Guild Wars 2

Why are Anet being so kittened with this spell?

I pick the thing so I can get away not so I can do damage. The range of it from what I remember has been reduced to a horrifying amount not to mention they removed the stun breaker. And it does little damage anyways.

This thing should have at least a 12 sec CD for all the crap they’ve done to it.

12 seconds is too low, and you know it. If they removed the damage from it and reduced the cooldown to 30 seconds, I’d be a lot happier with it.

12 seconds is too high as long as the other nerfs are still in place.

It’s meant to be used offensively. It crits for around 1500 and lets you land big PBAoEs like Earthquake. Oh, and even though it doesn’t break stun, you can still cast it while CC’d like other instant abilities.

LF is actually my favorite cantrip. Mistform and Cleansing Fire got nerfed and Armor of Earth went from meh to worse because of it. If they want to keep Mistform the way it is, they should reintroduce stunbreak to Cleansing Fire and up the CD, or lower the CD on Armor of Earth.

Alys Florent.1359:

It’s meant to be used offensively. It crits for around 1500 and lets you land big PBAoEs like Earthquake. Oh, and even though it doesn’t break stun, you can still cast it while CC’d like other instant abilities.

LF is actually my favorite cantrip. Mistform and Cleansing Fire got nerfed and Armor of Earth went from meh to worse because of it. If they want to keep Mistform the way it is, they should reintroduce stunbreak to Cleansing Fire and up the CD, or lower the CD on Armor of Earth.

Yeah I really want to get close to the enemy as the squishiest prof in the game… And don’t you dare say its great for d/d. But hey at least it crits for a lousy 1500.

Hanako.1827:

Alys Florent.1359:

It’s meant to be used offensively. It crits for around 1500 and lets you land big PBAoEs like Earthquake. Oh, and even though it doesn’t break stun, you can still cast it while CC’d like other instant abilities.

LF is actually my favorite cantrip. Mistform and Cleansing Fire got nerfed and Armor of Earth went from meh to worse because of it. If they want to keep Mistform the way it is, they should reintroduce stunbreak to Cleansing Fire and up the CD, or lower the CD on Armor of Earth.

Yeah I really want to get close to the enemy as the squishiest prof in the game… And don’t you dare say its great for d/d. But hey at least it crits for a lousy 1500.

Actually its really good for D/D, so is cleansing fire. Of course I don’t run a silly bunker build, I run an offensive build designed to defeat D/D bunkers (before I got kitten ed with how lag effects over half of the D/D skills)

I still always bring LF on any build that has Dagger offhand, because it combos so well with most of the skills:

1. Earthquake—>lightning flash while at apex gives a surprise knock-down aoe in the area
2. Lightning flash—>updraft is great for another instant interrupt when you think the opponent will be fast enough to dodge RtL.
3. Lightning flash+Fire grab is a great combo for landing the firegrab if a foe is already on fire
4. Lightning flash + Churning earth: the only way to actually land the spell
5. Lightning flash out of stun or to get some distance while running wvw. yes it doesn’t break stun, but it saves me from eating the whole of a hundred blades to the face and dying instantly.

It has both offense and defense, while adding a sprinkle of unpredictability to the weaponset. For that, it is still worth taking.

However, I would not be opposed to a 30s cooldown with no damage. That would just mean I could use it more often!

BlackBeard.2873:

3. Lightning flash+Fire grab is a great combo for landing the firegrab if a foe is already on fire

Lightning Flash + Fire Grab + Cleansing Fire when they are not on fire (or cleanse before hitting)

I would like it if they removed the damage all together and made it exactly like blink. Most advanced ele combos rely on LF to execute, so the more often it’s up, the more fluid ele plays.

Removing the damage would also help reduce the damage in the instagib combo.

BlackBeard.2873:

I still always bring LF on any build that has Dagger offhand, because it combos so well with most of the skills:

1. Earthquake—>lightning flash while at apex gives a surprise knock-down aoe in the area
2. Lightning flash—>updraft is great for another instant interrupt when you think the opponent will be fast enough to dodge RtL.
3. Lightning flash+Fire grab is a great combo for landing the firegrab if a foe is already on fire
4. Lightning flash + Churning earth: the only way to actually land the spell
5. Lightning flash out of stun or to get some distance while running wvw. yes it doesn’t break stun, but it saves me from eating the whole of a hundred blades to the face and dying instantly.

