Guild Wars 2

Hi everyone,
I just want to know if this build can be useful in PvE, mainly in fractals/dungeons:

1. variant:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQJArdnMISLDWABmNAdEG4AwIPE+BBxQBAxfgRwKE-TxBBABA8AAsU9Hi2fIP9Aap8jhTAAaKBDAcA8bfDgnP/8lXe5+93f/93fLDQ+WA-e

2. variant:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQJArdnMISLDWABmNAdEGoAwIfEGCFxwFgHQAQ0IA-TxBBABA8AAsU9Hi2fIP9Aap8jhTAAaKBDAcA8bfDgnP/8lXe5+93f/93fLDQ+WA-e

I am mainly PvE player, and I love my ele. But I hate when I can die so easily, especially in some fractals. But when I focus on defense = lower dps. And other players just don’t like when ele do lower dps. They would like me to be zerk. But I don’t want to be zerk. So I created this build. It’s just a little try, I just wanted to make some defense while keeping good dmg. I want someone to say which variant is better or what should I change…

The odd part about both variants is that you are taking LH but do not have the Conjure (Fire II) Trait. Survivability-wise I highly recommend going with Renewing Stamina (Arcana II). The extra dodges go a long way. Aquatic Benevolence is more on the “meh” side of things as healing in this game isn’t as productive as proactive defense/mitigation.

Runes are also awkward as the Rock Dog’s AI tend to do some very strange things at times. Scholar’s is going to be the best bet. Though if you find yourself often going beneath the threshold you may want to invent in Strength runes (Great synergy with fire fields + Hammer auto), or you could go for something like Flame Legion Runes that is a better fit for players’ budgets.

For your gear I would try to keep your trinkets berserker if you can handle it. Your power stat will definitely go through the roof though with the gear, food, and stacks (close to 3k pre-might). The big issue you’ll be running into is that lower level’d zones/dungeons will have a stat cap that’s well below what you have. E.G. You have full Blood stacks and using the 2nd variant putting you at ~3k Power; however, the zone capped you at 2500 so that extra 500 is wasted and is not factored into your down-scale stat.

If I had to choose between the two I would go with variant 2 just because it has the persisting flames trait that is highly valued in groups.

I get that not everybody is good enough to play full zerker, but do you really need to take one of the most tanky gear AND some defensive trait? If zerker meta is at one extreme, you are the other extreme on the defensive side.

There is plenty of active defense that will improve your survivability a bit more, while sacrificing less dps.
- D/F build is easier to survive at a small sacrifice in term of dps. You can stay at 300 range and have a better access to swirlings wind and obsidian flesh. It also liberate the LH utility slot for either Frostbow or a cantrip. It also punish you less if you go down. With the LH build your dps drop a lot when you go down and lose your LH.
- Like Savacli said, Renewing Stamina is a huge defensive trait at a very low cost.

For your sigils, bloodlust is not that good in fractal since you won’t get the 25 stack by the end of most fractal and each time you down you lost it all. Force should be your main sigil. Fraily or Accuracy are both good choice. If you need more defense, sigil of energy is a good choice.

I think the underlying question is what you consider “viable” means. For some individuals/groups, completing content as fast as possible which means anything less than full Berserker isn’t viable to them. For other individuals/groups, completing content is it’s own measure and long as everything gets done that’s considered viable to them.

Can this build do content? Of course. It’s not bad at all and you should be able to do dungeon content and fractals without much problems. There are a few tweaks it could use for things like Internal Fire/Conjurer over Ember’s Might and taking a few points out of Water because your Vitality is through the roof. There’s sufficient Power/Crit/Crit Damage (especially first build) to keep up sufficiently and not feel like you’re being carried.

However you wouldn’t be setting any speed run records. Higher end Fractal Content likely aren’t going to go very well either as most of the current strategies revolve around maximum DPS groups and tactics to overcome the content.

