome at Chess.

Vaerah, you know what, I don’t care any more. Whine all you want, cry to change the class for whatever arbitrary reasons. I’m enjoying it. People who are actually playing the game – are enjoying it. Perhaps I will record a video of me singing the L2P song.

And seriously, you think I’m somehow impressed by the fact you made PvP videos in other games!? Dear lord, I’m soooooooo intimidated. I could 1-up that in a heartbeat, but that’s not the kind of person I am.

Sarelm.8317:

Vaerah.4907:

In the mean time you can view my PvP videos I made for my past MMOs, I suppose you are going to post your own PvP videos for everyone else to worship your unsurpassable capability.

Because skill in past MMOs makes you good at this one. Just like being good at Poker makes you awesome at Chess.

Well I can prove I was “good enough” in past games while he has yet to prove anything in here beyond he’s a troll.

Amnon.4769:

Vaerah, you know what, I don’t care any more. Whine all you want, cry to change the class for whatever arbitrary reasons. I’m enjoying it. People who are actually playing the game – are enjoying it. Perhaps I will record a video of me singing the L2P song.

And seriously, you think I’m somehow impressed by the fact you made PvP videos in other games!? Dear lord, I’m soooooooo intimidated. I could 1-up that in a heartbeat, but that’s not the kind of person I am.

Whine all you want my *.

It’s not whining saying elementalist is a RANGED class while you say it does not. PERIOD.

squiggit.2357:

Thieves and Rangers seem to be the only people who seem to actually enjoy their classes to some extent.

Rangers have issues with their pets. The class mechanic is iffy (F2), and they’re dumb as rocks – if you jump down a cliff, the pet runs around the long way to you, dragging a chain of mobs.

Vaerah.4907:

Well I can prove I was “good enough” in past games while he has yet to prove anything in here beyond he’s a troll.

“I can prove”
“He has yet to prove”

See, the funny thing is, you have yet to prove anything yourself, either. The difference between us, is that I’m not here to prove anything. I’m here because I like this class the way it is, and I don’t want crybaby voices being the only ones ANet sees if they look over the forums.

I don’t want to be dragged into a 1-up contest with you, because I’m not here to embarrass you. I’m here to make my voice heard that Elementalist is fine the way it was designed, by this game’s excellent designers.

Freakiie.8940:

Staff -Water – AOE chill area -> Barely any duration, making it pretty useless

Anyone calling 12s (6×2s) chilling applied over an area “pretty useless” has an opinion that is “pretty useless”.

Amnon.4769:

I’m here because I like this class the way it is, and I don’t want crybaby voices being the only ones ANet sees if they look over the forums.

I don’t want to be dragged into a 1-up contest with you, because I’m not here to embarrass you. I’m here to make my voice heard that Elementalist is fine the way it was designed, by this game’s excellent designers.

Even a developer admitted there are shortcomings in i.e. how the condition gear is designed (i.e. it’s available with mixed stats that don’t benefit it at best).

I am glad you happened to find the class exactly as you want.
I also do just fine in my build, even if they implemented more DPS in fire/air I would not switch to it. But it’d be good if the option to be very competitive for any choice was actually here.
I am also fine with the micro-management, but being difficult <> being slow and I find ele to be the slowest of the classes I play (even when not using earth / water). Even slower than my condition – survivalist build necro.
In about 2 seconds I have used all the cooldowns of a given attunement (even if usually I leave the 5th skill unused and ready for burst / finisher).
What then? Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooring and (most attunements) ineffective auto attack, while both CDs and attunments slowly recycle. Actually I went earth spec exactly because the autoattack allows for an awesome kiting while stacking massive bleeds so it’s boring but effective.

Ahem…. I don’t mean to spoil the trollfest in here, but compared to what the elementalist was capable of in GW1 all of this is just a tiny speck on the windshield.

Why do people think the whole game is just PvP or WvW? I’ve yet to play a game in PvP or WvW.

Now to get back on track – this whole discussion is a worthless piece of blabber talk. The OP has his opinion and so do you.

With all the topics in this section only one thing sparks out:
1. Elementalists are pale creatures that deserve nothing but death – clearly stated by ArenaNet.
2. Elementalists are broken in ALL cases – the one semi-half working build you can conjure up gets demolished if you make even a single mistake.
3. Elementalists have a life outside PvP and WvW and your room… err pardon basement.
4. Having four auras a a bunch of weapons with different skills doesn’t make this class anywhere near vibrant as it used to be IN THE GOOD OLD GAME THEY DESTROYED.

So again please let this miserable class die and make a mockery of all things GuildWars – the new World of Warcraft of simpletons and grinders.

And if even one of my words is wrong then do please SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT ArenaNet, I’d love to see your comment on my thoughts and your disgrace towards this once beautiful class.

Lightning flash can escape frenzy + hundred blades even when you are stunned…just saying.

The issue isn’t that the class is underpowered. The class is broken. Go look at all the broken skills. Fix the broken and I’m sure we’d be fine.

Oghier.7419:

Anlyon.8375:

Between the Betas and release i’ve got almost 300 hours on my ele.

I pay attention to your posts, as you clearly know your business. However, you should consider that the sheer volume of time you have put into this overly complex class may render your opinion somewhat less useful for players who are more casual. I submit that the vast majority of players would be more effective playing almost any other class, in almost any situation.

It’s not like there’s some pot of gold at the end of the elementalist learning curve. I think it’s more of a low floor than a high ceiling.

Thats a totally valid point, and honestly, I agree.

Unfortunately, the fix to make it easier for more casual players would probably result in good players (of which im probably not) being too powerful.

That said, i think reworking the traits to be more effective is probably the best option at the moment….especially something in earth to help us take less damage (Strength of Stone = 10% reduced damage?)

The only thing I want to add is that if you’re getting mauled by a warrior with HB, you screwed up. Dodging the charge they HAVE to land to get off HB in it’s duration is about the easiest thing you can do, aside from just walking out of it when they try and use it w/ charge down.

I have no trouble with GS warriors, but the ones with shields do tend to thwack me about.

Thief really isn’t that strong in sPvP except for venom share because they offer VERY little support otherwise. Sure, they can spike newbs easily who don’t know that stealth lasts only 3 seconds AND there is collision detection so you can just backpeddle to not get backstabbed for full damage. Save your immobilizes/mistform for when they pop haste to use HS (though most don’t do this anymore since the justifiable HS nerf).

Eles freaking SHINE in proper group pvp play… they are up there as the best support class that can still do good damage. Having said that, I personally feel that mesmers and guardians are VERY powerful in sPvP, moreso than other classes (Warriors would be, but we all see sokittenmany of them that we’ve gotten used to what they do and can counter it).

We do not need “I quit” threads on this forum.