Guild Wars 2

I had this idea while posting about Ele spec problems in another thread, but before I explain I’ll explain where I’m coming from in terms of game balance.

I’ve been a fire nuke since before Guild Wars had a secondary title. I found the GW2 staff to be boring for me, though, so I went D/D. I love it. The play style required for D/D is so in-your-face and speedy. But we don’t have henchmen and heroes anymore, so the squishiness of an Elementalist is more evident than ever. And our ability to nuke just doesn’t seem as powerful any more.

So like a lot of people, I’ve been forced to adapt. And the only real way to adapt is to pump points and gear stats into defense and survivability, like 30 Water. And it’s nice, actually. I can hold my own more than ever, I like some of the new things I’m able to pull off (Evasive Arcana), and I still feel agile. But I don’t feel powerful. Sure, I can solo a Champion now, but it takes forever. I just do not feel that strong. It’s just slow attrition, like bleeding to death from a paper cut.

Imagine if rather than Mohammad Ali’s rope-a-dope technique involved hanging in there as his opponent tired and then coming out swinging in full force later, but rather that it meant that he just waited until his opponent died of hunger.

That’s what it feels like for a defensive Elementalist. I believe the term is Bunker?

But we don’t have much choice, do we? Because going the Power/Prec route with traits and stats means giving up our survivability for pretty minimal offensive return.

So here’s my idea for a solution that doesn’t involve nerfing Eles into the ground, or buffing them into gods, and I want to hear people’s thoughts on it:

Remove armor class restrictions

The classic trope is that spellcasters wear cloth, rangers/rogues wear leather, and warriors wear chain and plate. But that doesn’t really make sense, does it? Wouldn’t you want the best armor possible no matter what your class is? It makes sense for rangers, rogues, and warriors, but it doesn’t make sense for spellcasters.

And it certainly doesn’t make sense with the current state of Elementalists. We’re forced wear cloth armor, but we’re also forced to pump all points into defensive and supporting traits.

Think about it: What is Vitality and Toughness if not invisible armor? So we’re still forced to wear cloth armor, but then we just put on invisible plate armor over top of it?

Why not just let us wear medium or heavy armor? Then we wouldn’t have to pump so many stats & points into defense. Then they could potentially afford to buff us offensively and/or nerf us defensively.

And before you anyone says, “But then what’s to keep Elementalists from still pumping all their points into defense/support and becoming an unstoppable tank?”

Add a caveat to wearing the wrong armor for your class that makes something slightly less effective the greater the disparity is between class and armor. For instance, the higher the armor, the weaker the Water and Earth benefits (or the class equivalent).

In The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, if someone wore an armor type they weren’t skilled in, their magic was less effective.

So we could get better armor, which would allow us to survive more easily without speccing for Bunker, and we could finally afford to put points into Fire/Air.

Not only would it open up a lot of options for customization in terms of gear styles, but I think it would finally allow the Elementalist to the the jack-of-all-trades they’re meant to be and open up a lot of specialization options.

It’s not perfect and would take some tweaking. And maybe it would just be easier to buff Power/Prec. But I think it could work

So, is it a good idea, or am I just crazy?

It’s an interesting concept, but what they should be doing is fixing our trait system so that there’s more synergy between all of the lines rather than just 2 1/2 of them. The synergy coming from fire/earth is pretty bad when you try to utilize it with all the other lines. They should be improving functionality/flow of weapon sets as a secondary directive.

Not messing up things that already worked would already be a good start. Undoing most of the nerf and buff done since the release…

I am convinced there isn’t really a way to “fix” the ele. We are squishies with high healing as our only survivability. The only way you don’t immediately implode would be to:

1.) Nuke everything quickly so it dies faster – this is not an option, Anet wants to decrease burst, not increase it. Also, they want thieves to do this.
2.) Evade like crazy – this won’t happen b/c that is already one of the many thief tropes, and Anet doesn’t want to invade on their pet class
3.) Actually give us some better base vitality/tougness – this could be an option, but it would also help the bunker, which is a good spec in spvp
4.) War of attrition – this is the bunker, and it means embracing our strength (healing) and running with it. This is the only viable option for the ele given the way they want classes to be structured. We aren’t the jack of all trades, we are the master-healers who do some other things o.k. too.
5.) Control – give more ways to CC (in utilities and skills), making condition builds possible. This will not be viable in PvE as bosses cannot be controlled at all, but it could work in PvP. Unfortunately, being stunned/controlled isn’t very fun for opponents, so this isn’t happening.
6.) Speed – I am not even talking about being as fast as thieves, but increasing the maneuverability of ranged options (more inherent displacement built into skills) so that ranged playstyles have a way to juke close-range or maintain distance. Again, won’t happen b/c eles should be slow according to Anet.

