Guild Wars 2

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/210s12/effects_of_ferocity_on_celestial_gear/

With the coming changes to critical damage, celestial will take a huge loss in critical damage. To compensate, all stats on celestial gear will rise 6%. So how will this affect the overall effective power of celestial gear?
Actually, the effective power goes up by 2.82%. Here’s how:
Total points from ascended celestial armor and trinkets:
All stats: 385
Crit damage: 51%
Effective Power: 456.3 = 385 * (1 + 385/2100 * (.5 + .51))
New values (assuming a straight 6% buff)
All stats: 408
Crit damage: 27.2% (408/15 points per crit damage %)
Effective Power: 469.2 = 408 * (1 + 408/2100 * (.5 + .272))
Increase in Effective Power: 1.0282 = 469.2 / 456.3

So despite what you may have heard about celestial getting a nerf, the effective power from the gear itself has gone up.
Note: I left weapons out of the calculations as the stats vary by weapon. Also, please let me know if I made any mathematical errors and I will correct them

Not sure how correct this is have to look over it more.

Assuming the initial numbers are correct, the math seems to be ok. As the Reddit thread says though, wheter it’ll be a damage nerf for the player also depends on stuff like fury and might.

Using those calculations with 916 base power/precision, 10 stacks might (350 power) and fury (420 precision) we get:

All stats: 385

Power: 385+916+350=1651
Precision: 385+916+420=1721
Crit damage: 51%
Effective Power: 3018 = 1651 x (1 + 1721/2100 x (.5 + .51))

All stats: 408

Power: 408+916+350=1674
Precision: 408+916+420=1744
Crit damage: 27.2% (408/15 points per crit damage )
Effective Power: 2747 = 1674 x (1 + 1744/2100 x (.5 + .272))
New Effective Power: 91%= 2747/3018×100

So for the typical boon ele, celestial will get a 9% nerf in effective power. This is in line with the overall damage nerf of 10%. The compensation has to come from the defensive stats and, if future plans are to be believed, the increased effectiveness of condition damage vs. PvE mobs.

Soldier: 865 power

Power: 865+916+350=2131
Precision: 916+420=1336
Crit damage: 0%
Effective Power: 2809 = 2131 * (1 + 1336/2100 x (.5+0))
Difference with new celestial: 97,8%= 2747/2809 x100%

Compared to Soldier’s gear, the loss is roughly 2.2% effective power (note that this damage comparison does not include condition damage).

Their plan is that compensation for the damage loss can come from 2 sigils now. Battle is roughly 5% extra damage give or take so battle+air since it’s proc icd is dropping to every 3 seconds. 50% chance to proc on hit every 3 seconds looks very good.

Losing stacks on weapons is going to kind of suck when you unequip but I honestly never go and get stacks that much anymore or I would get stacks but just keep that weapon on.

Ugh, the loss of crit damage though….

Really wish ascended gear was stat changeable.

Hm? Let’s do the math again. Mind you, effective power, which, to me, is a number based off of power, crit rate, and crit dmg, is inherently specific to the build, as it relies on power, crit rate, and crit dmg as a whole, and it feeds off all three of these numbers.

Let’s assume we are using this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEAQJAoIGAIPAAAWEFeo8AAAsB-zgBBYjBMRtIasVNFRjVbDT5CQFbR1kCQPlRA-e
This isn’t a build that I would specifically use, but it’s similar to what I’ve seen from people that like using a lot of celestial. (Note: Not using crit dmg food since I don’t want to guess what’s going to happen to it.)

We’re using this DPS calculator I’ve built a while ago to calculate. It uses a simple algorithm – based off of the damage algorithm, taken from the wiki, that finds the average damage based on power, crit rate, and crit dmg. http://jsfiddle.net/GNEFd/3/embedded/result/

So now we plug the build stats into the calculator, and we get an average of 3248.1 with fury and 2702.1 without fury. Again, this is a number based off of average damage, taking into account crits and non crits.

Now we’re convert crit dmg on everything to ferocity, then back to crit dmg.. We’re also we’re going to add 6% to celestial gear stats, and round all stats appropriately, so 45.4 stat points is 45 and kitten stat points is 46.

So our daggers go from 42 → 45.
Head piece from 21 → 22.
Chest from 47 → 50.
Legs from 31 → 33.
Boots, gloves, shoulders from 16 → 17.

Let’s assume divinity runes are treated like celestial gear.
So divinity go from 10 → 11.

So our power and precision go up by 21 stats.

Zerker amulet from 9% crit dmg → 85 ferocity.
Rings from 8% crit dmg → 68 ferocity.
Earrings from 7% crit dmg → 60 ferocity.
Back piece from 5% crit dmg → 35 ferocity.

15 ferocity = 1% crit dmg. We always floor crit dmg, just like crit rate. So 20.9% crit dmg is 20% crit dmg. (Do we know if this is accurate or not?)

