Guild Wars 2

I quite like this skill but to me for an elite it is rather lackluster and i think with a few changes it could be improved

1) Stats – Make them have increased stats based on the elementalist
2) Cast time – Reduce it 3/4 of a second or 1second at most
3) Cool down – Have it start the moment that it is summoned not when it dies
4) Duration – Remove the 60second duration
5) Health – Make them regain health outside of combat (like Flesh Golem)

I think rather than the elementals “best” attack being automatic i think it would be better if it was like Flesh Golem and that it replaced the Elite slot with the skill and it uses it when we want them to.

Stats wise they should be the same as they are now for Health and Toughness but different stats increased depending on the Elemental summoned:

Fire: Increased Power/Attack Power and Precision
Water: Increased Healing Power and Boon Duration
Air: Increased Crit Damage and Boon Duration
Earth: Increased Vitality and Toughness

Also make it so that it uses its “best” attack when summoned but one that has 50% effectiveness and doesn’t put the main attack on cool down something like:

Fire = Casts “Lightening Strike” when summoned (random name for a fire attack lol)
Water = When summoned casts Cleansing Wave
Air Elemental = Casts “Mind Shock” on the currently selected target
Earth = Casts “Stomp” when summoned

That would be kinda OP especially for the earth ele that can tank anything in the game.
I’m all for ele buffs but this seems kinda too much-maybe just the manually usable skill .

In WvW who takes the elementals? looking at it from a WvW/STPvP point of view – it is VERY poor excuse of an Elite. Okay either the Duration removal or the cool down starting when it dies could be removed

The stats need to be increased to make them more of a threat.
Cast time is far to long as it stands

I do. They’re very useful but you gotta pick the right elemental for the job at hand. As for your suggestions, the stats suggestion is somewhat ok but the rest is pretty silly. The casting time is low enough (and lowering it wouldn’t change it). They do regenerate health outside combat (or maybe it’s just the Soothing Mist, but it’s still unneeded). Perma pets would require some serious rebalancing and rework (how would you change element types for example?)

Finally, the fact that the cooldown starts when it goes down means you’ll have less total cooldown if it gets destroyed prematurely. This makes it better than other cooldown summons. Your suggestion would make it worse.

Well the fact in WvW they are pretty much ignored anyway shows just how little of a threat they are. Sure i dont want them to be OVERPOWERED i just think they do need to be adjusted. To start with they could go the:

1) Stats buff
2) manual “best” attack button

and see what happens from there. I dont really like the elementals best attack being something they cast themselves, most of the time when it isnt even needed just to be wasted.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Well the fact in WvW they are pretty much ignored anyway shows just how little of a threat they are.

That doesn’t neccesarily mean they’re not much of a threat. I’m often surprised by how little people actually know about what the elementals. To be honest, even I sometimes get surprised by them. I only learned that fire elementals could cripple last month or so.

Sure i dont want them to be OVERPOWERED i just think they do need to be adjusted. To start with they could go the:

1) Stats buff
2) manual “best” attack button

and see what happens from there. I dont really like the elementals best attack being something they cast themselves, most of the time when it isnt even needed just to be wasted.

I can relate to that, but which ability would you pick? The elite ice elemental has both a chill field and a healing skill. The elite fire elemental has a fire storm and a projectile attack. Which would you consider to be ‘the main ability’?

As for the stats buff, I think I’d prefer stat scaling. That way you can make them more offensive or defensive based on your build.

The only thing I can think of improving is to make Fire Elemental at range, giving them ether Fireball or Lava Font, they’re too weird following people around and have no particular use against moving foes.
Air elemental is the only thing that work in range but since it has stun, it’s base damage is a lot lower then Fire.

The only who should stay at melee is Earth for tanking and Ice for healing. I don’t get how Embers get to be the improved versions of Fire Elemental and available to everyone while we’re stuck with a 1hit KOed FIre Ele

By stats buff, i meant to make them scale more on our stats, not just a flat increase. To me this “Elite” isnt really a an elite skill.

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

Air elemental is the only thing that work in range but since it has stun, it’s base damage is a lot lower then Fire.

Actually, I’ve tested them on target dummies recently and 2 air elementals are only slightly slower than 2 fire elementals in destroying said target dummy. Earth comes in 3rd. Water were the only ones that couldn’t defeat a target dummy before they were unsummoned. That was mostly due to the ice and water fields not dealing damage.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

To me this “Elite” isnt really a an elite skill.

Yet we get to pick between 4 summons that all do something different, one of them being a tank that can take hits better than most players. The versatility is what makes this glyph elite worthy in my book and I use it to great effect in pretty much every area of the game. But I suppose tastes differ.

ThiBash.5634:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

To me this “Elite” isnt really a an elite skill.

Yet we get to pick between 4 summons that all do something different, one of them being a tank that can take hits better than most players. The versatility is what makes this glyph elite worthy in my book and I use it to great effect in pretty much every area of the game. But I suppose tastes differ.

