Guild Wars 2

As a fellow Elementalist, I can tell you right now that we can escape much more easily than any other profession (aside from thieves, who stealth and disengage). It is a tad bit OP but I think this can easily be fixed by making cripple and chilled affect all movement abilities including ride the lightning, burning speed, the roll on updraft, and mist form as long as it was applied previously to skill activation etc. etc.

This will hopefully bring the Elementalist (I have no grudges against Eles, I sure do enjoy playing mine) down to par with the rest of the professions in terms of escaping and simply buzzing around like a mad man.

Ulysses.4765:

I think this can easily be fixed by making cripple and chilled affect all movement abilities including ride the lightning, burning speed, the roll on updraft, and mist form as long as it was applied previously to skill activation etc. etc.

It’s already like that, Burning Speed is effected by chill and cripple just like you suggest. During RTL you can still take damage or be knocked down. As far as mist form though I can’t say for sure but IMO as it’s a stun breaker I don’t think it should be effected by anything.

Ulysses.4765:

As a fellow Elementalist, I can tell you right now that we can escape much more easily than any other profession (aside from thieves, who stealth and disengage). It is a tad bit OP but I think this can easily be fixed by making cripple and chilled affect all movement abilities including ride the lightning, burning speed, the roll on updraft, and mist form as long as it was applied previously to skill activation etc. etc.

This will hopefully bring the Elementalist (I have no grudges against Eles, I sure do enjoy playing mine) down to par with the rest of the professions in terms of escaping and simply buzzing around like a mad man.

I smell a non-ele fellow, despite what you said. But I do agree to some extend, especially vs D/D, I believe one of the reason we will not get to see any major buffs to ele’s damage (staff) is because the class, overall, is really safe to run away with when things get tough.

What I dont agree with you on is saying that we can scape easier than thief or mesmer. If any of them truly decides to escape, there is absolutely nothing you can really do to prevent it, since stealth has no counter in this game, and they also have a lot of mobility, yet they seem to out damage us in any way.

Once again, please dont use the “as a fellow ele” excuse, it is a lie, a dirty lie to gain the forums “trust” but we can all see through it. As long as we dont have the damage of a mesmer/thief, I will not agree with the only thing that makes playing eles bearable; running away when things get bad (that unless you play D/D, things WILL go bad for you all the time)

Mobility is our main form of survivability. We can’t really take a hit to that without getting either a damage, toughness or healing boost to compensate. If we can’t move around to avoid damage we are sitting ducks since we don’t have the stealth from thieves or the area denial + mitigation tools of the guardian.

Ulysses.4765:

As a fellow Elementalist, maining a thief….

fixed for you …..
as i could do for 99% of any post complaining about elementalist.

You think rtl is too good?
Do you know wich is considered the slowest class around? mesmer.

try a traited blink.
1200 breaks stun teleport….
Portal
(perma swiftness can be obtained equally)
For tanking purposes look at immortal mesmer….

Then try a warrior…
Its not as easy to understand but a war can obtain slightly better mobility than an elementalist.

Thief?
Stealth + mobility was already the worst idea i ever saw in a game (notice how usually stealth massively REDUCE mobility in most other games)
They also added damage kitten just in case…..

I do agree with the OP. I think the elementalist’s movement skills such as Ride the Lightning SHOULD be affected by cripples and chills just like any other class. The fact that elementalists can go straight through crippling AOEs without any affect on their movement until they come out of the skill’s effect does seem kind of overpowered to me. The warrior can’t do that with Rush, why should the elementalist be able to?

My elementalist is only a measly level 28 but I can still go into WvW and roll face. And if I can’t roll face, I can run away so easily that I can literally pick and choose who to engage, when and where. That just doesn’t seem right, especially since I have almost no traits.

I have 8 characters, one of each class, and all of them are level 80 except for my ranger and elementalist (ranger is level 70, elementalist is level 28). No other class comes remotely close to the absurd amount of mobility that the elementalist has (which in PvP/WvW translates to gap control). Not even a thief with a shortbow can truly compete (though they come as close as you can get without having Ride the Lightning or a long-range Mesmer manipulation-traited Blink).

CrazyAce.3842:

I do agree with the OP. I think the elementalist’s movement skills such as Ride the Lightning SHOULD be affected by cripples and chills just like any other class. .

how?
like mesmer 1200 range blink?

Or warrior with tons of stability skills? (its almost impossible in www to reach a warrior for a X/D ele if the warrior knows how to play)
Or thief with stealth cond removals and movement?