It has both offense and defense, while adding a sprinkle of unpredictability to the weaponset. For that, it is still worth taking.

However, I would not be opposed to a 30s cooldown with no damage. That would just mean I could use it more often!

Well said, I even learned a trick or two from this, thank ;-)

BlackBeard.2873:

I still always bring LF on any build that has Dagger offhand, because it combos so well with most of the skills:

1. Earthquake—>lightning flash while at apex gives a surprise knock-down aoe in the area
2. Lightning flash—>updraft is great for another instant interrupt when you think the opponent will be fast enough to dodge RtL.
3. Lightning flash+Fire grab is a great combo for landing the firegrab if a foe is already on fire
4. Lightning flash + Churning earth: the only way to actually land the spell
5. Lightning flash out of stun or to get some distance while running wvw. yes it doesn’t break stun, but it saves me from eating the whole of a hundred blades to the face and dying instantly.

It has both offense and defense, while adding a sprinkle of unpredictability to the weaponset. For that, it is still worth taking.

However, I would not be opposed to a 30s cooldown with no damage. That would just mean I could use it more often!

This ^. There’s also Lightning flash + FGS skill 3 and Lightning Flash + Untarget +FGS skill 4. Lightning flash is only meant to be used how the players wants to execute it whether that is for offense or defense purposes.

Worst teleport in the game. Compare lightning flash to shadowstep. You think I give a kitten about a measly 1.5k damage when it means giving up 300 range, the ability to port back, and condition clearing?

Lightning flash is absolutely terrible compared to similar skills, but there’s no choice about running it simply because the ability to instantly be somewhere else is invaluable.

Why everything about the ele needs to be compared. Stop with that outlook on the profession and you will enjoy it better. With my ele the dmg i do with lF goes from 2-4k. It has been proven very helpful to me on various situations.

BlackBeard.2873:

3. Lightning flash+Fire grab is a great combo for landing the firegrab if a foe is already on fire

There’s another of this if you’re d/d/ LF in the middle of burning speed then fire grab. It’s alot harder to get right but the bonus is if you can do it you’re guaranteeing burning on the enemy. Even though it’s added time usually the fact you ported to them tends to throw people off. You do hit with firegrab far more often than the novice move of burning speed → firegrab.

As for the topic at hand… lightning flash is always on my bar no matter what. I use it defensively, offensively and even to support my allies. I’d rather the damage removed for it to be on a shorter CD though,

LightningBlaze.4913:

Why everything about the ele needs to be compared. Stop with that outlook on the profession and you will enjoy it better. With my ele the dmg i do with lF goes from 2-4k. It has been proven very helpful to me on various situations.

The investment you would theoretically have to make to get that kind of damage on lightning flash is terrifying. You are also probably hitting paper with it. The fact is that LF got screwed over in comparison to other blink utilities. It is now the only one that both doesn’t break stun and can’t exceed 900 range, with the former being all to important in a meta full of stuns and fears. The ONLY really positive thing about this skill is that you can use it to break aegis before using a skill like Updraft or Churning Earth. The only reason people take it now is because (as was mentioned before) the ability to blink on a profession that has the lowest base armor and health is absolutely invaluable. That doesn’t mean the numbers are even close to ideal.

Caffynated.5713:

I would like it if they removed the damage all together and made it exactly like blink. Most advanced ele combos rely on LF to execute, so the more often it’s up, the more fluid ele plays.

Removing the damage would also help reduce the damage in the instagib combo.

I’d be happy with this. Remove the damage, return the stunbreak. People complain about the power of the untelegraphed ele burst; this would remove about 1.5k damage from the ideal burst combo. As a stunbreaker (again) you’d have to choose to either use the spell offensively or defensively, increasing the ability’s skill cap.

Besides, when using it defensively right now without the stunbreak, it feels incredibly choppy. It just looks and feels wrong to teleport to a spot and stand still for a couple of seconds.

