Guild Wars 2

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

Kodiak.3281:

Jski.6180:

Something even an d/d ele cant pull off this is why d/d ele is dead in wvw.

D/D is not dead in WvW because it lacked survivability it’s fallen out of the meta because it doesn’t offer anything that the existing combination of classes don’t already provide. There’s no scenario where a Front Line Guardian (either Staff/GS or GS/Hammer) doesn’t already perform better.

The Tempest is no different and people have yet to explain what new thing the Tempest can do that isn’t already sorted by the existing combination of classes/meta.

One could argue this is a bit unfair because we already know that the Tempest doesn’t bring anything new table so the question is more rhetorical to point out the uselessness of the Tempest.

D/D for ele is very dead in wvw. Your way better going staff or scepter/x for ele in wvw.

Gurds lack perma up time of a lot of effects they have some healing but its mostly for them self then other ppl they cant give protection for a full fight often there fields get in the way they have very few good soft cc that are viable. Tempest has peram up times for a lot of effects and there healing is a lot more useful and there simply a lot more of it on the tempest bar. The tempest also has real soft cc from frost aura that is going to hit both the other side melee and back line due to non ranges limitations for the effect. Tempest dose not have a lot of non useful blasting fields such as no light fields that get in the way.

Just having something new for the newness dose not realty make tempest any weaker in the meta or not. Just becuse you can use a long bow dose not make you fit in the meta more it just means you can use a longbow yet your still going to be best in the melee group. Although tempest dose have new effects that work well in the melee tram meta.

Your refusal to concede to the overwhelming arguments against your beloved Tempest is somewhat admirable.

I get it. You probably pre-ordered the expansion. It’s natural to want to defend the value of your purchases. Nobody wants to admit they spent money on something that is going to be in some ways sub par.

However, you should really just throw in the towel at this point, man. Your viewpoints and opinions and ideas lack a lot of WvW experience and are just constantly grasping at these hypothetical Tempest benefits with no big picture context.

This kind of misinformation isn’t helping anyone.

Is the argument that tempest healing numbers that the op posted are wrong? I am not sure saying “it will not work” is really information at all more of a opinion at this point. I have a feeling numbers are less misinformation then opinion on something.

Any way back to the ideal on healing tempest! I find that arcain dose not fit all that well unless your going for the max cdr on overload. Something like earth lets your tempest heals count for more in that it lets your teams hp become 33% more effect to a point maybe more if you can get the frost auras rolling. Arcain a tricky tool i find it better for the dmg ele builds becuse crit so important for arcain that with out it seems like a waist of a line. So good for d/d tempest dmg / balances builds not so good for d/wh or d/f all in healing support or driving build.

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

Kodiak.3281:

Jski.6180:

Something even an d/d ele cant pull off this is why d/d ele is dead in wvw.

D/D is not dead in WvW because it lacked survivability it’s fallen out of the meta because it doesn’t offer anything that the existing combination of classes don’t already provide. There’s no scenario where a Front Line Guardian (either Staff/GS or GS/Hammer) doesn’t already perform better.

The Tempest is no different and people have yet to explain what new thing the Tempest can do that isn’t already sorted by the existing combination of classes/meta.

One could argue this is a bit unfair because we already know that the Tempest doesn’t bring anything new table so the question is more rhetorical to point out the uselessness of the Tempest.

D/D for ele is very dead in wvw. Your way better going staff or scepter/x for ele in wvw.

Gurds lack perma up time of a lot of effects they have some healing but its mostly for them self then other ppl they cant give protection for a full fight often there fields get in the way they have very few good soft cc that are viable. Tempest has peram up times for a lot of effects and there healing is a lot more useful and there simply a lot more of it on the tempest bar. The tempest also has real soft cc from frost aura that is going to hit both the other side melee and back line due to non ranges limitations for the effect. Tempest dose not have a lot of non useful blasting fields such as no light fields that get in the way.

Just having something new for the newness dose not realty make tempest any weaker in the meta or not. Just becuse you can use a long bow dose not make you fit in the meta more it just means you can use a longbow yet your still going to be best in the melee group. Although tempest dose have new effects that work well in the melee tram meta.