If you look carefully you will notice lot of rtl like skills across professions….

That unless you want to destroy the only skill that makes 2 wesponset viable that i suspect is what people are asking….

No other class comes remotely close to the absurd amount of mobility that the elementalist has

infact when u say this its clear you don t know what you are talking about….

LordByron.8369:

infact when u say this its clear you don t know what you are talking about….

Actually, I do know what I’m talking about. I’ve played this game for well over a year-and-a-half now, going on two years, thank you very much.

Mesmer has to TRAIT into that 1200 Blink, otherwise it’s only 900. Not very many mesmers trait into Manipulation-specialization, since usually mesmers pick more offensive traits like greatsword, pistol, sword, or glamour enhancing traits.

All the elementalist has to do to get the full 1200 range Ride the Lightning is press 4 while a OH dagger is equipped.

Don’t get me wrong —- I am NOT calling for another nerf to the skill itself. Anet already did that with the CD increase from 15 to 20 seconds. What I want is for the elementalist to be affected by movement-impairing conditions while using the skill like any other class is when using their respective skills. If you think that isn’t fair then you seriously need to reevaluate what you think “fair” constitutes.

And the fact that your post makes you look like you’re a 12-year old who’s texting on a cell phone doesn’t help your argument at all. There’s this thing, old-fashioned and outdated though it is… it’s called grammar.

Only RtL is not affected by movement reducing conditions, rest are normally slowed down. If you moan about mist form, why won’t you go on engineer forum and moan about elixir s?

CrazyAce.3842:

Don’t get me wrong —- I am NOT calling for another nerf to the skill itself. Anet already did that with the CD increase from 15 to 20 seconds. What I want is for the elementalist to be affected by movement-impairing conditions while using the skill like any other class is when using their respective skills. If you think that isn’t fair then you seriously need to reevaluate what you think “fair” constitutes.

Sure, just make it so you can use utility skills, attunement change and be affected by swiftness, just like any other class skill is.

haviz.1340:

Only RtL is not affected by movement reducing conditions, rest are normally slowed down. If you moan about mist form, why won’t you go on engineer forum and moan about elixir s?

Sure, just make it so you can use utility skills, attunement change and be affected by swiftness, just like any other class skill is.

I never said anything about Mist Form. It’s a great skill. I also said nothing about Elixir S. I also think that’s a great skill, too. They’re also utilities, both with very long cooldowns, even when traited.

Swiftness doesn’t affect those skills. Swiftness has nothing to do with the argument I was making. Please keep up.

CrazyAce.3842:

Mesmer has to TRAIT into that 1200 Blink, otherwise it’s only 900.

ele has to go dagger offhand…
Not to mention to invest 30 points in arcana just to play :/

Not very many mesmers trait into Manipulation-specialization, since usually mesmers pick more offensive traits like greatsword, pistol, sword, or glamour enhancing traits.

So if rtl its OP how comes mesmer don t care to have a BETTER RTL?

What I want is for the elementalist to be affected by movement-impairing conditions while using the skill like any other class is when using their respective skills.

yeah u don t know profession and are asking unreasonable nerfs i don t even know why i am answering you…

As i said when you have just a 75 CD stability skill and cannot survive 3 seconds in melee.

If you think that isn’t fair then you seriously need to reevaluate what you think “fair” constitutes.

I have given reasons…
You didn t

Offensive and balanced (even tanky not cantrip) builds needs RTL as it is.
Cantrip ele would be less hit by that….
So that is why you are completely unreasonable….as most of players that don t know what they are talking about but come to forum asking for nerfs everywhere….

RTL is not even the best movement skill in the game its maybe the 4th.

And the fact that your post makes you look like you’re a 12-year old who’s texting on a cell phone doesn’t help your argument at all. There’s this thing, old-fashioned and outdated though it is… it’s called grammar.

-assuming your native Language is the only in the world…..check
-insulting peope when you run out of facts…..check

You know this sentence and behavior is the classic cliché from online immature flamers?

You could also want to read netiquette just to see how wrong you are.

^ You clearly don’t want to listen to simple and logical reasons for wanting a single skill to be affected by cripple/chill (when other classes’ gap control skills ARE affected), so I won’t try with you.

I won’t say anything to sPVP/tPVP because I don’t play those modes often enough. I also think in closer quarters like most of the PVP maps are the elementalist’s high mobility isn’t quite as game-breaking, though it is very useful.

