Guild Wars 2

You said you were using my fully bunker build dealing far more damage.

Yes. I said in my original post however that I used PVT amulet and cleric’s jewel originally then tried yours, the more “bunker” option according to you and did more damage, noticeably. Reading comprehension.

Which is not possible. Please, stop that. Bunker ele does very little damage and can’t kill anyone unless you’re facing terrible opponent. Unless we’re talking about pvd where miracles happens thanks to the high skill level of the participants.

i really like how some players jump in this forum to ask for nerfs takes out of the closet the same old WRONG concepts already everyone answered…

Than when they really have no way of getting out because they clearly don t know what they are talking about they resort to flaming directly….

Like “you never played www”

Now to the really skilled and experienced www player up there…

Some really famous ele players and the same counterparts of mesmer players agree on 2 facts:

1 D/D is not optimal for www
2 mesmer is really stronger in current state of ANY ele (guardian comes next and possibly other professions).

I am quite tired of explaining basics to complainers….but play on a tier 1-2-3 server and in less than 1 hour you know why nobody cares of D/D eles.
Expecially post nerf…..or just go in mesmer forum to look for daphoenix posts….(using a mesmer now afaik).

They explain why…but i bet you won t accept that.

Lol its not possible to do more damage with your setup? It has outright 5% CritDamage. Stop trying to dismiss my findings. If you aren’t bothering to test your claims and I am, thank me or have the courtesy to stop replying. I’,m done with this thread, too many players relying on the crutch which is D/D ele right now, thankfully Anet is planning to nerf. I just cant wait to see what band wagoners do when they are nerfed. Maybe we’ll actually see some skilled play like Madspin

It has less power.

You heard it here first, folks: Cleric’s + Valkyrie’s does more damage than Soldier’s + Cleric’s.

I mean, it’s not like Power does anything, right?

I’ve had to say this like, 4 times now, if you guys can’t read, don’t post.

Cleric’s+ Valkyrie’s does more damage then Soldier’s +Cleric’s…Shocker! Please read things before making stupid posts.

PistolWhip.2697:

I’ve had to say this like, 4 times now, if you guys can’t read, don’t post.

Cleric’s+ Valkyrie’s does more damage then Soldier’s +Cleric’s…Shocker! Please read things before making stupid posts.

I rather doubt that 5% Crit Damage makes up for the loss of 179 power when you only have a 29% Crit Chance.

I think the ele community is starting to get brainwashed to thinking it’s op

It does. I cannot explain why, but the in the matches I’ve played since yesterday I’am doing more damage… It could be that I get very lucky with my crits. The reasons aren’t clear to me. It could be the constant Fury up keep which is in any D/D build usually making my crit chance 32% for most of the fight?

Either way, we’ll have to see what Anet decides, no matter what you or I think, its what they think that defines what happens. :/

You will do 10.6% more damage with soldier’s+cleric without fury and 9.8% more damage with perma fury.

Then would you say that I’m spiking down opponents faster due to the other traits indirectly, as in, more healing power means I can stay on the offensive longer etc?

Due to a constant sustain I mean.

You moved from “doing far more damage” to “constant sustain”.

I stated that due to the sustainable healing, I was able to do far more damage. You can do both, maybe its hard for you as a player but others with a higher skill cap can.

Anyway, all you do is nitpick at what I say in literal terms and semantics, and ignore any evidence.

Enjoy your Op spec while it lasts. /Thread.

I’m spiking down opponents faster due to the other traits indirectly

and

constant sustain

Maybe this will shed some light.

On topic: problem with ele isn’t mobility (one skill every 20s and possibly one utility). It’s the fact that all cantrips are stun breakers and there are 4 traits that affect in some way (to the level considered too powerful) how they work. Another problem is that group of eles will be much stronger than just one ele.

That’s just reminiscent of their support role in pve…

haviz.1340:

…
On topic: problem with ele isn’t mobility (one skill every 20s and possibly one utility). It’s the fact that all cantrips are stun breakers and there are 4 traits that affect in some way (to the level considered too powerful) how they work. Another problem is that group of eles will be much stronger than just one ele.

While the above is true, you seem to assume that there’s only one problem with ele’s. There’s far more than just cantrips.

They also do as much damage as a balanced Thief as a bunker spec (AoE, too!), tank as well as the best bunker guardians thanks to constant protection, and have outright the best mobility in the game, even surpassing that of the Thief, who is supposed to be filling that role.

That’s the problem with D/D Elementalists.

