Guild Wars 2

I’m probably not going to lay this out in a coherent manner but oh well…….

I’ve been playing since release my first 80 was an ele and since then I’ve played most other classes to 80. Of those classes I’ve done a great amount of WvW roaming with warrior, mesmer, guardian and ele.

I’m trying to understand what’s the compensation for the ele for having the lowest defense in game passive and active. Let’s face it, every class in this game can do great damage, every class can heal, and most classes have great defense….most.

Of the light armor classes (and maybe of most the classes) we’re the one lacking a class defining defense mechanism that properly compensate for our lack of passive defense.
Of the classes that I roam with warrior has great armor, great hp, great active defense (too numerous to list), and great damage; guardian has heavy armor, moderate hp, has great defensive mechanic (boons), very good damage, good hp; Mesmer has great damage, low armor, moderate hp, awesome active defense (clones, stealth); elementalist has great damage, low hp, low armor, and at best a moderate defensive.

So why does the elementalist has the worst defense in game again?

Maybe I’m missing something here and maybe some of you can shed some light on the matter for me.

Then again maybe I’m not making sense……

Pretty sure the devs just don’t play ele so they have no idea what its like having to be either a bunker ele that does 0 damage or a glass nerf gun that does only semi decent dmg and dies in 3 seconds.

Well it’s because we have twice the abilities with half the damage and usefulness and double the cooldown. Oh wait…

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Pretty sure the devs just don’t play ele so they have no idea what its like having to be either a bunker ele that does 0 damage or a glass nerf gun that does only semi decent dmg and dies in 3 seconds.

This. Until they actually spend time playing the class in all modes they will not understand HOW to balance us.

Versatility. If you make an elementalist build that excels in just 1 thing, you’re not playing to your fullest potential. It’s not bunker or glass cannon. Builds that are a mix of both perform best in PvP. As for PvE, ele dps is among the highest out there so there they get extra damage.

ThiBash.5634:

Versatility. If you make an elementalist build that excels in just 1 thing, you’re not playing to your fullest potential. It’s not bunker or glass cannon. Builds that are a mix of both perform best in PvP. As for PvE, ele dps is among the highest out there so there they get extra damage.

See arguments like these could also be why we don’t get fixed. If you make an ele build that is a good mix of all stats. The ele will be sub par at everything. If you make a warrior for example with a good mix of all stats he is good at everything. As for the high dmg argument. In pvp an ele only has high dmg if speced full on glass cannon with no defensive mechanic to survive and your enemies all clump together and don’t attack back. Anybody with even a smidget of a brain will just move out of your aoe or attack back and kill you in seconds. This threads title is also the reason almost all ele’s are forced into using cantrips. Because its absolutely necessary to use those defensive utilites/cantrips to attempt to survive.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

See arguments like these could also be why we don’t get fixed. If you make an ele build that is a good mix of all stats. The ele will be sub par at everything. If you make a warrior for example with a good mix of all stats he is good at everything.

That’s a problem with the warrior more than it is with the ele.

Let me put it in another way: if you have a weapon that deals both bleeding and power, you will only get optimal performance if you add both power and condition damage. The resulting build will be a build that doesn’t deal the best raw damage, nor the best bleeding damage, but the combination will be optimal. However, for the elementalist people are purposefully ignoring the fact that their weaponsets do a lot of different things, and then complain when they focus on a single thing. Unless you make use of all of your skills, you’ll fall short. But because players only want bunkers or damage dealers, nobody wants the ele. But the other side of the argument is that a balanced ele will deal more damage than full bunkers, and can take more hits than full glass cannons. For most people however, that seems to be unacceptable but for the small group that can work with that, the ele rocks.

As for the high dmg argument. In pvp…

That’s why I said PvE.

ThiBash.5634:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

See arguments like these could also be why we don’t get fixed. If you make an ele build that is a good mix of all stats. The ele will be sub par at everything. If you make a warrior for example with a good mix of all stats he is good at everything.

