Guild Wars 2

As a general consensus Tempest will be bringing nothing new to the table of elementalist, unlike other elite specs. Tempest just brings more aura traits, more reliance on boons as our only defence, and more team healing. All things we can already do, and do do just fine. Ele is already the definition of the bruser class in PVP. Karl I have no idea what you were thinking when you said “We would like ele to move to more of a support bruiser class” (paraphrasing of course) We litterally have the best support, healing, boonshare in the game. Not only that but you gave us another trash tier elite that doesn’t even make sense as a tempest. You have my and many others feedback all over the forums.

Question
Are you willing to rework tempest completely based on feedback from the ele forms and work with us to build something that will Truly bring us something new (and actually be viable..)?

I was hoping for a viable DPS build in pvp. Maybe with a new mainhand. Now i can only hope for some rework at the scepter that will still be an underpower burst spec

lucadiro.4519:

I was hoping for a viable DPS build in pvp. Maybe with a new mainhand. Now i can only hope for some rework at the scepter that will still be an underpower burst spec

As was I but we lost this when they chose WH over Sword or literally any main hand that could bring a cadence similar to scepter burst rotations but in melee, and self defense sustain like evades blocks and blinds to stay alive in melee.

I agree scepter needs a rework as well, as do half our utilities, some other wep skills, and all of our elites.

We’ll probably have to wait until we can use Tempest in an open beta before they’ll be extremely receptive to feedback from the playerbase (see revenant as an example), even though most of us have pretty clear ideas to make it better (see my thread on fixing the traitline).

I will say that my main problem with it is that, there is no real trait to give us more dmg. I do serious damage as an ele, did 34k to a vet thrasher, and right now with the traits that if I go into Tempest, when I saw tempest I kinda wanted something to give me a survivability, and give us some trait to give us dmg. Sadly our best choice for Trooper runes, I would hurt my build. I will say that I like the ovreload ability has some good combo protential. I just think we need some more condie strip and a trait that gives us a 10% dmg buff atleast

Mahuyo.3079:

I will say that my main problem with it is that, there is no real trait to give us more dmg.

That’s just how it is. It doesn’t have an option to increase damage because it wasn’t meant to really do much, it was designed for support. Maybe next x-pack they’ll be releasing the droid you guys are looking for, although I wouldn’t bet on it considering how good ele is at dps already. Guess we can just hope that they’ll take suggestions and work to make Tempest more able to fill the melee group support role it was meant for without flopping to cc and long recharges. I’m hoping that it’ll end up quite a bit better than it is now before launch. It has high potential to be good, at least if they give it the attention it needs.

The main problem of Tempest is IMHO that it’s simply not worth even using because it doesn’t offer anything new. Fire still only gives might and burns, water heals and cleanses, air damages and earth protects.

We can already do all that in the same spec and it’s basically all instant while we’re actually doing stuff. So why should we ever risk the overload and therefore the whole point of being Tempest?

I mean theres shout aura-heal builds that could be pretty decent at providing support, but it still looks like support guardian would be a more optimal choice for higher tier play. Although that doesn’t mean that tempest wouldn’t be viable, even if its not an optimal choice.

They said repeatedly that they want Tempest to be a front line build. The problem is not with this concept. The problem isn’t even with the Warhorn as a weapon either.. The problem was they gave virtually none of the necessary tools to hang on the front line and instead just gave us a bunch of support utility we already had as a class. If that was all we needed to be on the front line, we would already be there.

Kodiak.3281:

They said repeatedly that they want Tempest to be a front line build. The problem is not with this concept. The problem isn’t even with the Warhorn as a weapon either.. The problem was they gave virtually none of the necessary tools to hang on the front line and instead just gave us a bunch of support utility we already had as a class. If that was all we needed to be on the front line, we would already be there.

First Rule of Frontline Club: Bring enough stability.

Tempest doesn’t have a single trait or skill that grants stability, WHAT? In a spec all about channeling long casts? Seriously?

