Guild Wars 2

So I haven’t been able to log in to play the update today because I am in class. I did look at the patch notes on the wiki. Yet again, Ride the lightning’s recharge has increase (drastically at that) and distance has been shortened.

WHY DOES YOU KEEP NERFING IT?

For other elementalists and myself, ride the lightning is our main form of transportation across the vast lands of Tyria. We don’t use it to attack, we just use it to move quickly because it takes so long to get somewhere…..

summary:
1) Why are you nerfing the skill so much, all the time?
2) Please stop nerfing it and make it more accessible.

I reckon its a pvp based nerf. They have a tendency of nerfing it as a whole instead of where its suppose to be targetted.

They’re still probably better than anyone at getting from point a to point b. Nonetheless I’m surprised it wasn’t a pvp specific nerf.

KeybladeMaster.3148:

For other elementalists and myself, ride the lightning is our main form of transportation across the vast lands of Tyria. We don’t use it to attack, we just use it to move quickly because it takes so long to get somewhere…..

summary:
1) Why are you nerfing the skill so much, all the time?
2) Please stop nerfing it and make it more accessible.

thats the problem. d/d elemental was more mobile than a thief.

RTL was meant to be used as a gap closure during combat but not out combat mobility or an escape skill.

Thief should be the most mobile class in the game.

No, its not a pvp nerf. It is also a pve nerf too. d/d elemental was not design to be more mobile than a thief in wvwvw

loseridoit.2756:

Thief should be the most mobile class in the game.

WHY?

Thief has higher armor, access to infinite Stealth via HS/BP combo, and better mobility than the Ele even before the nerf.

Why should a medium armor profession that stylistically should be creeping up silently behind its target for a backstab have MORE mobility than a cloth armored caster playing melee with PBAoE?

This idea that the Thief should be the most mobile profession is just stupid. All professions should be mobile, but the Elementalist has NO class mechanic that helps with survivability, at all. The one thing that kept Eles from being a free kill in WvWvW was their high mobility and good sustain via healing. It certainly wasn’t their abysmal damage. Now the Ele has none of that.

Exactly, WHY?

and if it is because of PvP, THEN SPLIT THE SKILL. plenty of other skills are being split. several skills in gw1 were split.

Raze.8467:

They’re still probably better than anyone at getting from point a to point b. Nonetheless I’m surprised it wasn’t a pvp specific nerf.

Only with fiery greatsword (which as an elite has a long cooldown). Without it, thief and warrior blow us out of the water. Probably ranger too.

Nonetheless, our mobility in PvE was one of our major selling points, so anet’s going to have a lot of angry customers on their hands with this completely unjustified PvE nerf. I’m chalking it up to laziness and unwillingness to do the work to split the skill (you’d think it would be an easy change but who knows how poorly designed their code is).

Kaleban.9834:

loseridoit.2756:

Thief should be the most mobile class in the game.

WHY?

Thief has higher armor, access to infinite Stealth via HS/BP combo, and better mobility than the Ele even before the nerf.

Why should a medium armor profession that stylistically should be creeping up silently behind its target for a backstab have MORE mobility than a cloth armored caster playing melee with PBAoE?

its really, simple. Anet have a philosophy between classes. If they break that philosophy they manage to design a new game. They are trying to make the game work as intented

D/D elementalist is the jack of all trades but the master of non. However, they were the master of all trades too which mean d/d elemental was the best roaming and pvp class. They needed some type of nerf.

RTL cd is still 20 sec but you have to hit something

Elementalist has NO class mechanic that helps with survivability, at all.

Now, I dont want to argue against this bs.
D/D elementalist have alot of abilities to get out of trouble.

KeybladeMaster.3148:

Exactly, WHY?

and if it is because of PvP, THEN SPLIT THE SKILL. plenty of other skills are being split. several skills in gw1 were split.

its not just a pvp problem, its also a pvE problem too.

loseridoit.2756:

KeybladeMaster.3148:

Exactly, WHY?

and if it is because of PvP, THEN SPLIT THE SKILL. plenty of other skills are being split. several skills in gw1 were split.

its not just a pvp problem, its also a pvE problem too.

How is it a PvE problem? it’s not like you can’t just casually walk away from the AI in GW2…

I Am Dansker.7105:

loseridoit.2756:

KeybladeMaster.3148:

Exactly, WHY?

and if it is because of PvP, THEN SPLIT THE SKILL. plenty of other skills are being split. several skills in gw1 were split.

its not just a pvp problem, its also a pvE problem too.

How is it a PvE problem? it’s not like you can’t just casually walk away from the AI in GW2…

No, but d/d elemental should not be able to out roam a thief in WvWvW

loseridoit.2756:

KeybladeMaster.3148:

For other elementalists and myself, ride the lightning is our main form of transportation across the vast lands of Tyria. We don’t use it to attack, we just use it to move quickly because it takes so long to get somewhere…..

summary:
1) Why are you nerfing the skill so much, all the time?
2) Please stop nerfing it and make it more accessible.

thats the problem. d/d elemental was more mobile than a thief.