That’s a problem with the warrior more than it is with the ele.

Let me put it in another way: if you have a weapon that deals both bleeding and power, you will only get optimal performance if you add both power and condition damage. The resulting build will be a build that doesn’t deal the best raw damage, nor the best bleeding damage, but the combination will be optimal. However, for the elementalist people are purposefully ignoring the fact that their weaponsets do a lot of different things, and then complain when they focus on a single thing. Unless you make use of all of your skills, you’ll fall short. But because players only want bunkers or damage dealers, nobody wants the ele. But the other side of the argument is that a balanced ele will deal more damage than full bunkers, and can take more hits than full glass cannons. For most people however, that seems to be unacceptable but for the small group that can work with that, the ele rocks.

As for the high dmg argument. In pvp…

That’s why I said PvE.

Almost all weapons we got that apply conditions, do so very sub-par and in a non-meaningful way. I do get your point, but here is a challenge for you – make me a balanced build as you would in spvp with the current provided amulets…

Some abilities we have are so sub-par it’s inexcusable (compare fire grab to any similar ability in terms of damage or in terms of cooldown for example). In the end even if we can do so many things, we have to use twice the effort and any similarly experienced opponent with another class will have the edge most of the time.

Anet said no trinity in game and as a result most of the game is built around that, except for the ele. It seems that Anet for the most part, still think of the Ele a traditional cloth caster able to burn down opponents before they can get within attack range. And that is completely not the case, with the amount of gap closers available to all classes. I would say the the Ele’s so called range advantage is a near completely nullified.

Other cloth caster like the mesmer and necros have great core mechanics that allow them to sustain a fight without sacrificing much of their offensive punch.

No trinity means, essentially means that every class has to the overall abilities to reach the same outcomes.

And yes I’ve read up on the upcoming additions of the new grandmaster traits and that’s all fine but they don’t address our core defensive deficiency without cause.

I’ll probably get another infraction for this but I’d only be embarrassed if I was a balance dev with the time and decision making of balancing in gw2…. utterly embarrassed.

Zutha.5091:

I’ll probably get another infraction for this but I’d only be embarrassed if I was a balance dev with the time and decision making of balancing in gw2…. utterly embarrassed.

I doubt they are. They are so insanely bias towards certain classes that its becoming a joke. Just look at Warrior it is a complete and utter mess that has too much of everything and sacrifices NOTHING. Guess what class they all play as well….

It is time Anet said enough is enough removed them from the roles and replaced them with people that aren’t so insanely bias towards certain classes. Until that happens, this game will NEVER be anywhere near balanced. In fact, it has gotten WORSE the longer the game has gone on.

@OP
The devs believe that the water attunement heals are our “defense mechanism” and that elementalist needs nothing more. We also have invulnerability skills [obsidian flesh, mist form, arcane shield) with high cooldowns who aren’t as effective as a Mesmer’s clones or a Thief’s stealth or a Warrior’s high armor & HP.
Devs don’t care about elementalist and think that everything about the ele is fine and dandy. Also their “hurr durr l2p issue” fanboys are here everywhere giving them back up.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Pretty sure the devs just don’t play ele so they have no idea what its like having to be either a bunker ele that does 0 damage or a glass nerf gun that does only semi decent dmg and dies in 3 seconds.

This. Until they actually spend time playing the class in all modes they will not understand HOW to balance us.

I’m sure to them we’re fine, on paper. In action theorys and numbers don’t really add up the way devs think and thats where alot of balance issues lie, not just for us but every class.

Versatility was given as excuse for ele “balancing” many times by developers….

It have been used for:
-our awful CD
-our subpar mobility (and as proposal to nerf FGS mobility)
-for our reduced effectiveness of skills (see our utilities being less effective)
-our low HP and armor
-our lack of survival mechanic
-our RANGE limitation (this is the worse)

I would say that ele is the least versatile profession due to lack of weapon change (you get a mix of conditions, direct damage and defensive stuff, all in a single range without being able to CHOOSE how you want as other profession do… )..