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

First Rule of Frontline Club: Bring enough stability.

Tempest doesn’t have a single trait or skill that grants stability, WHAT? In a spec all about channeling long casts? Seriously?

The craziest thing is it’d be so easy for them to use all the same tools/mechanics/etc they already got and make a decent frontline character.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Tempest doesn’t have a single trait or skill that grants stability, WHAT? In a spec all about channeling long casts? Seriously?

Did you look at the traits?

Lucid Singularity.

Chobits.2430:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Tempest doesn’t have a single trait or skill that grants stability, WHAT? In a spec all about channeling long casts? Seriously?

Did you look at the traits?

Lucid Singularity.

You should probably look up what stability is. Hint: its a buff that protects you from certain disables, more specifically ones that stop the channeling of spells.

If ele was seen as the jack of all trades how would any thing added to ele bring something new? If you do every thing as is what else is there? Any way tempest is a lot better at boon sharing vs say a d/d on ele. Also tempest has an added skill that makes existing boons last longer there IS nothing on ele that works this way and there nothing in the game that works this way.

What else where you looking for more dmg?

Jski.6180:

If ele was seen as the jack of all trades how would any thing added to ele bring something new? If you do every thing as is what else is there? Any way tempest is a lot better at boon sharing vs say a d/d on ele. Also tempest has an added skill that makes existing boons last longer there IS nothing on ele that works this way and there nothing in the game that works this way.

What else where you looking for more dmg?

Not necessarily, we have damage we just cant use it. We were looking for a new way to play, not just water/arcane celestial cantrips. Some of us have been around since beta, the play-style hasn’t changed, ever. And this spec isn’t changing it. We needed a new method of survivability, something other than boons and healing to supplement our kitten tier hp/armor. The utilites had to compete on the level of cantrips to keeping us alive, the elite only had to not suck, the weapon needed to bring a new playstyle and without it being mainhand/twohand it cant do that. The devs were lazy 12-20 skills AND animations were too much so they went with WH 1 animation and 8 skills.

There’s lots of ways to add new mechanics to the existing class to make it play like a new one. For example mobility. Elementalist doesn’t have any of the characteristic low mobility cd moves of Warriors/Guardians who currently make up the front line (IE: savage leap, leap of faith, etc).

I’d make a new post on how to do it, but making a new post is broken for me at the moment :P

I dont think they gotta remake it,especially cuz its already done and they WONT create a whole new specialization.
Its cool the way it is,they just gotta work on traits,add some stuff on shouts and give some boost to overload to make it worth using it.

dtox.8397:

I dont think they gotta remake it,especially cuz its already done and they WONT create a whole new specialization.
Its cool the way it is,they just gotta work on traits,add some stuff on shouts and give some boost to overload to make it worth using it.

Really don’t have to create a new specialization. Simply modify some warhorn skills, few traits, and it’s pretty much front line capable.

Without the changes however it’s simply not. It’s essentially missing the two most important traits of a front line fighter (leap mobility and stability).

Jski.6180:

If ele was seen as the jack of all trades how would any thing added to ele bring something new? If you do every thing as is what else is there? Any way tempest is a lot better at boon sharing vs say a d/d on ele. Also tempest has an added skill that makes existing boons last longer there IS nothing on ele that works this way and there nothing in the game that works this way.

What else where you looking for more dmg?

Currently ele can reasonably fulfill the following roles:
PvE: High aoe dps; Damage + support (for instance air/water/arcana with focus)
WvW: Back-line dps/control/support; Skirmish bruiser roamer; Burst roamer (although not very good)
PvP: High support bruiser; Bad burst build

What could have been new:
- A reasonable means of applying more condis to make a non-gimmicky condi build
- A reasonable high mobility, high-defense weapon to enhance a roaming dps-role
- A single-target (non-aoe) ranged weapon that actually works well at long range, like pistols.
- Actual front-line capability through high stability, blocks, cc, and leaps
- A method to support a non-rotational playstyle, by specializing in 1 attunement while the others are used sparingly (like current fire-camping staff ele, but outside of just pvp)

Instead, this spec just gave an option to do more of the same. Literally, every overload just does the same thing as swapping through attunements, just with an adjusted CD. They would have been better off highlighting the aura-mancer playstyle, and made that a specialization (this would have required re-working some of the current trait-lines so that they could enhance auramancy without having almost necessary traits spread in every line).