RTL was meant to be used as a gap closure during combat but not out combat mobility or an escape skill.

Thief should be the most mobile class in the game.

No, its not a pvp nerf. It is also a pve nerf too. d/d elemental was not design to be more mobile than a thief in wvwvw

You should really stop posting, because everything you just said is wrong.

Thief was more mobile than ele with 1500 range 15 second cooldown RTL.

Caffynated.5713:

loseridoit.2756:

KeybladeMaster.3148:

For other elementalists and myself, ride the lightning is our main form of transportation across the vast lands of Tyria. We don’t use it to attack, we just use it to move quickly because it takes so long to get somewhere…..

summary:
1) Why are you nerfing the skill so much, all the time?
2) Please stop nerfing it and make it more accessible.

thats the problem. d/d elemental was more mobile than a thief.

RTL was meant to be used as a gap closure during combat but not out combat mobility or an escape skill.

Thief should be the most mobile class in the game.

No, its not a pvp nerf. It is also a pve nerf too. d/d elemental was not design to be more mobile than a thief in wvwvw

You should really stop posting, because everything you just said is wrong.

Thief was more mobile than ele with 1500 range 15 second cooldown RTL.

Yea I know that theives can be insanely mobile because it an intended class mechanic.

However, a d/d elemental have comparable mobility which anet wants to nerf.

loseridoit.2756:

Now, I dont want to argue against this bs.
D/D elementalist have alot of abilities to get out of trouble.

How is it BS?

Do you really want me to list all the abilities other classes have that gives them survivability? And then compare that to what the Ele has? In general, most other classes have survivability built into either their weapon sets (i.e. Distortion on Mesmer Sword 2, Warrior and Guardian blocks on Shields), or built into a defining class trait, such as Clones/Phantasms on Mesmer, a Ranger’s Pet, Necro’s Death Shroud, or Stealth on the Thief.

The Ele’s survivability on almost any build comes from utilities, namely Arcane Shield and the various Cantrips, which all have excessive CDs. It USED to also include in combat mobility thanks to RtL, as well as sustain healing from MF-ER and Water traits, ALL of which have been nerfed significantly.

ANet nerfed the Ele’s ability to extend and escape into the ground, while giving nothing back to compensate them in combat. The whole point behind use of RtL or MF was to escape the no-win scenario, now for ANY Ele build there is literally no way to escape any attacker. Which means any Ele caught is eventually a dead Ele.

loseridoit.2756:

Caffynated.5713:

loseridoit.2756:

KeybladeMaster.3148:

For other elementalists and myself, ride the lightning is our main form of transportation across the vast lands of Tyria. We don’t use it to attack, we just use it to move quickly because it takes so long to get somewhere…..

summary:
1) Why are you nerfing the skill so much, all the time?
2) Please stop nerfing it and make it more accessible.

thats the problem. d/d elemental was more mobile than a thief.

RTL was meant to be used as a gap closure during combat but not out combat mobility or an escape skill.

Thief should be the most mobile class in the game.

No, its not a pvp nerf. It is also a pve nerf too. d/d elemental was not design to be more mobile than a thief in wvwvw

You should really stop posting, because everything you just said is wrong.

Thief was more mobile than ele with 1500 range 15 second cooldown RTL.

Yea I know that theives can be insanely mobile because it an intended class mechanic.

However, a d/d elemental have comparable mobility which anet wants to nerf.

You’re not listening. Thief completely outclassed ele mobility 3 nerfs ago. It wasn’t comparable. It wasn’t close. Thieves were massively better at moving around any map, even when RTL was a 15 second 1500 range ability.

“Jack of all trades” doesn’t mean you can’t be near best at something if you spec for it. If the logic that ele should be 4-5th best at everything, regardless of build, then you have a super-boring and crappy class. You have to be able to specialize for the game-play style you want. For instance, if the jack of all trades wants to be an upper-end speedster who can survive (trading off damage of course), that should be possible. If they want to be a glass-cannon ganker, that should be possible (trading off survivability). Finally, if they want to be a turtle with decent damage, that should also be possible with the right spec. However, if an ele specced for speed is still in the lower half (thieves, rangers, warriors, mesmers all outclass in that dept. now), then you are not a jack of that trade at all. By the way, thieves, warriors, and rangers had superior straight-line displacement prior as well :-). If you are a thief, being the best at mobility doesn’t mean that you can run circles around everyone and catch up to everyone, especially if you are specced for super-burst+stealth+regen. Being the best at mobility comes in 2 flavors: best evasion/stealth (thief is king), and best straight-line (thief is king, but blows init like other classes blow their cooldowns).

And ele’s have problems in PvE, devs even acknowledged as much, then did nothing to fix it.

Kaleban.9834:

loseridoit.2756:

Now, I dont want to argue against this bs.
D/D elementalist have alot of abilities to get out of trouble.

How is it BS?