Your refusal to concede to the overwhelming arguments against your beloved Tempest is somewhat admirable.

I get it. You probably pre-ordered the expansion. It’s natural to want to defend the value of your purchases. Nobody wants to admit they spent money on something that is going to be in some ways sub par.

However, you should really just throw in the towel at this point, man. Your viewpoints and opinions and ideas lack a lot of WvW experience and are just constantly grasping at these hypothetical Tempest benefits with no big picture context.

This kind of misinformation isn’t helping anyone.

Because if fixed, the tempest provides better mobile area control than staff. It also lacks the number of animations plauging d/d that either root you, or force you out of alignment with the zerg.

Jski.6180:

D/D for ele is very dead in wvw. Your way better going staff or scepter/x for ele in wvw.

Gurds lack perma up time of a lot of effects they have some healing but its mostly for them self then other ppl they cant give protection for a full fight often there fields get in the way they have very few good soft cc that are viable. Tempest has peram up times for a lot of effects and there healing is a lot more useful and there simply a lot more of it on the tempest bar. The tempest also has real soft cc from frost aura that is going to hit both the other side melee and back line due to non ranges limitations for the effect. Tempest dose not have a lot of non useful blasting fields such as no light fields that get in the way.

Just having something new for the newness dose not realty make tempest any weaker in the meta or not. Just becuse you can use a long bow dose not make you fit in the meta more it just means you can use a longbow yet your still going to be best in the melee group. Although tempest dose have new effects that work well in the melee tram meta.

You never see either in WvW because anything not staff has fallen out of the meta. That’s because a Staff Elementalist has damage rivaling a Necromancer bomb, superior control than any other class, the ability to place targeted water fields at range for blasting, and some of the best survivability with triple Cantrip.

Again the problem with your claims is you don’t explain how they are done in their full scenario. See often times in order to get something, you give up something else. For example you keep saying Permanent uptime on protection. My gut tells me that’s cause you’re relying on the Earth line in order to do that via Auras which means you don’t have Arcane which means your healing and boon efficiency just went into the toilet compared to a D/D running Water/Earth/Arcane.

Furthermore your attempt to criticize a Guardian Front Line member shows a real lack of understanding of Guardian mechanics and how they actually work. You seem to be woefully lacking in your knowledge of a Guardian, what they bring to the table, and how they’re actually used. For example fields should never be a concern for a Guardian, but you seem to think this is an issue.

You are almost 100% right! Just because you have something new, it doesn’t mean it’s going to fit into the meta. Just like Guardian Longbow doesn’t really change the fact that Guardians are still preferred in the melee group having access to Tempest doesn’t mean Elementalists are going to be wanted in the melee group. That’s because Tempest doesn’t have anything that works well in the melee train meta nor anything to justify it’s two slots. Adding healing when Healing isn’t needed is unnecessary and adds nothing. The new Revenant Herald specialization does 1000x better at spreading boons to their party and even increases the duration of existing boons with Facet of Nature.

Again: what would front line want with a Tempest that we can’t already get?

I also would say in WvW zerg staff ele is way better.
Also the whole burst heal might not help much.
But tempest is not dead. A few tweaks will give it use. For me als WvW roamer it would be baseline speed. And to make at least the shouts viable make all non healing instant cast. Especially scepter needs to use skills while channeling and overloads requite it too. Needing cantrips again seems to scrap Tempest.

Kodiak.3281:

Jski.6180:

D/D for ele is very dead in wvw. Your way better going staff or scepter/x for ele in wvw.

Gurds lack perma up time of a lot of effects they have some healing but its mostly for them self then other ppl they cant give protection for a full fight often there fields get in the way they have very few good soft cc that are viable. Tempest has peram up times for a lot of effects and there healing is a lot more useful and there simply a lot more of it on the tempest bar. The tempest also has real soft cc from frost aura that is going to hit both the other side melee and back line due to non ranges limitations for the effect. Tempest dose not have a lot of non useful blasting fields such as no light fields that get in the way.

Just having something new for the newness dose not realty make tempest any weaker in the meta or not. Just becuse you can use a long bow dose not make you fit in the meta more it just means you can use a longbow yet your still going to be best in the melee group. Although tempest dose have new effects that work well in the melee tram meta.