Agreed with OP, but I see one issue with what he said..

OneKlicKill.4285:

. You have my and many others feedback all over the forums.

Unfortunately forum mods took it upon themselves to make sharing feedback as hard as possibly by mindlessly merging threads into unreadable blobs or out right deleting constructive topics…

Nutshel.7264:

Agreed with OP, but I see one issue with what he said..

OneKlicKill.4285:

. You have my and many others feedback all over the forums.

Unfortunately forum mods took it upon themselves to make sharing feedback as hard as possibly by mindlessly merging threads into unreadable blobs or out right deleting constructive topics…

Very True, many good topics got merged into that mega thread and each time it killed the discussion. But if we actually got some feedback from the Devs and them saying they want to work with the playerbase and take feedback in. I’d have no problem spending a few hours and compiling it in a document easy to read and such. I’m just not going to go through the effort if the devs refuse to care.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Jski.6180:

If ele was seen as the jack of all trades how would any thing added to ele bring something new? If you do every thing as is what else is there? Any way tempest is a lot better at boon sharing vs say a d/d on ele. Also tempest has an added skill that makes existing boons last longer there IS nothing on ele that works this way and there nothing in the game that works this way.

What else where you looking for more dmg?

Not necessarily, we have damage we just cant use it. We were looking for a new way to play, not just water/arcane celestial cantrips. Some of us have been around since beta, the play-style hasn’t changed, ever. And this spec isn’t changing it. We needed a new method of survivability, something other than boons and healing to supplement our kitten tier hp/armor. The utilites had to compete on the level of cantrips to keeping us alive, the elite only had to not suck, the weapon needed to bring a new playstyle and without it being mainhand/twohand it cant do that. The devs were lazy 12-20 skills AND animations were too much so they went with WH 1 animation and 8 skills.

You can already play with out water and arcain just ppl are way to fearfully to give up there safety blanket. There would be nothing new about getting a new wepon for the ele class becuse there are set things in the game that you can do such as healing is still healing even if you use a different wepon or set up. Def is still def attks are still attk etc.. what it sounds like is that you want there to be made up a new type of hp system or a 3ed bar for ele to use as a def tool or as something ele can attk and do dmg to. And yet that still not a new way to play the game its just another name for hp.

Ele can do every thing there is nothing new that can be added to the ele class that makes it do something different because there is nothing in the game that ele cant do. This is what a jack of all trades means. The only way a specialization could get away from this is by removing effects from the ele class and in some ways tempest is losing some dmg mostly due to the tempest line having no real full on dmg effect and in turn they are getting boon effects. Tempest specialization is party support at the cost of dmg. If the tempest did not give up dmg then tempest would just be a better version of ele or power creep (you can make the argument that tempest is still a type of power creep or all specialization becuse they do not remove enofe to become specialized in one type of play.)

That is what should specialization should be giving up something to get something else like giving up attk for def or support for debuffs etc.. If you just wanted power creep there are many mmorpgs that offer this at a high level i suggest you play one of these games.

Again i feel like their boon sharing/support mentality wouldnt work because that will just make the elementalist weaker than it already is. spells to give small boons or extend durations/break stuns and reduce cooldowns by tiny amounts (elite looking at you) is laughable compared to classes that can hold off on their own which usually bring the boons they need on their own and manage their cooldowns on their own. the elementalist as it is can already do enough boonsharing and is in a fairly good place as d/d. Intrudocing the tempest like this is just trying to repeat the same thing in a more diminishing way, not to mention the long durations for the so called ‘’devastating that you’d wanna run from’’ overloads, which really arent that threating, gimme something like meteor shower… also lacking stability to support the ludicrous channeling times in melee range just makes it worse.