But seems devs are obsessed from the fact we have 20 skills…even if in most situations 15-16 are useless.

LordByron.8369:

But seems devs are obsessed from the fact we have 20 skills…even if in most situations 15-16 are useless.

That’s the worse point IMO.

Whats the point of having 20 skills in my toolbar, if i need 2 skills to do something that a warrior can do with 1, with a small cooldown… Thats ridiculous

When you ignore our traits we have very limit ways of survival in our core mechanics. Swap attunement to water drop a heal/regen that can easily be outdps. Easy to see why most elementalist use cantrips, spec for boon duration, 15water or 30arcane.

I use my ele in WVW as a full zerk staff ele that can defend the hell outta a tower/keep and contribute a lot to breaking zergs with massive aoes. I don’t expect to be tanky at all, but one thing that annoys me to no end is the fact that any thief I may happen to come upon while roaming with a s/d fresh air build can 1-2 shot me without me even seeing them. Heart-seeker into Back-stab 13-20k damage = one dead ele, I have 0 chance to do anything. It’s insane that a thief can do so much more damage than an ele, the highest I have hit was about 34k when like 10 of the meteors from my MS hit one poor kitten on an AC. This game does weird stuff with the armor classes where heavier armor= higher dps, survivability, healing, everything whereas light armor= Good DPS and 0 survivability or High survivability and 0 DPS.

Wow! Maybe I should have posted the issue as stated above instead of giving suggestions to improve the elementalist.

Read this thread I posted about the very same concerns regarding the elementalist, but more importantly read the responses…almost everyone disagreed with me and some even insinuated that I was being a troll. You will notice I posted under the Profession Balance bulletin hoping for a collaborative discourse.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Elementalist-Play-Testing/first#post3832575

I love the idea of the elementalist and the use of 20 different skills between four attunements…i love the speed the ele offers, so I seriously hope the devs listen and will make meaningful changes. The upcoming changes this April are a step in the right direction. Only time will tell, but I think those changes are not yet enough.

Every profession have his pro and con.

Elementalist are already at the top of the profession in dungeon and are essential part of a Zerg. So i think its ok if they are at the bottom of the food chain in roaming/spvp.

“Every profession have his pro and con.

Elementalist are already at the top of the profession in dungeon and are essential part of a Zerg. So i think its ok if they are at the bottom of the food chain in roaming/spvp."

Then can you explain why a warrior can do it all? Pros and cons are apart of class balance, but it shouldn’t be a part of which aspects of the game you can play, because if it was you would see everybody running the same class.

_

“Every profession have his pro and con.

Elementalist are already at the top of the profession in dungeon and are essential part of a Zerg. So i think its ok if they are at the bottom of the food chain in roaming/spvp."_

Then can you explain why a warrior can do it all? Pros and cons are apart of class balance, but it shouldn’t be a part of which aspects of the game you can play, because if it was you would see everybody running the same class.

Thaddeus.4891:

Every profession have his pro and con.

Elementalist are already at the top of the profession in dungeon and are essential part of a Zerg. So i think its ok if they are at the bottom of the food chain in roaming/spvp.

You have no evidence to support your statement. Looking at the LFG post in-game will tell a completely different story. Most that ask for specific classes will ask for warriors, guardians and occasional mesmers. Sometimes for groups running AC they will ask for an ele specifically to use the ice bow on the burrows and that’s it. For the most part, the potential damage classes can do is near par and eles are asked to be on groups for damage, warriors are and they can tank the punisherment on top.

And the only reason eles are useful to zergs is because of the water fields and not it’s damage. And at that you only need just a few eles to provide water fields for the entire zerg the rest are just there for the added dps which every class is contributing too. If a commander could choose to have all warriors, guardians, with 2 eles for water fields and a mesmer or two for cloak/portal, they most likely would.

