Guild Wars 2

Okay, so I play Elementalist. I love Elementalist. Generally, I do not want to see them nerfed.

But there is one thing that an Elementalist can do right now, that is SO cheap, that even I think it has to be nerfed. And that thing is being able to use downed 2 and vapor right inside a structure you are defending.

This essentially means that an Ele defending a keep in UNKILLABLE. They can run out there, do all their D/D burst in the zerg, get downed, then just float right inside the keep portal, revive themselves and do it again.

I really don’t think any class should have a get out of death free card like this. Even mine.

Thought?

mist form is the only thing we have in downed state that isn’t terrible. It makes me miss it on my other characters.

they have been able to do this just because ur in mist form doesnt mean ur not allowed to use the portal ive done this without even bieng downed Dont QQ about 1 little skill it was essentially intended.

First of all they need to fix the bugs with the skill, that’s a lot more important (and of all the other ele skills that need some serious bug fixing). I’m talking about the fact that you get more and more downed penalty each time Vapor Form ends which is really annoying on so many situations

Also, unkillable Eles? What about a Guardian poping Renewing Vigor while running to a keep, then using Retreat, Save Yourselves, Aegis, you know all his buffs and enters the keep without a worry in the world.

What about thieves who can stealth inside?

Maybe next they should “nerf” Ride the Lightning too because it allows an Ele to “charge” to a door and get inside? Or Mist Form which is so similar to Vapor Form?

I don’t see a real issue here. If anything there are far more game-breaking skills in WvW than Vapor Form (I’m looking at you Portal)

Lordryux.9785:

they have been able to do this just because ur in mist form doesnt mean ur not allowed to use the portal ive done this without even bieng downed Dont QQ about 1 little skill it was essentially intended.

I use the skill regularly, and use it as cheaply as possible. That said, I realize when something is actually broken. An elementalist that goes outside an owned structure to fight attackers literally CANNOT be killed, and this requires them to use no defensive cooldowns or anything. Simply go outside, fight until downed, vapor form in…repeat.

I don’t see how this can’t be broken. Every other class in the game is at least somewhat vulnerable to death when they go outside a keep to fight. And remember…I say this from the perspective of an Elementalist. Not from the perspective of someone who is QQing about an Elementalist.

maddoctor.2738:

First of all they need to fix the bugs with the skill, that’s a lot more important (and of all the other ele skills that need some serious bug fixing). I’m talking about the fact that you get more and more downed penalty each time Vapor Form ends which is really annoying on so many situations

Also, unkillable Eles? What about a Guardian poping Renewing Vigor while running to a keep, then using Retreat, Save Yourselves, Aegis, you know all his buffs and enters the keep without a worry in the world.

What about thieves who can stealth inside?

Maybe next they should “nerf” Ride the Lightning too because it allows an Ele to “charge” to a door and get inside? Or Mist Form which is so similar to Vapor Form?

I don’t see a real issue here. If anything there are far more game-breaking skills in WvW than Vapor Form (I’m looking at you Portal)

Every one of the methods you mention of getting into a keep involves using CDs to “escape” the zerg into the keep. And they also require that you do not do something stupid and get downed. That is fine. That is basically intended.

Here is the problem with the Ele downstate…it requires no CDs, it requires no skill to use. Literally, all you do is, go out, wreak some havoc, and get downed. And you can repeat this ad infinitum.

All they have to do is make it so you can’t enter a portal in vapor form…that’s it, fixed.

Elementalist downed state is so pathetic that there really should be no discussion. The key to your QQ is that you are defending the keep, so the elementalist is simply using the door portal to his/her advantage. Seems like intended gameplay to me (similiar to campers in COD staying in one position to get their KD ratio so kitten high).

Creslin.1758:

maddoctor.2738:

First of all they need to fix the bugs with the skill, that’s a lot more important (and of all the other ele skills that need some serious bug fixing). I’m talking about the fact that you get more and more downed penalty each time Vapor Form ends which is really annoying on so many situations

Also, unkillable Eles? What about a Guardian poping Renewing Vigor while running to a keep, then using Retreat, Save Yourselves, Aegis, you know all his buffs and enters the keep without a worry in the world.

What about thieves who can stealth inside?

Maybe next they should “nerf” Ride the Lightning too because it allows an Ele to “charge” to a door and get inside? Or Mist Form which is so similar to Vapor Form?

