Guild Wars 2

I am a player that started at game launch but got burnt out pretty quickly because I tried to level up exclusively in WvW which was pretty pitiful exp at first because so much zerg and lack of capping points. Anyways, I have returned with a renewed interest in the game!

To my question… I started a elementalist ankitten ow 42 and absolutely love the D/D play style of the ele. At the same time, I have been doing research and reading into the viability of a D/D elementalist and it seems that almost everything said on this forum about that weapon set is negative these days. This really bothers me because I really want to be competitive in PvP, but according to the masses, D/D ele cannot hold its own against any class? Aka its been hit and hit and hit again with the nerf bat. So, I am at a dilemma. I am thinking about starting over as a thief. Would you guys say that a Thief is more viable in PvP than a D/D Elementalist?

I care less about which one requires more skill as I would be dedicated to the class. Skill would come with practice. I am more curious about the whether the Thief would be more useful and could hold its own over a D/D elementalist. I really really want to stick with the elementalist because I love the play style so much, but if I am just going to get dominated in PvP at 80 because the D/D elementalist is underpowered then I think that may be enough for me to change classes. PvP will not be fun for me if I play a unviable class… or a OP one at that. I like challenges so if it just takes skill to be effective as a D/D elementalist then I am all for that, but if it can’t even be done with skill then please tell me now. I’d rather not waste time on a class that has been nerfed to the ground by Anet.

edit: I mainly want to focus on WvW(small scale skirmishing/roaming) and sPvP

My ele was my first class when the game launched I got him to 50 and stopped leveling him and played mesmer, then I made a thief to 80, after that a warrior. I just recently got my ele to 80 about a week ago.

It sounds like from you post you are talking about WvW. It really depends on what you want to do. I never played ele before these nerfs so I can’t comment on how much things changed. Really only thing that I can even notice before was alot of Ele’s used ether renewal with mist form. That isn’t possible anymore but I never played it pre-nerf so I can’t really comment on it but I can see how it would be really effective.

Honestly though the classes are different I will say that imo from the classes I have at 80 I recognized in seconds that Ele was the hardest to play. If you like active playstyle the thief and ele both are pretty equal they just go about things a differently.

On my thief kitten is more possible and hilarious at times it can be fun so far from what I can tell the Ele is also. I don’t play my thief much anymore but not because its boring just because I am learning ele atm. Really make both or level your ele or start a thief and level that.

There is nothing wrong with having alts unless your really into the whole brand/class loyalty thing.

In WvW in terms of roaming on one of the lower tier servers either is fine. However, in absolute terms for wvw thief is better. Despite all the doom and gloom DD can handle most classes in a duel. The problem is that some classes will simply outrun DD ele if they get chased and since you cant switch to a ranged set on the fly you are simply SoL on catching them. The other thing is some classes are able to chase you down easily. Even before the RtL nerf.

The fact is with a thief neither of these issue are present. Mobility is above every other class and you still get access to your ranged weapon. On top of thakitten is the easiest class to pull an escape off with.

the other pro to thief is that they can burst and still keep traits that will allow them to survive in WvW an feat that can not be achieved by DD ele. If your serous about WvW join a good WvW guild and face no issues what so ever. If you just want to run around solo and feel strong play a thief.

That being said even though i have both these classes geared at 80 and WvW ready I play a warrior almost exclusively in WvW. In the long run you have to make the choice yourself and just play what you like.

D/D ele is perfectly viable, and an ele’s viability relative to a thief’s varies based on what your playstyle is. A thief can totally hold its own against a D/D ele- IMO, D/D, while practically useful, isn’t particularly good theoretically, so I would have to say that a very well-played thief does have a slight edge over a D/D ele, but that’s assuming that the thief has a good build as well.

Really, it depends on which playstyle you prefer. You should definitely stick to ele if you prefer it.

I would just play a Thief if you want to roam around in WvW

Both classes are excellent in small encounters (good damage, high survivability.etc), however the Thief is undeniably better at running away/chasing people. If you just want to roam in WvW and be the best at it, there is no competition. Play a Thief. Not only do you die less, you can chase people down for more bags. (Source: I have both classes at 80)

Of course, the ele is better in zergs, but you will probably have to switch to a staff.

Edit: The large numbers of Thieves in WvW don’t lie. In addition neither class is particularly hard to use, especially the cheese D/P Thief build. In any case you should just pick the one that is more fun.