You never see either in WvW because anything not staff has fallen out of the meta. That’s because a Staff Elementalist has damage rivaling a Necromancer bomb, superior control than any other class, the ability to place targeted water fields at range for blasting, and some of the best survivability with triple Cantrip.

Again the problem with your claims is you don’t explain how they are done in their full scenario. See often times in order to get something, you give up something else. For example you keep saying Permanent uptime on protection. My gut tells me that’s cause you’re relying on the Earth line in order to do that via Auras which means you don’t have Arcane which means your healing and boon efficiency just went into the toilet compared to a D/D running Water/Earth/Arcane.

Furthermore your attempt to criticize a Guardian Front Line member shows a real lack of understanding of Guardian mechanics and how they actually work. You seem to be woefully lacking in your knowledge of a Guardian, what they bring to the table, and how they’re actually used. For example fields should never be a concern for a Guardian, but you seem to think this is an issue.

You are almost 100% right! Just because you have something new, it doesn’t mean it’s going to fit into the meta. Just like Guardian Longbow doesn’t really change the fact that Guardians are still preferred in the melee group having access to Tempest doesn’t mean Elementalists are going to be wanted in the melee group. That’s because Tempest doesn’t have anything that works well in the melee train meta nor anything to justify it’s two slots. Adding healing when Healing isn’t needed is unnecessary and adds nothing. The new Revenant Herald specialization does 1000x better at spreading boons to their party and even increases the duration of existing boons with Facet of Nature.

Again: what would front line want with a Tempest that we can’t already get?

Well why would it work for other elite spec in the GWEN set up? Do you think necro are going to start running as reapers in wvw and give up there range bombs? From your point of view nothing will ever changes in wvw the way classes play now will be how they play forever. And even if there is a changes its more of a question of comply removing one game type for another and only playing the “best” set up for that class.

Staff ele has not fallen out of the meta but d/d ele has and there still that d/d or melee mages nich to fill this is where d/d or d/f d/wh tempest comes into play.

That and your Revenant Herald with its peram protection or its +50% out going boons brakes the game in many places its going to get a nerf.

Actually that isn’t true. I can’t speak on Reaper, as I haven’t looked into them, but other specializations bringing aspects to raids that we currently don’t have or fill existing roles is entirely a possibility.

For example look at Revenant with Herald. Herald is a strong add because not only does it bring a copious amount of Boons (perma Fury for example) but it also brings a very unique aspect of +50% boon duration for all allies. That means all Guardians/Warriors in a group who cast boons, such as Stability, it lasts 50% longer which makes them go a little bit further. That’s a unique aspect that enhances the existing meta.

So things can change, but only when they have something to offer. Tempest has nothing to offer. Everything it can offer other existing solutions can offer today. It’s entirely possible to make a healer Elementalist in the current setup. It’s entirely possible to cover enough Protection for engagements in the current setup. Everything you’re suggesting the Tempest will bring to the table could already be brought in WvW groups but it’s not because it’s redundant with the way things are already done.

Kodiak.3281:

Actually that isn’t true. I can’t speak on Reaper, as I haven’t looked into them, but other specializations bringing aspects to raids that we currently don’t have or fill existing roles is entirely a possibility.

For example look at Revenant with Herald. Herald is a strong add because not only does it bring a copious amount of Boons (perma Fury for example) but it also brings a very unique aspect of +50% boon duration for all allies. That means all Guardians/Warriors in a group who cast boons, such as Stability, it lasts 50% longer which makes them go a little bit further. That’s a unique aspect that enhances the existing meta.

So things can change, but only when they have something to offer. Tempest has nothing to offer. Everything it can offer other existing solutions can offer today. It’s entirely possible to make a healer Elementalist in the current setup. It’s entirely possible to cover enough Protection for engagements in the current setup. Everything you’re suggesting the Tempest will bring to the table could already be brought in WvW groups but it’s not because it’s redundant with the way things are already done.