Your statement isn’t valid in the least. We are semi useful in some dungeons types and a water field generator for zergs therefore we should unjustifiably suffer in all other aspects of the game.

In addition to not having a core class defining defensive ability like EVER other class in game.

lowest defense/hp, and we get just average dmg. no compensation.

4 attunements, wow! and we get super long cooldowns for that. orz
on top of that we lose getting bloodlust/perception stacks on 2nd weapon swap. while we seemingly benefit from on swap sigils, they all have an ICD of 10 secs! WTH!

i would take stack sigils over swap sigils anytime.

4 attunements, 20 skills, compensated with liabilities.

elementalist, crippled in so many ways. what is anet thinking when designing elementalist?

Fun.

What more reason do you need to play a game, to play an elly?

guys stop whining eles are great and fun to play. It doesn’t matter if we are weaker ’cause then we can outplay our opponent and if you cant then you need to train harder or reroll to other profession.
Oh and i only play D/D ele

Slanderman unfortunately this game is so unbalanced that outplaying is not enough…
You can t outplay an average thief, mesmer or warrior even if you are perfect.

Your only hope is they are bad or they can simply disengage at will
That is not fun.

I thought it was just me. I’ve had the game since closed beta. I just started playing ele (I’m at level 34) and I thought I was dying really quickly, even to PvE monsters.
I thought I just needed to trait better…

Lowest defense in compensated how?

By more complex game play, and less effectiveness for twice the effort ie. it isn’t compensated at all. Devs do not play ele and have no clue about them

I may not be the best player, but I’m good enough to know I suck at the elementalist. For the longest time I figured I just needed practice, and to an extent this is true; however, I also play other classes, the guardian being my main and the Mesmer my favorite alt, and I get way more out of those classes with much less time investment. The elementalist goes beyond having a difficult play style…the class is simply kitten.

I have played since the first betta and my only class I have gotten to lvl 80 is ele. I love the play style of ele and i have a lot of fun but i feel like some of our abilities are just lackluster expecially when you consider we have the lowest armor rating and lowest base health in game. I am very exp in playing ele so i can tell when i out play someone, which i do alot. i win most all 1 v 1, but a lot of the time it does not matter how well i play against certian players. Its just the simple fact that some classes are better. i believe we need some buffs that make completely useless skills useful. i.e. flamewall, firesheild, freezing gust, etc. there is not point to have 20 skills when a lot of them are not even worth the time it takes to cast them. The point is they have a ton of OBVIOUS week points that need to be adressed
Even with saying all of this I love the playstyle ele

Thesiuss.2679:

Thaddeus.4891:

Every profession have his pro and con.

Elementalist are already at the top of the profession in dungeon and are essential part of a Zerg. So i think its ok if they are at the bottom of the food chain in roaming/spvp.

You have no evidence to support your statement. Looking at the LFG post in-game will tell a completely different story. Most that ask for specific classes will ask for warriors, guardians and occasional mesmers. Sometimes for groups running AC they will ask for an ele specifically to use the ice bow on the burrows and that’s it.

Already a lot of post about that. Pugs want Warrior, Guardian and Mesmer because they are 1 year late on the meta. They also prefer heavies only because they are easier to play. Most good group of dungeon player will use a wider scope of profession and Elementalist is on top of the list. I don’t really give a crap about LFG posting, usually because the worst post don’t get full right away and accumulate more than the other (so you see more heavies only, or 5k AP post)

Thesiuss.2679:

For the most part, the potential damage classes can do is near par and eles are asked to be on groups for damage, warriors are and they can tank the punisherment on top.

Warrior can reach their top DPS wihtout much problem. Ele most of the time do less dmg because its hard to get high DPS with them. But an good Ele player can make a lot more DPS than an warrior. And what you talking about tank the punishment is only breathing room for me. Ya its easier to survive on a Warrior but i’ll do less DPS with my warrior.

