Guild Wars 2

Could someone please explain to me, why we can bleed, be poisoned AND crippled as a bunch of mist, or a raging tornado made of wind….last time I checked a tornado couldn’t stub it’s toe on a building and limp away.

Well if you spin really fast with 2 daggers, you’re going to reflect all projectiles. But an immaterial tornado? kitten that kitten, shoot it down. Le sigh.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Well if you spin really fast with 2 daggers, you’re going to reflect all projectiles. But an immaterial tornado? kitten that kitten, shoot it down. Le sigh.

Haha yeah, not to mention the Tornado graphic not showing up 75% of the time.

And having double the cooldown

..and rooted :-p U MIST NO MOVEZ!

In the case of the mist, it’s because you already had those conditions on you before you transformed. In the case of the tornado… well, it just sucks.

I only use Tornado for 16+ seconds of Stability, the actual ability is just awful. And as for Mist, what Korath said.

Cantrips should remove alllll the conditions

Good quality balance right there.

Nice strawmen argument daharahj.

a) not all cantrips, just mistform
b) not remove, just make immune to them while active just like the description says.

It does make you immune to them while active, it just doesn’t clear the current conditions on you, like all other abilities like it.

That is still not what invulnerable means. If you die to conditions while “invulnerable” you weren’t really… invulnerable.

Yes, we have established that, it doesn’t change the fact that it is working as intended.

Mist form does make you immune to new conditions while active.

It doesn’t remove previous ones however.

It should make you immune to the ones on you and break stun as the tooltip states.

I don’t know about the stun break, it should be doing that, but it should not clear or negate damage from conditions already on you.

MiniAchilles.4617:

I don’t know about the stun break, it should be doing that, but it should not clear or negate damage from conditions already on you.

It really should considering we have the least amount of HP in the entire game and most conditions out last it anyways.

It really shouldn’t considering every other invulnerable state doesn’t clear or negate the effects of conditions already on you. Working as intended, you can moan all you like, but those are the facts.

MiniAchilles.4617:

It really shouldn’t considering every other invulnerable state doesn’t clear or negate the effects of conditions already on you. Working as intended, you can moan all you like, but those are the facts.

You can argue till you are blue in the face but to me and a lot of other people it really should.

With our low HP pool and the ridiculous amount of conditions that can be ticking on us (just from a necro alone) we need a temporary immunity.

But as it stands because of the stun break not working alone NO it is NOT working as intended.

It’s really not an argument, you don’t have a leg to stand on. There are plenty of fixes needed for Ele, but this is not one of them.

And clearly I was not talking about the stun breaker, once again, we have established that is one of the fixes needed.

Once again, it is a matter of opinion, you can reply back 1000000 times and it wont change my mind that this is needed for ele badly.

With our low HP pool, long setup chains in order to burst and bugged abilities I would say this is a must.

Once again? You never once stated it as opinion, you said “As the tooltip states” implying it’s a bug. It’s NOT a bug.

As for your opinion, you can argue that all you like.

MiniAchilles.4617:

Once again? You never once stated it as opinion, you said “As the tooltip states” implying it’s a bug. It’s NOT a bug.

As for your opinion, you can argue that all you like.

Facepalm I was talking about the stun break for the tooltip…

Even still, you never stated it as opinion and it doesn’t change the fact it’s not a bug.

MiniAchilles.4617:

Even still, you never stated it as opinion and it doesn’t change the fact it’s not a bug.

sigh you are arguing just to argue at this point…I never said it was bugged I was referring to the break stun part that is bugged (which it is)

I am saying it is NEEDED for it to make us immune to conditions while in mist form, that is my opinion and nothing you say will change that.

I still haven’t been able to reproduce complaints that Mist Form etc. don’t break stuns. They don’t break immobilize, that’s a condition and can be removed by condition removes. I’ve always had it break stun, though.

I think this is just people not understanding GW2’s terminology.

As for Mist Form etc. removing conditions, you can trait to make that happen. Eles also have some of the strongest condi-removals (on short cooldowns) in the game if specced for it. I have some ele complaints, but those aren’t it.

Rainshine.5493:

I still haven’t been able to reproduce complaints that Mist Form etc. don’t break stuns. They don’t break immobilize, that’s a condition and can be removed by condition removes. I’ve always had it break stun, though.

I think this is just people not understanding GW2’s terminology.

No, I understand it just fine and in fact have gone into empty games with a friend to test it. It never broke stuns for me, and yes STUNS not immobilize.

Speaking of which how much sense does it make that you can immobilize a bunch of gas?