Out going boons lasting longer not unique mez can do that as is the thing is giving +50% to every one IS game braking for a lot of boon effects. Your looking at perma quickness and resistances. Tempest has healing and aura support that ele simply cant match.
The thing about ele is there nothing in the game that ele cant do say for a few class only effects and stealth. There not realty much in the game to do you have ranges or melee dps you have control and you have boon support that it. Tempest being able to heal as well as it dose may lead to a new game type as a healing support but you seem to not think it will be a thing but that IS the only thing that classes can grow into to be a new type of game play.
Boon duration boon support nothing that new ranged dps to classes who where mostly melee is nothing new melee dps to classes who where mostly ranged dps is nothing new trap cc for classes who have cc is nothing new what is there realty NEW being added that has not been done before? What else in a game like GW2 could you add that would be useful (as in changing how some one plays a class to where the old way is not the best way any longer) and new?
I think healing is the only thing that there is for this and tempest so far (duride may out heal them who knows) is the hands down best healing class in the game.

So far your views on new things is more on the lines of “must be op effect” and that just not sustainable point of view. In no way will a tempest remove all self healing and in no way will it make your team comply unkillable but nothing in the game should do that. Nothing in the game should make you able to live though any thing at all times nothing in the game should let you have perma powerful boon effects (quickness stab and resistances) nothing new added to a class should destroy an old way of playing that class as in replacing or power creep.

Tempest’s healing is marginally better than existing options as people showed above with numbers. Earth/Water/Tempest D/W vs Earth/Water/Arcane D/D is pretty closely matched.

Aura support is mediocre at best. To start Auras last a pathetically small amount of time with no ways to increase them as they aren’t considered Boons. On top of this the sources of Auras are incredibly limited. For example there’s only one Frost Aura on demand with D/W and the other two are only Proc based (low HP, on Crit). The other auras are very situational in it’s usefulness.

Please show me the class that has +50% boon duration for their party. This is different than boon sharing and you might be confused with this. There’s always room for new things, but also different ways for classes to provide the same benefit. For example Front line parties are strangled by needing 2 Guardians for the stability Guardians can bring with Stand Your Ground and Indomitable Courage. If another class was to bring AOE group stability, you could remove a Guardian to potentially fill the same Stability role with other potential benefits of that class as well.

My stance is something has to bring something new and or powerful to the group. A great example was the Druid reveal a bit ago with -33% condition duration for party members. That’s not a new effect, but it’s new that it’s a shared party effect. If I had to choose between a Tempest’s crappy Aura share or a Druid’s -33% condi duration it’s no contest the Druid wins every time.

I respect you’re trying to find a role or niche for the Tempest, but WvW isn’kitten In any competitive environment things are going to be scrutinized and the weak benefits this class brings aren’t going to cut it over the vanilla model. As you say the Elementalist is already considered one of the best classes in existing game modes and likely will remain that way even after HOT but certainly not as a Tempest.

Well it could have been worse, ele elite could have been solely a heal class like Druid.

morrolan.9608:

Well it could have been worse, ele elite could have been solely a heal class like Druid.

How could a class (Ranger) getting a new role they don’t have (Pure Healing support) be worse than a class (Elementalist) getting a role they already have (Aura/Boon support bot)?

To tackle the numbers once again, I stand corrected. In healing number only Tempest in 37s is slightly better than Vanilla D/D Ele – which, again, is a subpar way to play as a healer – but Vanilla D/D ele is still better for two simple reasons

- Condi Removal is greater
- Vanilla D/D ele needs 1s at most in water attunment whereas Tempest needs at least 10s in Water.

Kodiak.3281:

How could a class (Ranger) getting a new role they don’t have (Pure Healing support) be worse than a class (Elementalist) getting a role they already have (Aura/Boon support bot)?

All of numbers in this topic are now meaningless when the Druid was revealed. Druid is a healer the way a healer should be – Ranged with powerful healing options.

Like several other elite specializations, Druid also brought so many new stuff to the class, e.g., pets with something akin to dodge/invul, healing option the ranger surely lacked and combined with the fact that you can weapon swap, you are not trapped in a healer’s role.

I sure wish that we could have gotten an elite specialization that actually brought new stuff to the class, but alas I must contend with the fact that I pre-purchased HoT too soon and will never see those 100 bucks again.

Tempest will just continue to be a pile of useless coding that will be put into the game to remain in oblivion.

A sad fact.

