Guild Wars 2

Just a thought I had that might be a neat idea. Some of the traits we can select as Eles reward you for staying in one attunement, and the majourity of the community has deduced that staying in one attunement limits your potential. I think the intent was to make single attunement builds viable, but they clearly aren’t. Hence, this idea.

Basically, if you hold down one of your attunement buttons for two seconds, it locks you into that attunement for 30 seconds and provides a sizeable increase in skill power. For example, you hold down the fire attunement button for 3 seconds, it locks you out of the other attunements and increases damage by 20%. Hitting the attuenement button again releases the lock, puts the attunements on cooldown, and surrenders the buff. Locking into air gives you 10% more crit chance and 20% more crit damage. Locking into water gets you 10% more vitality and 20% more healing. You get the idea. It would allow the people who say the elementalist is too hard to have a simpler approach, and it would create some interesting new builds.

I will add, that I don’t think this idea is feasible in the game’s current state. There’s already enough balance issues that we don’t need to complicate by adding a new style of play into the mix. However, this could be fun in the future and add more options to the class.

Thoughts?

You know, the way I see it is that the thing that differentiates Elementalist from other classes is the attunement mechanic. The main difference between say an Elementalist and a warrior is the fact that an Elementalist has 20 weapon skills available with any one build instead of 10, and these weapon skills are typically all one range category, but are always more “generalist” and not very specialized.

In other words, an Ele can always heal, DPS and CC regardless of what build they have. While a warrior will typically build to focus on one of those things.

Trying to add a feature that locks Ele into one attunement goes against what I perceive to be the fundamental philosophy of the class. I really feel like some people just want to be a fire wizard or whatever and they are complaining that Elementalist does not fit into their expectation.

But the problem in this scenario is not the elementalist…the problem is their expectation.

Not a bad idea to give an option like that, but I would use the existing system. There is a trait in air for instance that gets better the longer you stay in air, I would do them like that. Like +5% damage and a buff, that gets better every 10 seconds you stay in attunement, up to 25%. edit: yea make them traits instead of changing the way the class works..

But you can’t ignore that some of our traits lend themselves to using one specific attuement. The One with Fire and One with Air traits espeically indicate this, rewarding players the longer they stay in an attunement (not that they’re good traits, but still). Even if the devs scrapped the idea of an ele that stays in one attunement, evidence would indicate that they intended it to be a type of playstyle at one time.

What I don’t get is why would we want a mechanic that would almost definitely make our class more boring to play?

Right now, I am encouraged to constantly swap attunements and utilize all my skills intelligently. What is wrong with this?

I for one would be VERY bored if just staying in fire attunement almost all the time was the optimal way to play…only shifting into other attunement for “oh crap” skills. I know a bunch of people have a fantasy of being a “fire” or “air” mage or whatever…but it’s just not going to happen, and it really shouldn’t happen. The class is built to utilize ALL of their elements…not just one.

Kilger.5490:

Not a bad idea to give an option like that, but I would use the existing system. There is a trait in air for instance that gets better the longer you stay in air, I would do them like that. Like +5% damage and a buff, that gets better every 10 seconds you stay in attunement, up to 25%.

An idea like that could also work. Less commitment to an attunement, but less rewarding as well.

Xriah.5743:

But you can’t ignore that some of our traits lend themselves to using one specific attuement. The One with Fire and One with Air traits espeically indicate this, rewarding players the longer they stay in an attunement (not that they’re good traits, but still). Even if the devs scrapped the idea of an ele that stays in one attunement, evidence would indicate that they intended it to be a type of playstyle at one time.

The air one is basically just for travel (and is useless considering we can get perma-swiftness with Zephyr’s boon alone). The fire one is a pretty crappy trait as well.

But anyway, I don’t think those traits necessarily mean they want you to stay in one attunement. The idea could be that they are meant to increase your initial “spike” damage at the beginning of the fight…at least that’s how I would interpret them.