Chris.7653:

MiniAchilles.4617:

Even still, you never stated it as opinion and it doesn’t change the fact it’s not a bug.

sigh you are arguing just to argue at this point…I never said it was bugged I was referring to the break stun part that is bugged (which it is)

I am saying it is NEEDED for it to make us immune to conditions while in mist form, that is my opinion and nothing you say will change that.

I’m really not, it’s a pretty big difference, if it’s an opinion you are welcome to it, if you’re claiming it’s a bug then you’re wrong. Since you’ve clarified though, we’ll move on.

It really doesn’t NEED to make us immune to condition damage considering Ele has some of the strongest condition removals in the game, seriously Ele has some pretty big problems, this just isn’t one of them.

Yeah, but could you even agree it should DULL the condition damage some? I mean there are certain skills you HAVE to have on your bar in order to survive as an Ele… we need something.

I know there are other tricks we have to do, but we also have to work 4x harder to get around the same damage as a warrior or other class.

Ele should have to work harder to survive especially in comparison to War. I just don’t think we should have to work as hard as we do now, sacrificing damage for survivability just to scrape by.

I can’t imagine dieing in the 3 seconds you are invulnerable from poison, bleeding, burning or what ever else. I would argue that Invulnerable should prevent you from taking fatal damage, except from fall damage, but I don’t feel it should remove weaken or negate the damage from conditions.

I wish these skill could just postpone the effects, cancel it for the skills duration…would make sense.

Strang.8170:

I wish these skill could just postpone the effects, cancel it for the skills duration…would make sense.

This a I could agree too as well, but dying in mist form is just lame. Same with Tornado.

MiniAchilles.4617:

I only use Tornado for 16+ seconds of Stability

You, sir, are a godsend.

I don’t find the ability awful, but until I read the above sentence I found it mediocre. Now, though, if I ignore the silly tornado animation and just look at the mechanics….

AoE KB
AoE Blind
Whirl Finisher
16 Seconds of Stability

You know…when you read all that in one sitting it doesn’t look half bad as a defensive, GTFO kind of ability.

The problem PinCushion is that, the animation doesn’t always play leaving your guy just invisible guesing where he can hit the enemies and the fact that it’s not meant to run away but when your elite is cut short because people see you and stack bleeds and drop you is a bit dumb.

You are air, you should be able to be slowed (which effects your ability to touch people and knock them around), bled or poisoned.

I think, because he quoted me, he is on about popping Tornado and then cancelling it straight away, or after a knockdown so you have 16+seconds of Stability.

It’s a bit lame that our Elite itself is quite kitten, but you can’t knock that much Stabilty, as far as Elites go it’s pretty good imo.

Chris.7653:

It really should considering we have the least amount of HP in the entire game and most conditions out last it anyways.

just going to fix some things I’m reading here...

#1 We do not have the lowest HP. we share that honor with with guardians and Thieves. We have the lowest HP and Armor. since we are the only light armor profession in that low bracket.

#2 It is also worth pointing out that Guardians, Thieves, and Ele’s are by far the best bunker professions and the most survivable a profession can be, if built that way. It is arguable that Ele’s are the best and I can say after playing a guardian I agree they are better than guardian but I have no first hand experience with thief bunkers.

#3 we have many ways to remove conditions and if your problem is we cant remove conditions I would be glad to show you how you can easily make conditions a non issue on your ele.

#4 our cantrips all serve a niche, and we have one that cures conditions already. If you want condition removal why wouldn’t you use the condition removal cantrip? I mean you might as well add teleport too, if you are adding condition removal.

#5 real world logic has no place in a conversation about Balance. Or else Ride the lightning should transport us where ever we want in this small world instantly, deal a lot more damage and of course have a burning effect. speaking of burning, it should last until the flames are doused or they run out of fuel (aka target dead) and pulling a comet out of orbit to hit your opponent really should have some global repercussions. Not to mention be an instant kill on you both... I mean... come on... a comet!?

Mist form is great as it is. It’s awesome and most ele’s run with either it or cleansing fire because they are so good, sometimes both!

MiniAchilles.4617:

I think, because he quoted me, he is on about popping Tornado and then cancelling it straight away, or after a knockdown so you have 16+seconds of Stability.

It’s a bit lame that our Elite itself is quite kitten, but you can’t knock that much Stabilty, as far as Elites go it’s pretty good imo.

Correct. I can’t imagine letting the thing run the full duration. I can imagine using the AoE KB and AoE Blind in certain spots, and then dropping it for a speedy getaway.

