Guild Wars 2

Right now S/D out classes and out paces Dagger main hand in terms of DPS and we have trouble sticking to target due to the RTL nerf. The main issue issue is auto attack for dagger main hand does not hit hard enough and I believe mobility on the main hand need to be brought up including increasing the Projectile speed of Magnetic Grasp. This is into a new issue but between the months of Nerf DD which was more about x/D more than anything else main hand D has received very little love.

IMO, D/ is fine. S/ is a control weapon while D/ is a pressure weapon and I think that they do the role well. All of the ele autoattacks aren’t that strong and I think the dagger should be no different because the other 2 skills make up for it. Magnetic grasp works fine and the projectile speed is pretty good right now, the leap is kinda trash though, could do with a cripple effect.

I’ve pretty much given up mainhand dagger at this point. Being range locked makes it too easy to be kited, and you can’t fight back against people attacking your from high ground that you can’t get to quickly. It could definitely use some compensation for its huge limitations.

Well dagger does about 40% more damage at least in air …

TheGuy.3568:

Right now S/D out classes and out paces Dagger main hand in terms of DPS

You should cut down on the mushrooms bro.

Fuzzion.2504:

TheGuy.3568:

Right now S/D out classes and out paces Dagger main hand in terms of DPS

You should cut down on the mushrooms bro.

Care to explain or are you just trolling?

Zelyhn.8069:

Well dagger does about 40% more damage at least in air …

About 11% more damage on auto attack if you land every hit.

Once you compare Lightning Strike
and Lightning Touch SD does much more damage in air.

I love to be contradicted
So let’s see:
Dagger’s auto-attack, Lightning Whip: coefficient=0.7 hits=2 totalcast=1.15 so coefficient/s=1.22
Scepter’s rotation:, Arc lightning: coefficient=1.89 (total) totalcast=3.95 so coefficient/s=0.48, add Lightning strike: coefficient=1.2 cooldown=5 so coefficient/s=0.24, total scepter’s rotation: coefficient/s=0.48+0.24=0.72
Comparison: 1.22/0.72=1.69, so I was wrong … dagger does 69% more damage.
If you factor in the Lightning discharge proc that goes down to 58% more damage.
So basically you can miss on third of your hits in dagger and still have more damage.

My D is just fine.

But I wouldn’t say no to a little buffing.

Zelyhn.8069:

I love to be contradicted
So let’s see:
Dagger’s auto-attack, Lightning Whip: coefficient=0.7 hits=2 totalcast=1.15 so coefficient/s=1.22
Scepter’s rotation:, Arc lightning: coefficient=1.89 (total) totalcast=3.95 so coefficient/s=0.48, add Lightning strike: coefficient=1.2 cooldown=5 so coefficient/s=0.24, total scepter’s rotation: coefficient/s=0.48+0.24=0.72
Comparison: 1.22/0.72=1.69, so I was wrong … dagger does 69% more damage.
If you factor in the Lightning discharge proc that goes down to 58% more damage.
So basically you can miss on third of your hits in dagger and still have more damage.

Nice math. I will admit I made a mistake. Lets forget about base damage (bad math on your part if you are going to use it then do it well). You also need to factor in that each one of those 10 hits (scepter) and 2 and auto attacks (dagger) case has the possibility to crit. Also remember scepter hits harder as stages progress. Once your done with all that then we can talk about the math. Practical application of the damage (ie hitting the target range vs semi melee weapon). The question is could you possibly miss one third or your hits with the dagger that you would not have missed with the scepter? Like I said before scepter will out pace dagger in dps I never said it hit harder. Are you literally saying dagger is better than scepter in the main hand for DPS?

Zelyhn.8069:

I love to be contradicted
So let’s see:
Dagger’s auto-attack, Lightning Whip: coefficient=0.7 hits=2 totalcast=1.15 so coefficient/s=1.22
Scepter’s rotation:, Arc lightning: coefficient=1.89 (total) totalcast=3.95 so coefficient/s=0.48, add Lightning strike: coefficient=1.2 cooldown=5 so coefficient/s=0.24, total scepter’s rotation: coefficient/s=0.48+0.24=0.72
Comparison: 1.22/0.72=1.69, so I was wrong … dagger does 69% more damage.
If you factor in the Lightning discharge proc that goes down to 58% more damage.
So basically you can miss on third of your hits in dagger and still have more damage.

I think “range” is another factor in practice.

There is no base damage. Edit: Crit does not matter for this calculation: it is a percentage increase in damage, which is unrelated to the amounts of hits (admittedly you may stack more vulnerability if you have air 25 with scepter: 57% more hits per second) . Scepter’s increasing damage is accounted for in my calculation. So my maths is correct

The percentage of attacks you can afford to miss in order for dagger to provide at least as much dps as scepter is: 1-0.72/1.22=41% (realistic)
So if you spend 59% of your time hitting your target you are dealing as much damage. This is achievable due to the amount of gap closers that dagger has, but using those can lock you out of the air attunement
With perfect electric discharge procs with fresh air(5s ICD intended, 0.7 coefficient = 0.14 c/s): 1-(0.72+0.14)/(1.22+0.14)=37% (pessimistic)
With fresh air, you need to spend 63% of your time hitting your target with dagger for the damage to be equivalent. So this is quite higher, but the air attunement uptime of the dagger is substantially increased with fresh air, so your gap closer (burning fire, magnetic grasp) do not lock you out of your air attunement for too long. With this set up you can spend 3 seconds outside of the air attunement for every 5 seconds in the air attunement (3/(5+3)=37.5%) in order to deal equivalent damage (note: this is ignoring the damage you can do in these 3 seconds, pessimistic).
There will be no clear winner! Anet actually does a nice job at balancing skills, so in the end it all comes down to the situation, and how you are able to respond to it.
Scpeter’s damage is almost ensured (non projectile ranged) and dagger is subject to enemy melee defence (retaliation, auras etc), you get the idea.
As a general rule I would say scepter’s damage is safer, but if you can take advantage of the right opportunities then dagger will be stronger.

S/D has poor sustained damage. It’s all about the burst that can overwhelm most people and blow them up in under two seconds. The range lets you spec more offensively because you don’t have to stay in close to put pressure DPS on a target.

D/D is more suited to a tanky bruiser who can stay in close and apply constant pressure damage with a little bit of burst.

S/ is better to get range on your foe, and to apply dodge pressure (summon a dragons tooth and see who doesn’t dodge it).

D/ however is much better at fighting thieves and other cloakers. Once someone stealths and your using S/, you only have a limited number of skills that will hit Those skills are;fire 2 &3, water 2&3 and earth 3, rest are pretty useless. Earth and Water autos also work, but you have to rotate the camera to weird angles. All of the D/ skills will hit a cloaked thief (as long as you are within range). That applies pressure to they, do they stay and risk getting the crap rolled out of them, or do the leave? If they are ranged however, they will probably use the invis to kite you.