Azel.4786:

Tempest will just continue to be a pile of useless coding that will be put into the game to remain in oblivion.

A sad fact.

I honestly can’t fathom the reasoning behind the Tempest. We’ve all provided lots of strong, well reasoned constructive feedback on why the current Tempest doesn’t work nor provide a new role. All of it has pretty much been categorically and entirely ignored. It’s not that Karl ignores feedback because you can see with the Dragon Hunter and Daredevil he clearly reads feedback and works with it. However in the case of the Tempest there’s been literally none of the response to the feedback given like you see with every other class. Personally I’d love a little post or something just with Karl’s idea of how he thinks this class is going to actually fit in the game and what it might do differently than the base Elementalist can’t already do.

Don’t want to get all tinfoil hat or anything, but the almost blatant avoidance of countless constructive (and lets just conveniently ignore the other giant mound of not so constructive negative feedback posts) makes me really think delivering a dud was intentional due to the Elementalist’s presence in the rest of the existing game (top PvE, WvW and PvP class).

Kodiak.3281:

Tempest’s healing is marginally better than existing options as people showed above with numbers. Earth/Water/Tempest D/W vs Earth/Water/Arcane D/D is pretty closely matched.

Aura support is mediocre at best. To start Auras last a pathetically small amount of time with no ways to increase them as they aren’t considered Boons. On top of this the sources of Auras are incredibly limited. For example there’s only one Frost Aura on demand with D/W and the other two are only Proc based (low HP, on Crit). The other auras are very situational in it’s usefulness.

Please show me the class that has +50% boon duration for their party. This is different than boon sharing and you might be confused with this. There’s always room for new things, but also different ways for classes to provide the same benefit. For example Front line parties are strangled by needing 2 Guardians for the stability Guardians can bring with Stand Your Ground and Indomitable Courage. If another class was to bring AOE group stability, you could remove a Guardian to potentially fill the same Stability role with other potential benefits of that class as well.

My stance is something has to bring something new and or powerful to the group. A great example was the Druid reveal a bit ago with -33% condition duration for party members. That’s not a new effect, but it’s new that it’s a shared party effect. If I had to choose between a Tempest’s crappy Aura share or a Druid’s -33% condi duration it’s no contest the Druid wins every time.

I respect you’re trying to find a role or niche for the Tempest, but WvW isn’kitten In any competitive environment things are going to be scrutinized and the weak benefits this class brings aren’t going to cut it over the vanilla model. As you say the Elementalist is already considered one of the best classes in existing game modes and likely will remain that way even after HOT but certainly not as a Tempest.

Its really not even on the same level when your auras start to heal for as much as 1k you start to see some really good healing over time. How can a d/d ele with at best 4 heals for there group to an d/wh tempest with 14 heals for there pt? I do not wish to be rude but why are you blatantly ignoring a lot of the tools that tempest has?

I have a strong feeling that Druid are going to be an all in glass canon class who lives off there heals.
That the big thing about tempest its a melee class not a ranges class where druid is going to be a ranged healer its not going to be as good as tempest becuse in a weird way you have more control over who you heal as a tempest then you will as a druid.

How? That’s already covered up above and all of that is taken into account in the posts showing a D/D is slightly below a D/W Tempest. Just because you don’t like the numbers doesn’t make them any less relevant or true. In a 37s period a Tempest heals for roughly 20% more than a D/D Elementalist (who, btw, only has to spend a few seconds in water and can continue to contribute the rest of the fight).

Druid start with Medium Armor and Medium Health Pool already. In addition to the staff, they also come with defensive weapons like Greatsword which provides an evade auto attack, a strong mobility leap, a strong block/counter, and a hard stun. So they’re actually not squishy at all.

In fact what you described was the Elementalist who either relies on all their tiny heals and boons in order to survive (cause they add up to impressive survivability) or the active defenses of Cantrips. Something, I might add, you give up with D/W which makes it’s survivability extremely suspect in the first place in any kind of competitive setting. This, again, is because the Auras you generate aren’t competitive with the Cantrip defenses you give up.