I don’t see a real issue here. If anything there are far more game-breaking skills in WvW than Vapor Form (I’m looking at you Portal)

Every one of the methods you mention of getting into a keep involves using CDs to “escape” the zerg into the keep. And they also require that you do not do something stupid and get downed. That is fine. That is basically intended.

Here is the problem with the Ele downstate…it requires no CDs, it requires no skill to use. Literally, all you do is, go out, wreak some havoc, and get downed. And you can repeat this ad infinitum.

All they have to do is make it so you can’t enter a portal in vapor form…that’s it, fixed.

it requires no CDs its on a cooldown sir. next time u need to go look at the skill QQ all u like the nerf isnt happening cuz ur literally the only person who is complaining on these forums right now about it. Every class has its escape mechanics even some that are CHEAP to use. Next time i suggest u try every class and ull see wat im talking about.

IF anything its the only downed state skill that we have thats even worth using ..

mysticsicness.7598:

Elementalist downed state is so pathetic that there really should be no discussion. The key to your QQ is that you are defending the keep, so the elementalist is simply using the door portal to his/her advantage. Seems like intended gameplay to me (similiar to campers in COD staying in one position to get their KD ratio so kitten high).

Do you honestly believe that the Ele downed state is pathetic??? I have played every class in the game…I really think the Ele downed state is the best.

It actually gives you the ability to move away from the enemy zerg and get back to yours. Very few do this. Only thief really…and they can’t move as far I think.

If you want a pathetic downed state…just look at ranger lol. Yeah the pet revive is great, but only if people just leave you alone after downing you (not happening).

Lordryux.9785:

Creslin.1758:

maddoctor.2738:

First of all they need to fix the bugs with the skill, that’s a lot more important (and of all the other ele skills that need some serious bug fixing). I’m talking about the fact that you get more and more downed penalty each time Vapor Form ends which is really annoying on so many situations

Also, unkillable Eles? What about a Guardian poping Renewing Vigor while running to a keep, then using Retreat, Save Yourselves, Aegis, you know all his buffs and enters the keep without a worry in the world.

What about thieves who can stealth inside?

Maybe next they should “nerf” Ride the Lightning too because it allows an Ele to “charge” to a door and get inside? Or Mist Form which is so similar to Vapor Form?

I don’t see a real issue here. If anything there are far more game-breaking skills in WvW than Vapor Form (I’m looking at you Portal)

Every one of the methods you mention of getting into a keep involves using CDs to “escape” the zerg into the keep. And they also require that you do not do something stupid and get downed. That is fine. That is basically intended.

Here is the problem with the Ele downstate…it requires no CDs, it requires no skill to use. Literally, all you do is, go out, wreak some havoc, and get downed. And you can repeat this ad infinitum.

All they have to do is make it so you can’t enter a portal in vapor form…that’s it, fixed.

it requires no CDs its on a cooldown sir. next time u need to go look at the skill QQ all u like the nerf isnt happening cuz ur literally the only person who is complaining on these forums right now about it. Every class has its escape mechanics even some that are CHEAP to use. Next time i suggest u try every class and ull see wat im talking about.

It’s not on a cooldown lol. You get downed, you press 2, it works. Are we talking about the same thing???

mysticsicness.7598:

Elementalist downed state is so pathetic that there really should be no discussion. The key to your QQ is that you are defending the keep, so the elementalist is simply using the door portal to his/her advantage. Seems like intended gameplay to me (similiar to campers in COD staying in one position to get their KD ratio so kitten high).

Except that you can counter campers with some grenades/flashbangs. There is nothing to stop eles from using mist form and escaping safely all the time. While I usually try to refrain myself from saying a certain skill is op, I gotta say this one is, since with it you are pretty much unkillable near a keep.

Penguin.5197:

mysticsicness.7598:

Elementalist downed state is so pathetic that there really should be no discussion. The key to your QQ is that you are defending the keep, so the elementalist is simply using the door portal to his/her advantage. Seems like intended gameplay to me (similiar to campers in COD staying in one position to get their KD ratio so kitten high).

Except that you can counter campers with some grenades/flashbangs. There is nothing to stop eles from using mist form and escaping safely all the time. While I usually try to refrain myself from saying a certain skill is op, I gotta say this one is, since with it you are pretty much unkillable near a keep.

