My Ele revamp

My Ele revamp

in Elementalist

Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

So a month or so ago I started working on an ele trait revamp of my own, what I think needs to happen for the elementalist to finally have some build diversity. And I finally have it polished enough that I’m willing to show it, any feedback is welcome.

Since the release of GW2 the elementalist has consistently been in at or near the worst state of build diversity of all the games professions, regardless of its place in the meta or the leaderboards. Quickly after launch a single build developed, the water arcane bunker build, and oddly enough, pretty much nothing else. And since that time the elementalist has rarely seen anything but constant buffs, nerfs, and slight variations on that one build. This is due to multiple factors found in both the mechanics and the theme of the elementalist.

Low defensive baseline
This is not inherently a problem, after all with a full range of defensive stat combinations somebody was bound to get a combination of the lowest armor and health. However, this has become more problematic for the elementalist than it would have been for any other class, because the elementalists’ class mechanic has no inherent defense whatsoever. The guardian and thief, the two other classes with the lowest base health, have inherent defense in their class mechanic, as well as higher tiers of armor. Similarly, the other two low armor classes, the necromancer and mesmer, have more health and inherent defense in their class mechanics, clones and deathshroud. These all work to establish a similar defensive baseline between the other seven (soon to be eight) classes that places them in an area where they can be balanced against each other.

Without any inherent defense, the elementalist on the other hand has no choice but to seek out active defense in its traits and skills and supplement them with appropriate stat scaling. But why is that an issue? It isn’t, unless you want any build diversity, and for that to happen there have to be a sufficient amount of choices for the elementalist to defend itself with. But giving those choices causes multiple problems in the elementalists overall build scheme.

  • First problem, the ability to stack active defense. Given a great deal of defensive options, nothing is there to stop the elementalist from ‘overdosing’ on those defensive options. And with the emphasis GW2 puts on active chosen defense over passive innate defense, it becomes an enormous balance issue.
  • Second problem, much of the defense available to the elementalist is inherent, or even locked, in to a certain element or gameplay situation. While offense is only obtained through use of skill combinations which cross elements and take advantage of attunement ‘cycling’ attack patterns. Using most of the elementalists available offense, locks you out of nearly all available defensive responses. So the only choice is to use defense which either benefits from or works regardless of frequent attunement swapping, or to only rely on one element for offense, a playstyle the class mechanic just can’t abide by.

Both of these problems intermingle to create a state where the elementalist is rewarded for building attunement-centric defense over any other option, narrowing build choice down to an incredibly small amount of traits and utilities. Even if better traits were to reward players with more powerful but less attunement-swapping-centric options, those would still come at the cost of all offense, not an option for a class with no innate defense. Look at the current Stone Heart trait as an example. We have a trait which literally makes us completely immune to the games highest power steroid and condition proc, being critical hits, numberwise it is the most powerful defensive trait in the game. And yet hardly anyone uses it, because it is tied to a single attunement, and even a defensive advantage that massive is not worth the offensive disadvantage of staying in one attunement for a significant amount of time.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

My Ele revamp

in Elementalist

Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Attunement system at odds with design principle of thematic diversity
Classes in GW2 are designed to fill a much broader range of archetypes than in its predecessor, or most RPGs for that matter. A Ranger isn’t just a ranger, it’s a Skirmishing Marksman brandishing a longbow and a greatsword with a massive beast at its call , or a Nature magic wielding Beastmaster trailed by spirits and a doting pair of pets, or a Skirmishing Beastmaster flanking enemies from the shadows as its cunning pet leads them through a gauntlet of traps.

The class mechanic of the elementalist on the other hand completely defies this design tenet, there are no such interesting combinations and choices for the elementalist as those demonstrated by the ranger above. No matter how you spec, you still use everything your class brings to bear. If you will excuse the pop culture reference, the elementalist is the Superman of the classes; it may be admirable and even powerful, but it always has everything it needs, whenever it needs it, without any compelling or thematic decisions behind when or how it should use any of what it has.

Other classes have the choice to specialize, the elementalists class mechanic takes that away. We cannot choose to be a geomancer, or an aeromancer, pyromancer, hydromancer, arcanist, or any mix of the above. Our class mechanic only functions taking advantage of attunement swapping traits. And so playing as a jack of all trades but master of none through all four attunements as quickly and often as possible is the only viable build path, and while it is powerful, it isn’t ever going to support much if any build diversity.

Okay, so what can be done about it?