Eles will never be given the offense to be an effective glass cannon, and balanced builds don’t work when everything kills you so easily. Bunker is the only way the class can play. I am not sure traits will fix it, it will only change the flavor of bunkers you see.

I feel that Mesmers can do so much more damage when specced as glass cannon, while still having higher survivability than Eles glass. Why aren’t the base HPs swapped already?

Swim.6830:

I feel that Mesmers can do so much more damage when specced as glass cannon, while still having higher survivability than Eles glass. Why aren’t the base HPs swapped already?

Because of the bunker. They want the bunker to be middle-of-the-road, so that more people play guardian. If they switched HP, the bunker would be improved. I wish they would just nerf our healing and cleansing into the ground so that we are completely unviable. Then they could buff into a more balanced direction in 6 months.

BlackBeard.2873:

Swim.6830:

I feel that Mesmers can do so much more damage when specced as glass cannon, while still having higher survivability than Eles glass. Why aren’t the base HPs swapped already?

Because of the bunker. They want the bunker to be middle-of-the-road, so that more people play guardian. If they switched HP, the bunker would be improved. I wish they would just nerf our healing and cleansing into the ground so that we are completely unviable. Then they could buff into a more balanced direction in 6 months.

When my fire attunement does 4k damage, my water dazes, my air confuses people and earth makes me immune, I will be happy (all this considering NOTHING else changes).

Swim.6830:

When my fire attunement does 4k damage, my water dazes, my air confuses people and earth makes me immune, I will be happy (all this considering NOTHING else changes).

That actually is a very interesting idea. It would be cool to see individual elements really specialize well, rather than just kind-of blend together like they do now. Fire should have some offensive teeth (need more damage). Water should have some chilling and good healing (is in a pretty good place right now). Air should have more speed and single-person damage, but only single-target damage. Earth should have high defense and condition damage, but much lower base-damage. That would be very cool to see. Unfortunately, we have 3 attunements with various flavors of similar skills, and then water.

BlackBeard.2873:

I am convinced there isn’t really a way to “fix” the ele. We are squishies with high healing as our only survivability. The only way you don’t immediately implode would be to:

1.) Nuke everything quickly so it dies faster – this is not an option, Anet wants to decrease burst, not increase it. Also, they want thieves to do this.
2.) Evade like crazy – this won’t happen b/c that is already one of the many thief tropes, and Anet doesn’t want to invade on their pet class
3.) Actually give us some better base vitality/tougness – this could be an option, but it would also help the bunker, which is a good spec in spvp
4.) War of attrition – this is the bunker, and it means embracing our strength (healing) and running with it. This is the only viable option for the ele given the way they want classes to be structured. We aren’t the jack of all trades, we are the master-healers who do some other things o.k. too.
5.) Control – give more ways to CC (in utilities and skills), making condition builds possible. This will not be viable in PvE as bosses cannot be controlled at all, but it could work in PvP. Unfortunately, being stunned/controlled isn’t very fun for opponents, so this isn’t happening.
6.) Speed – I am not even talking about being as fast as thieves, but increasing the maneuverability of ranged options (more inherent displacement built into skills) so that ranged playstyles have a way to juke close-range or maintain distance. Again, won’t happen b/c eles should be slow according to Anet.

Eles will never be given the offense to be an effective glass cannon, and balanced builds don’t work when everything kills you so easily. Bunker is the only way the class can play. I am not sure traits will fix it, it will only change the flavor of bunkers you see.

Well, see, therein lies the problem. Elementalists are essentially forced to just be monks with added flavor. We’re supposed to be squishy, with high damage output to compensate/high damaging, while squishy to compensate.

Elementalists are the true mages of the Guild Wars world. We bend the world to our will. No other class does that. Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, and Heart…er, Arcana. So why are we so darn weak?