Whew, thanks for some support lol. I’m honestly shocked at how people are defending this. There should never be a class that is literally unkillable, because their downed state is a 100% save. I don’t see why this is up for debate.

Creslin.1758:

Every one of the methods you mention of getting into a keep involves using CDs to “escape” the zerg into the keep. And they also require that you do not do something stupid and get downed. That is fine. That is basically intended.

Here is the problem with the Ele downstate…it requires no CDs, it requires no skill to use. Literally, all you do is, go out, wreak some havoc, and get downed. And you can repeat this ad infinitum.

All they have to do is make it so you can’t enter a portal in vapor form…that’s it, fixed.

As it is now it DOES have a CD. Each use gives downed penalty, after 3 uses you are insta-killed. Each point of this penalty is removed after 60seconds so in a sense it does have a CD

maddoctor.2738:

Creslin.1758:

Every one of the methods you mention of getting into a keep involves using CDs to “escape” the zerg into the keep. And they also require that you do not do something stupid and get downed. That is fine. That is basically intended.

Here is the problem with the Ele downstate…it requires no CDs, it requires no skill to use. Literally, all you do is, go out, wreak some havoc, and get downed. And you can repeat this ad infinitum.

All they have to do is make it so you can’t enter a portal in vapor form…that’s it, fixed.

As it is now it DOES have a CD. Each use gives downed penalty, after 3 uses you are insta-killed. Each point of this penalty is removed after 60seconds so in a sense it does have a CD

By the time you revive yourself inside the keep, the “CD” will probably be up. Even a crappy elementalist should be able to stay alive for at least 60 seconds between downing lol. Oh and don’t forget that you have ACTUAL CD skills that can save you before you are downed.

I’m sorry, but there is really no defense for this. It is a downed state skill that provides a 100% escape method for any Ele defending a keep. Just take a step back for a moment and imagine if EVERY class could do this.

There would be hardly any successful keep sieges. You would need a MASSIVE zerg just to overcome the constant stream of unkillable players rushing forth from the keep to take you out.

I agree with you this skill is really good. But since i was dealing with how bad elementalist were before i can hardly bring my self to say nerf it. Plus most charectors can weapon switch on the FLY to a long range 1200 rifle or so… But an elementalist if hit even once by aoe will have to fight in melee range… I think the trade of is fair since most classes dont feel like they must fight on the ground… i bring a staff always for wvwvw and i think people who dont are idiots but i really like dagger and i cant do anything after getting into a fight…

WarLancer.1492:

I agree with you this skill is really good. But since i was dealing with how bad elementalist were before i can hardly bring my self to say nerf it. Plus most charectors can weapon switch on the FLY to a long range 1200 rifle or so… But an elementalist if hit even once by aoe will have to fight in melee range… I think the trade of is fair since most classes dont feel like they must fight on the ground… i bring a staff always for wvwvw and i think people who dont are idiots but i really like dagger and i cant do anything after getting into a fight…

True, but in the situation of a keep siege, you can easily just run back in the keep to get out of combat and switch to staff…I do it all the time.

maddoctor.2738:

Creslin.1758:

Every one of the methods you mention of getting into a keep involves using CDs to “escape” the zerg into the keep. And they also require that you do not do something stupid and get downed. That is fine. That is basically intended.

Here is the problem with the Ele downstate…it requires no CDs, it requires no skill to use. Literally, all you do is, go out, wreak some havoc, and get downed. And you can repeat this ad infinitum.

All they have to do is make it so you can’t enter a portal in vapor form…that’s it, fixed.

As it is now it DOES have a CD. Each use gives downed penalty, after 3 uses you are insta-killed. Each point of this penalty is removed after 60seconds so in a sense it does have a CD

^^ it has a CD and its on 8 sec timer yes the mists last 3s so its actually 5. even if/
if u use it 3 times ur done in so it really doesnt matter its still the only downed skill that is worth using.

Lordryux.9785:

maddoctor.2738:

Creslin.1758:

Every one of the methods you mention of getting into a keep involves using CDs to “escape” the zerg into the keep. And they also require that you do not do something stupid and get downed. That is fine. That is basically intended.

Here is the problem with the Ele downstate…it requires no CDs, it requires no skill to use. Literally, all you do is, go out, wreak some havoc, and get downed. And you can repeat this ad infinitum.