Do you really want me to list all the abilities other classes have that gives them survivability? And then compare that to what the Ele has? In general, most other classes have survivability built into either their weapon sets (i.e. Distortion on Mesmer Sword 2, Warrior and Guardian blocks on Shields), or built into a defining class trait, such as Clones/Phantasms on Mesmer, a Ranger’s Pet, Necro’s Death Shroud, or Stealth on the Thief.

The Ele’s survivability on almost any build comes from utilities, namely Arcane Shield and the various Cantrips, which all have excessive CDs. It USED to also include in combat mobility thanks to RtL, as well as sustain healing from MF-ER and Water traits, ALL of which have been nerfed significantly.

A few things, lots of classes get out of jail free cards have long cd. Besides, it very difficult to effectiveness of long cd due to other class mechanics. However, d/d elemental was extremely mobile build.

Yea, I know the elemental got a huge nerf bat. I didn’t want this huge nerf either.

Anet did make it possible to still have a 20 sec cd on rtl. Elemental just have to hit something

ANet nerfed the Ele’s ability to extend and escape into the ground, while giving nothing back to compensate them in combat. The whole point behind use of RtL or MF was to escape the no-win scenario, now for ANY Ele build there is literally no way to escape any attacker. Which means any Ele caught is eventually a dead Ele.

hey i didnt want the d/d elemental to have a massive cd nerf to rtl either. RTL nerfs other build too which sucks.

loseridoit.2756:

Anet did make it possible to still have a 20 sec cd on rtl. Elemental just have to hit something

You missed the part about it still being 40 sec if your target in anyway shape or form does not take damage which is like 50% or more of the time you use it (it’s not like the player can’t see the giant lightning ball headed towards them and then dodge it)

i used RTL on an NPC in WvWvW that still had the immortality boon (idk what the real name of the boon is) and the cooldown was 40 sec even though it was a hit, just did 0 damage…

I Am Dansker.7105:

loseridoit.2756:

Anet did make it possible to still have a 20 sec cd on rtl. Elemental just have to hit something

You missed the part about it still being 40 sec if your target in anyway shape or form does not take damage which is like 50% or more of the time you use it (it’s not like the player can’t see the giant lightning ball headed towards them and then dodge it)

i used RTL on an NPC in WvWvW that still had the immortality boon (idk what the real name of the boon is) and the cooldown was 40 sec even though it was a hit, just did 0 damage…

yea i know about that mechanic. I said hit something.

Hit means dealing damage in this game.

For example, stealth does not reveal when the opponent block, invulnerability, miss, and dodge.

I get little irradiated about these little stupid mechanics in the game.

loseridoit.2756:

However, d/d elemental was extremely mobile build.

Anet did make it possible to still have a 20 sec cd on rtl. Elemental just have to hit something

The first statement is forum propaganda. The Ele has never been “extremely mobile” for a significant period of time now, about half the other classes, which include heavily armored king of PvE Warrior, PvE easy mode Ranger, and noobcannon Thief have always had more mobility both in and out of combat. The misconception was fueled by RtL’s bugged range, which allowed Eles to escape combat. Which is necessary for survival, the D/D playstyle even with all boons cannot survive facetanking for any significant period of time. Eles NEED an escape tool, otherwise they are free kills.

The second statement ignores what players primarily used RtL for, to escape bad situations. As a front line, melee, PBAoE blasting, tissue paper armor wearing character, bad situations occur, frequently.

If ANet wants RtL to be a gap closer only, fine. Then make it like EVERY other gap closer, short CD (say 20s), with a 900 range. BUT given the Eles low inherent survivability (now more than ever) something else must be changed to allow Eles a chance to escape via mobility. Here’s a few suggestions:

1. Adjust Ride the Lightning to have a 900 range, with a 20s CD. Adjust the damage to compensate. This makes it a gap closer with a shorter range than Warrior’s Rush with a comparable CD.

2. Adjust Lightning Flash’s CD to 30s, keep the 900 range, allowing it to be used in tandem with other movement skills. This also helps Staff and Focus users and is comparable to a Mesmer’s Blink skill

3. Adjust Burning Retreat into a Sequence skill. First skill is Searing Blast, moving the Ele forward in the same fashion as Burning Speed, with a Blast Finisher at the end, giving the Staff Ele a second Blast Finisher bringing it in-line with the other available weapons. Burning Retreat then becomes the sequence skill but reverts shortly if not used. This skill would then function similarly to Illusionary Leap, but without need for a target, and would provide Staff users with a forward movement gap closer/creator.

4. Adjust Blinding Flash to a teleport. Would function exactly like Flashing Blade, but keep the 900 range.

5. Adjust Magnetic Grasp to function without a target. If no target is selected when using MG, it simply defaults to using Magnetic Leap to push you forward 900.

So all of the above changes give the Ele lots of in combat mobility which it desperately needs to survive, without allowing it to escape any fight it cannot win, forcing the Ele player to carefully weigh the odds. Why this kind of logical balance is so hard for the devs to fathom is beyond me. But to not give a light armored class in an MMO with no inherent survival mechanism some reliable means of survival is just ridiculous.