But I seriously doubt you’ve ever stepped foot in WvW and realized that an elementalist can go in an instant from right next to you to out of combat too far for you to catch. No other class can do that as easily. Only other classes that come close are the thief (who can stealth and spam Heartseeker or Shortbow 5 to flee) and mesmer (who could possibly Portal out if they set it up beforehand, or use Staff 2 + Blink if they were quick enough), but even those can’t do it as quickly.

I wasn’t quoting you about mist form. And swiftness does affect leaps and movement skills.

Ulysses.4765:

It is a tad bit OP but I think this can easily be fixed by making cripple and chilled affect all movement abilities including ride the lightning, burning speed, the roll on updraft, and mist form as long as it was applied previously to skill activation etc. etc.

The only skill that isn’t affected by cripple/chill is Ride the Lightning, all other movement skills are affected. Aside from that, yes, they could make RtL be affected by cripple/chill, but also make it a movement skill, not a transform, so the whole skillbar is available to use for the duration, including attunement swap and utilities, also like every other movement ability is should be affected by swiftness too.

Be careful what you are asking.

LordByron.8369:

Ulysses.4765:

As a fellow Elementalist, maining a thief….

fixed for you …..
as i could do for 99% of any post complaining about elementalist.

You think rtl is too good?
Do you know wich is considered the slowest class around? mesmer.

try a traited blink.
1200 breaks stun teleport….
Portal
(perma swiftness can be obtained equally)
For tanking purposes look at immortal mesmer….

Then try a warrior…
Its not as easy to understand but a war can obtain slightly better mobility than an elementalist.

Thief?
Stealth + mobility was already the worst idea i ever saw in a game (notice how usually stealth massively REDUCE mobility in most other games)
They also added damage kitten just in case…..

Your examples are all bad ones.
The reasoning is the following: Opportunity cost.
A mesmer needs to grab a focus for perma swiftness or use centaur runes. Either one severely impairs their other possibilities.Grabbing a focus for swiftness means letting go of any offensive capabilities you might have gotten out of an offhand sword or a pistol and letting go of any condition application and stealth, you might have gotten from a torch. It’s one weapon, which is mostly only good for the temporal curtain(which, honestly, is an amazing skill) and not much else.
An elementalist? The dagger used to get RTL grants: a defensive shielding aura and a heal with cond removal, a great fire field, with uncapped burning application(triggers burning on walking through ring), a huge damage spike, a big cc skill and a long windup huge damage pbaoe. Oh, and an AoE launch.

Same with the warrior. Yes, a warrior can theoretically outrun an elementalist:
Sword+warhorn, Greatsword. Hf hitting any non-pve mob with that setup for more than 5k damage in the frame of 10 seconds. You throw away almost every cc you have and only got sword burst → instaswap → 100blades as decent finisher.
D/D ele is not strong because of the great mobility but because they need to throw away almost nothing(yes, the defensive skills from the focus are amazing) for it.
If ele had to make any sacrifices for that kind of mobility, no1 would complain.
Ok, people would still complain, cause they like to complain, but that is not the point I’m trying to make here.

If you don’t have to throw anything that means you’re only complaining about rtl. It has same recharge as rush, only difference are mechanics. And focus for mes is standard pvp weapon.

d/d elementalists: the only class that can rush into a zerg get focus fired at and still come back out alive.

As an elementalist we only have light armor and in some cases especially when fighting veterans we should be able to easily kill them but instead if we dont use our most powerful attack get killed by our poor exotic light armor.

I have to disagree with OP. My perspective is less mechanics/balance and more lore based. RTL – skill description begins with “Ride the lightning to your foe”. Lightning being essentially pure energy, would not be influence by physical movement altering effects – e.g. not slowed by cripple or chilled.

In fact, one could make the argument that it should remove the chilled effect – sitting on plasma would leave you a bit chafed and warm, not chilled

skwatson.1769:

I have to disagree with OP. My perspective is less mechanics/balance and more lore based. RTL – skill description begins with “Ride the lightning to your foe”. Lightning being essentially pure energy, would not be influence by physical movement altering effects – e.g. not slowed by cripple or chilled.

In fact, one could make the argument that it should remove the chilled effect – sitting on plasma would leave you a bit chafed and warm, not chilled

per the description then you should only be able to use it when targeting a foe to ride to them; not away from them to escape.