Fire – solid damage, easily melted.
Water – Meh, the fact you cant use the Heal yourself is rather annoying
Earth – Plenty of health, thats about it
Air – stuns every now and then

Nothing Elite about any of them. Just because we have a selection of less than average summons doesn’t make the skill itself better.

sorry, but with the 60 second limit, the only thing that would make this skill Elite worthy is to make it an arcane elemental whose spells change based on player attunement. and give a “on-command” skill that changes with player attunement. and then drop the 60 second timer.

flesh golem has a 60 second cooldown for a summons that stays until it dies, and has “on command” skill. guardian summons (spectral weapons) at least give a “on-command” skill as well. and of course mesmers get their “on command” shatters and rangers get their “on command” f2s.

I’d just like to have permanent uptime on the lesser version. Have it function like a Necro minion. Stays up as long as it’s equipped, goes on full cooldown when killed.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I quite like this skill but to me for an elite it is rather lackluster and i think with a few changes it could be improved

1) Stats – Make them have increased stats based on the elementalist
2) Cast time – Reduce it 3/4 of a second or 1second at most
3) Cool down – Have it start the moment that it is summoned not when it dies
4) Duration – Remove the 60second duration
5) Health – Make them regain health outside of combat (like Flesh Golem)

I think rather than the elementals “best” attack being automatic i think it would be better if it was like Flesh Golem and that it replaced the Elite slot with the skill and it uses it when we want them to.

Stats wise they should be the same as they are now for Health and Toughness but different stats increased depending on the Elemental summoned:

Fire: Increased Power/Attack Power and Precision
Water: Increased Healing Power and Boon Duration
Air: Increased Crit Damage and Boon Duration
Earth: Increased Vitality and Toughness

Also make it so that it uses its “best” attack when summoned but one that has 50% effectiveness and doesn’t put the main attack on cool down something like:

Fire = Casts “Lightening Strike” when summoned (random name for a fire attack lol)
Water = When summoned casts Cleansing Wave
Air Elemental = Casts “Mind Shock” on the currently selected target
Earth = Casts “Stomp” when summoned

I signed into the GW2 forums this evening to write #4 and #5 of this exact post. I personally feel that having access to 100% up time of at least the lesser elemental would be appropriate for the squishiest class. If there where considerations of making it a trait I would take it even if it was a grandmaster air trait (which totally screws up all of my builds).

Having a semi permanent companion (Example Flesh Golem) makes me feel like I am protected from stupid things like a single wandering skritt in Metrica Province that jumps me for my shinies while I am away from my computer pouring a glass of Omnomberry juice.

I can’t beg enough for elementalist to have access to semi-permanent elementals.

Windwalker.2047:

That would be kinda OP especially for the earth ele that can tank anything in the game.
I’m all for ele buffs but this seems kinda too much-maybe just the manually usable skill .

Actually earth eles have same stats (both vit and toughness) as ice elementals, its just a point in preference of cripple+protection or chill+mini heals.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Fire – solid damage, easily melted.
Water – Meh, the fact you cant use the Heal yourself is rather annoying
Earth – Plenty of health, thats about it
Air – stuns every now and then

Nothing Elite about any of them. Just because we have a selection of less than average summons doesn’t make the skill itself better.

The earth elemental can tank just about anything and stay up the entire fight, not to mention that it attracts aggro very well. The air elemental has a stun on a relatively short cooldown and the fact that it’s ranged makes it a lot more likely to hit. And again I emphasize, the dps from the air elemental isn’t that much lower than the dps of the fire elemental. As for the water version, an AoE heal is pretty strong but it also produces ice fields (afaik we have the only summon that produces combo fields). And it does push back targetting golems, making me wonder if it secretly has an interrupt as well.

Andele.1306:

Actually earth eles have same stats (both vit and toughness) as ice elementals, its just a point in preference of cripple+protection or chill+mini heals.

What do you base that on? Because when I use my elementals to tank, say, a champion, my earth elemental can stay alive where the others don’t seem to be able to. Is it just the short protection/weakness that makes such a difference then?

ThiBash.5634:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Fire - solid damage, easily melted.
Water - Meh, the fact you cant use the Heal yourself is rather annoying
Earth - Plenty of health, thats about it
Air - stuns every now and then

Nothing Elite about any of them. Just because we have a selection of less than average summons doesn’t make the skill itself better.

The earth elemental can tank just about anything and stay up the entire fight, not to mention that it attracts aggro _very well_. The air elemental has a stun on a relatively short cooldown and the fact that it’s ranged makes it a lot more likely to hit. And again I emphasize, the dps from the air elemental isn’t that much lower than the dps of the fire elemental. As for the water version, an AoE heal is pretty strong but it also produces ice fields (afaik we have the only summon that produces combo fields). And it does push back targetting golems, making me wonder if it secretly has an interrupt as well.

Ice has a knockback on its heal attack, yes.