I really like how you keep ignoring the reality that time matters even for casual groups Kodiak.

Is the build viable? Of course!

Is the build good? No. It’s terrible.

What’s really baffling is that the build is poor in almost every way. It’s going to do bad damage, AND it has poor support. If you were gonna be a tanky support Ele, you would be better off running Arcana and granting Regeneration + Protection. If you want damage, that full Soldier gear plus investment into Water without taking stuff Piercing Shards is really really holding you back.

Also, you’re presumably relying on Lightning Hammer for damage, but don’t have Conjurerer.

But the build is viable, sure. In fact, the following build is viable for completing PvE content: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAYmMICA-TRgLAAgOAA-e

That’s it. That’s how low the bar is for ‘viable’. And I wish people stopped using that term for referring to PvE Content. It is VERY HARD to create a non-viable build for PvE.

The question you really want to ask is if the build is good. And the answer is a resounding no.

Now, if I were to suggest good builds, I think that the following are good builds for doing PvE content:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_Staff
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_S/F_LH
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_D/F

By the way, in my personal opinion, I think that the D/F build is probably the best ‘hybrid’ sort of build people are probably looking for that has a lot of personal defensive utility as well as good damage. The Staff build does way more damage but can be way harder to play in some cases and way easier to play in some other cases. The S/F LH build is highly useful for its high damage, constant blast finishers, and constant blinds, but trying to PUG with a Lightning Hammer build is pretty annoying since people can pick up your other hammer, plus if you have to stop using the Hammer or go down, your DPS becomes terrible since you rely on the Scepter for damage.

Overall, I hope that’s somewhat useful information for you.

I ignore time as a factor simply because there are too many variables that go into time to make it a reliable to measure in anything other than a group designed to speed clear dungeons (even if that’s not their intent).

You have 4 other team mates. These other team mates can have any number of specs, defensive or offensive. In addition these players can be at varying levels of game play and some may know the encounters or have done the dungeon a few times but aren’t invested enough to remember what to do. They may also have varying styles of game play where some melee stack and others stay at maximum range. All these random factors that go into doing normal dungeons all contribute to the time it takes to complete the dungeon and are all factors entirely outside of your control.

In this case the OP doesn’t want to go Berserker. So the idea of suggesting maximum DPS builds or comparing his builds to those builds isn’t a viable route because those all are based on Berserker. Therefore looking at his build in comparison of all the gear choices (Berserker on one end and Nomads on the other) his build is fairly offensive when looking at it in that context. Like on a scale of 0 – 10 of offensive power with 0 being Nomads and 10 being Berserker, his build rates somewhere around a 6 or 7. That isn’t that bad and with some tweaks to his traits could be a solid 7 which you’re not exactly an anchor on your group at a 7.

I second the whole “not suggesting meta-berserker” as the OP stated that was not what he was after. Whether he’s asking this because he’s anti-meta or does not have proficiency in the high DPS builds is more or less irrelevant.

While I enjoy a timely clear in casual runs I would more expect people to be able to hold their own ground. We’ve seen plenty of speed runs of players being able to trio, duo, even solo content so the number of bodies on a team don’t make/break a run but rather help to shave off time. Thus, I’d rather take someone who can do low-moderate who can stay up rather than someone who is constantly going down/dead. Personally, nothing is more frustrating than carrying someone who is constantly going down.

Though for me, that’s just in casual/LFG runs. If I’m running with a casual group, unless otherwise told in the LFG description, I’m going in with the expectation that no one is optimized and that players are focusing on completion rather than time.

vi·a·ble
?v??b(?)l/
adjective
capable of working successfully; feasible.

Everything in this game is viable.

I don’t believe you intend to ask this question. What you and most others intend to be asking I imagine is along the lines of “Is my build good?”

The answer to that is no, it’s quite awful and for a variety of reasons especially since you mentioned fractals. LH builds are pretty awful in those and they should absolutely never be used for pugging imo.