Folk.2093:

skwatson.1769:

I have to disagree with OP. My perspective is less mechanics/balance and more lore based. RTL – skill description begins with “Ride the lightning to your foe”. Lightning being essentially pure energy, would not be influence by physical movement altering effects – e.g. not slowed by cripple or chilled.

In fact, one could make the argument that it should remove the chilled effect – sitting on plasma would leave you a bit chafed and warm, not chilled

per the description then you should only be able to use it when targeting a foe to ride to them; not away from them to escape.

Per the description also, while using RtL you should be immune to damage as you are now a living lightning bolt

Whirling Attack, rush, savage leap, bull’s charge, leap of faith, swoop and so on? I don’t think you get a memo where anet devs were praising their combat system how you could use skills without any target active.

The Elementalist forum, where Eles are the squishiest class and everything else is OP.

Eles don’t need mobility to survive, they simply abuse it to survive in situations where they shouldn’t be able to, like in a 5v1 scenario.

Fortus.6175:

Ulysses.4765:

As a fellow Elementalist, I can tell you right now that we can escape much more easily than any other profession (aside from thieves, who stealth and disengage). It is a tad bit OP but I think this can easily be fixed by making cripple and chilled affect all movement abilities including ride the lightning, burning speed, the roll on updraft, and mist form as long as it was applied previously to skill activation etc. etc.

This will hopefully bring the Elementalist (I have no grudges against Eles, I sure do enjoy playing mine) down to par with the rest of the professions in terms of escaping and simply buzzing around like a mad man.

I smell a non-ele fellow, despite what you said. But I do agree to some extend, especially vs D/D, I believe one of the reason we will not get to see any major buffs to ele’s damage (staff) is because the class, overall, is really safe to run away with when things get tough.

What I dont agree with you on is saying that we can scape easier than thief or mesmer. If any of them truly decides to escape, there is absolutely nothing you can really do to prevent it, since stealth has no counter in this game, and they also have a lot of mobility, yet they seem to out damage us in any way.

Once again, please dont use the “as a fellow ele” excuse, it is a lie, a dirty lie to gain the forums “trust” but we can all see through it. As long as we dont have the damage of a mesmer/thief, I will not agree with the only thing that makes playing eles bearable; running away when things get bad (that unless you play D/D, things WILL go bad for you all the time)

Stealth has counters…aoe and game knowledge. I started as a thief, and am leveling up a DPS elementalist. If you have not played a thief extensively then you will have no clue what the thief is doing, or where he is moving when stealthed.

Coming from thief class to ele, it’s a lot easier to read where and what a thief is doing from having played the class.

avilo.1923

Stealth has counters…aoe and game knowledge. I started as a thief, and am leveling up a DPS elementalist. If you have not played a thief extensively then you will have no clue what the thief is doing, or where he is moving when stealthed.

Coming from thief class to ele, it’s a lot easier to read where and what a thief is doing from having played the class.

I have to disagree – you can only predict a bad thief in stealth. You will never truly catch a good thief, because stealth provides a situation where you can see your enemy’s movement while concealing yours. Unless cornered, on conquest, or attacking from stealth, you won’t be able to catch a competent thief if he wants to get away, similar to arguments about eles RTLing away.

I’ve played ele primarily before going to thief (both 80 pve, rank 20-30 pvp by thief) and it is obscenely easier to read your enemies actions in stealth and react to it, and with no real hard counter to detect stealth, you can juke away while watching your enemies frantically throwing random aoe in the distance.

Folk.2093:

d/d elementalists: the only class that can rush into a zerg get focus fired at and still come back out alive.

This.

Dahir.4158:

Folk.2093:

d/d elementalists: the only class that can rush into a zerg get focus fired at and still come back out alive.

This.

And if the ele can do that, it won’t kill a single thing in that zerg before being forced to retreat. So what’s the problem? Thieves can do pretty much the same thing with stealth, except you can’t see which direction they ran off to.

Yeah, it’s pretty ridiculous that the class with the lowest armor and health pool, and no access to stealth, should ever be able to get into or out of a fight, especially when locked into a fully melee range weapon set. Just stand still and die, stupid clothie!

Apparently one movement skill which ignores cripple and chill (but acts as a nifty 3 second self-stun if anyone uses immobilize) is OP on the squishiest class, but the toughest class can trait to remove immobilize on their 1200 range rush or blow their horn which removes all movement impairments, or hey, both, cause, like, weapon swap.

I’m breaking my sarcasm meter on this one, going to take it for repairs now.