BlackBeard.2873:

- A single-target (non-aoe) ranged weapon that actually works well at long range, like pistols.

The problem isn’t that such a weapon doesn’t exist, but rather that it’s just plain bad. I would rather see scepter reworked than an elite spec wasted on something ele should already have.

There’s no general consensus if there’s obviously multiple opinions. There may be a majority that dislikes it, sure.

You’re calling out to work with, but don’t want to wait to have your hands on the actual skills and there’s people mostly calling out Karl for being sucky at designing it. I don’t think that is a good basis to start something like a CDI for. The condescending atmosphere is very deconstructive at the moment. Calling for a full rework now is like swiping the board and telling the developer to start over. And you think you’re going to get taken seriously? That’s not even realistic.

You would be way more convincing to call out a test during next beta (to begin with) and get some good numbers and actually putting forth suggestions for making the warhorn and the overcharge abilities work. Like post your ideas how you would make it work.

That’s not to say that it’s a bad idea to have a CDI for future specialisations btw. That does seem like a good idea.

Treetoptrickster.4205:

Mahuyo.3079:

I will say that my main problem with it is that, there is no real trait to give us more dmg.

That’s just how it is. It doesn’t have an option to increase damage because it wasn’t meant to really do much, it was designed for support. Maybe next x-pack they’ll be releasing the droid you guys are looking for, although I wouldn’t bet on it considering how good ele is at dps already. Guess we can just hope that they’ll take suggestions and work to make Tempest more able to fill the melee group support role it was meant for without flopping to cc and long recharges. I’m hoping that it’ll end up quite a bit better than it is now before launch. It has high potential to be good, at least if they give it the attention it needs.

That is what i’m saying I think every line (except earth) has a dmg bonus, now I think that “Bountiful Boons” would have been the best trait for dmg in tempest. But I don’t think everything is set in stone ju add t yet.

Anet might make a few changes. Don’t expect them to completely rework the concept.

Remember kids, you don’t HAVE to go Tempest.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Remember kids, you don’t HAVE to go Tempest.

With your dumb logic, you don’t have to play the game either. Did you also know, you did not have to read or post in this thread either? The fact of the matter is the tempest sucks and simply trying to avoid it isn’t going to make it less sucky. Especially since I am pretty sure the expansion is going to being introducing a significant power creep.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Remember kids, you don’t HAVE to go Tempest.

Then why are we buying the expansion?

You were buying the expac based on a single class’ eight new skills? Kind of pigeon holing yourself there. I hope then that Tempest is all it can be.

I think the more important question than we don’t have to go Tempest is why would we go Tempest in the current state? When you consider all the current game modes, there’s no where where the Tempest fits. In PvP the D/D option is superior. In PvE and WvW the Staff options are superior. There’s no where it fits and something as cool as a Specialization should have some kind of place in the game. The kind of “Well you’re already so awesome” excuse will ultimately mean we’ll never get anything cool which is disappointing.

Especially when there’s ways to make their existing idea actually work and bring something new to the table.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Kodiak.3281:

They said repeatedly that they want Tempest to be a front line build. The problem is not with this concept. The problem isn’t even with the Warhorn as a weapon either.. The problem was they gave virtually none of the necessary tools to hang on the front line and instead just gave us a bunch of support utility we already had as a class. If that was all we needed to be on the front line, we would already be there.

First Rule of Frontline Club: Bring enough stability.

Tempest doesn’t have a single trait or skill that grants stability, WHAT? In a spec all about channeling long casts? Seriously?

Reaper is (almost) the same thing, with the difference we at least get some from that one shroud skill and the elite shout (actually, scrap the eliteshout bit, too much of a casttime and CD to be a viable source of stab). Aswell as massively lacking stability from the base class (ele at least has that)… You really have to wonder wtf they are thinking.