As for quality of the summons... the earth one is great around PvE, with none of the rest really seeing use from me there.
In large-scale WvW, most (if not all) summons are useless, so that’s fine.
Small-scale WvW or sPvP: they’re not nearly reliable enough in a fight. Air and Ice bring you a bit of CC, but it’ll rarely activate when you want, and this doubly goes for Ice since it’s got that hefty heal in there too.

The only other summons without activated abilities (correct me if I’ve missed any) are:
- mesmer illusions (which the whole class is built around, and which can do a whole bunch of stuff when traited)
- thief’s wee pals (who all activate scripted attack chains)
- engineer’s elite Supply Crate (which has a stun and blast finisher on activation, and immobilize/burning/regeneration from turrets)

I can maybe understand the argument that the Glyphs, giving a choice of elementals to summon, should be weaker than other summons due to bringing greater utility to a build - but when only one attunement’s elemental is ever used in PvE, and they’re generally regarded as poor in PvP, I don’t believe that they should stay this way.

Actually earth eles have same stats (both vit and toughness) as ice elementals, its just a point in preference of cripple+protection or chill+mini heals.

What do you base that on? Because when I use my elementals to tank, say, a champion, my earth elemental can stay alive where the others don’t seem to be able to. Is it just the short protection/weakness that makes such a difference then?

The player-maintained wiki page agrees that earth and ice have the same health, but, like the tooltip, implies that the earth elemental has higher toughness levels. Please cite the source of this info, Andele

In my opinion, sure its “okay” in PvE but lets face it most of the content is SO easy you could do it in no armor. In PvP/WvW is where my issue lies, it is not threat to anyone they can simply be ignored by players.

Having it so that a few tweaks are made would make them more of a threat. It rather annoys me that each of there “best” attacks are done randomly – needs to have more player control over it.

They seem to think that because you can use 4 elementals which as i stated is either ignored (PvP/WvW) or not even needed (PvE) but even having 4 of them doesn’t make up for the weaknesses:

1) Very long cool down
2) Short Duration
3) No control of the “best” attack
4) No threat in WvW/PvP
5) No need in PvE

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

1) Very long cool down
2) Short Duration

It’s the cooldown/durations are shorter than things like Spirit of Nature (180 recharge) and Fellow Thieves (only 30s duration). In addition, glyphs can be traited for shorter cooldown. they can be traited to get lower cooldowns. Only flesh golem has a lower recharge but it gets a lengthy cooldown on its special in return.

3) No control of the “best” attack

True, but you get more than 1 special and they’re fairly spammable. Flesh golem has 40(!) seconds recharge on their stun, Air Elementals only 10 or so. I’ll take Air over flesh golem any day.

4) No threat in WvW/PvP

Then you’re using them wrong. And for the record, how is a flesh golem a threat in WvW?

5) No need in PvE

2 Fire elementals allow me to burst down the CoF p1 gate controller in just a few seconds in non-zerker gear. Earth elementals can tank anything (and work very well on lane 1 in the marionette event). You may not like them, you may not use them, but they are NOT useless.

I would love to choose when the abilities activate more than anything. Sure, air stuns every 10s or so, but I’d rather be able to choose to stun a heal than just stun 4 auto-attacks.

The only other change would be to lower the duration and the cooldown. Permanent elementals would be bad b/c then I can’t choose to use another one.

Also, fire ele does hit pretty darn hard, but you do have to set it up, which is harder when its hits aren’t controllable.

Regardless, I’d be just as happy if they nerfed the crap out of every pet – I want to fight players.

ThiBash.5634:

It’s the cooldown/durations are shorter than things like Spirit of Nature (180 recharge) and Fellow Thieves (only 30s duration). In addition, glyphs can be traited for shorter cooldown. they can be traited to get lower cooldowns. Only flesh golem has a lower recharge but it gets a lengthy cooldown on its special in return.

The golem can be traited for lower cool down, more health, siphon health for the Necromancer among other things. So don’t quite see your point.

ThiBash.5634:

True, but you get more than 1 special and they’re fairly spammable. Flesh golem has 40(!) seconds recharge on their stun, Air Elementals only 10 or so. I’ll take Air over flesh golem any day.

true its on a longer cool down, but the fact i have TOTAL control of when it is used on my Necromancer means it is rarely wasted and when it is, it is because i was too slow or timed it wrong.

Having the ability to CHOOSE what to interrupt/stun is MUCH better than having several which could very well just interrupt useless auto attacks that are of little threat.

ThiBash.5634:

Then you’re using them wrong. And for the record, how is a flesh golem a threat in WvW?

Traited it becomes VERY tough and the fact that the stun and very decent damage is PLAYER controlled, lets not forget that the stun isn’t just one target either. Using it through a stacked group is VERY useful, using it to stop allies getting finished is very useful among other things.

The problem comes due mostly to the fact we have ZERO control of when the skill is going to be used and thus could be wasted and go on full cool down, whose fault would that be? Not ours but the AI’s

ANY player that targets the Elemental first is simply doing it wrong, i have never had to think “oh kitten this elemental is a serious threat, better focus that instead of the ele”

ThiBash.5634:

2 Fire elementals allow me to burst down the CoF p1 gate controller in just a few seconds in non-zerker gear. Earth elementals can tank anything (and work very well on lane 1 in the marionette event). You may not like them, you may not use them, but they are NOT useless.