Mine crits for about 4k, got a rare 7k on a thief that was running away from me.

Nihilus.3015:

Mine crits for about 4k, got a rare 7k on a thief that was running away from me.

No, it doesn’t.

ARM.3912:

Nihilus.3015:

Mine crits for about 4k, got a rare 7k on a thief that was running away from me.

No, it doesn’t.

It’s completely possible that he could have hit 7k with full zerker gear with a crit with full ascended gear with Fury, 25 stacks of might, the right traits while standing right next to the guy while teleporting while the enemy thief has 25 stacks of vulnerability and is a level 1 upleveled thief in WvW with no gear on.

Completely. Possible.

Ryld.1340:

ARM.3912:

Nihilus.3015:

Mine crits for about 4k, got a rare 7k on a thief that was running away from me.

No, it doesn’t.

It’s completely possible that he could have hit 7k with full zerker gear with a crit with full ascended gear with Fury, 25 stacks of might, the right traits while standing right next to the guy while teleporting while the enemy thief has 25 stacks of vulnerability and is a level 1 upleveled thief in WvW with no gear on.

Completely. Possible.

^

Ryld.1340:

ARM.3912:

Nihilus.3015:

Mine crits for about 4k, got a rare 7k on a thief that was running away from me.

No, it doesn’t.

It’s completely possible that he could have hit 7k with full zerker gear with a crit with full ascended gear with Fury, 25 stacks of might, the right traits while standing right next to the guy while teleporting while the enemy thief has 25 stacks of vulnerability and is a level 1 upleveled thief in WvW with no gear on.

Completely. Possible.

I had no might and he didnt have vulnerability <

Nihilus.3015:

Ryld.1340:

ARM.3912:

Nihilus.3015:

Mine crits for about 4k, got a rare 7k on a thief that was running away from me.

No, it doesn’t.

It’s completely possible that he could have hit 7k with full zerker gear with a crit with full ascended gear with Fury, 25 stacks of might, the right traits while standing right next to the guy while teleporting while the enemy thief has 25 stacks of vulnerability and is a level 1 upleveled thief in WvW with no gear on.

Completely. Possible.

I had no might and he didnt have vulnerability <

Oh. Then no, no you didn’t hit that hard.

Ryld.1340:

Nihilus.3015:

Ryld.1340:

ARM.3912:

Nihilus.3015:

Mine crits for about 4k, got a rare 7k on a thief that was running away from me.

No, it doesn’t.

It’s completely possible that he could have hit 7k with full zerker gear with a crit with full ascended gear with Fury, 25 stacks of might, the right traits while standing right next to the guy while teleporting while the enemy thief has 25 stacks of vulnerability and is a level 1 upleveled thief in WvW with no gear on.

Completely. Possible.

I had no might and he didnt have vulnerability <

Oh. Then no, no you didn’t hit that hard.

Even though I did, ya

Nihilus.3015:

Ryld.1340:

Nihilus.3015:

Ryld.1340:

ARM.3912:

Nihilus.3015:

Mine crits for about 4k, got a rare 7k on a thief that was running away from me.

No, it doesn’t.

It’s completely possible that he could have hit 7k with full zerker gear with a crit with full ascended gear with Fury, 25 stacks of might, the right traits while standing right next to the guy while teleporting while the enemy thief has 25 stacks of vulnerability and is a level 1 upleveled thief in WvW with no gear on.

Completely. Possible.

I had no might and he didnt have vulnerability <

Oh. Then no, no you didn’t hit that hard.

Even though I did, ya

Okay, look. Nobody is ever going to believe you. And you have nothing to gain from this.

See, that’s the thing about the Internet. People’s always saying stuff. The reasons may be attention, self-gratification, trolling, and so on. Sometimes a poor sucker do believe. But realistically, most of the time people won’t. They won’t believe people like you until proof is provided. Welcome to the Internet.

tl;dr pics or it didn’t happen

As an underpowered scepter/focus ele i have to use lightning flash offensively in order to put more then a scratch on my opponent. 40 sec cd for a teleport that is insanely hard to land a hit with, that puts me in harms way only to hit 400-900 on well geared and smart players.