All they have to do is make it so you can’t enter a portal in vapor form…that’s it, fixed.

As it is now it DOES have a CD. Each use gives downed penalty, after 3 uses you are insta-killed. Each point of this penalty is removed after 60seconds so in a sense it does have a CD

^^ it has a CD and its on 8 sec timer yes the mists last 3s so its actually 5. even if/
if u use it 3 times ur done in so it really doesnt matter its still the only downed skill that is worth using.

Look…it doesn’t matter what the CD is. Because if you are next to a keep. You only need to use it one time, and you are 100% safe to revive. If you use it once and don’t get into the keep, then 99% of the time, you will die…so the CD is irrelevant.

That is why I say that it has no CD.

True and i do this to… but all classes can do this most classes warrior endure pain passive and active, thief spinning ultimate that hurts so much and reflects projectiles, guardians… mesmer oh god… not sure about others but from fighting necromancer they have like 3 health bars

i am saying that most classes have better passive defence than a elementalist most classes can take me than 3 hits ( arcane shield ) before dying expecially if they keep and eye on thier cooldowns…

i have on my warrior used 100 blades whirl , thrown ~ switch ulti from longbow and so on the my passive endure pain kicked in… i went back in since movement abilites break slows… then after heading came back out and did the same this time using my own endure pain…

now remember during this entire i was a total meat shield … i killed 2 players didnt dodge my stun and frenzy 100b and crippled many others while spreading plenty of aoe damage i surivived for like 15 or more secs before passive endure pain kicked in…

i am just saying a lot of chars have options for this… only thing is an elementalist can do this in any build which is mabye a bit overpowered.

WarLancer.1492:

True and i do this to… but all classes can do this most classes warrior endure pain passive and active, thief spinning ultimate that hurts so much and reflects projectiles, guardians… mesmer oh god… not sure about others but from fighting necromancer they have like 3 health bars

i am saying that most classes have better passive defence than a elementalist most classes can take me than 3 hits ( arcane shield ) before dying expecially if they keep and eye on thier cooldowns…

i have on my warrior used 100 blades whirl , thrown ~ switch ulti from longbow and so on the my passive endure pain kicked in… i went back in since movement abilites break slows… then after heading came back out and did the same this time using my own endure pain…

now remember during this entire i was a total meat shield … i killed 2 players didnt dodge my stun and frenzy 100b and crippled many others while spreading plenty of aoe damage i surivived for like 15 or more secs before passive endure pain kicked in…

i am just saying a lot of chars have options for this… only thing is an elementalist can do this in any build which is mabye a bit overpowered.

Yeah, I mean, Ele can do what you are talking about too while they aren’t downed. Mist form + Ether renewal is 100% get into nearby keep card.

BUT with all of those examples you gave, the class IS vulnerable to being unexpectedly bursted down and dying. Once they are downed, that’s it. For example, without downed 2, you may be outside wreaking havoc with 10K hp left and mist form ready to go so you think you’re good and then BAM 11K backstab, you’re dead. This kind of thing could happen to any class. It’s one thing to have a defensive skill…it’s another thing to use it.

With Ele though, they don’t have to worry about this. bursted down? Downed state 2, and way we go to safety!

Go out, get gibbed in 5 seconds, mist back, wait for hp penalties.

Repeat.

Man, sounds like tons of fun can’t wait to try this… and also totally unbeatable what an imbalance may as well give up on WvW forever now that someone has discovered elementalist whack a mole and turned elementalists into breathing walking Gods of WvW.

….And exactly what is achieved by this hopping in, and out?

Glasscannon ele can maybe spike 1-3 players down, all of who are ressed few seconds later, in few seconds it takes him to be downed himself.
Bunker can hop around all he wants but deals pretty much no damage, maybe he can scare few noobs bit further back.

Most anyone achieves with this is annoy people like you.

“remember that time that elementalist kept using mist form to run back into its keep, preventing us from using rams and stuff and totally stopping us from zerg-plowing the keep?”

Said nobody ever.

is mabye a bit overpowered.

Running away is now overpowered. Lol’ed hard.