Thesiuss.2679:

And the only reason eles are useful to zergs is because of the water fields and not it’s damage. And at that you only need just a few eles to provide water fields for the entire zerg the rest are just there for the added dps which every class is contributing too. If a commander could choose to have all warriors, guardians, with 2 eles for water fields and a mesmer or two for cloak/portal, they most likely would.

Are you a commander? I’m talking about a organized guild zerg commander. Because you don’t seem to be. If you have only warrior and guardian with 2 eles you gonna be range to death. You gonna have a good melee train, that for sure, but that’s the easier trick in the book to counter. You need a good balance of melee train and range pressure if you want to win. With that kind of support you have no peripheral pressure, either you eles will be killed early in the game or you melee train will have to protect their ele in priority, and not doing their jobs. If you melee train is fast enough to reach the other melee train and outmanned them, then the ennemy Necro will put wells and Eles will put Meteor Shower directly on their own melee train as a trap, by the time your melee train get out, there is no eles for water field and they become an easy target. So ya guardian, warrior, 2 eles and 1 mesmer is only good against pugs groups, so not that good of a commander if he choose that composition. And if you think that an Ele Meteor shower is just some added DPS like the rest, you never had your melee train partially wipe by a single Zerker Elementalist’s Meteor shower/Tornado at the right place.

Does the Eles need to be buff for Roaming and sPvP? I believe that yes. But Eles are at a really great place in WvW and in Dungeon right now. And if you don’t see that or complain that they can’t do good damage, then you obviously just don’t know how to make good DPS with a Eles, because right now they are one of the profession with the highest DPS. Its just hard as hell to reach that DPS, so most people think that their Ele do kitten dps.

Actually despite what people says, meteor shower is far less effective than necro’s aoes that lasts forever and have faster cast…

Its really hard with good commanders to land a meteor shower in the proper spot since zerg are dynamic and they never run straigt.

Its awesome for tagging and it deals lot of damage but its hard to land and soon really easy to avoid (see red circle incoming).

LordByron.8369:

Actually despite what people says, meteor shower is far less effective than necro’s aoes that lasts forever and have faster cast…

Its really hard with good commanders to land a meteor shower in the proper spot since zerg are dynamic and they never run straigt.

Its awesome for tagging and it deals lot of damage but its hard to land and soon really easy to avoid (see red circle incoming).

True. Necro are better for constant DPS. Especially since Ele also have other responsability (static field for switfness, static field for stun, water field, etc) But Meteor Shower is a great burst DPS. Its hard to use correctly, but when you get it right, its devastating. The best is on choke point like at a gate, when the ele can start to cast it just before the zerg come in so they don’t really have any time to react. Even when it don’t hit that much, Meteor shower is great to force a ennemy zerg to spread. When the ennemy commander call that a meteor shower is on them, usually a couple of his follower spread not in the same direction as the commander, these player are easier to target after. Like i said earlier, its also great to cast on yourself while using your our zerg as bait to lure the ennemy directly in the AoE. Especially good against enemy zerg with a bigger melee train.

Thaddeus.4891:

Every profession have his pro and con.

Elementalist are already at the top of the profession in dungeon and are essential part of a Zerg. So i think its ok if they are at the bottom of the food chain in roaming/spvp.

This is completely wrong. IIRC anet stated as their goal is that any class should be able to spec into any build and still be on par with other similar builds of other classes.

The best example would be warriors. Warriors can spec to be bunkers, support, DPS, or Condi.

Kyon.9735:

Thaddeus.4891:

Every profession have his pro and con.

Elementalist are already at the top of the profession in dungeon and are essential part of a Zerg. So i think its ok if they are at the bottom of the food chain in roaming/spvp.

