Is it me or do other people just suck?
ever since they took away cele gear most ele’s can’t play it anymore because cele was the only reason they would surive
In addition to that a lot of ele’s are simply put bad, the only reason why they played it was because of the tank meta and the fact that a great deal of players had macros, they just pushed 1 button, the macro kicks in and the rotation just did everything on it’s own, that is all an ele needed to do to stay alive, sustain others and deal massive dmg, now that cele is gone it takes more skill to play ele, hence less good eles ^^
They just suck. Before the changes eles would rarely dodge anything but the most telegraphed nuke, they didn’t need to. Now I can hit most else in the face with gravedigger. Yeah. That’s a problem. Eating my guards entire ww? Yeah that’s gonna leave a mark.
ever since they took away cele gear most ele’s can’t play it anymore because cele was the only reason they would surive
In addition to that a lot of ele’s are simply put bad, the only reason why they played it was because of the tank meta and the fact that a great deal of players had macros, they just pushed 1 button, the macro kicks in and the rotation just did everything on it’s own, that is all an ele needed to do to stay alive, sustain others and deal massive dmg, now that cele is gone it takes more skill to play ele, hence less good eles ^^
So basically before I started playing everyone was relying on this op gear. Once they removed it to balance things out, everyone figured out that eles weren’t that easy to play…so they either all rolled another “easy” class or quit. If the fact of using a macro was keeping them to play eles….that’s sad as heck. I may have a mouse with 12 buttons on it plus some, but even if I didn’t…I wouldn’t be using a macro to play my character. Takes the fun out of it.
They just suck. Before the changes eles would rarely dodge anything but the most telegraphed nuke, they didn’t need to. Now I can hit most else in the face with gravedigger. Yeah. That’s a problem. Eating my guards entire ww? Yeah that’s gonna leave a mark.
You know…now that you mention it, I’ve noticed that a lot in pvp. The eles don’t really dodge anything. Even the ones that have teleport. Once they use it, they just stand still at the spot they teleported to. I don’t know if they lvled an ele or not..but I did. The entire time I was either running, jumping, dodging or teleporting away from mobs to not get hit…cuz fact the fact…nuke builds…are exactly what they are…fragile glass cannons. So unless I’m on my aura build; if you actually see me…it’s because I got too lazy to move.
Since no one else is speaking up, whether because they gave up and stopped checking forums or they don’t care anymore, I guess I’ll come in and say something before you inflate your own ego any further…
Let’s preface this with a couple things.
First, given that this is only the first week since S2 start, I’m going to guess that you probably played in the lower ranks, and there, almost any build can still get you wins assuming you don’t play like an idiot. If you’re truly skilled, then keep farming the unskilled players for wins, and wait till you get to the higher ranks as a solo queue before you comment on whether or not non-meta builds can still perform.
Second, since you’ve only played ele for 2 months, I’m going to guess you don’t know the history of the elementalist class. Simply put, the class was at first advertised as a “jack of all trades” class, but until celestial amulet was buffed into viability, this title was never really true. We were/still are too squishy to go full damage as a competitive build. Even then, the majority of builds that have ever been meta runs 2 defensive (or 1.5 since tempest and arcane are defensive/utility) trait lines to make the ele survive. Build diversity has always been bad, since the power difference of non-meta builds compared to meta builds is night and day. What makes it worse is that every nerf targeted at the meta bunker/bruiser builds usually ends up hitting the non-meta builds harder than the intended target.
And that’s exactly what’s happening yet again. The meta tempest build brought far too much sustain, but instead of toning it down specifically, anet nuked an integral part of what made other ele builds work without giving them something substantial back. Look at the scepter, it’s been more than 3 years, and it still has terrible auto attacks and lacking utility. Many of our utility skills are crap, either because of unusably high CDs, or simply lacking in good effects. Non-defensive builds cannot work because we don’t have the tools to sustain ourselves without running the same few defensive traits that we have always run.
Does that mean ele as a class is completely unviable? No, it can still work, as proven by the rehash of the meta auramancer support build. (Condition builds can also work to a certain degree) Are other builds also good, befitting of the title of “jack of all trades”? Not really. Seriously, I challenge you to make a bruiser build as a power ele that can rival scrapper.
Were/are there incompetent eles? Yes. and if they left the class because of the latest nerfs, good riddance. But note that the class isn’t in a good place, not because we do not have a place competitively, but because the class has lost its identity, and because of the many other issues that non-meta builds face. These issues have been ignored over and over and over because people, not unlike you, point at the one single meta build and say “hey, the class is fine”.
Ps. On your comment about 1 v 1s. Just because you don’t care for them doesn’t mean it’s not important. If a class is effective in both 1 v 1 and teamfights, they’re automatically more flexible than one that is only good at one. It’s also the situation where mechanical skills are most required.
Since no one else is speaking up, whether because they gave up and stopped checking forums or they don’t care anymore, I guess I’ll come in and say something before you inflate your own ego any further…
Let’s preface this with a couple things.