(I’ve written pages on this topic before, specifically analyzing and comparing different class builds and their relative defense/offense capabilities. People don’t change their opinions based on reading well thought out posts though, so I’m not going to bother anymore. Suffice to say, after close to 2,000 hours playing multiple classes, 1,300 or so on elementalist alone trying all different builds, I don’t believe RTL is in any way unbalanced, unless you consider running away to be winning.)

Vayra.3290:

Dahir.4158:

Folk.2093:

d/d elementalists: the only class that can rush into a zerg get focus fired at and still come back out alive.

This.

And if the ele can do that, it won’t kill a single thing in that zerg before being forced to retreat. So what’s the problem? Thieves can do pretty much the same thing with stealth, except you can’t see which direction they ran off to.

We can tag every single enemy in that zerg and once they’re all dead we’ll have tons of wxp

Thrashbarg.9820:

Yeah, it’s pretty ridiculous that the class with the lowest armor and health pool, and no access to stealth, should ever be able to get into or out of a fight, especially when locked into a fully melee range weapon set. Just stand still and die, stupid clothie!

I don’t believe RTL is in any way unbalanced, unless you consider running away to be winning.)

Thanks for this.

To summarise: RtL should work like any other movement skill on a class with perma-swiftness and crazy condition removal? That would increase the average range of RtL. I’m okay with that.

Before you people cry about imbalance please post a video of you playing and your build so the community can determine whether you have a right to your claims. I’m 99% sure most of the cry babies either have sub par gear, builds, and movement (Back peddle, Clicking, Key turning, not dodge rolling). I strongly believe if these things apply to you then you have no right to come to the forums and whine. You are not playing the best you can be playing so of course good people are going to make short work of you “handicapped gamers”.

Ok, few lines. I mained thief for 3-4 months, mained ele for 2 months or abouts. Only for D/D Spec, nothing else really.

I’ve played most specs and classes…why? I had a main identity crisis where I wasn’t sure what I wanted as my main. Having tried them all, I found D/D Ele to be the easiest spec, to the point it was mind numbingly easy. Just spam skills, Swap attune etc.

To put it into perspective, I was rolling face on an ele with lvl 65 Blue’s and greens all over, and surviving way more, than any other class, with exotics. Its OP. Anet knows this, and any player worth his salt does. Its already announced its getting nerfed, and I await the day so I can finally play my ele and actually play something interesting.

As for other specs, Staff sucks at roaming, granted, I don’t mind buffs to its capabilities there, and in fact welcome them.

Focus, could use some changes and traits need some love too. S/D?

S/D is the only weaponset I feel justifies the effectiveness of 0/10/0/30/30 or any other variants as it actually requires skill and know how. Its a high skill cap play for a rewarding experience. When I see a S/D win, i only clap. Heck you don’t even need to target anything on D/D, show me one other spec that can do that. I’ll show you D/D ele can’t, add me to friends, I’ll be happy to show.

^First, if they nerf D/D they’ll buff something else. They already made adjustment to RtL so I doubt it will get any attention. Only way to reduce d/d’s is to buff other weapons.

D/D is more of a single-target kill and even in WvW it’s effectiveness isn’t that great compared to Staff’s AoE.

I can see how people are frustrating when Ele escapes from their hands, I feel the same when I go after Thieves and Mesmers. Do I go there and QQ how their mobility is OP? No.
Instead of just QQing find a way to counter their builds.

S/D has a nice way of dealing damage but not in the build u posted.

Like I said, this is where you know difference between pros and amateurs. No ele will tell you the secrets of killing them, you gotta learn it yourself. Just like I had to learn how to kill thieves and mesmers

Saying they’re unkillable usually means that you’re full berzerk and used to getting things killed in 2 blows and when presented with a challenge you go and QQ on boards how some professions are impossible to kill

That’s not OP at all… You run away and live, your opponent can’t catch you and they live.

Fortus.6175:

…
What I dont agree with you on is saying that we can scape easier than thief or mesmer. If any of them truly decides to escape, there is absolutely nothing you can really do to prevent it, since stealth has no counter in this game, and they also have a lot of mobility, yet they seem to out damage us in any way.
..

Ah, I love the Ele forums. This is ignorance at it’s finest.

Let’s start with Thief. Unless every enemy turns tail and/or stops attacking when you DROP A BIG, RED AOE WITH A GIANT HOUSE OVER IT, screaming “ATTACK HERE!”, escaping is no easy task. The only time where I can get away scott-free like this is when I have full health and drop a refuge far enough away that no one could get to me in time to push me out. Stealth has a counter in this game, you just must be one of those people that stop attacking.