Rahar.9872:

They also do as much damage as a balanced Thief as a bunker spec (AoE, too!), tank as well as the best bunker guardians thanks to constant protection, and have outright the best mobility in the game, even surpassing that of the Thief, who is supposed to be filling that role.

That’s the problem with D/D Elementalists.

I’ve got a balanced thief (D/P), and an ele with berserker/cavalier/knights. The thief has a higher toughness than the ele (2700 armor!) but 2k less health, due to the traits and stuff.

The thief does way, way more damage (albeit to a single target) than my elementalist ever can. One backstab = 6k damage against most lv 80 targets and can reach up to 10k. This is even more than my ele’s Fire Grab – and it always crits. I can also do this every 4 seconds (imagine if an ele could hit you with fire grab every 4 seconds).

The mobility is of course better on the elementalist, except thieves can stealth (how did you even forget to mention this, I don’t know) which makes up for being able to bounce all over the place. At escaping, both classes are practically unmatched.

Elementalists can’t tank as well as bunker guardians – have you ever played a bunker guardian? We can absorb a lot of damage, this is true, but compare this to someone who not only has on demand protection (Hold the Line) and just generally high uptime if they use a hammer,but also has aegis and heavy armor.

We can certainly do decent damage with a bunker build, and take a lot of damage, which is what makes D/D so strong – being able to do everything decently.

But to say that our burst is equal to a thief with survivability as high as a bunker guardian? Ridiculous.

Rahar.9872:

While the above is true, you seem to assume that there’s only one problem with ele’s. There’s far more than just cantrips.

They also do as much damage as a balanced Thief as a bunker spec (AoE, too!), tank as well as the best bunker guardians thanks to constant protection, and have outright the best mobility in the game, even surpassing that of the Thief, who is supposed to be filling that role.

That’s the problem with D/D Elementalists.

Right, I left elemental attunement. Earth part of that trait should be nerfed to 3s, so it works rather like on-demand protection than perma protection.

Bunker ele hit as hard as wet noodle. He can’t kill you 1v1 unless you either suck terrible, are afk or you fight him for 5 minutes. Why would you fight a bunker 1v1 for 5 minutes? He’ll kill you mostly with burning.

Mobility? One skill every 20s while thief has on demand 900 range teleportation which allows for so many shortcuts on maps like khylo and nilfhel.

Anet wants elementalist to be good at everything but excel at nothing. That’s the whole premise of that class and its attunement mechanics. Bunkering (cantrips and elemental attunement, though not healing) needs adjustment but mobility after rtl nerf is in right state.

And why everyone seems so glued to d/d ele? There is something called scepter which a lot of people are using. Unless you’re coming straigth from pvd where meta is like 5 months late and isn’t even supposed to be balanced in its current state.

haviz.1340:

…
Bunker ele hit as hard as wet noodle. He can’t kill you 1v1 unless you either suck terrible, are afk or you fight him for 5 minutes. Why would you fight a bunker 1v1 for 5 minutes? He’ll kill you mostly with burning.

Mobility? One skill every 20s while thief has on demand 900 range teleportation which allows for so many shortcuts on maps like khylo and nilfhel.
…

Bunker ele’s don’t hit as hard as a wet noodle, especially if you’re on a Thief. Everyone seems to believe this, but 5k fire grab and 7k churning earth crits is not hitting like a wet noodle. I usually play a pretty balanced Thief in sPvP and tPvP, and they’re still incredibly hard to deal with, especially in team fights, where they deal their attacks in a rather large PBAoE. The fact of the matter is that they have too much survivability for the damage, and vice versa.

In regards to the Thief mobility – Ele has that, and his other tricks. That’s why there’s no Thieves in high end tPvP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Flash

Folk.2093:

d/d elementalists: the only class that can rush into a zerg get focus fired at and still come back out alive.

Exactly, well except for thieves, mesmers, warriors, guardians, and all the rest…

Look ele’s are #3 in getting out of fight alive behind thief and mesmer.
They are #3 in mobility behind thief and warrior.

Rahar.9872:

Bunker ele’s don’t hit as hard as a wet noodle, especially if you’re on a Thief. Everyone seems to believe this, but 5k fire grab and 7k churning earth crits is not hitting like a wet noodle. I usually play a pretty balanced Thief in sPvP and tPvP, and they’re still incredibly hard to deal with, especially in team fights, where they deal their attacks in a rather large PBAoE. The fact of the matter is that they have too much survivability for the damage, and vice versa.

45s cooldown with 24% crit chance. Why do you play balanced thief? In its current state thief is picked only for burst.

In regards to the Thief mobility – Ele has that, and his other tricks.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Flash

45(36)s and you just wasted one of your stun breakers while thief has to wait 8s to replenish wasted initiative.