I’m really pleased this is getting so much attention.

and some guy who posted earlier was right – it’s not like we can just walk away from AI

if its a WvW problem, then SPLIT THE SKILL FOR WvW

Kaleban.9834:

loseridoit.2756:

However, d/d elemental was extremely mobile build.

Anet did make it possible to still have a 20 sec cd on rtl. Elemental just have to hit something

The first statement is forum propaganda. The Ele has never been “extremely mobile” for a significant period of time now, about half the other classes, which include heavily armored king of PvE Warrior, PvE easy mode Ranger, and noobcannon Thief have always had more mobility both in and out of combat. .

The statement is not pure propaganda. d/d elementalist can run away better than a thief.

On the other note, I agree that Anet should of done something different for elementalist. Players wants to play other builds.

loseridoit.2756:

Kaleban.9834:

loseridoit.2756:

However, d/d elemental was extremely mobile build.

Anet did make it possible to still have a 20 sec cd on rtl. Elemental just have to hit something

The first statement is forum propaganda. The Ele has never been “extremely mobile” for a significant period of time now, about half the other classes, which include heavily armored king of PvE Warrior, PvE easy mode Ranger, and noobcannon Thief have always had more mobility both in and out of combat. .

The statement is not pure propaganda. d/d elementalist can run away better than a thief.

On the other note, I agree that Anet should of done something different for elementalist. Players wants to play other builds.

There is no reason to nerf the skill in PvE. They split other skills they nerfed this patch, I honestly don’t understand why they didn’t split this one when such a split was so obviously the way to go.

I can only conclude someone gets a jolly from pointless, mean spirited nerfs.

Fiontar.4695:

There is no reason to nerf the skill in PvE. They split other skills they nerfed this patch, I honestly don’t understand why they didn’t split this one when such a split was so obviously the way to go.

I can only conclude someone gets a jolly from pointless, mean spirited nerfs.

wvwvw is considered to be pve. rtl needed the nerf there because the ele beat a thief as the best roaming class. I guess anet wanted to change that

Stop crying and adapt. Good d/d ele will still destroy everything. Bad d/d ele will die. Just like it should be. These nerfs are putting the class/build inline with the average strengths and weaknesses of all classes. I know how to play d/d ele, and this change doesnt bother me one bit. Because the bottom line is I will still win those 1v2 or 3 situations just like ive been doing for a couple months now, the only change is not being able to run away forever from an obscene amount of ppl. What makes d/d ele great is not rtl, its the combination of boons, high dmg and sustained healing and condition removal, none of which has changed. If you are a d/d ele trying to zerg fight, something it was never meant to do, then u are stupid and u dont deserve to win or live (Learn2staffpls).

Honestly, if one class is low hp light armor, and another is low hp medium armor and both are melee range, wouldn’t it make sense for the lighter armor one to be more mobile, or similarly mobile? Sure, eles have built in heals, but thieves also have stealth to supplement mobility in escapes. The argument is that eles can tank along with their mobility, but thieves can play tanky well builds too, it’s just that most don’t cause they can’t cap in pvp, but that shouldn’t be an issue for wvw.

Honestly, I don’t understand why there’s the notion that thieves should be the most mobile in every game either. Stealthy =/= fast. As far as what the profession actually consists of, you’d think rangers would be the most mobile being all out doorsy and what not …but this second paragraph actually has nothing to do with gw2 so I’ll just shut up on this thought.

That being said, yeah, the bunker version of eles will still be good, cause tanking does really need as much mobility as other builds.

I have no issue with nerfing RtL in PvE >>>>>IF<<<<< they’re really going by the philosophy that thief is the fastest roamer. I just ask that they nerf warriors and rangers as well since they get the same mobility and aren’t supposed to have it based on that same philosophy.

hitfromtheboing.8361:

Stop crying and adapt. Good d/d ele will still destroy everything. Bad d/d ele will die. Just like it should be. These nerfs are putting the class/build inline with the average strengths and weaknesses of all classes. I know how to play d/d ele, and this change doesnt bother me one bit. Because the bottom line is I will still win those 1v2 or 3 situations just like ive been doing for a couple months now, the only change is not being able to run away forever from an obscene amount of ppl. What makes d/d ele great is not rtl, its the combination of boons, high dmg and sustained healing and condition removal, none of which has changed. If you are a d/d ele trying to zerg fight, something it was never meant to do, then u are stupid and u dont deserve to win or live (Learn2staffpls).

The people who are upset are not playing face roll cantrip bunkers. They’re still OP, just like I said they would be, because these changes don’t do anything to change what makes them powerful. To borrow from Bill Clinton, “It’s the [cantrips] stupid.”