Thank you guys for responding! I definitely can say I love D/D elementalist playstyle so if it is at least somewhat viable then I will stick with it! I am not opposed to trying thief as well, but I am kind of a casual player so it will take a while for me to level a character. This is why I am trying to make a decision now. You all help me in gaining some confidence back so I will push my elementalist to 80.

I am not necessarily looking at roaming on my own and really REALLY want to find a good WvW guild to run with so this has aided my decision as well. If I am unhappy at 80 once I get geared then I will reassess then and possibly try the Thief. Thank you again to everyone that responded!

Please don’t let the gloom and doom of this forum get you, people like to kitten a lot and overexaggerate, and one of the side-effects of such exaggeration is thakitten misleads newcomers (or returners) such as yourself.

The D/D Ele is a great class in WvW, though I would ask what server/tier you’re on, and whakitten is you intend to do.

The Thief offers a unique style of gameplay. You have the best escape mechanism in the game yet you’re so squishy once someone manages to get a snare on you. It’s skillful, somehow both forgiving yet unforgiving all at the same time (you can always escape, but linger one second too long and you’re eaten alive).

The D/D Ele too is also quite unique, in many ways standing in stark contrast to the Thief’s tactics. The Ele talks a lot, smashes things around them, blows stuff up, and has flashy effects. They can’t be sneaky at all but instead they embrace getting into the midst of things with a combination of mobility moves, gap closers, perma swiftness, and tons of heals.

I would suggest playing both and trying to see which one you like the most. I will say, however, that both are actually quite different (this is actually something I notice a lot – a lot of players assume that a D/D Ele plays a lot like a Thief because it uses Daggers, when in fact it’s very different).

If we’re talking sPvP, where things are a bit more structured and sane, the Ele is generally considered the better class.

In WvW, it depends on your tier and what you want to do.

But don’t let anyone tell you Ele is not viable in the PvP formats. That is very untrue.

Just, it should be noted that we only have one good spec: 0/10/0/30/30 and the variations of that, and you can’t reliably play a glass cannon one and will need to spec for defense. Then again, don’t let that bother you too much. The people down in the Thief forum are perpetually complaining that they lack reliable sustain outside of stealthing, so every class has its downsides. Which, btw, I think was ANet’s intention.

Neko.9021:

Please don’t let the gloom and doom of this forum get you, people like to kitten a lot and overexaggerate, and one of the side-effects of such exaggeration is thakitten misleads newcomers (or returners) such as yourself.

The D/D Ele is a great class in WvW, though I would ask what server/tier you’re on, and whakitten is you intend to do.

The Thief offers a unique style of gameplay. You have the best escape mechanism in the game yet you’re so squishy once someone manages to get a snare on you. It’s skillful, somehow both forgiving yet unforgiving all at the same time (you can always escape, but linger one second too long and you’re eaten alive).

The D/D Ele too is also quite unique, in many ways standing in stark contrast to the Thief’s tactics. The Ele talks a lot, smashes things around them, blows stuff up, and has flashy effects. They can’t be sneaky at all but instead they embrace getting into the midst of things with a combination of mobility moves, gap closers, perma swiftness, and tons of heals.

I would suggest playing both and trying to see which one you like the most. I will say, however, that both are actually quite different (this is actually something I notice a lot – a lot of players assume that a D/D Ele plays a lot like a Thief because it uses Daggers, when in fact it’s very different).

If we’re talking sPvP, where things are a bit more structured and sane, the Ele is generally considered the better class.

In WvW, it depends on your tier and what you want to do.

But don’t let anyone tell you Ele is not viable in the PvP formats. That is very untrue.

Just, it should be noted that we only have one good spec: 0/10/0/30/30 and the variations of that, and you can’t reliably play a glass cannon one and will need to spec for defense. Then again, don’t let that bother you too much. The people down in the Thief forum are perpetually complaining that they lack reliable sustain outside of stealthing, so every class has its downsides. Which, btw, I think was ANet’s intention.

Thanks for your post!

Can you guys clarify what “kitten”, “thakitten”, and “whakitten” is? I am unfamiliar to the lingo here.