The big thing about Tempest? It’s bad. It’s just bad. It’s been said to death literally everywhere else with countless walls of text on Constructive Feedback showing why it’s bad. In order to survive in melee you require certain tools and stats that leave you with zero offense and in order to take the benefits of the Tempest (auras) you’re left with zero defense other than healing (which has never been enough in any competitive game mode).

Facts are facts. Unless you’re willing to prove a different route I think I’m going to go with the facts established in the game.

Kodiak.3281:

How? That’s already covered up above and all of that is taken into account in the posts showing a D/D is slightly below a D/W Tempest. Just because you don’t like the numbers doesn’t make them any less relevant or true. In a 37s period a Tempest heals for roughly 20% more than a D/D Elementalist (who, btw, only has to spend a few seconds in water and can continue to contribute the rest of the fight).

Druid start with Medium Armor and Medium Health Pool already. In addition to the staff, they also come with defensive weapons like Greatsword which provides an evade auto attack, a strong mobility leap, a strong block/counter, and a hard stun. So they’re actually not squishy at all.

In fact what you described was the Elementalist who either relies on all their tiny heals and boons in order to survive (cause they add up to impressive survivability) or the active defenses of Cantrips. Something, I might add, you give up with D/W which makes it’s survivability extremely suspect in the first place in any kind of competitive setting. This, again, is because the Auras you generate aren’t competitive with the Cantrip defenses you give up.

The big thing about Tempest? It’s bad. It’s just bad. It’s been said to death literally everywhere else with countless walls of text on Constructive Feedback showing why it’s bad. In order to survive in melee you require certain tools and stats that leave you with zero offense and in order to take the benefits of the Tempest (auras) you’re left with zero defense other than healing (which has never been enough in any competitive game mode).

Facts are facts. Unless you’re willing to prove a different route I think I’m going to go with the facts established in the game.

As i said before the number are wrong that where presented becuse they left out all the aura heals effect. And when you add though it d/d ele is nothing compared to d/wh d/d and d/f tempest when it comes to healing. Heck you can ever get heals from your utility that even ele cant do.

Jski.6180:

As i said before the number are wrong that where presented becuse they left out all the aura heals effect. And when you add though it d/d ele is nothing compared to d/wh d/d and d/f tempest when it comes to healing. Heck you can ever get heals from your utility that even ele cant do.

I can barely understand half your posts. It is so difficult to read them.

Seriously, please proof read them a bit before posting, it is not that hard and would really help out in getting others to understand you. I am not a native English speaker, but I try to be considerate and proof read my posts.

In any event, you are wrong.

The math did consider the auras providing healing with the GM trait.

The end result of the calculations is indeed that Tempest with Wh can heal a bit more, but removes far less conditions.

Tempest also requires you to sit in water for a considerable length of time (12s) doing nothing but healing – most of it just to be able to use the Overload.

Other specs, however, allow you to just quickly jump in and out of water fast, giving you much better efficiency, not to mention more condi removal. It lacks the burst healing, yes, but Druid is far better at burst healing in any event.

So you can keep blindly defending Tempest all you want – at this point I am not sure if you aren’t just trolling – but all those who are looking at Tempest objectively have already realized that the Tempest is a failure.

It is also no wonder that giving the disregard for player feedback, many of the more avid forum posters and more familiar with the elementalist have simply given up on the elite specialization and are barely posting – if at all.

The sad fact is that all the elementalists have now is a worthless elite specialization that will never see the light of day in the meta, not even to provide an alternate playstyle. And this is what ANET will give us, do not kid yourselves with the illusion that Tempest will be magically fixed before the release, it will not.

We have best pray that the nerfs that have been shown in the balance preview do not come with others, otherwise the days of the elementalist are counted.

Azel.4786:

Jski.6180:

As i said before the number are wrong that where presented becuse they left out all the aura heals effect. And when you add though it d/d ele is nothing compared to d/wh d/d and d/f tempest when it comes to healing. Heck you can ever get heals from your utility that even ele cant do.

I can barely understand half your posts. It is so difficult to read them.

Seriously, please proof read them a bit before posting, it is not that hard and would really help out in getting others to understand you. I am not a native English speaker, but I try to be considerate and proof read my posts.

In any event, you are wrong.

The math did consider the auras providing healing with the GM trait.

