Guild Wars 2

Seriously ArenaNet??? My #2 does 50 – 200 dmg. I am a full defense / condition build with 18k life in sPvP. I get a mesmer downed and he summons an illusionary rogue which then hits me for 5.5k a hit? Seriously??? Why is another cloth wearing caster can build for massive damage and still has more survivability? I really hope you are re-working the Elementalist, as I do not want to play another class. It was the first class you revealed and seems to be the one you spent the least time on.

Until some balancing is done, I will be forced to try an alt. Ugh

If elementalist had a #5 skill in downed which just killed you instantly, I think a lot of people would press it often, that’s how bad ele downed state is.

Which is just ridiculous.

illusionary rogue is the Mesmer number 3 skill. Even if the number 2 doesn’t bug out and gets him to safety from your stomp you can probably still stomp him before he gets it out.

usually his other clones are still alive hitting u as well, plus he summons a freaking downed clone too…

Don’t forget that the mesmer #1 downed skill also stacks confusion, so have fun trying to finish with anything besides stomp….. wait, which mesmer do I stomp?

the illusions on down is rough.

guys how do you counter this and other mesmer illusions. they make me target crazy… once things are hectic i can not tell what is happening.

sort of off topic but conditions really should not concern an ele.

I wish that the npc mesmer training target used illusions.

The real mesmer has a pretty distinct arrow above his head… otherwise yes, everyone knows our downstates pretty bad.

There is an arrow over their head? wow… i guess i need a bigger monitor….

The funniest part of the mesmer downed state is when your own teammates try to heal the clone instead of you (the clone has a white revive mark above his head, while the real mesmer has a blue one, for people who don’t know), and I have to tell them they’re healing the wrong person in chat.

But yeah, for people trying to stomp a mesmer, here’s how the 2 ability works: you teleport in a random direction and summon a clone. The clone will always be the first thing to appear, followed one second later by the real mesmer. The real mesmer also has a large red arrow above his head. The clone and mesmer will also stack confusion on their targets, so go straight for the stomp rather than attacking them.
If you are in the middle of a stomp when the mesmer disappears, do not cancel your stomp as there is a chance that the mesmer didn’t teleport far away enough and your stomp will still hit him.

edit: and yes please buff the elementalist downed state, seriously.

As a mesmer player I’ll tell you mesmer downed state isn’t as great as you make it to be. It’s not bad either though.

The phantasm you are talking about (high damage one) is almost never cast by a downed mesmer. Why is this? Because of a cooldown. When a mesmer is downed, he needs to wait for a long time (20s) to cast that skill. Because of this, 99% of downed mesmers never have the chance to actually cast it. If within 20sec you can’t kill him off, you can at least go out of range so he can’t cast it (and keep shooting at whoever is near downed mesmer because someone obviously is).

As for the clone skill, others have said it already. This confuses new players, but not experienced ones. A huge red arrow is only above the real mesmer. As a mesmer player I never have a problem with this. As I’m about to Finish Off the mesmer I already look around for real mesmer because I expect him to use this skill. The skill is only mildly annoying in that you need to stop and walk and repeat Finish Off… but this is in no way different from some other downed skills, such as necro one that inflicts fear.

Wow, your mesmer’s downed Phantasm skill starts on a cooldown of 20 seconds, while mine starts on a cooldown of only 7! You must be so unlucky!

Dude, why bother lying?

That arrow thing is likely a glitch, this means it will be fixed at some point to make the mesmer illusion more complete. My solution is to apply a stack of bleeding to the mesmer before they create their illusion. That way, when we have two downed mesmers, I just look for the one that’s bleeding. It’s a similar process to fighting an alive mesmer, look for the one with sigils, boons, or conditions….That’s the real one. It’s really idiot-proof, the only problem comes with extended cripples as an elementalist doesn’t have the luxury of switching to a ranged weapon to deal with 20+ second cripples.

Also, I agree. ArenaNet has already said they’re working on ele downed skills (and dagger mainhand skills), but until then, how about letting us die immediately upon getting downed? The time wasted on our kitten is actually counterproductive because we never accomplish anything…I’d rather be working on that respawn timer than trying to rally.

There’s a big red arrow over both the mesmer and the clone when they port…..

Always kill the second spawned arrow.

But yes I fully agree the mesmer downed state is a joke, at least dps wise, like I’ve said on many threads.

Ele downed state is actually very powerful when it is downed player vs downed player!

Avatara.1042:

Wow, your mesmer’s downed Phantasm skill starts on a cooldown of 20 seconds, while mine starts on a cooldown of only 7! You must be so unlucky!