For example, you run around the map attuned to fire for 3 minutes, then you see an enemy. You unload your initial fire burst on him, and you get the full advantage of your trait that gives you bonuses for being attuned to fire. After that…it’s probably a good idea to switch attunements in the fight to best utilize your skills.

Staying in fire and foregoing all CC, healing, and additional DPS just so you can take advantage of a trait seems like a bad idea.

Creslin.1758:

What I don’t get is why would we want a mechanic that would almost definitely make our class more boring to play?

Right now, I am encouraged to constantly swap attunements and utilize all my skills intelligently. What is wrong with this?

I for one would be VERY bored if just staying in fire attunement almost all the time was the optimal way to play…only shifting into other attunement for “oh crap” skills. I know a bunch of people have a fantasy of being a “fire” or “air” mage or whatever…but it’s just not going to happen, and it really shouldn’t happen. The class is built to utilize ALL of their elements…not just one.

In a balanced world, it wouldn’t be the optimal way to play. It would be an optional way to play.

For you and me, Ele is challenging, engaging, and fun. However, there are plenty of people out there who want it to be more straightforward. You can’t change the way the ele plays now in order to accomidate them. That wouldn’t be fair to us. You could, however, make it a viable option. It wouldn’t harm us as long as the implementation maintained balance. (Balance that we don’t have yet mind you)

Xriah.5743:

Creslin.1758:

What I don’t get is why would we want a mechanic that would almost definitely make our class more boring to play?

Right now, I am encouraged to constantly swap attunements and utilize all my skills intelligently. What is wrong with this?

I for one would be VERY bored if just staying in fire attunement almost all the time was the optimal way to play…only shifting into other attunement for “oh crap” skills. I know a bunch of people have a fantasy of being a “fire” or “air” mage or whatever…but it’s just not going to happen, and it really shouldn’t happen. The class is built to utilize ALL of their elements…not just one.

In a balanced world, it wouldn’t be the optimal way to play. It would be an optional way to play.

For you and me, Ele is challenging, engaging, and fun. However, there are plenty of people out there who want it to be more straightforward. You can’t change the way the ele plays now in order to accomidate them. That wouldn’t be fair to us. You could, however, make it a viable option. It wouldn’t harm us as long as the implementation maintained balance. (Balance that we don’t have yet mind you)

I actually enjoy playing a class that many people regard as being difficult to play, and that’s why I picked Elementalist. If someone wants to play a straightforward class, then they should pick a class like warrior or thief, heck any class is more straightforward than elementalist. I guess I just don’t see anything wrong with one class being more complex than others…it’s always been like that, even going back to original D&D…mages were ALWAYS more complex than fighters.

In the end, it’s always more efficient to correct a problem you have yourself, rather than complaining that the “system” did not cater to you.

I don’t see anything wrong with the Ele being complex. I also don’t see anything wrong with having more simplistic options. I always like having more options. What’s wrong with more ways to play? If anything, it’ll make the fact that the more advanced Eles use all of our elements MORE unique.

I think it just comes down to where the dev’s effort is best spent…

Right now, Ele works fine as a complex class. Yes, there are issues, but there is no reason to make the class simpler.

If ANet decided to embark upon this mission of satisfying complainers and giving ele a simple “option,” then they would have to choose to not spend their effort on other things. Like…fixing RTL, doing something to make our conjures more appealing, making fire a viable trait line etc…

I just don’t think it’s a good idea for the dev to invest so much effort in making Ele simpler just because that is how some people “want” the profession to be, despite the fact that they have tons of other options to choose from. There are a lot more actual problems that they need to be focusing on.

I personally thought that the recent Ele patch was a great direction for the devs to be going. They are fixing the actual problems with Ele. Like the fact that Ring of Earth was basically no better than your auto-attack, or the fact that getting downed was an immediate death sentence, or the fact that Fire grab was very hard to connect with.

THOSE things needed fixing…overhauling the class just so people will stop whining that they can’t be a fire mage should not be top priority.

This is what the conjure weapons should be more like.

Creslin.1758:

I think it just comes down to where the dev’s effort is best spent…

Right now, Ele works fine as a complex class. Yes, there are issues, but there is no reason to make the class simpler.