It’s pretty funny, actually. I believe that better players have been pushing the term “viable” when talking about GW2 PvE builds in the hope of having good builds be taken seriously as something “top tier” (in a game, mind you, where anything really works).

What actually happened is the opposite – since the term “viable” really just means “capable of working”, players have latched onto the term and equate the worst possible builds with actually good builds. The end result, it seems, is players making strange wacky hybrid builds like the OP which fail in almost every regard.

It’s time we stopped using the term “viable” when talking about PvE builds, because it is an almost pointless conversation. A single mainhand weaon with no traits or gear is “viable”. Let’s use the terms that we really mean – good and bad. Once we start talking about whether builds are good or bad, we can’t hide behind the fact that “we can complete the content with this, so it’s viable”. Well yes, that’s great. But if that was your standard, then why even bother coming and asking for advice? Especially if you don’t want to actually receive advice, but simply affirmation of what you already believe in?

The build is bad. Especially if your target gameplay is PUGing Fractals. Run Staff or D/F. Yes, you can run healing Scepter build or whatever, but it’ll be bad. If that hurts your feelings, please don’t take it personally. I’m just telling it as a matter of fact, not to disparage on your personal character. You are free to run whatever build you want, really, I promise. I won’t log into your account and delete your character for running a build I think is bad. I’m just saying – as a build that tries to either deal damage or support, it fails at both. Hell, if I was trying to make some heavy, non-DPS oriented “support” build, I might as well run 4 Arcana so I can get Elemental Attunement and give my party AoE Boons. At least if you ran that, there’d be some actual support. At least then I’d understand where you’re coming from. But running 6 in Water for Aquatic Benevolence in Soldier Gear with no Healing Power or Arcana Traits is also really poor support, by any standard. The build is thus just really, really bad.

And I think that the proper response, when someone comes asking for build advice, is to be honest and offer good build advice.

some serious lrn2read issues going on

OP didn’t ask for good builds
OP didn’t even ask for zerk builds
edit: for people that like to write alot you guys sure can’t read.

sorrychief.2563:

some serious lrn2read issues going on

OP didn’t ask for good builds
OP didn’t even ask for zerk builds

Okay, here are some viable pve builds then

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFALAA-TRgLAAgOAA-e

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAIAA-TRgLAAgOAA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAGAA-TRgLAAgOAA-e

OP asked which of the 2 builds he provided us was better. that’s not really helping him at all, Neko.

Yeah, you were right, this build was awful, now I can see it.
So I remade it according to your advices…

S/F version:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQJArdnMISLD2zAWPAdEIgAwItECFAEXCyAxwirhvAA-TxBBABScCAwa/BAeAAmp8LP9AOqEsS1fCAcA8bfDgzP/8zPf9Ge4hHe4hLDQ+WA-e

Staff version:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQFAWnMISLD2zAWPAdEIgAwItECFAEXCyAxwivhvAA-TxBBABScBAwa/BAeAAmp8LPdAOqEsS1fCAcA87vBgzP/8zPf9Ge4hHe4hLDQ+WA-e

So I hope it’s better now
An now I want to know not if it’s viable, but if it’s good ( and if not, what should I change now)

They are both good now. But still some improve could be done.

- Your S/F build miss one important thing. Lighting Hammer. Without that your build is bad. S/F have a good burst and might stacking capability, but after that, it have a super bad auto-attack and you need Lighting Hammer to take care of that weakness.
- Sigil of Fire is a burst damage sigil. That’s perfect for PvP, but not as much in PvE. Sigil of Force would be superior.
- There is no reason to take Fresh Air in any of those two build. You shouldn’t play much in Air, if at all. Staff should mostly play in fire and S/F + LH build rotation between Fire/Water/Earth for blasting.
- Piercing Shard can be good with a S/F + LH build. You can finish your blast sequence in water and stay there while using your LH for a good damage modifier. But for staff it’s a useless trait since you will almost never fight in water.
- Staff build really really need 6pts in fire to get persisting flames. In a staff build your main source of damage is lava front and the trait persisting flames had 50% more damage to that attack. It also give fury to the team while blasting into that laval front, allowing you to almost give perma fury to your team.