Dude, why bother lying?

Look, I’m not a psychiatrist, if you have mental issues go elsewhere. I wrote how mesmer downed state works. And that’s exactly how it works. When you’re downed, you can’t just instantly cast a phantasm, but have to wait 20 seconds. Competing whose 20-sec skill is better is just pointless because it’s irrelevant 99% of the time. Ele skill enables one to move for 5sec while mesmer skill causes damage but only if an enemy is in range. If you’re on the ground for 20sec it just deepnds on circumstances whose downed skill is more useful. 5sec movement might be just enough to get out of AoE showering on you and into safe (keep defense for instance).

Mesmer downed state is good and probably in the right place. The #2 (clone/teleport) can buy time and if missed for a while you get to pump out a nice juicy rogue phantasm, if you have an enemy to target. Its a cool little metagame, though it often doesnt work out, since most people know better than to fall for it by now. The best outcome is if the #2 lands you somewhere slightly more in friendly terriroty, that you can get rez.

Elementalist #2 is very situational, it will buy you some time if the person isnt in melee (stomp) range, which just means someone else will stomp usually. But its a nice piece of cc you can throw into the battle before you croak. The #3 can be very handy however, if you need to move out of aoes etc to where a friendly can revive.

I would rate mesmers as better for saving oneself past the first crucial seconds, but if an elementalist makes it to #3 he can really up his survival chances.

Ele #3 puts in a lower downed state like we revived and were downed again thus killing us faster.

I have both at 80. The mesmer is certainly better for messing with people after you’ve already lost. If you live long enough to use ele 3, you might actually make it into a keep and rally.

In general, I’ll rally a ton more on ele vs any other class from all the aoe burning. You can easily die and rally 5+ times in a row.

Ianervan.3415:

Avatara.1042:

Wow, your mesmer’s downed Phantasm skill starts on a cooldown of 20 seconds, while mine starts on a cooldown of only 7! You must be so unlucky!

Dude, why bother lying?

Look, I’m not a psychiatrist, if you have mental issues go elsewhere. I wrote how mesmer downed state works. And that’s exactly how it works. When you’re downed, you can’t just instantly cast a phantasm, but have to wait 20 seconds. Competing whose 20-sec skill is better is just pointless because it’s irrelevant 99% of the time. Ele skill enables one to move for 5sec while mesmer skill causes damage but only if an enemy is in range. If you’re on the ground for 20sec it just deepnds on circumstances whose downed skill is more useful. 5sec movement might be just enough to get out of AoE showering on you and into safe (keep defense for instance).

That is a complete and utter lie, and one that is very easily proven wrong. The Phantasmal Rogue starts on a SEVEN second cooldown, as soon as you are downed. Either you are a flat out liar, or completely ignorant. I am in the mists right now, fighting on my mesmer. Elementalist Vapour Form also starts on a seven second cooldown.

20 seconds is the listed cooldown on the skill, which means after you use the Rogue, it goes on a 20 second cooldown, NOT that it starts on one. I am wondering if your inability to notice this, even when told you are wrong, is somehow indicative of how godmode and easy the mesmer is.

Levetty.1279:

illusionary rogue is the Mesmer number 3 skill. Even if the number 2 doesn’t bug out and gets him to safety from your stomp you can probably still stomp him before he gets it out.

This, I rarely see IRogues come out, but it also means that the Mesmer cannot be ignored for long while he’s downed while the Ele can be ignored completely. IRogue is stupid. The blind is one thing, but the 4-6k crits are just ridiculous from a downed state.

Kilger.5490:

Elementalist #2 is very situational, it will buy you some time if the person isnt in melee (stomp) range, which just means someone else will stomp usually. But its a nice piece of cc you can throw into the battle before you croak. The #3 can be very handy however, if you need to move out of aoes etc to where a friendly can revive.

I would rate mesmers as better for saving oneself past the first crucial seconds, but if an elementalist makes it to #3 he can really up his survival chances.

Except there is a gap between getting downed and actually being able to use your downed skills. The time is more than enough for anybody to get to you before you start rooting them(unless they are crippled or lost). Oh, and you have to keep charging it until it’s over/smb stops u. Even if that means dying to loss of blood. You sound like you’ve never been stalked while in 3…people just strode next to you and since it downs you again(aka, less hp for you), they just finish you when you come out of it.

The Elementalist downed number 2 skill is awesome…for killing random critters. I looove it when it randomly targets that rabbit instead of the warrior.

do u rally if rabbit dies?