First, given that this is only the first week since S2 start, I’m going to guess that you probably played in the lower ranks, and there, almost any build can still get you wins assuming you don’t play like an idiot. If you’re truly skilled, then keep farming the unskilled players for wins, and wait till you get to the higher ranks as a solo queue before you comment on whether or not non-meta builds can still perform.Second, since you’ve only played ele for 2 months, I’m going to guess you don’t know the history of the elementalist class. Simply put, the class was at first advertised as a “jack of all trades” class, but until celestial amulet was buffed into viability, this title was never really true. We were/still are too squishy to go full damage as a competitive build. Even then, the majority of builds that have ever been meta runs 2 defensive (or 1.5 since tempest and arcane are defensive/utility) trait lines to make the ele survive. Build diversity has always been bad, since the power difference of non-meta builds compared to meta builds is night and day. What makes it worse is that every nerf targeted at the meta bunker/bruiser builds usually ends up hitting the non-meta builds harder than the intended target.
And that’s exactly what’s happening yet again. The meta tempest build brought far too much sustain, but instead of toning it down specifically, anet nuked an integral part of what made other ele builds work without giving them something substantial back. Look at the scepter, it’s been more than 3 years, and it still has terrible auto attacks and lacking utility. Many of our utility skills are crap, either because of unusably high CDs, or simply lacking in good effects. Non-defensive builds cannot work because we don’t have the tools to sustain ourselves without running the same few defensive traits that we have always run.
Does that mean ele as a class is completely unviable? No, it can still work, as proven by the rehash of the meta auramancer support build. (Condition builds can also work to a certain degree) Are other builds also good, befitting of the title of “jack of all trades”? Not really. Seriously, I challenge you to make a bruiser build as a power ele that can rival scrapper.
Were/are there incompetent eles? Yes. and if they left the class because of the latest nerfs, good riddance. But note that the class isn’t in a good place, not because we do not have a place competitively, but because the class has lost its identity, and because of the many other issues that non-meta builds face. These issues have been ignored over and over and over because people, not unlike you, point at the one single meta build and say “hey, the class is fine”.
Ps. On your comment about 1 v 1s. Just because you don’t care for them doesn’t mean it’s not important. If a class is effective in both 1 v 1 and teamfights, they’re automatically more flexible than one that is only good at one. It’s also the situation where mechanical skills are most required.
Very good insights. I appreciate it. I wasn’t trying to get a big ole kitten, but after reading what I wrote. I can see how one may view that. But yes, it may be way to early for me to even say anything about it. It was frankly a question on why so many people are complaining about it, but I find it perferctly fine. You mentioned something about identity of an elementalist, which is supposed to be a jack of all trades. In majority of games that contain mages or spellshooting character…they’re made to be very beefy in damage and have a support role as well. So I am assuming that they were way to strong in the damage department and people where complaining non stop about it?
But in the end…Anet is just screwing up……truth?
In majority of games that contain mages or spellshooting character…they’re made to be very beefy in damage and have a support role as well. So I am assuming that they were way to strong in the damage department and people where complaining non stop about it?
But in the end…Anet is just screwing up……truth?
Ele hasn’t really had a viable role as a damage-dealer in a very long time (about 2.5 years when it was truly viable, while s/f ele was borderline competitive prior to specialization patch). The problem has always been survivability actually, for everything with the class. Base survivability is VERY low, and comes almost ALL from traits. Near the start of the game, you could play a dps-ish spec and get away with it b/c you had very high mobilty with RtL (ride the lightning) on a 15s CD (no penalty fo missing) that went 1550 range. That got nerfed….HARD (now 20s CD, doubled if you don’t hit someone, and reduced to 1200 range), and killed dps ele b/c it lacked any defensive mechanic and mobility to compete with thief and mes as roaming dps. Fresh air just died b/c they reduced the damage while everyone else got more inherent auto-proc defensive mechanics, even though it still got hard-countered by thieves (which were basically required on every team prior to HoT) because ele hard mitigation needed to survive is all on a very long CD, and there aren’t really any strengths you provide for a team in the roaming dps role. Nowadays, if you are making dps ele work it is because your enemies aren’t smart enough to know that you are an insanely easy target to kill that relies on very long CD’s to survive and can only burst relatively infrequently.
Because ele doesn’t have enough skill/utility based defense, it is pushed into taking traited defenses (which can net you a lot of prot) and healing (which is necessary to make that defense worthwhile). This worked with celestial to play a bruiser b/c you could trait defensively, get enough stat-based defense to survive, and then might-stack to get decent offense through might-stacking to kill people in a brawl (mostly by out-sustaining). With the loss of that and over-tuning of other HoT specs, ele is left with just support (because the necessary self-survival traits also help you support your team). Arguably this support spec is too strong (if you compare to something like pre-HoT bunker guard), or just right (if you compare it in power-level and team impact to scrapper/rev/reaper/druid and other over-tuned HoT specs).