It should at least stun them for 2-3 seconds.

Senjun.8149:

As an underpowered scepter/focus ele i have to use lightning flash offensively in order to put more then a scratch on my opponent. 40 sec cd for a teleport that is insanely hard to land a hit with, that puts me in harms way only to hit 400-900 on well geared and smart players.

It should at least stun them for 2-3 seconds.

It needs to serve its purpose, which is mobility/utility. When people justify it by comparing it to the mesmer’s Blink, which is known for having less overall utility pre-LF nerf, they never take into account that the mesmer can not only trait Blink to have greater range and reduced cooldown, but that their mechanics inherently make teleports more effective by messing with the targeting system in skirmish combat.

It’d be nice to have LF like Blink.

Azunai.5974:

Nihilus.3015:

Ryld.1340:

Nihilus.3015:

Ryld.1340:

ARM.3912:

Nihilus.3015:

Mine crits for about 4k, got a rare 7k on a thief that was running away from me.

No, it doesn’t.

It’s completely possible that he could have hit 7k with full zerker gear with a crit with full ascended gear with Fury, 25 stacks of might, the right traits while standing right next to the guy while teleporting while the enemy thief has 25 stacks of vulnerability and is a level 1 upleveled thief in WvW with no gear on.

Completely. Possible.

I had no might and he didnt have vulnerability <

Oh. Then no, no you didn’t hit that hard.

Even though I did, ya

Okay, look. Nobody is ever going to believe you. And you have nothing to gain from this.

See, that’s the thing about the Internet. People’s always saying stuff. The reasons may be attention, self-gratification, trolling, and so on. Sometimes a poor sucker do believe. But realistically, most of the time people won’t. They won’t believe people like you until proof is provided. Welcome to the Internet.

tl;dr pics or it didn’t happen

Still did it. Its common in dungeons too.

Leuca.5732:

Senjun.8149:

As an underpowered scepter/focus ele i have to use lightning flash offensively in order to put more then a scratch on my opponent. 40 sec cd for a teleport that is insanely hard to land a hit with, that puts me in harms way only to hit 400-900 on well geared and smart players.

It should at least stun them for 2-3 seconds.

It needs to serve its purpose, which is mobility/utility. When people justify it by comparing it to the mesmer’s Blink, which is known for having less overall utility pre-LF nerf, they never take into account that the mesmer can not only trait Blink to have greater range and reduced cooldown, but that their mechanics inherently make teleports more effective by messing with the targeting system in skirmish combat.

Oh definately, I’m only suggesting that because it seems anet wants us to use it offensively. If they want us to use it offensively then they should up its damage by 3 times the amount it is now and give it a stun.

As of now, it serves next to no relief from melee range and has an insanely long cd, whether lightning flash see’s a cooldown reduction/range increase or a damage boost/CC addition then ill be happy either way.

Nihilus.3015:

Azunai.5974:

Nihilus.3015:

Ryld.1340:

Nihilus.3015:

Ryld.1340:

ARM.3912:

Nihilus.3015:

Mine crits for about 4k, got a rare 7k on a thief that was running away from me.

No, it doesn’t.

It’s completely possible that he could have hit 7k with full zerker gear with a crit with full ascended gear with Fury, 25 stacks of might, the right traits while standing right next to the guy while teleporting while the enemy thief has 25 stacks of vulnerability and is a level 1 upleveled thief in WvW with no gear on.

Completely. Possible.

I had no might and he didnt have vulnerability <

Oh. Then no, no you didn’t hit that hard.

Even though I did, ya

Okay, look. Nobody is ever going to believe you. And you have nothing to gain from this.

See, that’s the thing about the Internet. People’s always saying stuff. The reasons may be attention, self-gratification, trolling, and so on. Sometimes a poor sucker do believe. But realistically, most of the time people won’t. They won’t believe people like you until proof is provided. Welcome to the Internet.

tl;dr pics or it didn’t happen

Still did it. Its common in dungeons too.

pics or it didn’t happen

Azunai.5974:

Nihilus.3015:

Azunai.5974:

Nihilus.3015:

Ryld.1340:

Nihilus.3015:

Ryld.1340:

ARM.3912:

Nihilus.3015:

Mine crits for about 4k, got a rare 7k on a thief that was running away from me.