To answer the server/tier question, I play on Maguuma server and I have no idea what “tier” that is. I think we are ranked 7th in WvW, but we definitely lack numbers during the week. I think we tend to capitalize at down times, i.e. late at night/early in the morning. There tends to be a lot of zerging during peak hours which is usual for WvW at these times. When I find myself in a zerg I am not opposed to pulling out a staff and raining some fire/throwing heals on people. My favorite play is in small groups in WvW. I similairly like sPvP in thakitten is smaller group fights.

How is the D/D elementalist in tPvP? I may venture into this if I can find a group that I synergize with and after I learn my class fully.

Wolfaen.9461:

Neko.9021:

Please don’t let the gloom and doom of this forum get you, people like to kitten a lot and overexaggerate, and one of the side-effects of such exaggeration is thakitten misleads newcomers (or returners) such as yourself.

The D/D Ele is a great class in WvW, though I would ask what server/tier you’re on, and whakitten is you intend to do.

The Thief offers a unique style of gameplay. You have the best escape mechanism in the game yet you’re so squishy once someone manages to get a snare on you. It’s skillful, somehow both forgiving yet unforgiving all at the same time (you can always escape, but linger one second too long and you’re eaten alive).

The D/D Ele too is also quite unique, in many ways standing in stark contrast to the Thief’s tactics. The Ele talks a lot, smashes things around them, blows stuff up, and has flashy effects. They can’t be sneaky at all but instead they embrace getting into the midst of things with a combination of mobility moves, gap closers, perma swiftness, and tons of heals.

I would suggest playing both and trying to see which one you like the most. I will say, however, that both are actually quite different (this is actually something I notice a lot – a lot of players assume that a D/D Ele plays a lot like a Thief because it uses Daggers, when in fact it’s very different).

If we’re talking sPvP, where things are a bit more structured and sane, the Ele is generally considered the better class.

In WvW, it depends on your tier and what you want to do.

But don’t let anyone tell you Ele is not viable in the PvP formats. That is very untrue.

Just, it should be noted that we only have one good spec: 0/10/0/30/30 and the variations of that, and you can’t reliably play a glass cannon one and will need to spec for defense. Then again, don’t let that bother you too much. The people down in the Thief forum are perpetually complaining that they lack reliable sustain outside of stealthing, so every class has its downsides. Which, btw, I think was ANet’s intention.

Thanks for your post!

Can you guys clarify what “kitten”, “thakitten”, and “whakitten” is? I am unfamiliar to the lingo here.

To answer the server/tier question, I play on Maguuma server and I have no idea what “tier” that is. I think we are ranked 7th in WvW, but we definitely lack numbers during the week. I think we tend to capitalize at down times, i.e. late at night/early in the morning. There tends to be a lot of zerging during peak hours which is usual for WvW at these times. When I find myself in a zerg I am not opposed to pulling out a staff and raining some fire/throwing heals on people. My favorite play is in small groups in WvW. I similairly like sPvP in thakitten is smaller group fights.

How is the D/D elementalist in tPvP? I may venture into this if I can find a group that I synergize with and after I learn my class fully.

The forum censors “bad” words and replaces them with the word “kitten”.

Tiers are the WvWvW match ups, there are 8 tiers(NA at least) with, of course, three servers in each.

The theif is going to be a better for solo/small group roaming in WvW, but the ele brings more to large scale fights where the theif is lacking. From what I hear the ele is also going to be better than the theif in sPvP/tPvP.

I think it comes down to what you intend to do. The ele is not a very good solo-roamer b/c you lack the straight-line speed to reliably get-away or chase, so you have to be very careful how to pick your battles. You have to disengage before a fight even starts to tip against you, which it often will b/c killing anything will take a while.

On the flip side, thief can kill quick, and is more forgiving b/c you have tools to get out of anything. When things get bad, you can just stealth up and bolt. You also do very good single-target damage.

Analysis:

D/D Ele is ideal in a group fight of around 7v7-3v3 because you can spread o.k. damage around to a lot of people while healing and buffing your allies, and controlling the flow of the battle a bit. In larger fights, a D/D ele will melt. In a group of around 6 or so (havoc squads), eles are great for buffing your allies speed while travelling as well.

A thief is ideal in 1v1 (i.e. solo roaming), and can be good up to around 5v5 or 6v6. Larger than that, and your only role is to pick people off who have been weakend. It is also a more-selfish class, as the only support your bring to your team are some blinds and the ability to target high-priority targets.