Tornado isn’t as bad as you think it is. 16 seconds of stability is nice.

I use tornado in sPvP since the knockback is vital in team fights since the CC can hit multiple targets at once.

Normally when I use tornado, I don’t cancel the ability right away. It takes approximately 3-4seconds for the first KD proc to hit, so I usually cast it around the corner then I CC all the enemies chasing me as they come around the corner.

Depending on the situation, I would cancel it after proc 1 if I’m the only person around the area, as I tend to challenge myself with 2v1, 3v1, 4v1, and 5v1 battles all the time in sPvP.

In team fight situations, if an enemy is fighting on a ledge that I can’t reach, I pop tornado and knock him off to lower ground then cancel the form followed by killing him. I might leave myself on tornado form longer if i feel as if the extra CC over my DPS is necessary for the battle.

If I’m capping a point and one enemy is going to disrupt my cap, I would prevent said enemy from reaching the capture zone. I would updraft him, magnetic grasp him, shocking aura, earthquake to stall him as much as possible so that he never enters the capture ring. Right after utilizing these skills, I would pop tornado for further CC to push the enemy off the point and then cancel form when I’m done with capping. I would then follow that up by holding cap / killing enemy.

When talking about 2v1, 3v1, 4v1 situations, the stability really comes in handy. Getting cc’d against outnumbered odds usually gets you killed fairly quickly.

Also dont forget to combine the tornado form with other buffs, such as shocking aura, protection from earth attunement, regeneration from water attunement, swiftness, arcane shield, terrain advantage, etc.

TL;DR Tornado form is great for an instant first KD proc if you time it correctly and the 16 seconds of stability is nice. Also knocking people off cliffs to their deaths / bringing enemies on higher ground down to your level when they dont expect it is pretty fun also.

daphoenix.4283:

Tornado isn’t as bad as you think it is. 16 seconds of stability is nice.

I use tornado in sPvP since the knockback is vital in team fights since the CC can hit multiple targets at once.

Normally when I use tornado, I don’t cancel the ability right away. It takes approximately 3-4seconds for the first KD proc to hit, so I usually cast it around the corner then I CC all the enemies chasing me as they come around the corner.

Depending on the situation, I would cancel it after proc 1 if I’m the only person around the area, as I tend to challenge myself with 2v1, 3v1, 4v1, and 5v1 battles all the time in sPvP.

In team fight situations, if an enemy is fighting on a ledge that I can’t reach, I pop tornado and knock him off to lower ground then cancel the form followed by killing him. I might leave myself on tornado form longer if i feel as if the extra CC over my DPS is necessary for the battle.

If I’m capping a point and one enemy is going to disrupt my cap, I would prevent said enemy from reaching the capture zone. I would updraft him, magnetic grasp him, shocking aura, earthquake to stall him as much as possible so that he never enters the capture ring. Right after utilizing these skills, I would pop tornado for further CC to push the enemy off the point and then cancel form when I’m done with capping. I would then follow that up by holding cap / killing enemy.

When talking about 2v1, 3v1, 4v1 situations, the stability really comes in handy. Getting cc’d against outnumbered odds usually gets you killed fairly quickly.

Also dont forget to combine the tornado form with other buffs, such as shocking aura, protection from earth attunement, regeneration from water attunement, swiftness, arcane shield, terrain advantage, etc.

TL;DR Tornado form is great for an instant first KD proc if you time it correctly and the 16 seconds of stability is nice. Also knocking people off cliffs to their deaths / bringing enemies on higher ground down to your level when they dont expect it is pretty fun also.

Yeah, I agree that aspect can be great, but my main thing for making this topic is that if we are being turned into Air or Water Vapor we shouldn’t be bleeding, slowed, or anything else.

Heck even the ability to slow a tornado negates the skill other than the stability.

Tornado really should allow using your utility spells, like mistform does. So you could at least heal yourself in tornado form. Would make it much more usable.

It’s a bit of a shame that your attunement doesn’t effect the Tornado like a bunch of the other skills do. I suppose if you look at it one way, the abilities there are 2 earth (sand & boulders) and 1 air. I suppose if you squint and don’t think about it too much you could consider the sand fire, in which case, just adding a water/healing ability would help as well. If you’re in the middle of a big fight loading it up and sending down some Healing Rain would be a great help.

Posting for ability to quote

ShadowbaneX.6273:

It’s a bit of a shame that your attunement doesn’t effect the Tornado like a bunch of the other skills do. I suppose if you look at it one way, the abilities there are 2 earth (sand & boulders) and 1 air. I suppose if you squint and don’t think about it too much you could consider the sand fire, in which case, just adding a water/healing ability would help as well. If you’re in the middle of a big fight loading it up and sending down some Healing Rain would be a great help.