No, it doesn’t.

It’s completely possible that he could have hit 7k with full zerker gear with a crit with full ascended gear with Fury, 25 stacks of might, the right traits while standing right next to the guy while teleporting while the enemy thief has 25 stacks of vulnerability and is a level 1 upleveled thief in WvW with no gear on.

Completely. Possible.

I had no might and he didnt have vulnerability <

Oh. Then no, no you didn’t hit that hard.

Even though I did, ya

Okay, look. Nobody is ever going to believe you. And you have nothing to gain from this.

See, that’s the thing about the Internet. People’s always saying stuff. The reasons may be attention, self-gratification, trolling, and so on. Sometimes a poor sucker do believe. But realistically, most of the time people won’t. They won’t believe people like you until proof is provided. Welcome to the Internet.

tl;dr pics or it didn’t happen

Still did it. Its common in dungeons too.

pics or it didn’t happen

Still didn’t happen even WITH pics(not that we will ever see them of course).

It just feels like LF should have a short stun of about 0.25-1s (like being hit with the air aura) and be perfectly justified with its current CD. For some reason I feel like there should be some offensive stun air can use (stakitten can be offensive, but that is 1 weapon-set, we are talkin utils).

Alys Florent.1359:

It’s meant to be used offensively. .

Its relatively useless in PvE because mobs don’t flee from CE very well. Its not great anywhere else either, because that means to land one of your hardest hitting weapon skills you have to combo it with a utility skill.

This kind of restriction and hamstringing isn’t seen on any other class in the game. Utility skills are supposed to bring utility and augment the class abilities, not be depended upon to make use of your primary weapon skills.

A good fix would be to switch LF and RtL. Make LF the number four skill on offhand dagger, remove the damage component, and give it an AoE blind, while lowering the CD to 30 seconds to keep it in line with CE. RtL can become a utility skill, give it damage equivalent to say Arcane Blast, keep the odd dual CD if they must, and make it break stuns. I would also make RtL do damage to anyone it hits in the path, and do AoE damage at the end.

That way, you channel CE, switch to Air and LF to the target. Makes for a much more organic and smooth playstyle. RtL as a stunbreaking gap closer/opener makes much more sense as a utility skill, adding damage as its not a teleport like Blink.

Kaleban.9834:

Alys Florent.1359:

It’s meant to be used offensively. .

Its relatively useless in PvE because mobs don’t flee from CE very well. Its not great anywhere else either, because that means to land one of your hardest hitting weapon skills you have to combo it with a utility skill.

This kind of restriction and hamstringing isn’t seen on any other class in the game. Utility skills are supposed to bring utility and augment the class abilities, not be depended upon to make use of your primary weapon skills.

A good fix would be to switch LF and RtL. Make LF the number four skill on offhand dagger, remove the damage component, and give it an AoE blind, while lowering the CD to 30 seconds to keep it in line with CE. RtL can become a utility skill, give it damage equivalent to say Arcane Blast, keep the odd dual CD if they must, and make it break stuns. I would also make RtL do damage to anyone it hits in the path, and do AoE damage at the end.

That way, you channel CE, switch to Air and LF to the target. Makes for a much more organic and smooth playstyle. RtL as a stunbreaking gap closer/opener makes much more sense as a utility skill, adding damage as its not a teleport like Blink.

This is a really interesting idea, but it further pigeonholes eles into d/d. Both RtL and LF need QoL adjustments, but putting our only true blink on an offhand weapon gives it way too much for the other sets to be viable without over-buffing their own utility. A better idea (in my opinion) would be to give RtL and LF the changes they need (mainly CD and the stunbreak revert) and to reduce the casting time on CE. It’s still really obviously telegraphed, as an ele must first attune to earth to even use it in the first place; giving opponents a warning before casting even starts. (there should be a thread touching on how elementalist skills are pre-telegraphed because of our attunement animations) The only time this doesn’t apply is with ambush CE burst, but cutting the cast time in half isn’t going to change that drastically.