Need help with D/D PvP

Need help with D/D PvP

in Elementalist

Posted by: Mek.2947

Mek.2947

Hey everyone,

First caveat: All my experience has been based on sPvP
Second caveat: My level of experience with elementalist is up to level 60
Third caveat: Been playing a Mezmer since release.

So I’m re-rolling as an elementalist because it seems like their play style is more fun. I like the concept of constantly “doing” something such as swapping attunements, setting up combos etc. I’ve been playing a Mesmer for a while and I LOVE that class too, but I just wanted to try something different. Plus, I think Elementalists can do well in any situation, whether it’s dungeons, gold farming, WvWvW, etc.

My problem is, I CAN’T SURVIVE ANYTHING!!.

I’ve tried Dark Phoenix’s D/D guide. I’ve tried going 30 earth/30 water with celestial, I’ve tried 30 fire 30 air with berzerkers. I cannot 1v1 anything. If i go more tough/vit then i just can’t do enough damage to kill anyone. The best approach I’ve found so far is just to say eff it; go full damage, and just put a hurting on someone before I’m get my own kitten beat down.

I try using all my cantrips: mist form, the blast that removes 3 conditions, and the earth one that grants stability (sorry can’t remember their names). I’ll switch to water to get two heals. It seems like it doesnt’ matter. If someone is hell bent on me I just delayed getting killed by about 10 seconds with those. I also use the ether heal that removes conditions and heals with each pulse.

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Posted by: Rerroll.9083

Rerroll.9083

To survive you will need 30 in arcana (with evasive arcana, water dodge is really strong).

20 or 30 points in water are also a must. (dont forget the V trait)

The other 10 points should be on air I trait.

Up Rerroll

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Posted by: Gooch.7940

Gooch.7940

I hear you Mek. I have been changing builds constantly and can’t find anything that works. The bunker build, mentioned above, didn’t seem to work for me either. You do very little damage and I guess I died easily cause I didn’t spend all of my time dodging. Regardless, it just didn’t work for me. I had some success in the past using all out damage builds but thieves and rangers completely dominate you. I’ve all but given up. I can’t do enough damage to outlive my opponent, regardless of build.

Signet build….signets don’t seem to work half the time and the passives are not very effective anyway. With no stun breaker you are just held still and die in seconds.

Bunker build…i don’t see where all this healing is supposed to come from….and where the damage is.

dps build….damage is respectable but, for me at least, I still die before my opponent. Thieves insta-kill you. 100b’s kills you if you are stunned and can’t escape. Rangers out cc you, out damage you, out run you and their pets do more damage than most of your spells. Without much cleansing, necros kill you with dots. Mesmers are impossible regardless of build. So that leaves engi’s, guardians, and some warriors that you can kill sometimes.

I’m certainly open to learn what works!

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Posted by: Fishbait.6723

Fishbait.6723

It just takes practice to get used to playing.
Go up against champions/veterans etc of your level. not quite the same as going against players, but you`ll learn when to dodge, when to attunement swap into what is better for the time etc.

When I first got shot of staff (because of how crap it was post nerfs) I tried Sceptre & that really needs fixing, so went D/D & I died a fair few times, but after some (aka a lot ;p) i learnt how to escape things I would never of dreamed of doing so before hand.

Also, grab guildies & enter empty spvp maps (probably be loads of them ) & duel them, should help loads.

“We want you to play the game, not the UI” Arenanet.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Top-right-GO-away/first#post2096524
Rocking Wizard Wars until this mess of a game is fixed…

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Posted by: Shadow Gathering.5649

Shadow Gathering.5649

1) I had this same experience with the ele when I first started. It felt like a glass bb-gun. Frankly the ele is really hard to play. It takes a lot of practice to get good. I have over 2k deaths on my ele Some of us have gotten really good, and it can make the class seem OP, but the truth is that the ele baseline stats are pretty crappy.

2) There are not many viable ele builds out there. That is why so many people went with Daphoenix’s bunker build. They couldn’t kill much, but at least they could escape with this build. With recent nerfs, this build isn’t even that great at escaping/chasing anymore.

3) Survival advice: If you are having trouble with survival, ditch the berzerker armor and celestial gear and focus on toughness instead. Knights are my favorite. My current build has 2500 toughness and 3200 armor (overkill in most situations but great for WvW guild fighting)(its a 0/0/30/10/30). Toughness is much more important than vitality. Toughness makes every hp you have stronger, which greatly increases survivability and the value of your heals. With high toughness, each hp gained through a heal will be a much stronger more valuable hp. Speaking of heals, switch in and out of water attunement as quickly and as often as possible. Switching into water is a heal, so attune to water, hit your water skill heals, dodge once for the evasive arcane heal, and get back out of water as quickly as possible so you can switch back into water again 9 seconds later. Repeat. Switch into earth for a second too even if your earth skills are on cool down just to get the protection buff.

Rockrain
FA

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Posted by: majortato.7125

majortato.7125

you will just need to play more. The elementalist D/D build is a tough one to get good at. 30 in arcana is a must. You will need to learn how to use dodge roll to your advantage. Fighting normal world enemies at low levels isn’t good practice because they die too quickly. The power of the D/D ele is setting up your own combo fields and building up your boons. Best bet is to get to higher levels and face tougher enemies so you can work on learning to deal with longer fights. Solo against vets and champs (not group champs) to get better.