This is completely wrong. IIRC anet stated as their goal is that any class should be able to spec into any build and still be on par with other similar builds of other classes.

The best example would be warriors. Warriors can spec to be bunkers, support, DPS, or Condi.

Its not because its their goal, that its the reality. Necro are bad in PvE, but good in WvW or sPvP. Ele are good in dungeon and WvW, but not that good in sPvP. Mesmer are good in sPvP or Dungeon, but not that good in Zerg. I’m just saying that i can live with that because i play different profession in different role.

Thaddeus.4891:

Kyon.9735:

Thaddeus.4891:

Every profession have his pro and con.

Elementalist are already at the top of the profession in dungeon and are essential part of a Zerg. So i think its ok if they are at the bottom of the food chain in roaming/spvp.

This is completely wrong. IIRC anet stated as their goal is that any class should be able to spec into any build and still be on par with other similar builds of other classes.

The best example would be warriors. Warriors can spec to be bunkers, support, DPS, or Condi.

Its not because its their goal, that its the reality. Necro are bad in PvE, but good in WvW or sPvP. Ele are good in dungeon and WvW, but not that good in sPvP. Mesmer are good in sPvP or Dungeon, but not that good in Zerg. I’m just saying that i can live with that because i play different profession in different role.

But that doesn’t justify certain classes being bad in a certain part of a game when their real goal is to make it balanced.

The real topic here is:

• Thief has low HP and medium armor but they get superior burst, evades, mobility and stealth (which is broken) to compensate.
• Necros have low armor, high HP, 2 HP bars but they have no access to stability to compensate.
• Guardians are tanky because of high armor and heals a lot but they the lowest HP and poor mobility to compensate.
• Engineers have a so much access to CCs but they lack stability themselves to compensate.
• Warriors have high HP and Armor but they get mobility, sustain, and immunities to compensate… err, what?

So what do Eles get in general to compensate for being in the lowest HP and Armor tier especially in PvP? The damage can be justified in PvE because monster AIs are not good enough to learn to dodge but certainly not in PvP.

Kyon.9735:

So what do Eles get in general to compensate for being in the lowest HP and Armor tier especially in PvP? The damage can be justified in PvE because monster AIs are not good enough to learn to dodge but certainly not in PvP.

True. Eles compensate Surviability by high dmg and good support. But that’s only good in group when other profession can take profit of the Eles and help them survive in return.

But in roaming or sPvP, Eles don’t have that much to compensation in their own survivability, mainly because of Cooldowns. Anet gave a bunch of surviability skills to the ele to ’’compensate’’, but they were afraid that with that much skills, an eles will be overpowered, so they gave those skills some long cooldown. But, in the end if you only use a part of these skills, or don’t have the right trait, then you are left with a kittenty personnal surviability in a 1vs1 setting.

Armor of Earth for exemple. Its the same freaking skill as the Guardian’s ‘’Stand your ground’’. It give 1 more second of stability and protection and in compensation, its only work for the eles not the party and have 3 times the cooldown. 1 sec of boons is not the same thing as 3 times the cd.

You had boons and healing, but since they nerfed it you dont get much

Ugruk.4069:

You had boons and healing, but since they nerfed it you dont get much

And they added boon stealing + conversion for some classes (it’s good counter but we should get a buff to all our boons then as everything we had and have was balanced without these things)

Thaddeus.4891:

LordByron.8369:

Actually despite what people says, meteor shower is far less effective than necro’s aoes that lasts forever and have faster cast…

Its really hard with good commanders to land a meteor shower in the proper spot since zerg are dynamic and they never run straigt.

Its awesome for tagging and it deals lot of damage but its hard to land and soon really easy to avoid (see red circle incoming).