The end result of the calculations is indeed that Tempest with Wh can heal a bit more, but removes far less conditions.

Tempest also requires you to sit in water for a considerable length of time (12s) doing nothing but healing – most of it just to be able to use the Overload.

Other specs, however, allow you to just quickly jump in and out of water fast, giving you much better efficiency, not to mention more condi removal. It lacks the burst healing, yes, but Druid is far better at burst healing in any event.

So you can keep blindly defending Tempest all you want – at this point I am not sure if you aren’t just trolling – but all those who are looking at Tempest objectively have already realized that the Tempest is a failure.

It is also no wonder that giving the disregard for player feedback, many of the more avid forum posters and more familiar with the elementalist have simply given up on the elite specialization and are barely posting – if at all.

The sad fact is that all the elementalists have now is a worthless elite specialization that will never see the light of day in the meta, not even to provide an alternate playstyle. And this is what ANET will give us, do not kid yourselves with the illusion that Tempest will be magically fixed before the release, it will not.

We have best pray that the nerfs that have been shown in the balance preview do not come with others, otherwise the days of the elementalist are counted.

That the thing your ausming tempest is using all of its heal all the time so popping water overlode the sec they can when your even saying not using water overloade is “better” over time as seen by d/d ele. So that means water is more of the burst heal that you use when you need to and not just spam. In effect tempest heals in water like ele d/d but with the chose of a big burst heal as needed on-top of being able to heal in all atuments as needed too. So your tempest water arcain ele (i still like earth but this is about maximum healing potential) your going to have tempest able to swap back into water ever 8.7 sec and keep the soothing mist flowing most of the time only when they need to push healing hard is when you see the drop off becuse your giving up potential healing over time for healing right now.
What i am saying is your trying to standardize something and force a skill path for your math that is very unrealistic to real game play.
So where ele only is doing real healing in water tempest is doing the same healing with the chose of the burst heal for when its needed and being able to heal in non water atuments.

So… water is the same as d/d ele but with one more heal effect in about the same time with the chose of having a major burst heal / added aura heal but with lost of healing over time or simply when its not needed any more (healing ppl who are at full hp is nice but over all useless.) The burst healing being about 6k ish hp on a 20-14 sec cd and a 4 sec cast time. In earth you have one heal effect of aura another added 1k. In fire you get another aura heal of 1k. In air you get another aura heal from overlode of 1k on-top of the 1k 25 sec aura heal that main hand dagger gets. But in all atuments you get about 4 shout heals the heals skill 2 aura shouts and the eliet shout that still heals even if its not “death dmg” all be it for less.

Ideally you will swap into water for the base healing stander and swap into another atument and overloade in that then back to water for the max healing out put but often the dmg your taking is not consist over time and its better to wait vs just simply faces rolling game play we see with d/d ele even staff eles.

A build kind of like this i am thinking.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJBIhdSfJ0fJ25AYhJwhJWKBM3zabduScBqABgiUwBcEA-TlhZABHu/QLKBFRPgZqu8jaEAo8jUAMJzC-w

Added note your cd are off if your going tempest water arcain your cd on overloade is 17 sec your also can get cdr on water dropping though down and your shout cd are out dated.

Arguing about alleged tempest efficiency is not even funny at this point. It’s tragic.

Glad to see this thread has garnered some conversation

I cannot speak to the usefulness of Tempest healing in WVW, but in its unbuffed state in PvP on BWE2 I actually put it to fantastic use in a shout focused build with Soldier runes, Earth/Water/Tempest for protection on auras and increased healing potential. It worked wonders in Stronghold in particular. Each shout providing aoe Protection, Healing, and condition cleanse is quite powerful even disregarding the moderately ok effects of the auras.

I found good use with both Staff and Dagger/Warhorn with the above set up, it was very easy to keep allies alive while being annoying with the control oriented shouts. My very bursty glass thief buddy could be healed from near death to full with little effort, and now with the new improvements and Rebound, I could see a PVP combination of a squishy Berserker stat thief/ele/warrior/necro being supported by a Tempest being a decent combination.

I’m going to do a VERY detailed testing and comparison of the healing potential of Tempest, Druid, Herald, and Guardian in the BWE3.