That’s why there’s no Thieves in high end tPvP.

There are.

imho posting disinformations should be treated like flaming on purpose….
And this page is so full of it….

Worst issues of this game…

People think complaining is the measure anet uses in “balancing” (wether is true or not…..that is the impression).

So act accordingly…..

Rahar:
Thief is not dominant because his defense mechanic don t let thief capture points..
And its all about that in PvP

In WWW thief has higher damage (see skill difference) and food buff that makes the difference…….

In WWW there is only 1 profession that can disengage a zerg…
You know it because its the ONLY accepted as scout…..

But this thread is just full of lies that is all…..

^ I disengage zergs all the time on my D/D ele? What?

PistolWhip.2697:

^ I disengage zergs all the time on my D/D ele? What?

Well, I don’t agree with everything else you posted, but here you are absolutely correct. D/D is excellent at running away from just about anything.

^
Makes sense…
lemme see i get engaged in a zerg fight…..

Now my allmighty class is so fast that will outrun other eles…

not to mention cleane all conditions, break stun and outrun thieves and warriors, while negating damage from 20-60 player….

really an OP class i say…

As i said only stealth can do that and its the reason you don t see any class scouting except thieves.

You run away only if you spot zergs from the distance and they don t want to waste time……
That is not disengaging.

Rahar.9872:

In regards to the Thief mobility – Ele has that, and his other tricks. That’s why there’s no Thieves in high end tPvP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Flash

This whole post was nonsense, but especially this part. The reason there’s no thieves in high end tPvP is because you can’t contest a point in stealth, thieves need stealth to survive and deal damage.

Who cares about mobility in tPvP anyway? Isn’t the whole point to NOT move from the points?

Lightning flash has a 900 range, unlike: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep with 1200 range. Not even mentioning HS spammability, infiltrator’s arrow or strike, or the amount of distance you can put on by chaining smoke bomb>refuge>blinding powder>HS…..

LordByron.8369:

^
Makes sense…
lemme see i get engaged in a zerg fight…..

Now my allmighty class is so fast that will outrun other eles…

not to mention cleane all conditions, break stun and outrun thieves and warriors, while negating damage from 20-60 player….

really an OP class i say…

As i said only stealth can do that and its the reason you don t see any class scouting except thieves.

You run away only if you spot zergs from the distance and they don t want to waste time……
That is not disengaging.

Exactly. If you really do get away from a zerg, they LET YOU GO….. Period. End of story. It wasn’t your skill, it wasn’t the class being OP, it was because they saw you as a worthless distraction and just ignored you. Any half decent commander won’t let their zerg chase one annoying ele because there is literally nothing you can do to them anyway.

That playstyle makes entertaining videos, but has no impact on the actual battles.

Ok I thought you knew what disengage meant. My bad. I can actively attack a zerg and 99% of the time disengage and not be caught by anything save for other D/D ele’s and depending on terrain occasionally thieves.

But you know, maybe you guys are right… Up until now I’ve thought D/D ele was a crutch spec, rewarding simplistic gameplay and all the benefits with no sacrifice. But you guys may be right, maybe I’m just that good of a player, I assume all D/D Ele’s can pull off what I do… My apologies. Thank you for allowing me to see this.

If our mobility is removed then why do we have the lowest health and armor in the game?

What’s the sick joke here?

Yep, nerf d/d eles (except in pve!). Might sway more people to even more unkillable s/d spec.

haviz.1340:

45s cooldown with 24% crit chance. Why do you play balanced thief? In its current state thief is picked only for burst.

Insulting my playstyle doesn’t make me wrong. Yes, I play balanced Thief, because the current meta is one-shot burst tactics, and I dislike that. But that’s not my point.

The point is that eles can do everything a Thief can, and more – High damage, higher mobility, and much, much greater sustain.

Not to mention the most commonly QQ’d about part of a Thief (CnD + mug + backstab with Basilisk venom) has a 45s cooldown too. Add in permafury with an ele, and you’ve got 42%, assuming it’s not already added in. What’s your point?

haviz.1340:

There are.

Everyone else on this thread seems to think they aren’t.

Rahar.9872:

Add in permafury with an ele, and you’ve got 42%, assuming it’s not already added in.

24% is with Fury, assuming they are actually a bunker (full Cleric’s or something). Not that elementalists with more offensive gear and 3 Cantrips don’t possess ridiculous survivability.

Highly mobile classes/builds aren’t really an issue. The issue is combining mobility with sustain/healing. There should be a tradeoff, you shouldn’t be able to (excel) at both at the same time.