You are really on to something with tornado man….Having it based off attunment would rock.

Fire (Aoe Damage)

Water (Aoe Healing)

Earth (Knock back – protection)

Air (Aoe Blind – Some damage)

also still not able to be crippled cause that kind of defeats the point lol

yeah, it’s kinda hard to bleed, cripple or blind a tornado, but 16 seconds of being immune to all conditions is a little OP.

Answer me this Tornado defenders:

How effective is stability, when you can’t finish enemies, heal downed teammates, or use any utilities or skills except for a random, relatively lowball damage proc once per second and a half?

The answer is: moot. Who cares if you can move freely with stability for 16 seconds when you are really just a ‘KICK ME’ sign you posted on yourself for all to see.

The knockback is sporadic, not reliable. Most good players just pop their own stability and wail on the helpless slow moving idgit that popped tornado.

So please, do enjoy using tornado in all it’s glory. And I’ll continue to pop earth armor and destroy you in the 6 seconds I have of my own stability. :rolleyes:

Would be nice if mist form gave immunity to current conditions/cc for 3 seconds, but not expecting it.

Tornado on the other hand, it FLAT OUT needs to be BUFFED.

Tornado doesn’t prevent you from fighting/healing. You cast it for the stability buff and MAYBE the AoE KB, and occasionally one of the other AoE effects it brings. Then you drop it and keep your stability buff.

Running around as a tornado is dumb and nobody should do it except for laughs.

Forget about the animation.

It’s a button you press for a Stability buff and AoE KB. That’s all.

PinCushion.7390:

Running around as a tornado is dumb and nobody should do it except for laughs.

Games are srs bsns…

With a bunker build tornado is ~16 seconds of “noone contests this point for now” because of all the knockbacks. Other than that it’s aweful, and without a bunker spec you’ll just die while tornadoed.

How a thief can spin really fast can reflect projectiles but a immaterial tornado gets hit by them I’ll never understand.

shaolinwind.6932:

Answer me this Tornado defenders:

How effective is stability, when you can’t finish enemies, heal downed teammates, or use any utilities or skills except for a random, relatively lowball damage proc once per second and a half?

The answer is: moot. Who cares if you can move freely with stability for 16 seconds when you are really just a ‘KICK ME’ sign you posted on yourself for all to see.

The knockback is sporadic, not reliable. Most good players just pop their own stability and wail on the helpless slow moving idgit that popped tornado.

So please, do enjoy using tornado in all it’s glory. And I’ll continue to pop earth armor and destroy you in the 6 seconds I have of my own stability. :rolleyes:

Would be nice if mist form gave immunity to current conditions/cc for 3 seconds, but not expecting it.

Tornado on the other hand, it FLAT OUT needs to be BUFFED.

You can end Tornado form early and keep the stability boon. It’s still vastly inferior to a ranger’s Rampage as One elite for that use however.

EatThisShoe.5136:

shaolinwind.6932:

Answer me this Tornado defenders:

How effective is stability, when you can’t finish enemies, heal downed teammates, or use any utilities or skills except for a random, relatively lowball damage proc once per second and a half?

The answer is: moot. Who cares if you can move freely with stability for 16 seconds when you are really just a ‘KICK ME’ sign you posted on yourself for all to see.

The knockback is sporadic, not reliable. Most good players just pop their own stability and wail on the helpless slow moving idgit that popped tornado.

So please, do enjoy using tornado in all it’s glory. And I’ll continue to pop earth armor and destroy you in the 6 seconds I have of my own stability. :rolleyes:

Would be nice if mist form gave immunity to current conditions/cc for 3 seconds, but not expecting it.

Tornado on the other hand, it FLAT OUT needs to be BUFFED.

You can end Tornado form early and keep the stability boon. It’s still vastly inferior to a ranger’s Rampage as One elite for that use however.

Not to mention the graphic not showing up a lot….it would be cool if the tornado was more like a spirit weapon maybe but I guess then it would just be summon elemental…

Honestly I loved the idea of different tornados based on your attunement.

At the absolute very least you need to not be SLOWED, poisoned or bled while you are a tornado.

I generally use it to defend a point or to support my team – Cast healing rain then pop tornado and you have AoE healing bolts and AoE Blinds with knock back. It’s not a bad elite if you use it on the right situations but it doesn’t have much versatility and feels more like an utility than an omg elite game changing skill.