The people who are upset are those who have been clinging to mediocre to underpowered burst builds. They relied on hit and run tactics because they can’t face tank everything like a bunker ele. They needed to be able to mist form and heal. They needed to be able to use RTL after 12 seconds to jet out of combat, because they had little staying power, and long cooldowns on their burst skills. This patch put another nail in their coffin.

moral of my story is. i don’t even use d/d i usually use scepter/dagger. i just want to traverse the map fast

Navzar.2938:

Honestly, if one class is low hp light armor, and another is low hp medium armor and both are melee range, wouldn’t it make sense for the lighter armor one to be more mobile, or similarly mobile?

Eles have much better access to defensive boons, healing, and condition removal than thieves making them much less squishy.

Baseline armour and health of a class doesn’t do much for staying power. If it did, we’d be seeing warriors everywhere in tpvp.

Ride the Lightning skill:
Increased recharge increased 20 seconds to 40 seconds.
Recharge is now halved if the player strikes a foe.
Reduced the range to 1200 from the previous (hidden) 1550.

so many bunny’s are going to die now ANet… is that what you want?
i suggest keeping the 20sec cooldown if your out of combat. If not, place more bunny’s in the world so i can ride my lightning on them. and ofcourse risen bunny’s in orr that act the same as any little critter. no “in combat status” or anything.

loseridoit.2756:

Fiontar.4695:

There is no reason to nerf the skill in PvE. They split other skills they nerfed this patch, I honestly don’t understand why they didn’t split this one when such a split was so obviously the way to go.

I can only conclude someone gets a jolly from pointless, mean spirited nerfs.

wvwvw is considered to be pve. rtl needed the nerf there because the ele beat a thief as the best roaming class. I guess anet wanted to change that

Dude where do you guys get this from? Thief has always been the best roamer. Math in one of my upvoted threads. The embellishments are disgusting now. Thief is the best roamer in terms of mobility and survivability due to stealth. When it comes to roaming there is no safer class to do it on. I am not complaining about it ( I play it) but at the same time I don’t like the blatant lying that goes on here.

Lets cut the bullkitten. Stop inflating the numbers, making bold faced lies, and trumping up what can and can not be done. Ele was a good roamer but it was never the best. It can still be an ok roamer but not as good as it was before. Thief is the best roamer it just isn’t always the best in sustained fights. Warrior and ranger can be better at roaming than ele but not better than thief. This isn’t always the way it is but they can be.

Ele roaming is not dead but there are better options. Is the truth that hard to spit out?

Not sure if this is serious or trolling really hard but a D/D ele never beats a thief in terms of mobility. Honestly, if a thief can’t keep up with a D/D ele the person playing the thief needs to improve or evaulate their level of play.

RTL isn’t meant only as a gap closer if it was then skills like Warrior Rush (GS 5) or Warrior Sword 3 would be considered a gap closer. Yet the reality is that those skills aren’t nerfed and they provide mobility both in combat and out of combat.

RTL 20 seconds is useless for various reasons. First RTL related bugs which hopefully they some day fix. Second, every profession video on how to counter Ele involves dodging the predictable RTL + updraft combo people used to use months ago. At near max range (1100-1200) it is easy for the other people to dodge out of RTL’s range. As a result, RTL will go on a 40s CD instead of 20s. This includes dodging backwards, blink abilities (Mesmer staff 2), and other similar juking, dodge, or mobility skill which are common on many other professions. On top of that, RTL can be used to get behind someone (non targeted RTL) or used to gap close someone 1200+ range away like RTL + Earth 3 or any similar combo. For most skilled Ele players RTL is 40s and the 20s CD doesn’t matter much because the situations where you will get 20s is limited to white mobs in WvW in your line of motion (RTL straight instead of going left or right of where you were intended on going) or <1000 range RTL once in a while due to reliablity issues.

Eles never beat a thief in terms of roaming ever in WvW. Eles were average in terms of roaming, above average only if you roam around specific areas where you can LoS and use your PbAoE. Mesmers and thieves are much better roamers.

The problem was that too many people confsed Ele’s tPvP roaming ability with Ele’s WvW roaming ability. As a result, A.net applied the same nerf to both.

In tPvP, ele was very good at roaming. This was because RtLing out of combat at one point already put you fairly close to the next point, and it would usually take you far enough away from your opponent so that you’d drop out of combat. The other classes would not get as much distance when using their leap skills to disengage because their leap skills are affected by current movespeed. Thief was about on par because of shadow shot.

But none of this holds true in WvW. Most of the roaming in WvW is just running around a big map with absolutely nothing going on. In these situations, the other leap skills outshine RtL (even pre-nerf) because they benefit from swiftness and have a lower CD.

This is why the RtL nerf should be limited to tPvP.

CuRtoKy.8576:

Not sure if this is serious or trolling really hard but a D/D ele never beats a thief in terms of mobility. Honestly, if a thief can’t keep up with a D/D ele the person playing the thief needs to improve or evaulate their level of play.

RTL isn’t meant only as a gap closer if it was then skills like Warrior Rush (GS 5) or Warrior Sword 3 would be considered a gap closer. Yet the reality is that those skills aren’t nerfed and they provide mobility both in combat and out of combat.