Yes i agree that having a escape on downed is a strange choice a teleport may be better but too many classes have that , if they upped arcane shield to 5 or mabye even 6 hits thats would be worth it, then make our downed cause a random bouncing ball that has knockback on hit like the one from chieften fight…

not sure what they can do while our mist form is not an inconvince to others like a gaurdians or even a warriors throw which when used in a 1 v 1 fight at the right time means a 100% chance to get back up and fight its still far better when safety is nearby .

and yes i agree with all of the above 1 person doing anything is more annoying than anything… but a well organised group can ofcourse be good at what they want to do… wvwvw is group based thinking large scale shows that the attempts of one person trying to hinder a group will be of much better creating an arrow cart on the keep wall instead of acting the hero…

They should come up with some sort of condition that ignores mist form invulnerability. That would be new and unique. Like nothing we’ve ever seen before.

Caffynated.5713:

They should come up with some sort of condition that ignores mist form invulnerability. That would be new and unique. Like nothing we’ve ever seen before.

It´s called immobilize before activation btw.

Galrond.5972:

is mabye a bit overpowered.

Running away is now overpowered. Lol’ed hard.

Running away IS overpowered. Kiting saves you from death, that’s why the devs gave so much speed to elementalists since they have little armor and health.
I agree with the OP, mist form shouldn’t work on portals.

This is a L2P issue. I disagree with the OP. But I would gladly trade this skill for something much more useful in PVP.

Galrond.5972:

is mabye a bit overpowered.

Running away is now overpowered. Lol’ed hard.

nerf logan :P

I don’t see why people are saying that it’s a 100% escape, necros can pull you back, you can be affected by conditions like chill cripple and immob

hell, everytime I tried it, I instantly got locked in place until it ran out and my squishy kitten got zerged to death

don’t forget, it’s eles only stomp denial, only works three times because of death penalty, has a pretty hefty CD (10/15 seconds I believe), and the ele is still vulnerable to fall damage, and conditions

seems like somebody is just upset that downed eles aren’t a free kill anymore :P

yeah its not completely infallible. roots will root the mist form.
Also consider that you could combine this with damaging mists and do a little AE damage going in and out.

The opponent always has an advantage fighting near their towers, so no matter which class you fight, there is always a way to safely escape back into their tower and recuperate (except for archers, who usually goes pew pew on top of the wall anyways). Everyone who fights near their own towers knows to look for that “threshold” when they need to fall back, before popping stealth, endure pain, etc. Elementalists have to make sure they are within vapor-form distance to the tower before getting downed, or they’re dead. Even then, they cannot do this an unlimited number of times because of the downed penalty every time you use it.

With the lowest armor and hp pool, I dontt think this gives the elementalist a significant advantage to be able to escape into their towers when downed.

If we look at the big picture, how is one class specifically being able to instantly escape into towers when downed affect WvWvW on the whole? Something like mesmer portals are more game changing than this. I don’t think a server will win because of elementalists being able to vapor form safely into their keeps.

I abuse this regularly on my ele. I do it anytime i have the chance. I usually end up downing the squishies with my full combo before they realize what happened, then i either get downed and run back in get rezzed by guards and do it again or I get snared…and die. Its counterable so I wouldn’t say its that bad :P Though I do feel sorry for those who get owned over and over again because they realize I’m going to heal up and come back over and over again. 1 good snare can ruin it though so it a risk/reward tactic. plz no nerf mist form.

I think you all are missing the point.
but i think it is wise to expect a nerf here. Something like the mist form can not go through doors. hopefully they dont go overboard as nerfs tend to do.

I have done this in the spvp foefire map with the gates.
not over and over but certainly to almost complete safety from down.

I am pretty sure you cant juust keep repeating the situation you said, the Downed state #2 gets put on a cool down, so if you use it and get back in and run out side do your burst and get downed the thing will be on cool down unless you wait about 10-15seconds.

But i have seen plenty of other classes do something similar – like mentioned i have seen Guardians use similar thing, Thieves and Mesmers as well go out burst there skills and use abilities go get back inside – no different

So if Ele downed #2 should be nerfed then what about Portal? that for one is VERY broken and is more of an issue then ONE ele getting into a base. Pretty much every class has ways to avoid damage and do what you say so why not nerf them all as well?

the difference is that the ele is downed.
It will have a larger outrage factor than people just avoiding damage.
but yeah there is a counter. It does feel cheap when i have done it to avoid death or stomp.

there are condition that ignore mist form invulnerability. currently if i am not mistaken, any condition that is on u remain active on u after u entered mistform. considering i have been immobilized while in mistform before u can actually stop an ele from mist forming back.

so ele has the best escape method when downed but this is only when u are defending a gate. there are plenty of other downstate skill from other class that are superior while in open field, why not nerf those 1st?
and while we are at it. when the ele has the same type of escape skill as say, thief with their almost always available stealth, guardian and their mass defensive skills, warrior and their enduring pain, all of which has an active offensive uses besides escape and is almost always part of their build in WvW. other class can escape while not downed, ele has to escape while downed. i think thats pretty even.