To the original question of mobility being too strong… No.

As I’ve posted in other threads, the Elementalist needs every tool in the box just to survive against similarly skilled and geared opponents.

The class combines the lowest armor with the lowest health pool, on top of being locked into one range with no weapon swap.

It seems to me that all the people crying OP are simply noobs who got wasted by a particularly skilled Elementalist, and are whining because Eles aren’t free kills while in FULL BUNKER SPEC. Catch any non-bunker build Ele (most staff builds, various scepter builds, anything with a focus due to lack of mobility) out in the open, and its a free kill. So ONE spec allows the Elementalist to survive. ONE.

People who claim the whole profession is unbalanced because of one spec that’s doing what its supposed to do need to learn what a logical fallacy is. Where’s all the cry-sacking over Guardian bunker/retal builds? You know, the one where a thief unloads a burst and instagibs himself? That’s right Virginia, there isn’t any, because for some odd reason, a class/build doing what its supposed to do is okay for every other profession but Elementalist according to Forum Trolls Weekly.

roamzero.9486:

Highly mobile classes/builds aren’t really an issue. The issue is combining mobility with sustain/healing. There should be a tradeoff, you shouldn’t be able to (excel) at both at the same time.

The trade off is that our damage really sucks.

Rahar.9872:

Insulting my playstyle doesn’t make me wrong. Yes, I play balanced Thief, because the current meta is one-shot burst tactics, and I dislike that. But that’s not my point.

Haven’t done that unless you’re really touchy on the subject of your playstyle.

The point is that eles can do everything a Thief can, and more – High damage, higher mobility, and much, much greater sustain.

Another one playing 30/30/30/30/30.

Not to mention the most commonly QQ’d about part of a Thief (CnD + mug + backstab with Basilisk venom) has a 45s cooldown too.

Most commonly used thief in tpvp is d/p and please don’t compare fire grab to basilisk venom. One is highly predictable and easily dodgeable.

Everyone else on this thread seems to think they aren’t.

Only you and pvd players.

LordByron.8369:

^
Makes sense…
lemme see i get engaged in a zerg fight…..

Now my allmighty class is so fast that will outrun other eles…

not to mention cleane all conditions, break stun and outrun thieves and warriors, while negating damage from 20-60 player….

really an OP class i say…

As i said only stealth can do that and its the reason you don t see any class scouting except thieves.

You run away only if you spot zergs from the distance and they don t want to waste time……
That is not disengaging.

Let me tell you something people rage on me all the time when I say thins but running just these skills you’ll out run catch up and stop an ele with a warrior people say its not true but fact is I have played ele for 6 months now. I only run builds on alts that can keep up thus my alts are warrior kinda a main, thief, and ranger. Fact is its not hard or impossible to catch an ele as long as we aren’t using FGS. Beside that Thief and warrior should have no issues keeping up and ranger could possibly out run any class all the time.

Mobility int the issue stupid players are. No one likes to bring lock down skills when they want to Pew Pew. Now one wants to run full melee with a little mobility because they want to sit back and pew pew. The sad thing is ele really does need a nerf in the higher tier water traits because the synergy between cantrips and condition removal is simply too strong. That being said each nerf hits bunker a little and anyone running anything other than bunker a lot.

The really sad thing I get more bags on a thief with a short bow in wvw due to the fact that tagging is best done at range. Even as scouts ele have some hard limits. People kitten their pants over WvW but fact is its not close to a never will be balanced.

The only class that can truly disengage is a thief.

How is a glass cannon Elementalist going to work exactly?
How is playing a class with 10k health and 1800 armor going to be fun?

The more bunker Elementalists are nerfed the less useful the Elementalist becomes. I want to see how you’re going to make a glass cannon Elementalist work. I could really use a good laugh today.

If RTL was affected by chilled/cripples, it should then also have the cooldown reduced back to 15s.

Else it wouldn’t be comparable to other professions, it’d be WORSE.

Minion of Vey.4398:

If RTL was affected by chilled/cripples, it should then also have the cooldown reduced back to 15s.

Else it wouldn’t be comparable to other professions, it’d be WORSE.

And also be affected by swiftness and have the entire skillbar available during the channel just like every other movement skill, can’t add a drawback only, add the whole package of movement skills on RtL

Calae.1738:

How is a glass cannon Elementalist going to work exactly?
How is playing a class with 10k health and 1800 armor going to be fun?

I also want an answer to this one…

How is the, by far, least durable class (by default, not adding trait specs in the mix) going to survive in anything except bunker spec if it doesn’t have ways to escape?