True. Necro are better for constant DPS. Especially since Ele also have other responsability (static field for switfness, static field for stun, water field, etc) But Meteor Shower is a great burst DPS. Its hard to use correctly, but when you get it right, its devastating. The best is on choke point like at a gate, when the ele can start to cast it just before the zerg come in so they don’t really have any time to react. Even when it don’t hit that much, Meteor shower is great to force a ennemy zerg to spread. When the ennemy commander call that a meteor shower is on them, usually a couple of his follower spread not in the same direction as the commander, these player are easier to target after. Like i said earlier, its also great to cast on yourself while using your our zerg as bait to lure the ennemy directly in the AoE. Especially good against enemy zerg with a bigger melee train.

choke points where you put 234897 necro aoe that will last till next matchup…

Necro aoe’s duration is really excessive.

Ele is CC for the Group (you don t do much damage so you ddon t even tag….) paired with 1 DPS aoe every 3 minutes….. (that is the only thing to deal dps)

Its frustrating.

Not to mention how its the most lag affected profession due to attunements.

Ele has the highest dps of any class. And the tradeoff is the low defense. Therefor you need a very keen eye and be very conscious. The effot to pull off high damage and defend with dodge and evades is far higher than playing a guardian or warrior (both more or less main).

I maxed my ele as one of the last classes (2nd last, before thief) and I am still learning all the little tricks. If you finally managed a full weapon set with all 4 attunements it opens a vast variety of playing around and it is super fun. Especially if you manage to pull off all those sick high dps tricks with FGS, LH among others.

Proto its arguable that ele has highest dps.

1st )it only happens by a glitch otherwise mesmer tops it.
2nd) only going 100% offensive with equip + traits you achieve said damage, the time you ignore even one your dps falls from below average to worst in game….

And since said damage requires to be babysit in PvE and totally unviable in PvP and WWW i would argue that theorycraft can t be applied…

In the end the best DPS professions ends up being heavies and thieves since their damage is reliable and scales with the build rather than being all or nothing.

P.S. also FGS being nerfed on 15Th april (and i bet even following patch).

FGS is not a glitch, don’t be a tool. even then, staff DPS is higher than mesmer. in fact, mesmers having amazing DPS is only in theory, and in 90% of all boss fights they’re at the bottom of the barrel.

they only get their supposedly incredible DPS when they have all 3 swordsmen up, which is really unlikely in PVE because 1. most bosses die before you get 3 swordsmen or 2. have AOE that instakills the phantasms.

this is not to mention that ele is amazing offensive buffing outside of FGS and there’s little reason for a competitive group to not take one…

edit: only FGS+blink is getting nerfed, and this arguably hits thieves harder than eles. eles will still be top tier in DPS even without FGS, though when the time inevitably comes parties will probably cease to stack eles.

FGS is a glitch…..
One of them has even been fixed in april’s patch thus showing how is a glitch.
Phantasms also are immune to many aoes.

And takes 3 seconds to get 2 swordmen + 1 duelist or 8 to have 3 swordmen.

Ele is not top dps without fgs… as said mesmer tops it.

There is a reason why only organized groups likes eles…because with a slightly less reliable Group (see slightly suboptimal dps or bad guardian) ele becomes suddenly useless (and no…..its not L2p evasions, cond cleanse etc are a finite number).

LordByron.8369:

FGS is a glitch…..
One of them has even been fixed in april’s patch thus showing how is a glitch.
Phantasms also are immune to many aoes.

And takes 3 seconds to get 2 swordmen + 1 duelist or 8 to have 3 swordmen.

Ele is not top dps without fgs… as said mesmer tops it.

There is a reason why only organized groups likes eles…because with a slightly less reliable Group (see slightly suboptimal dps or bad guardian) ele becomes suddenly useless (and no…..its not L2p evasions, cond cleanse etc are a finite number).

1. FGS is not a glitch. FGS is not getting patched. FGS rushing without a wall by using a blink is a glitch and is getting patched.
2. Phanatsms are not immune to most AoEs.
3. Ele has the undisputed highest dps without FGS.
4. A mesmer that is running s/s + s/p is a waste of a party slot. It combines decent single target dps with absolutely no utility.
5. Condi cleanses are irrelevant, why are you getting condis?