The elementalist needs to reconcile two completely different playstyles within a single mechanic, that of heavy attunement swapping and that of light attunement swapping, and of course the area between. There are of course ways to reconcile this by making heavy changes to the class mechanic, but I personally think it can be done with traits and abilities, and have designed trait trees (under the new specialization system) with exactly that in mind. I also did so with the intention of retaining and encouraging existing trait choices and paths rather than removing them, as well as strengthening the theme of those paths. Changes to utilities were also necessary, however these are largely to remove some of the elementalists stacking defense problems, excepting conjures which now work on an entirely new mechanic which facilitates better build diversity and theme.


I have two documents for the trait changes, one is an overview and the other a functioning demo of the new trait trees (in the form of an excel doc), you can find both documents here.


  • Each trees most influential (grandmaster) traits are separated in to three types: swapping, staying, and stacking.
    • Swap traits reward you with defense in the form of boons for swapping in to and/or out of an element and synergize well with the arcane tree, these exist to continue supporting the swap heavy playstyle.
    • Staying traits give you certain bonuses so long as you are in the element they pertain to, these serve three purposes:
      • To give swap heavy builds windows of power through controlled swapping
      • To give swap light builds a ‘second home’ outside of their primary attunement,
      • To create the option of an ‘attunement rocking’ playstyle, benefitting from swapping between two or more heavily invested elements.
    • Stacking traits, which reward you with continually increasing bonuses for staying in an attunement. These bonuses grow to a cap and can be very powerful, but are also lost when attuning to any other element. They are also made to have clear strengths which can be further improved upon, as well as clear weaknesses, which can be shored up through other trait choices.

Example: An elementalist knows he wants to build fire and air, and is unsure of the third trait path he wants. He can choose Ashes and Embers for disables and might while in fire, and then choose Fresh Air so that his critical hits in Fire will allow him to rock back and forth between the fire and air attunements. Having made this choice, he finishes it off with the Arcane line to further improve his boons and swapping advantages.
Given the same decision of fire and air, that elementalist may also choose to use Pyromancers Mastery, making fire his main attunement through the heavily stacking damage available from this trait. He then takes Airs grandmaster Unstoppable Force for chasing power and the spike damage to finish off opponents. Having a swap light build the arcane tree is less useful, so he chooses water to shore up his defensive weakness to conditions.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

My Ele revamp

in Elementalist

Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638


Each tree has also had an amount of its defensive power moved from its major traits to the minor traits. These minor traits take three forms similar to the major grandmaster traits,

  • The Minor Adepts give a defensive boon upon swapping to the appropriate attunement, benefitting swap heavy playstyles.
  • The Minor Master gives a defensive bonus while in a specific attunement, benefitting swap heavy or light playstyles.
  • The Minor Grandmaster gives a defensive bonus in your current attunement, depending on the attunement you came from. These principally reward controlled attunement swapping, be it for swap-heavy or swap-light builds, in the form of specific answers to attack. These further push the idea of a gradient of builds from swap light to swap heavy, as well as facilitating the idea that there should be windows of offense and defense regardless of where your build falls on that gradient.

Example: We have a fire/water/earth condition elementalist. His investment in fire gives him retaliation when he attunes to fire, and deals damage to enemies who get near him while in fire. His investment in Earth gives him protection upon attuning to earth, and extra toughness while in earth. His investment in water gives him of regeneration when attuning to water, and further regenerating health while in water.

However, because the grandmaster traits work dependently, they can vary greatly depending on how this elementalist intends to swap and stay in attunements.

In the case above, let’s say he makes water his ‘home’ attunement by taking aquamancers mastery. He can now swap to earth from water for extra armor, then back to water for extra health. Or he can swap to fire from his home attunement of water for boons and condition clear, the swap to water to continue fire and waters shared condition clear theme.

Specific Notes on Traits

  • Renewing Stamina – Because of the higher defensive baseline, renewing stamina has been brought in line the same way similar vigor-granting traits were months ago, and no longer gives 100% vigor uptime all on its lonesome. You can still get 100% vigor uptime, it just takes more than this single investment, the air tree, for example, has new sources of vigor.
  • Elemental attunement has been made baseline, sort of. Each Minor Adept trait gives a defensive boon upon attunement. Note, defensive, meaning fire no longer gives might, but instead retaliation, defense through threat. There is a new arcane trait which grants might on attunement to preserve that functionality.
  • Conjurer is now in the water tree, and probably makes absolutely no sense to you. It will make sense once you read the skill changes section, which contains heavy functionality changes for conjures.
  • Any trait which was nothing but a stat conversion sticker (soothing winds, strength of stone) has been merged with some other kind of effect. Either a new one, or one found in another trait.
  • Downed traits have been removed, not saying they are bad for every class, but they are for the elementalist, our key strategy for prolonging or rallying from the downed state is escape, not attack.
  • Falling damage traits have also been removed, and those I will say are bad for every class. Put them in a food or wrench buff, or a mastery track, or anywhere else but in traits and gear.