So first things first.

1. get to lvl 80 so u have all your traits unlocked and do 10/30/30 into air/water/arcana

2. learn your attunements. think critically about them…what each skill does, when to use them, when to mix in dodge rolls, what rotations to use, how to create combo fields, how to stack might, etc. This will help you get started
* fire – direct dmg, setup fire fields with 3/4, engage enemies with 3. use 2 + 5 for big dmg. Switch to earth after fire 4 to stack might
* air – use 3 whenever possible, 4 to engage or escape (with no target selected), 5 for knockback which is incredible useful followed by fire 3, 2, 5 to burst DPS against someone
* water – attune whenever you need healing/condition removal. Get out of it as soon as possible so that it goes back on CD. Dodge in water is really nice for healing. 3,4,2 is good combo to use before getting out of water. switch out as soon as you start 2…no need to wait for it to end.
* earth – use after fire to stack might. After fire 4, dodge roll into the ring followed by earth 4,5 for 9 stacks of might quickly. Use earth 2 whenever you can as it’s good DPS. earth 3 is good as immobolize and engage. Earth also gives protection when attuning to it, so try to get out of earth as soon as possible so it starts on CD. I like to get in and do dodge roll, 4, 5. When you start 5, attune to something else rather than wait for it to finish. Also prepare to use flash lightning anytime you use earth 5.

So good basic rotation is air → fire → earth → water. But be ready to change it up if you need to. You really should be changing attunements every few seconds for the most part.

3. get used to the CD of all your skills so it becomes second nature. No need to look down and see if something is available…you should just know. This will take some serious time to do.

4. roll roll roll! with the Daphoenix build, you regen endurance like crazy…make use of this. Using dodging offensively is a great way to increase that DPS, while simultaneously giving you survivability.

5. stacking might by yourself is the key to turning your bunker plastic BB gun build into a DPS machine. Use superior sigil of battle which works on attunement switch. As ele, you can easily get up to 20+ stacks of might and keep it there by yourself indefinitely if played right. That’s like a 50% increase in base DPS. The ele is no slouch in longer fights. I was screwing around with a staff and fighting this vet….took forever to take it down. Tried again using D/D and took probably 1/5th the amount of time.

Good luck…don’t give up….it’s such a fun profession to play and feels rewarding when you get really good at it. Just be patient. I’ve been at lvl 80 for awhile now and I still feel like there’s so much more room to improve in playing my ele better.

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Posted by: Mek.2947

Mek.2947

Thanks for the great help everyone. I switched a few things up using the suggestions listed above. I used this last night in sPvP and WOW what a difference it made:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vl33;0J0BJkU015sM-Z0;9;5J-JT;105;248-54AXJ;4F-03F-036RP
(have to copy/paste link into new browser window)

It was very hard to kill me, and I felt like I was actually damaging people. The only classes that were giving me trouble were some killer thieves and some engineers; not all of them, there were just a few that seemed to be in god mode. Had a few fights with some mesmers and guardians that took an eternity and never really finished before other people joined the fight. Overall thought it was much improved, and was the play style I was looking for. Dodging with 30 Arcana was definitely key.

I found a calculator at work that lets you plug in your health and armor to determine how much damage you can take. It then suggests if you need vitality or toughness. The best compromise I could come up with,without sacrificing too much damage was to go with a soldiers amulet and a knights rune. According to the calculator this gave me an effective healthpool of 47k damage I could take.

I might tweek it a little more based on what majortato wrote. I hadn’t read his post yet when I created this.

Thanks so much for the help!!

(edited by Mek.2947)

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Posted by: Shadow Dragon Ad.2409

Shadow Dragon Ad.2409

The traits you’re running that build are all good though your second major in water should be cantrips grant regeneration and vigor if you’re running with 3 cantrips. It’s also worth noting that with a 0/20/0/20/30 build you’re usually a damage ele which often means you should run with arcane spells (wave and blast) to help you burst better however if you’re more comfortable with cantrips then run with them since they have more room for error.

Also your choice of runes is pretty bad, you generally want 6/6 divinity however if you’re more focused on team play you can go 6/6 mercy runes. Generally on an elementalist you want to be running a valks amulet or clerics, you’ll have a lower health pool but you get a lot from both the bonus healing on both amulets as well as the extra crit damage if you’re running arcane spells (since they always crit)

Here’s how i’d run it as a damage focused build: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vl33;0J0B2VV0c4kM-Z0;9;5J-JT;105;246-54AXJ;4sV2DsV2D4Bk (if you want you can switch in your 2 cantrips and run with III instead of VII)

Bunker focused has quite a bit less damage so probably not what you’re look for but here’s an example of it: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vl33;0J0B2VV0y4-N-Z0;9;59-TT;10;346A54AXJ;4sV2DsV2D3Nz

Just on the way you’d play the damage focused build: You’d do the usualy updraft —> burning speed combo just time your arcane spells to hit as the burning speed does for extra burst and make sure to hit your ring of fire (fire grab can be iffy with targetting so only use it after drakes breath)

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