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

yeah its not completely infallible. roots will root the mist form.
Also consider that you could combine this with damaging mists and do a little AE damage going in and out.

Are you sure that roots will affect vapor form (downed state 2)? I have done vapor form many, many times and NEVER been CC’d in it. I’ve also attempted to root other ele’s in vapor form with magnetic grasp, but it never worked.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I am pretty sure you cant juust keep repeating the situation you said, the Downed state #2 gets put on a cool down, so if you use it and get back in and run out side do your burst and get downed the thing will be on cool down unless you wait about 10-15seconds.

But i have seen plenty of other classes do something similar – like mentioned i have seen Guardians use similar thing, Thieves and Mesmers as well go out burst there skills and use abilities go get back inside – no different

So if Ele downed #2 should be nerfed then what about Portal? that for one is VERY broken and is more of an issue then ONE ele getting into a base. Pretty much every class has ways to avoid damage and do what you say so why not nerf them all as well?

Portal isn’t broken…zeros that don’t have someone with the presence of mind to sweep a keep for mesmers deserve to lose their keep.

You need to understand, this isn’t about an escape skill like the mist form cantrip. That skill is similar to endure pain or something and there is no issue with that. The problem is with vapor form, downed state 2. An ele can use this to get inside a keep AFTER they are downed.

This is the only skill in the game that can do this. All the other survival skills require the player to be not downed to use. Once they are downed, and are in a sea of enemies, they are done, and that is fair. But with ele 2, downed means nothing…this is why it’s am issue.

Creslin.1758:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

yeah its not completely infallible. roots will root the mist form.
Also consider that you could combine this with damaging mists and do a little AE damage going in and out.

Are you sure that roots will affect vapor form (downed state 2)? I have done vapor form many, many times and NEVER been CC’d in it. I’ve also attempted to root other ele’s in vapor form with magnetic grasp, but it never worked.

It doesn’t clear any form of conditions. So if you are rooted when you use it you will just stand there like an idiot.

As for the topic at hand, if ele downed state is nerfed in any possible way I will quit the game. We have a ridiculously bad downed state outside a 1v1 fight. Vapor Form lets us get out of 1 stomp attempt, and the 3 skill has too long a cast that it won’t keep anyone at bay after using VF since they will already be on top of you when you’re downed again anyway.

Creslin.1758:

Portal isn’t broken…zeros that don’t have someone with the presence of mind to sweep a keep for mesmers deserve to lose their keep.

Portal should have the same limitations as other AoE/Multi-target abilities and thats a 5 person limit. Of course half the problem with Portal isnt the portal at all but the HUGE delay in players appearing, its not so much of a problem IF you see the portal being dropped in the mess of spell effects it can be tricky you can simply nuke it with AoE and hope everyone gets killed, though thats unlikely.

Wondering, Any abilities out there that can make groups immune to damage for a short period of time? coz combining the 2 would be insane but as i dont see it happening im guessing not. Another option could be having a a Few Eles, Condition Necro and another Mesmer (with that speed buff elite) having the eles go Tornado and the Necro go Plague would be deadly in the middle of a group i think

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Creslin.1758:

Portal isn’t broken…zeros that don’t have someone with the presence of mind to sweep a keep for mesmers deserve to lose their keep.

Portal should have the same limitations as other AoE/Multi-target abilities and thats a 5 person limit. Of course half the problem with Portal isnt the portal at all but the HUGE delay in players appearing, its not so much of a problem IF you see the portal being dropped in the mess of spell effects it can be tricky you can simply nuke it with AoE and hope everyone gets killed, though thats unlikely.

Wondering, Any abilities out there that can make groups immune to damage for a short period of time? coz combining the 2 would be insane but as i dont see it happening im guessing not. Another option could be having a a Few Eles, Condition Necro and another Mesmer (with that speed buff elite) having the eles go Tornado and the Necro go Plague would be deadly in the middle of a group i think

5 player limit only applies to a single projectile, for example the Guardian Wall of Reflection has no limit on how many attacks it can reflect, having that would be stupid. Same with Line of Warding or that bubble thing they have, there is no limit to how many people that will stop.