The elementalist has two skillsets which trump all others because of their ability to be stacked and provide regularly available defense which either works with, or regardless of, attunement swapping; these two skillsets are Arcane skills and Cantrips. Now I don’t want to see these go away and my principle purpose here is to open the elementalist class up to more build diversity, and removing build paths is no way to do that. Nonetheless because of the inherent defense now available based on trait choice, the defensive power of both arcane skills and cantrips should be less reliable, in short, increased cooldowns, they will still be just as powerful (more powerful in some cases) but available less often.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

My Ele revamp

in Elementalist

Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638


In spite of all the above, the elementalist still retains a break between the class theme and its mechanics. If the elementalist builds with a strong theme towards one element, it can seem optimal to never use its class mechanic. And we have seen with such traits as Berserker’s Power that that is not okay, in the case of the elementalist more so than any other class, as its class mechanikittenerally makes up four fifths of its skill bar. This problem can be solved with a revamp to conjures.

  • Conjures will now overwrite an attunement when cast, and remain until the conjure skill is activated again to drop it, or until the elementalist goes down. The conjure may not be dropped while you are attuned to the conjure, and when dropped (for any reason) will place the regained attunement on full CD. There is also now a trait for creating conjured environmental weapons as a support function found in the water tree.

Example: An Elementalist is built fire/earth/water, but is built to have earth as his ‘main’ attunement. He swaps in to water and fire for utility purposes such as healing, control, condition clearing and combo fields, but is largely at home in the earth attunement stacking his Geomancer’s Mastery and shrugging off damage and control. Having very little use for the air attunement, he slots Earth Shield on his utility bar, swaps to the Air attunement, and casts Earth Shield. Doing so replaces his Air Attunement with the Earth Shield as a second earth attunement, which will work with all traits, healing, elite, and utility skills as if it is the earth attunement.

Doing so will allow this elementalist to remain in earth attunement while still using the class mechanic and retaining the innate advantages of his chosen elemental path, but also exposes him to the weaknesses inherent to that path choice. For example, the defense from the minor grandmaster traits will not work swapping between the same element, meaning he will lose out on those defensive advantages if he only rocks between his two earth attunements, and swapping out of earth to regain those defensive buffs will cost him all stacks of his major grandmaster trait Geomancer’s Constance, making when and how you swap into and out of your ‘home’ element a very important build and play choice. Such rules would apply to any combination of base and conjured attunements.

There is a slew of other changes to conjures, some quality of life buffs, some so that they mesh better with the base attunement weapon skills, and some as just plain needed buffs and nerfs.

  • Earth Shield skill five, Fortify now blocks projectiles and enemies from entering its AoE.
    • Earth is meant to be support through defense, and Fortify’s animation always appeared as if you could hide under its earth shield from damage, but you couldn’t, it did nothing for anyone but the elementalist, its functionality now matches its appearance and its theme.
  • Ice Bow skill four, Ice Storms damage is decreased.
  • Ice Bow skill two, Frost volleys damage is increased.
    • Just shifting power around to encourage use of more than one skill from the set, this would however be an overall loss in damage.
  • Ice Bow skill five, can now be stunbroken, and the block of ice can be attacked and destroyed to prevent the stacking chill (similar to Entangles immobilize), and its base recharge has been increased to forty seconds.
    • Meant to retain the power of the skill, but give it some counterplay and a more reasonable uptime for such a strong control skill.
  • Lightning hammer skill one, increased the windup for static swing to 1 second, and thunderclap to 1.5 seconds,
    • Honestly with evade, permacripple, permaweakness, and soon to be permachill auto attacks, I don’t think having a blast finisher on auto is anything to write home about, but it does need to be slowed down some to give it a little more vulnerability to control and enemies some more response time.
  • Lightning hammer skill four, Lightning Storm, can now be cast at 900 range.
    • Just so it synergizes a little better with the ranged weapons.
  • Conjure flame axe is gone, yeah sorry, I’m one of the few who liked it too, but…
  • Fiery Greatsword is no longer an elite skill, but a utility skill, replacing Flame Axe.
    • Honestly it hasn’t been worthy of being an elite for a while, slightly lower the power scaling and it has nothing over a warrior with a greatsword. And under the new conjure system it would be both imbalanced and thematically nonsensical to have two fire conjures but one of each other element. I would imagine more elite conjures would be added with other elementally themed specializations, rather than as part of the base class.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

My Ele revamp

in Elementalist

Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Clones are an inherent defensive mechanic?