We have, between weps, runes, armor, and trinkets, 688 ferocity. 688/15 = 45.86. So 45% crit dmg. Instead of 95%. Our power is 1883+21=1904 and precision is 1462+21=1483. So our crit rate is (1483-822)/21 = 31.4, rounded down, 31% crit rate – instead of 30%.

Plug these numbers into our calculator. 2826.4 with fury and 2464.7 without fury.

tl;dr
In closing, this build pre-patch is 14.9% stronger than the post-patch build with fury, and without fury, the pre-patch build is 9.6% stronger than the post-patch build.

If all your gear had crit damage on it you will lose about 30% crit damage in total. RIP

FrownyClown.8402:

If all your gear had crit damage on it you will lose about 30% crit damage in total. RIP

My math shows that this build, wherein most of the gear has crit dmg: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vEAQJAoIGAIPAAAWEFeo8AAAsB-zgBBYjBMRtIasVNFRjVbDT5CQFbR1kCQPlRA-e

Loses 50% crit dmg post-patch. See my previous post in this thread for the maths.

So, basically, celestial is dead?

Pity, I wanted to equip my 2nd ele with celestial, suitable for open world and wvw.
What else to take now? Soldier with some dmg items mixed in?

Encanis.4031:

So, basically, celestial is dead?

Pity, I wanted to equip my 2nd ele with celestial, suitable for open world and wvw.
What else to take now? Soldier with some dmg items mixed in?

It could possibly mean every good ele build is dead. that crit damage was necessary for us to be able to take down warriors and necros. I’m not liking this ferocity idea.

FrownyClown.8402:

Encanis.4031:

So, basically, celestial is dead?

Pity, I wanted to equip my 2nd ele with celestial, suitable for open world and wvw.
What else to take now? Soldier with some dmg items mixed in?

It could possibly mean every good ele build is dead. that crit damage was necessary for us to be able to take down warriors and necros. I’m not liking this ferocity idea.

mmmm sounds horrible if it is 30-50% crit damage specially towards burst specs.

.. and I had hopes that celestial won’t change that much.. sigh.. Good thing is I did not craft full celestial yet.. :/

I’m going to kill myself. Make me dead. Kill me pls.

About math and celestial. Currently it gives 469 points to all stats and have 61% crit dmg (if we talk about ascened) after patch it is gonna be 497 points to all stats and 33% crit dmg (28% crit dmg loss and +28 points to all stats). As for zerker it is now 71% and after 50%. 21% crit dmg loss. To cover celestial loss it should be (by math side) +450 to one attribute, splitting between 7 it should be +64 to all attributes – 64 ferocity. So suming up (and again splitting between 7 ;p) it should be +55 to all attributes which is around 11,7%. Basically we are losing 5,7% of sats. Of course for majority crit dmg is more valuable then +11,7% to all stats not to mention 6%. As for zerk they are loosing around 12,2% of stats. Values taken from here: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ .

My ele only has 2 pieces of celestial which is helm and shoulders for ascended. It does suck for the people that crafted it that value the crit damage the most.

Everyone is getting a damage hit but I do feel for those people that went heavy celestial for the crit damage.

Thanks timebomb and rudy for the maths.

oZii.2864:

Losing stacks on weapons is going to kind of suck when you unequip but I honestly never go and get stacks that much anymore or I would get stacks but just keep that weapon on.

wait, thats actually happening?

jonwar.4186:

oZii.2864:

Losing stacks on weapons is going to kind of suck when you unequip but I honestly never go and get stacks that much anymore or I would get stacks but just keep that weapon on.

wait, thats actually happening?

On-Kill sigils (those sigils which trigger when you kill something) have received an update as well. The functionality of each sigil has changed so that killing a player is worth five stacks of a sigil in any game mode, while killing a monster only grants one stack. This type of sigil will have more strict rules applied on them, so that a player will no longer be able to gain 25 stacks and then un-equip the sigil.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/runes-sigils-and-balance-updates/

Well, losing stacks on un-equip sucks for Ele’s since we can’t weapon swap!!!
<gives dirty look at Dev’s>

Encanis.4031:

So, basically, celestial is dead?

Pity, I wanted to equip my 2nd ele with celestial, suitable for open world and wvw.
What else to take now? Soldier with some dmg items mixed in?

No. Celestial loses a bit of raw damage, but its defensive stats and condition damage stats are boosted as well. Effective power doesn’t factor those.

Also, keep in mind that my earlier calculations only show how much normal damage celestial does compared to soldier’s. Celestial also gets a fair bit of extra damage on conditions. Given the ele’s numerous heals, I’d say there’s a good chance you’ll have the same damage as soldier’s, with extra survivability.

With the planned change on PvE mobs armor/health, condition damage will be relatively more powerful too, so that’s another plus for celestial gear.

DeWolfe.2174:

Well, losing stacks on un-equip sucks for Ele’s since we can’t weapon swap!!!
<gives dirty look at Dev’s>

I hadn’t heard about this change. You have a link for it?

i guess you didn’t see the post right above the one you quoted?