Dude, a d/d elemental was the best build in the game. It not a simple matter of learn to play for a thief.

Anet design it as a gap closer but they didnt realize it was more powerful as an escape skill

RTL 20 seconds is useless for various reasons. First RTL related bugs which hopefully they some day fix. Second, every profession video on how to counter Ele involves dodging the predictable RTL + updraft combo people used to use months ago. At near max range (1100-1200) it is easy for the other people to dodge out of RTL’s range. As a result, RTL will go on a 40s CD instead of 20s. This includes dodging backwards, blink abilities (Mesmer staff 2), and other similar juking, dodge, or mobility skill which are common on many other professions. On top of that, RTL can be used to get behind someone (non targeted RTL) or used to gap close someone 1200+ range away like RTL + Earth 3 or any similar combo. For most skilled Ele players RTL is 40s and the 20s CD doesn’t matter much because the situations where you will get 20s is limited to white mobs in WvW in your line of motion (RTL straight instead of going left or right of where you were intended on going) or <1000 range RTL once in a while due to reliablity issues.

I wonder if you know anything about RTL. The patch actually nerf RTL range. It was a hidden 1550 range attack.

CuRtoKy.8576:

Eles never beat a thief in terms of roaming ever in WvW. Eles were average in terms of roaming, above average only if you roam around specific areas where you can LoS and use your PbAoE. Mesmers and thieves are much better roamers.

Elemental is comparable to an thief which is not average. Their incombat mobility with rtl is ridiculously high. They have defense boons to migrate damage too.

Are you kidding me about Mesmer? Mesmer cannot disengage from a battle as easily. They have limited access to teleport and speed boons.

Staff #2 teleport only has a slight range advantage then someone running with a speed boon which means a Mesmer will always be slower than ele or other class

loseridoit.2756:

Are you kidding me about Mesmer? Mesmer cannot disengage from a battle as easily. They have limited access to teleport and speed boons.

Staff #2 teleport only has a slight range advantage then someone running with a speed boon which means a Mesmer will always be slower than ele or other class

Actually, mesmer is one of the easiest classes to disengage with:
Staff #2 => Decoy => blink. If you’re in WvW, you can toss in your invis elite too if you need it. Temporal curtain (or heal if you have air or centaur runes) for swiftness. You can do this about every 30 seconds.

And in many tPvP maps, you only need to decoy, blink, or staff#2 simply because the person attacking your point is likely to remain on your point so that he can neut it.

ResJudicator.7916:

loseridoit.2756:

Are you kidding me about Mesmer? Mesmer cannot disengage from a battle as easily. They have limited access to teleport and speed boons.

Staff #2 teleport only has a slight range advantage then someone running with a speed boon which means a Mesmer will always be slower than ele or other class

Actually, mesmer is one of the easiest classes to disengage with:
Staff #2 => Decoy => blink. If you’re in WvW, you can toss in your invis elite too if you need it. Temporal curtain (or heal if you have air or centaur runes) for swiftness. You can do this about every 30 seconds.

And in many tPvP maps, you only need to decoy, blink, or staff#2 simply because the person attacking your point is likely to remain on your point so that he can neut it.

yea…. but a rtl can easily beat that combo in one skill.

staff #2 have a 5 second cd when traited but is only barely faster than a person with a speed boon

tPvP is quite different scenerio. I would say that mesmer is just as good at disengaging on some map because mesmer can exploit the difference in elevation. Of course, this require plenty of experience and micro with phase retreat

I play an Ele and the adjustment was NEEDED. It was OP that you could use it as a GTFO ability when things started going south. I’m glad they adjusted it.

Loco.4561:

I play an Ele and the adjustment was NEEDED. It was OP that you could use it as a GTFO ability when things started going south. I’m glad they adjusted it.

Adjustment was needed however a straight cd nerf was kidda uncessary.

They could of adjust the range of rtl or added other quirks such as be vulnerable to immobilization.

This change was a complete nerf to roaming builds in wvwvw and ooc mobility.

Oh well, time will only tell if this nerf will kill the class.

I still contemplating Anet’s philosophy since a complete nerf 100 nades. That build was not OP

It’s so easy to read when an ELE will pop RTL, not sure why it was nerfed. Maybe to make things easier for people who spam abilities mindlessly? For people who don’t want to put effort into learning how to counter certain abilities?

Pay attention to what cooldowns the ele has blown, watch for the swap to air attunement > http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilize .

Even if the cooldown on your immobilize is greater than RTL most eles will not “GTFO” out unless they’re out of healing/defensive options. In that case they’ll usually have nothing left once you’ve countered their RTL and you’ll have (or would have had) 20 seconds to finish them off before they can use it again.

I think the better way to have handled forcing players to use RTL as an attack instead of an escape would have been to give it more damage so that it would be seen as a loss of dps to waste it getting away. If they did this and gave it a minor cd increase just flatly instead of conditionally there would be less outrage and it would be keeping in the style of give/take balancing instead of straight up skill gutting.