Have you NEEDED to use them, just because they aren’t useless, doesnt mean they are useful. They are not NEEDED at all in PvE, because they are no threat and because we have ZERO control of them along with the insane cool down, low duration and other things i have mentioned.

Gw2Browser – this thing, that shaman helped guys on reddit with that quite a while ago, but its possible that, just like every npc in game, the 2 arent of the same armor type (one is heavy other is light or medium). On a side note, yes protection does make a massive difference.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The golem can be traited for lower cool down, more health, siphon health for the Necromancer among other things. So don’t quite see your point.

The point is that when it comes to summons, the elementals are the second best summon skill out there, yet you qualify them as useless.

true its on a longer cool down, but the fact i have TOTAL control of when it is used on my Necromancer means it is rarely wasted and when it is, it is because i was too slow or timed it wrong.

Having the ability to CHOOSE what to interrupt/stun is MUCH better than having several which could very well just interrupt useless auto attacks that are of little threat.

And yet some of us prefer the spammable version. Which so happen to work very well with the trait that increases damage against stunned targets. What you mention is preference, not performance.

Traited it becomes VERY tough and the fact that the stun and very decent damage is PLAYER controlled, lets not forget that the stun isn’t just one target either. Using it through a stacked group is VERY useful, using it to stop allies getting finished is very useful among other things.

Yet you need half a build just to make it useful. The elementals get all of their usage out of the box. And even with all those traits, the flesh golem is just a one-tick pony that gets nullified by a single stunbreaker, immobilize or stability. And if that happens, you have to wait 40 seconds before you get another shot.

ANY player that targets the Elemental first is simply doing it wrong, i have never had to think “oh kitten this elemental is a serious threat, better focus that instead of the ele”

I guess that’s why in sPvP ice elementals get taken out first. As for your silly little flesh golem, knowing that it can only do something useful every 40 seconds means that once it’s done its trick, you can safely ignore it because it’s otherwise useless. It has no conditions, weak damage, and no range.

Have you NEEDED to use them, just because they aren’t useless, doesnt mean they are useful. They are not NEEDED at all in PvE, because they are no threat and because we have ZERO control of them along with the insane cool down, low duration and other things i have mentioned.

Any skill that is NEEDED anywhere is a poorly designed skill. There should always be multiple options and if your whole build relies on your elite, then it’s a poor build to begin with.

As for the insane cooldown and low duration, I have already shown you that’s simply not true. If you want to have an honest discussion, stop ignoring the facts. The elemental has the best cooldown and duration of all summons besides flesh golem.

Andele.1306:

Gw2Browser – this thing, that shaman helped guys on reddit with that quite a while ago, but its possible that, just like every npc in game, the 2 arent of the same armor type (one is heavy other is light or medium). On a side note, yes protection does make a massive difference.

True, but the duration is rather short so you’d expect it to only save the elemental for one or 2 hits. I’ll see if I can do some testing to find out more about this. The key to making proper use of the elementals lies in knowing all there is to know about them and I suppose this is no different.

Just want to say this has been a very interesting discussion. I’ve been disappointed that the wiki does not document the elementals’ stats and abilities very well. Can anyone point me to a site that does?

I agree elementals aren’t super, but remember they can be cast pre-combat, so they’re not taking up any casting time. Any damage/boons/conditions the provide versus players are just gravy.

I use fire elemental to help me burn down yaks faster, and earth elementals to tank supply camps while I solo them.* Ice gets the call in a player fight, because I. Hate. Chill. So I figure my opponents hate it too. Maybe I should go with air in that situation, but the electric scorpion annoys me. Bring back my ball lightning!

*Precast the greater earth elemental. Have lesser on your bar only when taking camps solo. When something aggros you instead of the greater, pull out the lesser, then dodge, it will pull aggro.

In my opinion they ARE sub par, most of the time they are NO threat to any player and can simply be ignored. The fact that they cast the “best” attack them selves is SERIOUSLY annoying as well

Then you get onto the fact of the low duration and the high cool down. No excuse for it. Simple as that. You cant use the “oh we have 4 though” that means nothing when we can ONLY summon ONE at a time…

They need to be buffed in my opinion.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Then you get onto the fact of the low duration and the high cool down

You’re purposely ignoring any evidence that doesn’t fit your view. I’ll list all summon skills so you can see the glyph of elementals is actually the best:

Spirit of Nature: 60s duration, 180s recharge
Thieves Guild: 30s duration, 180s recharge
Glyph of Elementals: 60s duration, 120s recharge
Asura Golems: 40s duration, 180s recharge
Charr Warband: 30s duration, 240s recharge
Hounds of Balthazar: 30s duration, 240s recharge
Sylvan Hound: 60s duration, 180s recharge
Mistfire Wolf: 30s duration, 150s recharge

The recharge starts when the elemental goes down, so if it lasts the full duration, the actual recharge will be 180 seconds. However, this means that it’s as high as any other skill at worst and much lower at best. And unlike other skills, it can be traited to lower the recharge even further.