What’s the point of forcing us to use squishy armor if we have no other choice but to compensate by putting all of our power towards maintaining our defenses ourselves? We’re just turtles, then. Why even fight? Why even go into battle? If they’re not going to make the Elementalist what it’s supposed to be, which is walking artillery, then what’s the point of making an Elementalist at all?

I don’t buy the idea that the Thief should be the high damage machine. Not even from a genre standpoint. Rogues are about precision strikes, circumventing defenses to take out an enemy, finding the weakness. They’re essentially assassins or special ops.

Our role as Elementalists is to be the airstrike. We’re supposed to be the volley of arrows, the gattling gun that culls the enemy heard while the foot soldiers charge in.

But we’re not. We’re turtles. And not even snapping turtles.

So if they’re not going to build the Elementalist traits so that we aren’t a pointless class, they should at least let us wear the better shell so we can afford to go out and make something of ourselves other than forcing us to just be Monks and Clerics with a different name. Or is that simply their way of circumventing their “no Holy Trinity” rule?

BlackBeard.2873:

Swim.6830:

When my fire attunement does 4k damage, my water dazes, my air confuses people and earth makes me immune, I will be happy (all this considering NOTHING else changes).

That actually is a very interesting idea. It would be cool to see individual elements really specialize well, rather than just kind-of blend together like they do now. Fire should have some offensive teeth (need more damage). Water should have some chilling and good healing (is in a pretty good place right now). Air should have more speed and single-person damage, but only single-target damage. Earth should have high defense and condition damage, but much lower base-damage. That would be very cool to see. Unfortunately, we have 3 attunements with various flavors of similar skills, and then water.

THIS

That’s what I think too. There needs to be a way for elementalist to specialize in one element. In fact, I wouldn’t mind being in water only if I could swap between D/D and staff while in battle. That would probably be my preferred build.

Perhaps there could be a 31st trait for each element that would then open up an elemental specialization path.

Maybe selecting that trait would also lock out all the other elements’ traits aside from their base stat bonuses (+power & +con dur, +prec & +crit, etc). So you could then spend points for stronger, more elementally specialized traits. And while you could still get the base benefit from speccing the other elements, you wouldn’t get their special abilities, so you’d be more inclined to continue specializing in the one element*.

*and that it would be strong enough to be worthwhile

Roll a Warrior.
15chars

Windwalker.2047:

Roll a Warrior.
15chars

Oh, why didn’t I think of it before? They should just take out all the other classes and make everyone a warrior! Then the game will be perfectly balanced!

And utterly boring. :P

The point is to give the classes options, to make them special while still keeping the game balanced—like Rock, Paper, Scissors. You’re just as likely to win throwing one as you are throwing another, but each requires the right circumstance.

But that’s not what we have. What we have is a game where throwing Scissors beats Paper, throwing Rock beats Scissors AND Paper, and throwing Paper just has to hope the opponent eventually bleeds to death from a paper cut while you pretend your Paper is actually Rock.

There’s no reason to nix our bunker build. Has anyone seen what happens when a Guardian, or any other class goes for protection builds? They are near impossible to take down…. even when an Ele traits pure damage. AND, that Ele has two other players whacking away at the “bunker” target.

Swim.6830:

When my fire attunement does 4k damage, my water dazes, my air confuses people and earth makes me immune, I will be happy (all this considering NOTHING else changes).

If you mean on attunement effects, that would take some serious reworking.

Swim.6830:

BlackBeard.2873:

Swim.6830:

I feel that Mesmers can do so much more damage when specced as glass cannon, while still having higher survivability than Eles glass. Why aren’t the base HPs swapped already?

Because of the bunker. They want the bunker to be middle-of-the-road, so that more people play guardian. If they switched HP, the bunker would be improved. I wish they would just nerf our healing and cleansing into the ground so that we are completely unviable. Then they could buff into a more balanced direction in 6 months.

When my fire attunement does 4k damage, my water dazes, my air confuses people and earth makes me immune, I will be happy (all this considering NOTHING else changes).

Haha with our cooldowns rather than the mesmers? (60 sec base for distortion) Tbh having earth with 60s cd and 4x the power would be hilarious. Earthquake would destroy mountains.