The range fix is fine as long as they also fixed how easy it was to get snagged on the most minor terrain.

I wonder if some of you even realize that D/D is considered nonviable by many top level players. S/D is the preferred weapon set, with it’s higher healing, blinds to secure stomps (saves mist form), free armor, longer range, spamable low cooldown abilities for signet heal, zoning ability, burst, etc.

Crying about D/D is kind of a sign that you don’t actually understand the problem and shouldn’t be taken seriously in balance discussions.

Caffynated.5713:

I wonder if some of you even realize that D/D is considered nonviable by many top level players. S/D is the preferred weapon set, with it’s higher healing, blinds to secure stomps (saves mist form), free armor, longer range, spamable low cooldown abilities for signet heal, zoning ability, burst, etc.

Crying about D/D is kind of a sign that you don’t actually understand the problem and shouldn’t be taken seriously in balance discussions.

This is something I’ve always thought too.

It’s funny when you hear people say “scepter is basically unusable”. I’m like whaaaa

@loseridoit

I am aware of 1550 I’m talking about post nerf which is 1200 range with a 40s CD which a secondary effect of it being 20s CD when it hit someone. I am just stating the fact that the situations where an Elementalist will get the 20s CD is slim.

d/d wasn’t the best build for an Elementalist it was the most balanced and fun build to play. s/d was actually superior to d/d in s/tpvp if you play it right. Staff Ele with static field is actually superior than d/d in terms of control and group fights in WvW. The reason being is that staff eles have some skills that ignore the 5 person AoE limit. d/d was just fun and it feels great playing it since the skills mesh well together. On top of that, it was strong (similar to Mesmers and Thieves) but it wasn’t OP.

Mesmers can disengage from a battle easily through the use of juke mechanics and burst movement. Don’t believe me, look up Oscicat Shattercat build videos. It showcases how you can use burst mobility to engage and burst someone down. At the same time, it shows portal jukes along with stealth and burst mobility Mesmers can be quite mobile. Now that isn’t to say that Mesmers will hands down beat an Ele running from the top supply camp in WvW to the bottom one.

Blinks are superior to swiftness boon in the heat of battle because it can teleport you x units somewhere in situations where mobility skills like RTL, Warrior Rush, or swiftness will not work. An example of this is when youare immobilized swiftness or RTL cannot help you there but a blink like ability will even though it will not remove the immobilize.

Eles in combat mobility was slightly above average. They has RTL, burning speed, and Lightning Flash (which has a high base CD compared to Mesmer teleport). Compared that with Thieves mobility in combat like Shadowstep + return, stealth, and a lot of leaps/shadowstep abilities in their weapon sets. Mesmers have blink, Staff 2, sword 3 blink, portal, and stealth. Rangers have good in combat mobility with leaps on sword along with their range on their other weapon set. Warriors have good in combat mobility they just have problems setting up their damage.

Caffynated.5713:

I wonder if some of you even realize that D/D is considered nonviable by many top level players. S/D is the preferred weapon set, with it’s higher healing, blinds to secure stomps (saves mist form), free armor, longer range, spamable low cooldown abilities for signet heal, zoning ability, burst, etc.

Crying about D/D is kind of a sign that you don’t actually understand the problem and shouldn’t be taken seriously in balance discussions.

Most people are arguing about the dagger offhand nerf (RTL), which affects both D/D and D/D. People are probably just bringing up D/D rather than S/D because that’s what they’ve been playing in either W3, PvE, but not necessarily in sPvP.

According to devs
Thief should be the fastest in the game
Thief should have the most DPS
Thief should have better healing
Thief should have better surviving mechanics

Makes sense i mean in every game thieves runs while stealthed to be more silent…..
Its not that in every game stealth reduces dsastically movement just to prevent broken gameplay….

CuRtoKy.8576:

@loseridoit

I am aware of 1550 I’m talking about post nerf which is 1200 range with a 40s CD which a secondary effect of it being 20s CD when it hit someone. I am just stating the fact that the situations where an Elementalist will get the 20s CD is slim.

d/d wasn’t the best build for an Elementalist it was the most balanced and fun build to play. s/d was actually superior to d/d in s/tpvp if you play it right. Staff Ele with static field is actually superior than d/d in terms of control and group fights in WvW. The reason being is that staff eles have some skills that ignore the 5 person AoE limit. d/d was just fun and it feels great playing it since the skills mesh well together. On top of that, it was strong (similar to Mesmers and Thieves) but it wasn’t OP.

Mesmers can disengage from a battle easily through the use of juke mechanics and burst movement. Don’t believe me, look up Oscicat Shattercat build videos. It showcases how you can use burst mobility to engage and burst someone down. At the same time, it shows portal jukes along with stealth and burst mobility Mesmers can be quite mobile. Now that isn’t to say that Mesmers will hands down beat an Ele running from the top supply camp in WvW to the bottom one.

Why bring up Osicat, his burst is due to an overpowered combination of food buffs and armor stats.