But normally there are about three clones that you can’t tell apart, unless you know what a clone does and watch their actions. The mesmer can even switch places with clones in the heat of it. But yeah, their downed state is also insane, not to mention that their clones can linger after they die, where as your spells fade instantly.

Somehow I think that the warriors downed state is way stronger. :P

They can interrupt you, then spring back to full life with all abilities and kick your kitten plus stomping. I even saw a warrior that didn’t keel over after 15 secs and kept on going as if nothing happened.

Mesmers can only fool a person for a moment, then they are dead with no recourse. Its not that great. If left alone for a time the rogue can be dangerous but it will only help the mesmer back up if the opponent is low on health.

Elementalists getting to mist form is almost a resurrection, health is a few seconds from regening to revive.

They are both good, just different. Elementalists seems very powerful to me right now since I’m used to mesmer (die if not immediately) and not having that health restore using #3.

This is all you need to know Kilger…if the mesmer downed state (or most others) were offered to elementalists I would wager >95% of people would take it. If the ele downed state was offered to every other class I would wager <5% would take it.

That’s all you need to know about the ele downed state.

I dont know man, why do you think an extra couple seconds of being downed before you die a great thing?? I’d question your stats but its obvious its made up.

If you get to #3 I have a real shot at revive with elementalist, you dont have that with mesmer, your health is usually just about gone by attrition.

In PvP you are never getting to #3. Never. In WvW, down state is a joke, you can’t knock back or portal…you’re done. Very rarelly can you mistform…but the key here is YOU have no skills ot prolong the down state before the mistform…can’t knockback, can’t stelath, can’t teleport. So yes, if somebody falls asleep for 8 seconds and doesn’t stomp you, you can mistform 10 feet away and hope its enough to get to allies.

or you can be a thief and just teleport that far right away. Then stealth. Or knocokback people. Or be a mesmer with their clones.

Feel free to make a poll with my topic…I can’t believe you’re saying the ele downed state is as good as if not better than mesmers. This topic has reached concensus for the most part in the ele community. It’s really one of those “decided” topics.

If they switched Vapor Form and Grasping Earth’s slots so Vapor Form started fully charged, would that be enough to fix Ele’s downed state?

I AM getting to #3 quite a bit. I dont know why you dont. Sometimes multiple times, ever extending backwards.

Maybe because I choose my battles appropriately. If I cant outright win the enemy will be pressured enough that they will have a serious debate as to whether to risk a stomp and be interrupted or not. You are not the only source of interrupts for stomps, in a good battle many are flying around.

You are focussing on 1-1 aspect maybe. But all these interrupts you speak of wont save you there either, unless you luck out and someone else comes around. I am talking about the whole metagame. You speak of interrupts like the holy grail, they arent. If they have time to stomp you once 99% of the time they have time to stomp you twice.

Kilger.5490:

I AM getting to #3 quite a bit. I dont know why you dont. Sometimes multiple times, ever extending backwards.

Maybe because I choose my battles appropriately. If I cant outright win the enemy will be pressured enough that they will have a serious debate as to whether to risk a stomp and be interrupted or not. You are not the only source of interrupts for stomps, in a good battle many are flying around.

You are focussing on 1-1 aspect maybe. But all these interrupts you speak of wont save you there either, unless you luck out and someone else comes around. I am talking about the whole metagame. You speak of interrupts like the holy grail, they arent. If they have time to stomp you once 99% of the time they have time to stomp you twice.

Where do you play? You get to 3 in sPvP? You must be playing some terrible teams. Because in there you will get stomped asap. Will not make it to 3.

In WvW…you might make it to 3 but either you will get stomped or the AOE will down you in those 8 seconds. Would be much nicer to be able to move to a different location like thiefs can right away. Our of AOE and c;loser to allies if applicable.

Yes, if I had a 2 that worked correctly (rooted players, not a random wolf nearby) and mistform was available right away I’d be ok. I don’t need my downstate to tbe the best or OP’ed…just not completely useless.

If anyone PvP’s here and disagrees, please let me know what you are doing differently.

We are comparing to mesmers, the #2 teleport is unlikely to move you out of AOE range, its not far. Its a gamble, its just as likely to deliver you farther into AOE hell as it is to move you away. Also quite often you get someone reviving your clone which sucks, since they get frustrated often and wont help you again.

So as a mesmer, you cant heal because of constant interruptions, by the time you get to #3 you are dead in a few seconds anyway, so that rogue doesnt last long. Thats where I notice ele shines, and you probably take this for granted, its a whole new lease on your chance to revive. Your health regens to newly downed and you get to choose a new location. If used intelligently it gives you a really good chance to revive.