And yes, Feedback/Wall of Reflection makes you virtually immune to (ranged) damage for a few seconds.

You do know you can CC an Ele in mist form right? If you know they are going down, get ready to CC them (immobilise) when they go into mist or stack conditions, or knock/pull them away from the gate.

And the down state is not an issue, it’s fine.

Sorry if already said, but:

I know in mist form I can still take condition damage like bleed and burn.

Perhaps we can be immobilized in mist form too?

I haven’t tested myself, just offering this as a possible counter to try on us eles in these situations… That way perhaps a nerf can be avoided.

Edit: guy above me beat me… Seems we can be cc’d. Sould be possible to counter our downed state then

Shlamorel.8714:

Sorry if already said, but:

I know in mist form I can still take condition damage like bleed and burn.

Perhaps we can be immobilized in mist form too?

I haven’t tested myself, just offering this as a possible counter to try on us eles in these situations… That way perhaps a nerf can be avoided.

Edit: guy above me beat me… Seems we can be cc’d. Sould be possible to counter our downed state then

Okay but here is the problem with that. Afaik, you can’t root during vapor form…and ele can vapor form immediately after downed state. So you would basically have to preemptively root him the exact moment before you kill him. Because if you root him after he is downed, it will be too late. And if you root him too early, the immobilize will wear off in time for him to get inside.

So that is really not much of a counter. It sounds good in theory craft, but practically, it will hardly ever be viable.

Look, I’m not exactly advocating a big nerf here…just saying that downed state 2, shouldn’t be able to go through portals…that’s it. The only thing this will cause is to make ele’s just as kill able as any other class in keep defense. I mean, it’s not like we are lacking defenses.

Edit: just read that a player loses all conditions when downed…which makes this counter almost impossible.

Oh and another thing…you can dodge in vapor form, so even if you can be affected by a root, it is extremely unlikely to ever happen.

Creslin.1758:

Shlamorel.8714:

Sorry if already said, but:

I know in mist form I can still take condition damage like bleed and burn.

Perhaps we can be immobilized in mist form too?

I haven’t tested myself, just offering this as a possible counter to try on us eles in these situations… That way perhaps a nerf can be avoided.

Edit: guy above me beat me… Seems we can be cc’d. Sould be possible to counter our downed state then

Okay but here is the problem with that. Afaik, you can’t root during vapor form…and ele can vapor form immediately after downed state. So you would basically have to preemptively root him the exact moment before you kill him. Because if you root him after he is downed, it will be too late. And if you root him too early, the immobilize will wear off in time for him to get inside.

So that is really not much of a counter. It sounds good in theory craft, but practically, it will hardly ever be viable.

Look, I’m not exactly advocating a big nerf here…just saying that downed state 2, shouldn’t be able to go through portals…that’s it. The only thing this will cause is to make ele’s just as kill able as any other class in keep defense. I mean, it’s not like we are lacking defenses.

Edit: just read that a player loses all conditions when downed…which makes this counter almost impossible.

I can have burns and bleed cast on me while im in mist or vapor form, so what i was saying is id assume you can root them while they are in mist/vapor. If so, you wouldn’t have to rely on doing it pre-empetively.

I actually don’t mind your perspective so I hope I didnt come off that way. I simply disagree that our downed state allows endless/invulnerable siege defense. I’m ok with agreeing to disagree.

immobilise them before they vapor form

TGSlasher.1458:

immobilise them before they vapor form

Not possible, downed clears all conditions, vapor form can be triggered immediately on downed.

there is a time limit on vapor form so therefore a max distance they can travel. heres a few things for u 2 do.

1. drag them away from the gate when they come out and then down them with pull skills
2. dont be so close to the gate and instead range it and force the d/d ele to move out of his vapor form travel distance to gate in order to even hit u.
3. not all ele use mist form straight away, a possible shot at immobilizing them
4. not sure if this works, but was it line of warding from guardian? the skill that physically blocks people from walking through, dunno if it works while on vapor form though. someone know or can try it?

as for people not being smart enough for doing that. well game balancing hopefully is not based on the action of no skill players.