His winds of chaos hits for 700-1k.

I can bring up Dapheniox and his ability to kite 10+ people.

CuRtoKy.8576:

Blinks are superior to swiftness boon in the heat of battle because it can teleport you x units somewhere in situations where mobility skills like RTL, Warrior Rush, or swiftness will not work. An example of this is when youare immobilized swiftness or RTL cannot help you there but a blink like ability will even though it will not remove the immobilize.

actually, that guy immobile the d/d elemental right before he want to use RTL. I wonder if that guy is crazy good or lucky. D/D elemental deserve to die in those situations. The D/D elemental fought a completely better player. If the d/d elemental does not die then the class is broken and OP

Eles in combat mobility was slightly above average. They has RTL, burning speed, and Lightning Flash (which has a high base CD compared to Mesmer teleport). Compared that with Thieves mobility in combat like Shadowstep + return, stealth, and a lot of leaps/shadowstep abilities in their weapon sets. Mesmers have blink, Staff 2, sword 3 blink, portal, and stealth. Rangers have good in combat mobility with leaps on sword along with their range on their other weapon set. Warriors have good in combat mobility they just have problems setting up their damage.

Why bring up mesmer. Out of all the classes, mesmer have the most problems running away from a fight. Do you play a mesmer at all?

A combination of RTL + perma swiftness will always beat a mesmer in a race.

Staff #2 is only just as as fast as a swiftness boon. Blink have a short cd because Mesmer tends to use all their skill. Most mesmers will find most of their skills on cd because that the way the class is design.

sword #3 skill is extremely buggy

I will only agree about your comment about taking Wvwvw camps if the mesmer portal is set up which the mesmer have to sacrifice dps to use. In most cases, the d/d elementalist will be able to run away easier

I will not comment on Ranger because I never care about learning that class

loseridoit.2756:

Why bring up mesmer. Out of all the classes, mesmer have the most problems running away from a fight. Do you play a mesmer at all?

A combination of RTL + perma swiftness will always beat a mesmer in a race.

Staff #2 is only just as as fast as a swiftness boon. Blink have a short cd because Mesmer tends to use all their skill. Most mesmers will find most of their skills on cd because that the way the class is design.

sword #3 skill is extremely buggy

I will only agree about your comment about taking Wvwvw camps if the mesmer portal is set up which the mesmer have to sacrifice dps to use. In most cases, the d/d elementalist will be able to run away easier

I play mesmer a lot in a T1 server (for whatever that’s worth… I don’t think players in T1 are any better, there’s just more of them) and have absolutely no trouble disengaging.

If you’re having trouble disengaging from a fight, then that means you are moving too predictably while stealthed. You shouldn’t be disengaging as a mesmer by bee-lining to the nearest friendly tower and blowing all your cooldowns. You disengage by juking your opponent via blink and stealths. As soon as you drop out of combat, you can waypoint to safety.

Ele relies on pure speed to escape because they lack stealth (unless you’re in the water). The only way to escape for an ele is to either outrun the other guy or to tank the damage until you can reach a safe area.

And ranger’s sword 2 will take you out of the enemy’s range in one sequence, while acting as a dodge for the first half. (It also has a very low cooldown).

ResJudicator.7916:

loseridoit.2756:

Why bring up mesmer. Out of all the classes, mesmer have the most problems running away from a fight. Do you play a mesmer at all?

A combination of RTL + perma swiftness will always beat a mesmer in a race.

Staff #2 is only just as as fast as a swiftness boon. Blink have a short cd because Mesmer tends to use all their skill. Most mesmers will find most of their skills on cd because that the way the class is design.

sword #3 skill is extremely buggy

I will only agree about your comment about taking Wvwvw camps if the mesmer portal is set up which the mesmer have to sacrifice dps to use. In most cases, the d/d elementalist will be able to run away easier

I play mesmer a lot in a T1 server (for whatever that’s worth… I don’t think players in T1 are any better, there’s just more of them) and have absolutely no trouble disengaging.

If you’re having trouble disengaging from a fight, then that means you are moving too predictably while stealthed. You shouldn’t be disengaging as a mesmer by bee-lining to the nearest friendly tower and blowing all your cooldowns. You disengage by juking your opponent via blink and stealths. As soon as you drop out of combat, you can waypoint to safety.

Ele relies on pure speed to escape because they lack stealth (unless you’re in the water). The only way to escape for an ele is to either outrun the other guy or to tank the damage until you can reach a safe area.

And ranger’s sword 2 will take you out of the enemy’s range in one sequence, while acting as a dodge for the first half. (It also has a very low cooldown).

Those are dueling build and dueling builds do not scale unlike a d/d elemental

Osicat made it scale by adding an overpowered armour combination. In spvp, the mesmer will have problems in 2 or more opponents

Besides, wvwvw is huge and stealth does not last that long for a mesmer.

Elemental have an invulnerability get out of jail free card. They have cantrips and other goodies. So, I do not understand your statement sometimes.

Protection boon can add alot of tankiness to any build