Neko.9021:

And I think that the proper response, when someone comes asking for build advice, is to be honest and offer good build advice.

When people come here asking if something is “viable” they aren’t asking if they can complete content with it. What they’re asking is they know the build isn’t the meta, but is it good enough that they will be able to pull their own weight with it in dungeons.

The inherent difference in answering this is the spectrum in which people look at the game. There’s a wide variety of armor sets in this game. Nomad, Dire, Shaman, Apothecary, Cleric, Carrion, Celestial, Soldiers, Valkyrie, Assassin and Berserker. Some people only look at one end of that spectrum and anything not there is immediately labeled bad/terrible/useless.

Personally I like to look at the stats and do a comparison from there. Long as they hit around 2000+ power, 40%+ crit, 180%+ crit damage the truth is they’re not going to be an anchor on their group. It’s not like they’re bringing absolutely nothing and just putzing along for the ride. The group isn’t suddenly going to take three times as long. Labeling something like that bad is misleading because they will contribute to the group and won’t have any issues which by most people’s standards is a success. The only honest thing to say is that builds that don’t focus on maximum DPS are poor at speed clearing content.

I think pretending that builds are worse than they really are (such as comparing a build to being naked with a weapon equipped) is completely dishonest and misleading.

Also, Avador, there’s plenty of existing guides on what people think are good. It’s basically maximum Berserker gear full DPS builds. You can either go read those as your leisure or you can wait till they keep giving you build tweaks and advice and you’ll arrive at the same destination.

Viable – not viable
Good – bad
Enough to pull your own weight – not enough
Carrying the group – Being an anchor

All these qualifications are subjective and they depend on the skill level of the player, the content he chooses to tackle, and his team-mates. So we will never find a qualification system that works for everybody. Even “completing the content” is subjective as it could mean anything from speedrunning to killing the final boss after 15 hours of chaotic attempts.

Luckily Avador explained his perspective clearly: he wants to do as much damage as possible while not dying all the time.

This is good, because this is exactly what leads to a build being efficient. An efficient build should:
- enable you to fulfil the role that you like to perform
- match its defence contribution with your skill level so that you have an enjoyable experience, which in turn will allow you to improve your skill level even faster
- deal as much damage as possible once the first two goals are achieved. This implies that your output will be maximised, given the play-style options that you have picked.

It is very easy for any player to know what play-style they want and how much defence they need. However it is not easy to know how to maximise output – that is: maximise damage. Considering this, I think it is sensible that a build that could do more damage given its play-style choice should be called “bad” while a build whose damage is optimal for its play-style should be called “good”.

This way, it makes sense to say that the initial build propositions by the OP are bad, his updated proposal is definitely better (nice job understanding that direct damage stats are the best for optimal output), and the suggestions by Thaddeus and Neko would make his builds good.

_

To contribute to the discussion, I would advise the OP to draw inspiration from the “meta” builds suggested here and in guides. Then tweak them to fit your needs.

From what I understand you hate to die often, and this leads you to dislike zerker gear. This is understandable. However I would suggest sticking close to zerker gear and change as few pieces of equipment to more defensive stats as possible. This is because passive defence from stats is generally less efficient compared to the defensive capabilities offered by traits and utilities; and zerker stats combination is the best way to increase damage output.

I do agree that judgements like good or bad, viable and not viable, time considerations such as fast or slow are all subjective. If how good or bad something is in direct comparison to everything else in the game you can clearly see from a pure stats perspective even his original idea wasn’t even in the realm of bad. It’s not like he was suggesting full Celestial or full Dire or something. All he really needed to do was adjust some poor trait choices around and he’d be fixed up.