Next off, the Mesmer. One of the hardest professions to escape on, I’ve found through my time of playing (though I’ve never tried any heavies for a long period, I may be biased here). Even with Mass invis and Decoy, escaping is usually nigh impossible unless you can really pull some tricks out. An ele? Hit 1 button, condition cleanse, done.

LordByron.8369:

…
You think rtl is too good?
Do you know wich is considered the slowest class around? mesmer.

try a traited blink.
1200 breaks stun teleport….
Portal
(perma swiftness can be obtained equally)
For tanking purposes look at immortal mesmer….

Then try a warrior…
Its not as easy to understand but a war can obtain slightly better mobility than an elementalist.

Thief?
Stealth + mobility was already the worst idea i ever saw in a game (notice how usually stealth massively REDUCE mobility in most other games)
They also added damage kitten just in case…..
…

You know why Mesmer is considered that? Because it is. Mesmers have the least swiftness in the game, just 1 skill on a long cooldown (correct me if i’m wrong?). Perma swiftness requires changing of equipment and runes, just like any profession, including eles (though it really doesn’t for them). Blink isn’t reliable for getting away, because most professions have some mobility to coutner that one teleport. Portal needs an entrance and exit, and they need to be set up separately, making it awful for escaping purposes.

W-… Wait. Did you just say Warriors have more mobility than an Ele? Passing this one up. Simply wrong.

You have a fair point that other games slow stealth down. But on other games, stealth is also infinite until you decide to break it. In GW2, most Thieves cannot infinitely stealth (though there are some exceptions, but It’s not as rampant as D/D eles. I won’t mention it here because it’s something that needs to be addressed in it’s own right). Everyone BUT the Thief forums seems to think that Thieves are one shotting, completely invisible ganking powerhouses that only ever die when faced with overwhelming odds. I’ve played an ele for some time, S/D, and getting away is still as easy as pressing one button. If that fails, I’ve got some other tools at my disposal as (censor) S/D. That’s S/D. As D/D, nothing catches me. I feel disgustingly OP when faced with any odds, knowing that should I ever get in any real trouble, I can swap to air and get away 80% of the time, and it makes me equally disgusted seeing that you guys don’t understand this, and even ask for buffs most of the time. I do as much damage as a well-placed Backstab with Fire and Air attunement, heal and tank as much as a bunker Guardian thanks to Water and Earth, and have the best mobility in the game to top it.

I’ve never felt like that over my 2,000 hours of Thief.

Personally I think D/D is amazing at escaping and in small fights, and could possibly be overpowered (or at least very strong). Certainly the mobility is what keeps us alive in most small to medium encounters, along with all the healing and stun breaks. Nerfing it slightly wouldn’t be too bad but if they do that please buff the scepter and staff. Seriously they both suck when the enemy knows how to move.

Anyway, D/D ele is the king of escaping. It’s very hard to chase me, and the few classes which can are GS Warriors (didn’t expect that, did you? Make a warrior and see!) and Thieves with Shortbow (which is basically all of them in WvW).

However this is an issue that is shared with Thieves. If you are losing, nobody can kill you. The guy above me has no idea what he is talking about, or is exaggerating. When I play my Thief, it is impossible to chase me down if I am determined to run. Four sources of stealth in D/P build is just overkill. Here’s a tip: you don’t have to stay in stealth forever, just long enough to hide behind a rock or something like that. And don’t use Shadow Refuge next to a zerg. That’s stupid.

That doesn’t mean either class is OP (it doesn’t mean either class is not OP either), but they are just really good at running away. It’s a completely separate issue from how good they are in combat. If Anet thinks this should be nerfed then I have no issue with it. But our mobility, and the stealth mechanic, should be nerfed together.

Anyway, I do think our in combat mobility is really good, and as a whole the D/D weapon set with 0 10 0 30 30 is excellent. A few nerfs here or there would be alright and wouldn’t break the class. The proposed change to RTL is something that might work.

Edit: But please buff Staff, Scepter, and Focus. Seriously.

Edit again: Warriors can move as fast as a D/D elementalist (maybe a bit slower or faster, I’m honestly not sure). Don’t just dismiss the claim, go read the wiki and see the GS skills:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rush
Same cooldown and range as RTL

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirlwind_Attack
Slightly less range as Burning Speed, but lower CD.