Because ele doesn’t have enough skill/utility based defense, it is pushed into taking traited defenses (which can net you a lot of prot) and healing (which is necessary to make that defense worthwhile). This worked with celestial to play a bruiser b/c you could trait defensively, get enough stat-based defense to survive, and then might-stack to get decent offense through might-stacking to kill people in a brawl (mostly by out-sustaining). With the loss of that and over-tuning of other HoT specs, ele is left with just support (because the necessary self-survival traits also help you support your team). Arguably this support spec is too strong (if you compare to something like pre-HoT bunker guard), or just right (if you compare it in power-level and team impact to scrapper/rev/reaper/druid and other over-tuned HoT specs).
So let me make sure I’m understanding this correctly, you are saying that the support class is argumently too strong for an ele? But as said…it’s the only thing that’s going decent for eles right now. If they get rid of the support that the eles have…they’re simply be nothing but “basic”. Each roll has to have something that “stands out” from the crowd. That’s why there is different classes.
Here’s a possibly thought. Perhaps Anet is trying to slowly go towards the holy trinity method because of all the adjustments they’ve made to all the characters and so forth that it’s forcing them to make certain classes, role specific based.
So let me make sure I’m understanding this correctly, you are saying that the support class is argumently too strong for an ele? But as said…it’s the only thing that’s going decent for eles right now. If they get rid of the support that the eles have…they’re simply be nothing but “basic”. Each roll has to have something that “stands out” from the crowd. That’s why there is different classes.
Here’s a possibly thought. Perhaps Anet is trying to slowly go towards the holy trinity method because of all the adjustments they’ve made to all the characters and so forth that it’s forcing them to make certain classes, role specific based.
I think ele support is too strong in power relative to pre-HoT levels, and could use a little bit of toning down (not removal). Now, Anet doesn’t know how to tone down, so in their book that means like a 90% reduction, when maybe a 15-20% reduction would be appropriate (as long as they also nerf scrappers, revs, reapers, druids, dragon hunters, et al. when they do this). The baseline for comparison is bunker guard, which just can’t nearly keep up with support ele.
At the same time they make this adjustment, they have some real work to do to bring other defenses to the class and open up roles other than heal-bot in pvp. Un-nerfing RtL, putting arcane shield on a much shorter CD, un-nerfing the fire line, adding some more damage to scepter autos are all changes that could help in that regard.
I think ele support is too strong in power relative to pre-HoT levels, and could use a little bit of toning down (not removal). Now, Anet doesn’t know how to tone down, so in their book that means like a 90% reduction, when maybe a 15-20% reduction would be appropriate (as long as they also nerf scrappers, revs, reapers, druids, dragon hunters, et al. when they do this). The baseline for comparison is bunker guard, which just can’t nearly keep up with support ele.
At the same time they make this adjustment, they have some real work to do to bring other defenses to the class and open up roles other than heal-bot in pvp. Un-nerfing RtL, putting arcane shield on a much shorter CD, un-nerfing the fire line, adding some more damage to scepter autos are all changes that could help in that regard.
Not that I would not agree with you, but overall doing that would take a lot of “resources and time”. I don’t know how Anet runs or how it’s cash flow and profits come from; but I’d imagine that they’ve lessened their employeement since the game became f2p. If my assumptions are correct…the main reason why they don’t want to do that is due to the fact that it’s just too much work for them. Could be dead wrong though.
I know Tera Online was successful for a while back then…due to their overwhelming cash shop items (Not even anything that increases stats or pvp/pve) it was costumes that bought Tera tons of money…which thus they had the resources to supply their devs and gms.
Here’s another assumption to rattle your brain on. Could they be trying to make pvp faster (more smash keys faster), overall making the battle scene more faster by increasing all these classes. Maybe they’re trying to make it a never ending game…to the point where you can never have a “stable” rotation or tatic for certain classes because they’re always coming out with ways to counter the “basic” rotations and “macros”
I play ele for over half a year (started GW2 last year). Startet PvP with HOT.
Support is not overpowerd in the current environement. Shure tempest support outshines all basic classen. Thats the direction. HOT classes are more powerful also called power creep….
But as said in high competative play, support seems the best and unfortunately only good option for elementalist. I try a semi support and its good till now but i did not reach top level. I won most in the season2 and now feel competition. Hard focus fire and that i can´t stand 1:2 very long annymore. Its good for me beause now real training starts. One mistake now can whipe the party ;-).
I will see if i can keep a diffrent build or i have to go full support. While i always enjoy healers i realy prefer offensive support not 100% bunkering. So i am tempted to use sage, currently run mercenaries and wanderers plays realy good for me. I now always run soldier rune and i am not happy that it seems to outshine evrything else when playing tempest because this means low diversity ….
I have a problem with ele builds. I always hated to trait water and dislike cleric amulet ^^. I used settlers for a bunker setup which was the only full support setup i liked and it was hellish anoying ;-). Never used cele except a few tests.
So i am fine playing non meta. Yes i play a lot support which is strong on ele and pure damage builds won´t work well enough.
(edited by Wolfric.9380)