So what you’re saying is simply untrue.

They need to be buffed in my opinion.

What you want is a change, not a buff. The only 2 pet classes in the game are the Ranger and the Necromancer. The elementals aren’t the main focus of the elementalist so naturally they function differently. The flesh golem works on the necro because the class can support it with traits and other minions. The elementalist does not and so the current version actually works a lot better. You don’t have to use them if you don’t like them, but I think many have showne they can actually put them to good use. So the optimal solution is that you go play minion necro, and we get too keep the elementals they way they are now. That way, both sides will be happy.

ThiBash.5634:

You’re purposely ignoring any evidence that doesn’t fit your view. I’ll list all summon skills so you can see the glyph of elementals is actually the best:

Spirit of Nature: 60s duration, 180s recharge
Thieves Guild: 30s duration, 180s recharge
Glyph of Elementals: 60s duration, 120s recharge
Asura Golems: 40s duration, 180s recharge
Charr Warband: 30s duration, 240s recharge
Hounds of Balthazar: 30s duration, 240s recharge
Sylvan Hound: 60s duration, 180s recharge
Mistfire Wolf: 30s duration, 150s recharge

The recharge starts when the elemental goes down, so if it lasts the full duration, the actual recharge will be 180 seconds. However, this means that it’s as high as any other skill at worst and much lower at best. And unlike other skills, it can be traited to lower the recharge even further.

So what you’re saying is simply untrue.

interesting you dont mention the ONE summon that really counts, Golem.

Spirit of Nature: 60s duration, 180s recharge – Heals allies and has a a skill that removes 5 conditions from 5 people and resses 3 people. Seems a fair cool down considering.

Thieves Guild: 30s duration, 180s recharge – Summons 3 Thieves IIRC
Asura Golems: 40s duration, 180s recharge – Race. Should be weak
Charr Warband: 30s duration, 240s recharge – Race. Should be weak.
Hounds of Balthazar: 30s duration, 240s recharge – Race. Should be weak
Sylvan Hound: 60s duration, 180s recharge – Race. Should be weak.
Mistfire Wolf: 30s duration, 150s recharge – Is from Limited Edition. Should be weak.

Flash Golem – lives until dies, 60 second cool down – Cripples targets, has a 40second charge skill that knocks people down or launches them. Has traits for more health, traits to transfer condition, trait to heal master….

ThiBash.5634:

Spirit of Nature: 60s duration, 180s recharge
Thieves Guild: 30s duration, 180s recharge
Glyph of Elementals: 60s duration, 120s recharge

Just saying, I would take Spirit of Nature EVERY DAY vs. Glyph of Elementals, regardless of the cooldown. The Glyph is a mediocre skill on a great skill cooldown, whereas Spirit of Nature is a game-changing skill on a proper game-changing skill CD.

BlackBeard.2873:

Just saying, I would take Spirit of Nature EVERY DAY vs. Glyph of Elementals, regardless of the cooldown. The Glyph is a mediocre skill on a great skill cooldown, whereas Spirit of Nature is a game-changing skill on a proper game-changing skill CD.

This. I see nothing that the Elemental offers making it worthy of a 180second cool down. The fact you get the choice of 4 elementals means nothing when they are all average.

personally, i’d rather have 4 separate normal elemental summons. (one skill for earth elemental, 1 different skill for fire elemental, 1 different skill for water, etc…) with on-command skills, and traits that can buff them. at worst, these on-command skills would provide effects, such as conditions or combo-fields or blast finishers, so they could be affected by the existing traits.

and then an elite arcane elemental that the on-command skill changes when the player switches attunements. the arcane elemental that was summoned would not change however.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

sorry, but with the 60 second limit, the only thing that would make this skill Elite worthy is to make it an arcane elemental whose spells change based on player attunement. and give a “on-command” skill that changes with player attunement. and then drop the 60 second timer.

flesh golem has a 60 second cooldown for an elite summons that stays until it dies, and has “on command” skill. guardian summons (spectral weapons) at least give a “on-command” skill as well. and of course mesmers get their “on command” shatters and rangers get their “on command” f2s.

i forgot engineers with their summoned turrets + on-command skills, and warriors with their banners, that are better than conjures because they don’t dissolve when other players drop them after picking them up. and thanks to those above who also mentioned ranger spirits. and of course the rest of necro minions.

it seems to me that a design philosophy exists that was discarded for elementalist class (and apparently some elite skills, too). this needs to be remedied in my opinion. the design philosophy that ALL summons give an on-command skill to the player skill bar while the summon is active.

Yeah i think having 5 single Elementals would be A LOT better. They could then all be on the same 60second cool down and stay until die sort of thing. It would then make them easier to balance as well.