CrazyAce.3842:

Actually, I do know what I’m talking about. I’ve played this game for well over a year-and-a-half now, going on two years, thank you very much.

So you’ve been playing since before the closed beta?

impressive.

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

^First, if they nerf D/D they’ll buff something else. They already made adjustment to RtL so I doubt it will get any attention. Only way to reduce d/d’s is to buff other weapons.

They’ve been saying they want to buff other Ele builds for a very long time. They haven’t done anything important though, the most recent ele buffs, some very little unimportant updates to Focus (Change to Fire Wall and Flame Shield – Flame Shield update was probably made to buff Bounty bosses as no sane Ele will take advantage of it) and a fix (Static Field) and a small buff (Stoning attack speed) to Staff skills aren’t exactly buffs that will make those more viable and more powerful. On the other hand the nerfs to the D/D build were all very very major ones (RtL cd, Renewing Stamina nerf – it’s like a minor trait of other profs now, Soothing Disruption duration nerf)

What they need to do, along with their nerfs to the OP D/D build is equally impressive buffs to the other builds, not near useless updates. I don’t see that happening any time soon.

S/D isn’t a bad spec when played properly. See, this is the difference here, S/D actually requires some skill and know how and when you have it, can beat the classic faceroll OP D/D build. The build I posted trait wise was very general in arguments sense. As a S/D Ele time to time I ran 0/25/0/25/20. Don’t believe the S/D’s capabilities? Go watch ‘Aky’ fight on youtube, vs’ an amazing mesmer called Tsunkyr. D/D ele’s usually roll over and die to mesmers because they are so used to facerolling or escaping other things, the surprise and sudden bursts from mesmers eat through their defenses, where as, as seen in his videos, a well played S/D can do some amazing things, and deserves to do so.

These responses which really just come down to “Oh, you are obviously a bad player at ele, because you are doing better than everyone else”. Makes no sense. If the people posting here and describing the spec as being too easy it means 1 of two things. They are amazing Elementalists, or the build/spec is OP. I know its personally the latter for me.

Yeah, its stupid to use a Refuge near a zerg right? We’ll just use the other long periods of stealth to escape as a thief…Oh no! There is none! Fine, lets try just mobility, Oh no! Thieves can actually get CC’d to the ground and have no condition cleanse outside stealth and their main heal! (Save for the ever popular shadowstep, and good luck using it away from a zerg then returning to your original location closer to the zerg just to drop immobilize.) Even as small groups, my guild rolls face on thieves, only 1/10 gets away, and thats only if we give up chase because its just not worth it.

D/D ele’s on the other hand are seldom caught, I’ve seen them outrun thieves easy. Just yesterday, me and a guildie took our D/D ele’s we hadn’t played for 1-2 months, so we’re rusty, to WvW for the lols, to see if we’re wrong. We aren’t. We took on outnumbering odds frequently and won. When we were close to losing and their numbers got too large (2v7) We Rtl, lightning flash, perma swiftness, Rtl. Etc etc, and you can guess we always survived. Simply couldnt be done on a thief, and dont get me started on mesmer.

But I guess its all about the proof right? The facts? I dare any one of you to bring a thief, and lets see if you can escape even 3 people let alone a zerg, for kicks we can even try your mesmer. I’ll get on a D/D Ele, and escape upto 8+ people with ease alone, taking all the CC to the face and laughing. By the way my D/D ele has Green trinkets, and lvl 72 exotics. Why does the char I once mained have such crappy gear? Because I never felt the need for anything else, I felt on par if not better with other classes with just those, that just stinks ‘balance issue’.

@Sunflowers

Anet does think its an issue, and has openly stated so. Mobility is especially what they cited about it, and will be addressing it soon. I cant wait to see what all the D/D bang wagoners flock to next when Anet nerfs them. Like stated above, I dare you to catch me on a D/D ele on your warrior. Sword and Warhorn+GS has some amazing mobility yes, but its not viable as a wvw build setup. An Ele makes no sacrifice, their main spec is OH Dagger anyway, and perma swifteness due to their reliance on boons (Protection, regen, might, swiftness, fury etc.). Now if an Ele had to switch to staff every time they were going somewhere then the argument would be valid but right now, it isn’t. I agree that Ele’s has a class should be looked at and made more versatile in other trait lines but not as ‘powerful’ as this build…. Nothing should be as powerful.