Instead poor Avador went the other route and went too far into Offense. While the Ascended Berserker gear is understandable (gives you something to grow into) Celestial Jewelry offers a lot of stats that are uneeded and unwated such as Condition Damage and Healing Power. Really he should be focusing the jewelry on making up the defensive stats he lost from his Armor such as with a mix of Soldier, Cavalier, Valkyrie Jewelry while maintaining high power contributions. Also by taking that many points out of Water and that many points out of Vitality from gear he’s gutted his base HP almost to the base where now the few hundred points in Armor and Health he had aren’t enough to make a meaningful contribution towards his survivability and he’s going to run into survivability issues again (which at that point why not simply go full DPS?).

Really he should be aiming for around 2400 armor and 15-16k HP to feel fairly comfortable and the rest of the stats will fill in where they may. Going this route is also great for upcoming changes like HOT stat line changes because he can get all the defensive stats from his gear while still keeping an offensive trait setup in the future.

A few build thoughts:

-If you’re going Scepter/Focus, you need the Hammer with it for DPS, especially for fractals (arguably, for stuff like AC, it might actually be possible to get by entirely with just Ice Bow and Scepter Burst, lol). But for fights that are long, Scepter DPS is pretty bad, and that’s where Lightning Hammer comes in.
-If you want survivability and DPS, maybe try a “meta” build but with full Soldier Gear on. Over time, as you get more comfortable, switch a piece of Soldier Gear into Berserker Gear, until you’re finally on fully Berserker Gear. In my opinion, this is probably the most effective way to wean someone onto a full Berserker Build that is used to more tanky builds.
-The big secret to survivability for players trying to play in glassy gear when going up against content that they’re not comfortable with is changing their utilities. Slotting skills like Arcane Shield, Mist Form, and Ether Renewal if you want a bit more defense or healing can go a long way, while still letting you keep a strong DPS setup in your traits, gear, and weapons. Also, Glyph of Storms in Earth provides 10 seconds of Blindness in an area, helping mitigate damage for 10 seconds. It’s very strong, and you should consider it any build. It’s not uncommon that someone might run a 6/6/2/0/0 build but have an Arcane Shield instead of a Signet of Fire for extra blocks, just in case.
-Renewing Stamina is a godly trait if you need more dodges, and should be the first thing you get if you need more defenses (such as switching a 6/6/2/0/0 build into a 6/6/0/0/2 build, which I’ll run a lot on encounters where I feel I need more defenses). Sigil of Energy is also really strong and provides an extra dodge when you change attunements (9 second ICD).
-If you really want to run a hybrid-support build, note that the build will still do much, much less damage than a full DPS build. The whole point of the GW2 build system is to force players to make choices – that’s why DPS builds do more damage than hybrid. I still think that you’ll find that, if you end up doing Fractal 40 and 50 dailies, doing more DPS is going to be better in the end and actually make the content easier. Still, if what you desire is not to complete the run quickly, but to just sort of casually move along, maybe consider something like this? : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAodhMMqe20wnBd0AOAGxaQMQcEIA0BLeFWCA-TxxHwA9U+N4BBoZ/Bv6JAcCB0r+DTlgkBIfLA-e [The way this build plays is similar to any D/F PvE build. You mostly autoattack with the Lightning Whip – the Air Attunement Autoattack. You switch to the other attunements for utility and blast finishers as needed, then switch right back into Air Attunement for more autoattacking with Lightning Whip. Your main defensive stuff is Stone Flesh in Earth 5 and Swirling Winds in Air 4.] That sort of build does a lot less damage than a full DPS build, but at least the support stuff is somewhat ok. You do large AoE heals and the Protection on Earth attunement is really strong, though all of that comes at the cost of lots of DPS. But that’s what I’d say, as far as “hybrid” builds go.

If you want to talk more about this sort of stuff, you’re free to talk to me in-game. I’m busy today but this weekend I should be around a bit.