The ele is a bit more versatile, because as your group gets larger, you can become one of the most-useful team contributors by switching to staff and trying to disrupt your opponents flow in battle with crowd-control, buff your allies with fields and heals, and deal some o.k. aoe damage.

Thus, the ele really shines by being a class that makes others around them better, but doesn’t have any really ideal 1v1 specs. D/D can get by, but doesn’t have enough damage output to kill quickly in WvW (speed is key).

I know it wasn’t mentioned, but if you want to be able to do ANYTHING with your class, try a mesmer. They really do have tons of variety and options due to very powerful class mechanics, awesome traits in every direction, and a wide variety in skills. Mesmer’s are one of the best roaming classes, do well buffing teams in smaller groups, and have some useful utilities in large groups, although they aren’t as useful as ele’s in disorganized zerg v zerg.

BlackBeard.2873:

I know it wasn’t mentioned, but if you want to be able to do ANYTHING with your class, try a mesmer. They really do have tons of variety and options due to very powerful class mechanics, awesome traits in every direction, and a wide variety in skills. Mesmer’s are one of the best roaming classes, do well buffing teams in smaller groups, and have some useful utilities in large groups, although they aren’t as useful as ele’s in disorganized zerg v zerg.

Well the thing with mesmer is in solo roam its Ok but not great. Chasing down the enemy can become an issue with most builds (limited access to swiftness), but if you get really good akitten you can master controlling the battle even if its 1vx. Overall your right but what equates awesomeness is Spvp is marginal at best in WvW. Phantasm will wreck most thieves that aren’t already running but builds like D/P can really hurt shatter if played right. Also in zerg illusions have tendency not to make it to their target due to all the aoe.

What makes mesmer good for Wv3 are a few things. First off it is a hard to pin down class which makes it Ok zerg situations where CC is flying around. Focuses’ into the void is great in siege and one of those must have skills. Portal even though it has been nerfed can be a game changer in organized play. I could go on but really its not a bad class to check out.

Though bang for your buck play a thief.

BlackBeard.2873:

I know it wasn’t mentioned, but if you want to be able to do ANYTHING with your class, try a mesmer. They really do have tons of variety and options due to very powerful class mechanics, awesome traits in every direction, and a wide variety in skills. Mesmer’s are one of the best roaming classes, do well buffing teams in smaller groups, and have some useful utilities in large groups, although they aren’t as useful as ele’s in disorganized zerg v zerg.

Like the guy above me said, mes actually isn’t that great for the OP’s requests, unfortunately, in spite of the mesmer’s pure awesomeness. As a matter of fact, both ele and thief have very broad ranges of skills and/or builds that allow them to be flexible and able to do “anything”. In the ele’s case, there are few very good viable builds, but many/all of them allow for fast healing, buffing allies, bunkering- whatever, making eles very good at swapping roles in battle, but are overall less flexible with all of the roles that they can fulfill. On the other hand, the thief can fulfill almost every single role out there, excluding boon support to allies, although even that could be said to be false (as thieves do have the venom share build, if you call putting venoms on allies as putting boons on them). For example, thieves have access to:

-The best glass cannon builds (not saying that that means that they’re actually good)
-The best bursting builds
-The best scouting builds
-Some of the best condition builds (really, only the necro can surpass the thief in this regard, I think. Maybe engi, but that’s about it)
-The best hit-and-run builds
-Some of the best skirmishing builds (I’d say thakitten ’s right up there with the ele here)
-Some very, very good tanking builds
-By far the best boon stripping builds, if not the only boon stripping builds in the game
-Two unique forms of defense: stealth defense (everything in SA) and evade defense (take a look at Jumper X’s build, for example)
-Some of the best blind/control builds
-The best builds for finishing off weakened enemies
-The best 1v(more than 1) builds (this doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re going to win, but it gives you a higher chance of winning and surviving than most other professions provide. Even guard; they have rather bad damage, and their high armor happens to be just a bit too high in exchange for damage for them to be particularly tough in the long run)
-The best mobility builds
-Whatever I’ve forgotten to add