@Maddoctor

Anet itself is horrible at balancing nerf and buff in equal capacity. Thats true, but other classes are also suffering the same issues with balancing, that problem isn’t ele exclusive and shouldn’t but used in just its context.

To summarise, if everyone is bandwagoning a FoTM build, taking on absurd amounts of enemies smashing buttons (tried and tested, most recently yesterday), without running away might I add, getting the highest score consistently in Spvp/Tpvp and is doing the absurd amounts of damage they can as BUNKERs, it needs to be looked at. and I’m glad Anet is, it’s just mind boggling to see so many people refusing to accept how broken something this obvious is.

As a rule of thumb, an ele should kill mesmer, at least in pvp. No idea how players are doing that in pvd.

And we all heard about 8k firegrab on bunker spec.

in Spvp where the crit damage is capped. Bunker Ele=Standard generic ele build, I hope you know that?

I dunno, I know a few mesmer that would give any D/D ele a run for their money.

Lucky crit 5.6k against full glass thief, most likely with soldier’s amulet plus zerker jewel. Bunker indeed.

And what has crit damage being capped in pvp anything to do with bunkers?

It means, he could do even more damage in WvW. Soldiers amulet is a bunker amulet. Its one among many with emphasis on survivability yes. Its not just the crit, look at that absurd spike. I wish I could spike like that on my bunker guardian on a glass. No way in hell.

Soldier’s + zerker is bunker now?

How can he do more damage in pvd as a bunker when bunkers do not invest in critical damage and even if they do, they won’t invest more than in pvp.

Bunker guardian are using shaman’s ammy and bunker ele clerics+valkyrie.

Yes, PVT is still a bunker amulet. Its meant for tankier specs. Some crit damage is put in there sure, so its not full bunker maybe acknowledged. Still, does ridiculous amounts of damage for all that survivability. I can use the same sort of trait setup+amulets+runes on my ele and guardian and compare the damage for you if you like? I mean, I just used my 20k health, 2.5-.2.6k toughness which is a lot for a clothy, D/D ele to spike, yes burst damage, a group of 3 in spvp alone. Arcane Wave+ring of fire does wonders, might stacking and burst and all.

I’m willing to bet our definitions for bunker may vary in extremities. I view anything specced for a higher value of survivability as a bunker spec, not full bunker but a bunker hybrid yes. This includes balance warriors+guardians+necros etc. I guess you view bunkers as the extreme. I’ll go use the amulet set up you suggested and post my findings.

Edit :Just realized I don’t even use a zerker jewel personally, meaning my damage could be even higher. Turns out I use a PVT Amulet with a Cleric’s jewel. I took your setup with a Cleric’s Amulet and valk jewel and received 5% more crit damage but way less hp in favor of healing.

Sunflowers.1729:

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However this is an issue that is shared with Thieves. If you are losing, nobody can kill you. The guy above me has no idea what he is talking about, or is exaggerating. When I play my Thief, it is impossible to chase me down if I am determined to run. Four sources of stealth in D/P build is just overkill. Here’s a tip: you don’t have to stay in stealth forever, just long enough to hide behind a rock or something like that. And don’t use Shadow Refuge next to a zerg. That’s stupid.

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Edit again: Warriors can move as fast as a D/D elementalist (maybe a bit slower or faster, I’m honestly not sure). Don’t just dismiss the claim, go read the wiki and see the GS skills:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rush
Same cooldown and range as RTL

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirlwind_Attack
Slightly less range as Burning Speed, but lower CD.

My point was that there is some counterplay to stealth, when the original person I was replying to says that there is “absolutely none”. While it is true that a thief running full speed is hard to catch, it is not nearly as hard to catch as a D/D ele. You may never get caught, but your experience and mine may differ greatly. I was generally speaking of running away from skilled players. It’s much more difficult than running from a zerg or bad players.

Oh, and those Warrior skills? All affected by movement impairing conditions and combat.

After just 5 minutes of testing, I do far more damage using haviz’s fully bunker build as opposed to a hybrid. That’s even more broken.

You’re doing more damage with Clerics+valk (694 Power/0 Precision/5% crit dmg) than with soldiers+zerk (923 Power/75 Precision/5% crit dmg)? Sounds realistic.

Full bunker is 0/0/10/30/30 with s/d.

If you read, I just said, Soldiers+Cleric’s. Read my post next time please.

S/D has no problems. its a high skill cap play which is fair. D/D is an OP spec that needs nerfing and rewards no skill play only difference there.