An Arcane elemental would be pretty cool as well. I think one that skills change based on the elementalists attunement, this one would deserve a higher cool down i think. The appearance of the Arcane elemental wouldn’t change. Neither would the attacks but the affects would. For example

The Basic attack:
Fire – Deals impact damage and burning in a reasonable radius of the target
Water – bouncing attack that heals/gives regen to allies and inflicts poison on enemies
Air – Bouncing attack that has high crit chance
Earth – Deals Impact damage and inflicts a random conditions on target

Make it so they have 5 attacks and a 6th that the Elemental can trigger, say 40second cool down just like Flesh Golem that changes based on the attunement. Make it so that it triggers any Glyph traits as well.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

interesting you dont mention the ONE summon that really counts, Golem.

That’s because it’s a weak useless summon which needs several traits to be even moderately useful and has 1 active ability with a humongeous 40 seconds cooldown.

Spirit of Nature: 60s duration, 180s recharge – Heals allies and has a a skill that removes 5 conditions from 5 people and resses 3 people. Seems a fair cool down considering.

Eles can do that already without using their elite slot. Also, our summon actually fights, and it can move without a hefty trait investment.

Thieves Guild:* 30s duration, 180s recharge – Summons 3 Thieves IIRC

Wiki says 2.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

BlackBeard.2873:

Just saying, I would take Spirit of Nature EVERY DAY vs. Glyph of Elementals, regardless of the cooldown. The Glyph is a mediocre skill on a great skill cooldown, whereas Spirit of Nature is a game-changing skill on a proper game-changing skill CD.

This. I see nothing that the Elemental offers making it worthy of a 180second cool down. The fact you get the choice of 4 elementals means nothing when they are all average.

It requires 20 trait points just to make it move with you. The spirit only works in a dedicated build, otherwise it’s practical duration would be slim to none. Not to mention the fact that they’re burst down far more easily than elementals because they don’t do anything on their own. At least elementals buff themselves, dodge, or attack and hinder the opponent. And they have more hitpoints.

The fact that earth elementals can tank any mob in the game and survive for its full duration is a game changing ability. The added dps from fire elementals is a game changing ability. The spammable ranged stun from air elementals is a game changing ability. Free ice fields every 20 seconds is a game changing ability (no other profession can spam ice fields).

Your weak flesh golem ‘once-in-a-match’ charge…now that is a weak, non-game changing ability. Even if you can time it, if that’s the best it can pull off, it’s weak. The air elemental at least has the advantage of the stun being harder to see it coming, and if it fails…well, 10 seconds later there’ll be another one.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Yeah i think having 5 single Elementals would be A LOT better. They could then all be on the same 60second cool down and stay until die sort of thing. It would then make them easier to balance as well.

You truly don’t get the whole ‘elementalist is not a pet class’ concept do you?

Why don’t you just admit you want a necro that looks as awesome as the elementalist?

ThiBash.5634:

You truly don’t get the whole ‘elementalist is not a pet class’ concept do you?

You truely don’t understand that of course i meant for each of them to not all be summonable at the same time. I would take Golem over GoE every day of the week. I had a fight in OS last night being a 1Vs1 Tornado would have been useless, didnt fancy using FGS and we both went GoE -

Fire Ele died within SECONDS on both of our summons. I barely noticed the damage their one did. I don’t think they even noticed the damage mine did. In fact NONE of the ele we pretty much used them ALL during our 20-30minute fight and none made ANY sort of impact on the fight, we just ignored each others and let the AoE and splash damage kill them off.

This is what i mean, they simply are not a threat. Having to have them balanced around the fact their is 4 even though you can only summon one is rather odd as it makes them weaker than they really should be. Then you get into the fact that they have really long and undeserved cool downs – for what? They aren’t a threat and yet require 180second cool down…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ThiBash.5634:

You truly don’t get the whole ‘elementalist is not a pet class’ concept do you?

You truely don’t understand that of course i meant for each of them to not all be summonable at the same time.

Doesn’t matter. You want to make them permanenet, which means you’re effectively turning a non-pet class into a pet class.

I would take Golem over GoE every day of the week. I had a fight in OS last night being a 1Vs1 Tornado would have been useless, didnt fancy using FGS and we both went GoE -

Fire Ele died within SECONDS on both of our summons. I barely noticed the damage their one did. I don’t think they even noticed the damage mine did. In fact NONE of the ele we pretty much used them ALL during our 20-30minute fight and none made ANY sort of impact on the fight, we just ignored each others and let the AoE and splash damage kill them off.

Did you even consider summoning any of the other elementals? Because there’s no way your opponent’s splash damage could have instantly taken out an earth elemental. The glyph gives you the ability to use a different summon on the fly, but if you don’t use the right summon in the right situation then of course they’ll be useless.

his is what i mean, they simply are not a threat. Having to have them balanced around the fact their is 4 even though you can only summon one is rather odd as it makes them weaker than they really should be. Then you get into the fact that they have really long and undeserved cool downs – for what? They aren’t a threat and yet require 180second cool down…

Again…they don’t have a long cooldown. They have the lowest cooldown of all summon skills in all non-pet classes.