Which might make you think “great, the thief is so flexible!” The issue, however, is that you can usually only have a very, very small selection of these (1-3 tops) at any given time. For example, venom share builds provide good control and condition opportunities, but that’s about it; they lack the best elements of all of these other types of builds. The point? On the battlefield, the ele can fulfill more rolls than the thief can. However, prior to battles, thieves have a much wider selection of rolls they want to fulfill than the ele has. So, it depends on how you want to play: do you want to play with a predetermined role (thief), or with the role given to you on the battlefield (ele)?

if you want to roam avoid elementalist as its now…..they completely deleted that role for the class.

a thief can solo towers in wvw….
a thief can solo giganticus lupicus…

Never seen an elementalist do that but that doesn’t mean they are any less viable. I can solo three big veteran karkas easy (takes some time) But I prefer using S/D against karkas because the ranged gives me more mobility without having to lose out on doing damage. I can switch between mid-range to close-range while D/D is almost completely stuck in melee range. Which isn’t bad since you get to give the wariors and thieves and guardians that fight with you healing and boons. (or other D/D eles for that matter).

Thief is a highly specialized class while the elementalist is more good all-round.

lupicus Towers and karka have 1 thing in common.

A BAD AI….

A player has not the same issue…it won t maddenly charge at you…..

Most classes are now able to escape at will from eles……..and you don t have anything to compensate for it.

Old ele was really good at tracking fleeing enemies….
RTL nerf simply makes that impossible….

Permaswiftness is not enough…EVERY class can achieve that.
And fiery GS is not a solution….

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

a thief can solo towers in wvw….
a thief can solo giganticus lupicus…

Never seen an elementalist do that but that doesn’t mean they are any less viable. I can solo three big veteran karkas easy (takes some time) But I prefer using S/D against karkas because the ranged gives me more mobility without having to lose out on doing damage. I can switch between mid-range to close-range while D/D is almost completely stuck in melee range. Which isn’t bad since you get to give the wariors and thieves and guardians that fight with you healing and boons. (or other D/D eles for that matter).

Thief is a highly specialized class while the elementalist is more good all-round.

It’s not the issue of being able to solo lupi because it’s been done by at least (confirmed) 3 elementalists but that thief can solo him just by using autoattack and infiltrator’s strike. No other skill is required beside self-heal.

Karka projectiles can be simply strafe’d if you are at about 600 range or interrupted.

Small scale wvw and spvp is ok with D/D. I suggest packing a staff when in WvW though. You’ll need it often.

haviz.1340:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

a thief can solo towers in wvw….
a thief can solo giganticus lupicus…

Never seen an elementalist do that but that doesn’t mean they are any less viable. I can solo three big veteran karkas easy (takes some time) But I prefer using S/D against karkas because the ranged gives me more mobility without having to lose out on doing damage. I can switch between mid-range to close-range while D/D is almost completely stuck in melee range. Which isn’t bad since you get to give the wariors and thieves and guardians that fight with you healing and boons. (or other D/D eles for that matter).

Thief is a highly specialized class while the elementalist is more good all-round.

It’s not the issue of being able to solo lupi because it’s been done by at least (confirmed) 3 elementalists but that thief can solo him just by using autoattack and infiltrator’s strike. No other skill is required beside self-heal.

Karka projectiles can be simply strafe’d if you are at about 600 range or interrupted.

:D is there footage of elementalists beating lupicus? I wanna see!!!

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

:D is there footage of elementalists beating lupicus? I wanna see!!!

I’ve done it in about 15 minutes but only got screenshot from february (don’t worry, it’s legit, at that time you couldn’t even be invited by anyone or invite anyone if you started dungeon solo).
Guy called Pepsi did same feat two weeks ago in about 17 minutes.
And lastly, here’s a clip from Smooth Marc.
Differences in times are results of more or less aggresive approaches.

haviz.1340:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

:D is there footage of elementalists beating lupicus? I wanna see!!!

I’ve done it in about 15 minutes but only got screenshot from february (don’t worry, it’s legit, at that time you couldn’t even be invited by anyone or invite anyone if you started dungeon solo).
Guy called Pepsi did same feat two weeks ago in about 17 minutes.
And lastly, here’s a clip from Smooth Marc.
Differences in times are results of more or less aggresive approaches.

Awesome! Thanks

Thank you guys for all your responses! I think I will stick with my elementalist and probably give a Thief a try after I hit 80. I just love the diversity and uniqueness of the D/D elementalist that I don’t know I would find in any other class.