If you’ve been playing the game for more than a week you should be able to tell the real mesmer.

A much more accurate summation of their defenisve mechanic would be they’re access to multiple teleports, stealth, sword evades, and distortion, extreme active defense through being able to repositioning. Clones are just shatter fodder.

Other than that you’re ideas make sense, although your idea of reconciling two different playstyles seems to be the direction where the revenant is heading right now.

Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..

My Ele revamp

in Elementalist

Posted by: FrownyClown.8402

FrownyClown.8402

I see what you are saying. Alot of the core concepts of the class is limited to the current attunement you are in. That is probably why glyphs arent used too much (and most of them are bad). Our traitlines seem to support staying in one attunement while our defensive options are from being able to swap attunements.

Anet is faced with 2 choices then. Either improve the defensive mechanic of our traitlines to be worth staying in that attunement or get rid of the idea that traits should be bound to that attunement. I for one prefer the latter option.

diamond skin- cannot be critically hit when under 33% health in all attunements.
pyromancers puisancance(totally butchered that spelling)- gain might whenever you use a skill other than auto attack. Might duration 5s.
fresh air- its actually pretty good as it is.


Bad Elementalist

(edited by FrownyClown.8402)

My Ele revamp

in Elementalist

Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Welp apparently I needed one more post than I thought.


Because of the newly customizable defense available as a baseline in traits, weapon skills need to be more specifically tuned in their own strengths and weaknesses, just as the traits have been. As you can also probably tell, some of the above changes to conjures were also made with this goal in mind. Also threw in some balance and quality of life changes to see if they stick.

  • Focus Fire 4, flamewall, has its recharge reduced to 15 seconds.
  • Focus Fire 5, fire shield, has its recharge reduced to 20 seconds.
  • Dagger Air 4 skill, Ride the Lightning, now has a 25 second RC, unchanged by striking an opponent.
  • Dagger Earth 2, Ring of Earth, now instant cast with a delay on effect.
  • Dagger Water 1, Vapor Blade will now follow any angle of terrain or objects without being destroyed.
  • Dagger Water 5, now heals for (ever so slightly) less
  • Dagger Fire 3, Burning Speed, no longer evades, but instead grants retaliation per enemy hit.
  • Staff Air 4 skill, Windborne speed no longer clears disabling conditions, but instead applies vigor in addition to its swiftness.
  • Staff Earth 1, Stoning decreases the cooldown of eruption and shockwave on hit.
    • There should be no weapon in which the earth attunement cannot regularly apply bleeding stacks.
  • Staff Fire 4, burning retreat no longer evades, but rolls back for further range.
  • Scepter Earth 1 – Stone shards has a significantly lower precast, and an equally increased aftercast.
    • Damage and ability to stack bleed will remain the same, all this does is bring the damage to bear earlier for better PvE functionality.
  • Scepter fire 2 – Dragon’s Tooth is now ground targeted
  • Scepter Water 2 – Shatterstone is now instant cast with a delay on effect.
  • Signet of Tectonomancy, the only change to utilities outside of conjures, cantrips, and arcane skills, it is a new elite to replace Fiery Greatsword… err… Flame Axe? You know what I mean. I themed it towards earth because that is the tree which contains the heaviest signet traits. However it would still be very useful with fires ‘threat generation’ condition/power builds, or useful in any other power and support builds for its active. Its passive is also a little on the weaker side, like most of the Ele signets, both to encourage use of the active and because of Signet Masteries ability to make the passive effects permanent.
    • Signet of Tectonimancy – Passive: Apply 8s bleeding to opponents who strike you, ICD of 2 seconds. Active: Knock down up to 5 enemies in a 600 radius, grant 3 stacks of 3s stability to nearby allies in that same radius.

Sorry, this turned in to a bit of a train wreck on the last post but thank you both for the feedback, not sure if you want to reevaluate now that I have everything up there. And yeah, I know clones are certainly not the mesmers ‘best’ defensive mechanic, but they are that which is most available, being on every weapon and nearly every trait tree, hence my use of ‘inherent’, not ‘best’.

(edited by Conncept.7638)