ThiBash.5634:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ThiBash.5634:

You truly don’t get the whole ‘elementalist is not a pet class’ concept do you?

You truely don’t understand that of course i meant for each of them to not all be summonable at the same time.

Doesn’t matter. You want to make them permanenet, which means you’re effectively turning a non-pet class into a pet class.

I would take Golem over GoE every day of the week. I had a fight in OS last night being a 1Vs1 Tornado would have been useless, didnt fancy using FGS and we both went GoE -

Fire Ele died within SECONDS on both of our summons. I barely noticed the damage their one did. I don’t think they even noticed the damage mine did. In fact NONE of the ele we pretty much used them ALL during our 20-30minute fight and none made ANY sort of impact on the fight, we just ignored each others and let the AoE and splash damage kill them off.

Did you even consider summoning any of the other elementals? Because there’s no way your opponent’s splash damage could have instantly taken out an earth elemental. The glyph gives you the ability to use a different summon on the fly, but if you don’t use the right summon in the right situation then of course they’ll be useless.

his is what i mean, they simply are not a threat. Having to have them balanced around the fact their is 4 even though you can only summon one is rather odd as it makes them weaker than they really should be. Then you get into the fact that they have really long and undeserved cool downs – for what? They aren’t a threat and yet require 180second cool down…

Again…they don’t have a long cooldown. They have the lowest cooldown of all summon skills in all non-pet classes.

In our fight we used ALL of them and some several times. They made little to no impact on the fight or died VERY fast – i mean the Fire ele was dead within 5 seconds of being summoned. While the Earth summon lasted longer, it again had no impact on our fight. Air seemed to work the “best” but still “best” of a bad bunch and still it mostly interrupted auto attacks and not attacks or heal that would be better to interrupt – This is where not having control of the “best” attack gets very annoyed.

Stop trying to compare them to “pet classes” – Ranger is the ONLY pet class as they HAVE to use them. Necromancer DOESN’T have to use ANY of them thus they are NOT a pet class. I take Golem on my Powermancer with NO traits at all to make it better – because it doesnt need them. Sure it makes them better depending on the build but you don’t have to take them.

Every auto-attack interrupted is effectively a blind and an immobilize, which adds up in the long run. The dps granted by the air elemental is substantial enough to make a difference. In contrast to your view, I’ve had duels in the Obsidian Sanctum with a thief that evaded me until my Air Elemental went down. So it’s a significant threat to some at least.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Stop trying to compare them to “pet classes” – Ranger is the ONLY pet class as they HAVE to use them. Necromancer DOESN’T have to use ANY of them thus they are NOT a pet class.

Pretty sure ArenaNet called them both pet classes during the release events.

I take Golem on my Powermancer with NO traits at all to make it better – because it doesnt need them. Sure it makes them better depending on the build but you don’t have to take them.

Pretty sure the elementals outclass untraited golems in both survivability and raw damage. In fact, nothing you’ve said so far has convinced me that a traited golem is worth taking, let alone an untraited one. All you keep jammering about is that 1 launch every 40 seconds that’s supposedly so good that you can win every fight with it. You’re just not using your elementals properly. Maybe that’s because you don’t like their mechanics and thus don’t use them enough. I don’t know what the reason is, but for me they help me win fights. If there’d be any skill I’d change on the elementalist, Glyph of Elementals is probably the last on my list.

Wouldn’t mind a ‘detonate’ option for each of the elementals. Or a ‘trigger’ button that lets the player use the special ability of the elemental on command. The water elemental heal might need a tiny nerf if it could be triggered..

Malcastus.6240:

The water elemental heal might need a tiny nerf if it could be triggered.

If the flesh golem is any indication, it’ll recieve a HUGE nerf (double cast time at least).

The current “Best” skills are (according to wiki):
No mention of cool downs for Fire, Air or Earth skills. Not every helpful.

Fire – Lightning Strike – Sends out 4 fast projectiles at target foe. The first 3 projectiles hits for ~300 damage. The last blasts the area with fire, dealing ~2000 damage to all foes within range. While casting this spell, the Fire Elemental flies up in the air and evades attacks. (silly name i know…)

Water – Cleansing wave – Knocks an enemy back dealing ~1200 damage. Then cast a cleansing wave, healing self and nearby allies for 6570. Has a 25 second cooldown.

Air – Mind Shock – Ranged attack. Stuns target for 1 second. Deals no damage.

Earth – Stomp – Deals ~1300 area damage and cripples nearby foes for 5 seconds. Nearby allies also grant the protection boon for 3 seconds

Personally, with slight changes/buffs and given reasonable cool downs i think given the ability to choose WHEN to use it would be a great start to making it a great elite. Personally i think Air and Earth could be buffed a bit, though again it depends on the cool down the skills have. Rather annoying that i can’t seem to find the cool down for Fire, Air and Earth skills…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Rather annoying that i can’t seem to find the cool down for Fire, Air and Earth skills…

As far as I know, the cooldown for the air stun is somewhere in the 10-15 seconds range. I believe the same goes for most of the other abilities, though I’ve never actually sat downed and timed them exactly. Guess I should probably do that some day.