FGS blink is a glitch because it stops the animation for a short time after the blink.

and you’re wrong.

1. staff ele is the highest DPS out there. guanglaikangyi’s gw2guru state that staff ele is highest DPS; 3 swordsman 25/30/0/0/15 mesmer comes in a close 2nd.
2. mesmer DPS only peaks after a time (after you get the 3rd swordsman out). by the time this happens, most bosses are dead. is it that hard to understand this concept?
3. give some examples of bosses where swordsmen aren’t hit by AOEs. it isn’t as many as you think.
4. not going to argue that mesmers are better at carrying pugs (especially those lacking reflect + condi cleanse), but you’re wrong if you think that PUGs don’t benefit from an ele.

edit: hah, clumsy pretty much said what I wanted to say

Guanlong:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether

you don t seem to know mesmer so well as you may think…
You might want to look phantasm dps table for iduelist and mesmer traits also

For Aoes….most aoes in fotm and also remember iswordman have an evade after the attack.
Not to mention those 350.000 damage from reflects since we want to talk about situational skills then i could count the highest damage in game

As i said unbalanced traits made the ele on the full offence the best DPS if babysit by the party…
lowest build diversity in game, the time you start tweaking anything dps plummets…
And this is common knowledge….

We need nerf to traits and huge buff to skills to make ele a REAL top dps or simply viable in more than speedruns with your guildies.

@clumsy:
1) FGS is a glitch…removing target doing more damage if you had the target…more obvious than that is impossible.
2)play fractal or look in mesmer section
3) no
4) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_mesmer_skills
5) i shouldn t even discuss this….i could just say:
-attack ratio/evasion+vigor
-cast+aftercast / reaction window
-evading reduce dps (this is why immunity>>>>evasion)
And i ve still to repeat this basic concepts ._.

I did consider signet of the ether with mesmer. the problem is, max DPS is 3 swordsman (or 2 swordsman 1 duelist slightly behind) – the thing is that to get 3 swordsman you’re going to have to wait for the CD to be up, and if you’re bringing s/s s/p you have a lot less utility.

and hell, mesmer is carried even more than ele in terms of buffing. I don’t see them supplying 20+ stacks of might and fury.

ele DPS doesn’t “plummet” if you change traits. the pug-friendly 30/30/10 LH builds are still in the higher tiers of DPS (not to mention doing much more cleave than mesmers)

TBH I always get the feeling that I’m arguing with a very unreadable and incoherent brick wall whenever I respond to your posts, so I’ll just leave this argument here and let yourself stew in the happy delusion of mesmers being the best DPS class in the game and that eles are crap etc…

When my Firegrab starts hitting for 12k+ in sPvP I will agree we have highest damage.

And even if we did, all our weapon sets and abilities are so telegraphed that it really makes us a joke in any sort of skilled fight (i.e. everything we do is so easy to dodge or get out of). That may be fine in PvE, but PvE balance is nonsense as AI will never be as good as a player that actively reacts to you.

Also FGS does not mean DPS build. It’s like balancing the whole class and stating it’s fine because we have this ONE ability that makes up for all its balance faults… IN PVE… That it not ok by any measure…

I don’t think your understanding the argument here LordByron. Nobody is saying that mesmer can’t have high dps. Unfortunately to achieve that high dps, a mesmer has to give up the only useful thing a mesmer can contribute. Once said mesmer gives up his support then he is now useless and still lower dps than a non-fgs elementalist. And I’m not sure if you’re aware of this or not but Anet actually said that fgs rushing against a wall wasn’t a glitch. Also where did you get 350k reflect damage from? And more importantly, assuming 350k is accurate, that large damage spike is only possible on one boss and is very close to the damage dealt by 1 fgs rush.