However, when it comes to the Ice Elemental, I think I’d rather have the ice field on call than the heal. It makes for some great combos, escpecially the blast (AoE armor of frost).

ThiBash.5634:

As far as I know, the cooldown for the air stun is somewhere in the 10-15 seconds range. I believe the same goes for most of the other abilities, though I’ve never actually sat downed and timed them exactly. Guess I should probably do that some day.

However, when it comes to the Ice Elemental, I think I’d rather have the ice field on call than the heal. It makes for some great combos, escpecially the blast (AoE armor of frost).

By “Best” skill i mean the one that is exclusive to the Elite version of the elementals, the Ice field one the lesser elemental has. They could go both way and make it so that both the Elite and Lesser Glyph of Elementals has the “active” use and of course the skills would be different

The “best” attacks for the Lesser Elemental and thus could be given the same treatment would be:

Air – Windborne speed – Grants swiftness to nearby allies for 10 seconds and cures chilled, crippled and immobilized.

Earth – Power Punch – Melee attack. Deals ~600 damage and inflicts weakness for 5 seconds.

Fire – Lightning Storm – Deals ~1000 area damage to nearby foes, cripples them for 3 seconds, and grant nearby allies 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds. While casting this spell, the Fire Elemental flies up in the air and evades attacks. (why the silly name? :/)

Ice – Frozen Ground – Creates a frozen ground. Foes in the frozen ground become chilled for one second every second. Lasts for 5 seconds.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

By “Best” skill i mean the one that is exclusive to the Elite version of the elementals, the Ice field one the lesser elemental has. They could go both way and make it so that both the Elite and Lesser Glyph of Elementals has the “active” use and of course the skills would be different.

But wheter that’d be more useful is debatable. For the Ice Elemental, having the ice field as a trigger would be far more desirable to auramancers. Yet healing orientated eles would want the heal. The air elemental’s swiftness would be preferable out of combat, the stun in combat. And yet others would want the fire elemental’s might buff on demand rather than just the attack. So just picking the ability that the lesser version doesn’t have isn’t going to work. You would end up with pretty much the same discussion we’re having now. Some players would say it’s great, others say Anet picked the wrong skill and it should be changed.

ThiBash.5634:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

By “Best” skill i mean the one that is exclusive to the Elite version of the elementals, the Ice field one the lesser elemental has. They could go both way and make it so that both the Elite and Lesser Glyph of Elementals has the “active” use and of course the skills would be different.

But wheter that’d be more useful is debatable. For the Ice Elemental, having the ice field as a trigger would be far more desirable to auramancers. Yet healing orientated eles would want the heal. The air elemental’s swiftness would be preferable out of combat, the stun in combat. And yet others would want the fire elemental’s might buff on demand rather than just the attack. So just picking the ability that the lesser version doesn’t have isn’t going to work. You would end up with pretty much the same discussion we’re having now. Some players would say it’s great, others say Anet picked the wrong skill and it should be changed.

That is true but going by “best” as in the skill only the elite version has would mean it would be them skills. I am pretty sure that Air swiftness doesn’t work outside combat. The clear difference would be the fact that EVERYONE would get to choose WHEN to use the skills.

Be it something that amazing to them, or just something that is useful. You saying that Auramancers don’t care about the heal at all? The problem is the fact that all the different builds wouldn’t be able to say “yes that skill” as it would be different for many of them so either have useful skills for some, while amazing for others or have zero control over the skills at all.

The only way i could see it being good for everyone would be for example combining the Ice field with the heal but having to have both weakened to counter that – would people want that? Personally, i don’t think they would.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

That is true but going by “best” as in the skill only the elite version has would mean it would be them skills. I am pretty sure that Air swiftness doesn’t work outside combat. The clear difference would be the fact that EVERYONE would get to choose WHEN to use the skills.

Be it something that amazing to them, or just something that is useful. You saying that Auramancers don’t care about the heal at all? The problem is the fact that all the different builds wouldn’t be able to say “yes that skill” as it would be different for many of them so either have useful skills for some, while amazing for others or have zero control over the skills at all.

The only way i could see it being good for everyone would be for example combining the Ice field with the heal but having to have both weakened to counter that – would people want that? Personally, i don’t think they would.

Agreed on that. There quite a few things to consider if this change is to be implemented and in the end there would be no optimal solution. What must be considered is the purpose of the skill…I feel like it was meant as a fire-and-forget ally, which you have little control over but at the same time, requires 0 build investment to function. The activated abilities would force it to act around builds more, which each build having their obvious ‘best choice’. So rather than a flexible solution to many problems, you’d get an inflexible must-use-with. As you can probably tell, I prefer the former. But I suppose we’ll let ArenaNet have the final say on this matter.