If ANet decided to embark upon this mission of satisfying complainers and giving ele a simple “option,” then they would have to choose to not spend their effort on other things. Like…fixing RTL, doing something to make our conjures more appealing, making fire a viable trait line etc…

I just don’t think it’s a good idea for the dev to invest so much effort in making Ele simpler just because that is how some people “want” the profession to be, despite the fact that they have tons of other options to choose from. There are a lot more actual problems that they need to be focusing on.

I personally thought that the recent Ele patch was a great direction for the devs to be going. They are fixing the actual problems with Ele. Like the fact that Ring of Earth was basically no better than your auto-attack, or the fact that getting downed was an immediate death sentence, or the fact that Fire grab was very hard to connect with.

THOSE things needed fixing…overhauling the class just so people will stop whining that they can’t be a fire mage should not be top priority.

If you look at my original post, I’m in agreement. The devs shouldn’t attempt to implement this in the game’s current state. I just wanted reflections on the idea itself.

Xriah.5743:

Creslin.1758:

I think it just comes down to where the dev’s effort is best spent…

Right now, Ele works fine as a complex class. Yes, there are issues, but there is no reason to make the class simpler.

If ANet decided to embark upon this mission of satisfying complainers and giving ele a simple “option,” then they would have to choose to not spend their effort on other things. Like…fixing RTL, doing something to make our conjures more appealing, making fire a viable trait line etc…

I just don’t think it’s a good idea for the dev to invest so much effort in making Ele simpler just because that is how some people “want” the profession to be, despite the fact that they have tons of other options to choose from. There are a lot more actual problems that they need to be focusing on.

I personally thought that the recent Ele patch was a great direction for the devs to be going. They are fixing the actual problems with Ele. Like the fact that Ring of Earth was basically no better than your auto-attack, or the fact that getting downed was an immediate death sentence, or the fact that Fire grab was very hard to connect with.

THOSE things needed fixing…overhauling the class just so people will stop whining that they can’t be a fire mage should not be top priority.

If you look at my original post, I’m in agreement. The devs shouldn’t attempt to implement this in the game’s current state. I just wanted reflections on the idea itself.

Well in that case…I guess I would be indifferent only if my playstyle (complex) still remained superior. I just don’t want to get stuck in a boring class when I picked a complex interesting one because the meta changed to make boring the best option.

That’s a valid concern. I think we all know that true balance is strived for, but never obtained. I can’t see limiting your options becoming the superior way to play unless the locking bonuses are way too drastic.

just for the sake of exploration….
maybe it could work such that when i locked a trait it could not switch back to it for a longer duration. a burnout option.

that might be an interesting elite. 10-30 secs of +100% damage/effectiveness when i hit the elite for whatever attunment i am in but then after that i get bumped to next atunment and can not switch back to the burned out one for 180 seconds.
out of my kitten numbers there

I like it as a complex class, but thats not to say that there couldnt be some way for people to enjoy it differently if it doesnt take anything away. Probably wouldnt be the best way to play either but if someone wants to, why not let them?

Options are good thing imo, as long as there arent any negative consequences.

Omg stop trying to change the class now guys. It’s fine. It really is. Bug fixes and maybe MAYBE an extra couple trait points are all we need. Seriously.

The ONLY way we can get close to other professions is by the versatility of our attunements.
Yust because the OP apparently has trouble attunement dancing, doesnt mean the whole elementalist needs a revamp -_-

Just becuase you have trouble taking the time to read before posting doesn’t mean I can’t use attunements effectively. It’s an idea. An ADDITION to the class’ options to give everyone the best of both worlds to be considered after the class has been effectively balanced. This isn’t a revamp. I’m not saying take away attunement dancing. I’m talking about adding options.

Try reading next time instead of assuming anything about my playing skill.

I don’t see a problem with the class being a complex one but I also don’t see a problem with more (some that may be simpler) options either, like the OP. It’d just be another way to play, just like one can create a build around arcane abilities, or around cantrips or around conditions or support.

Just adding to the idea a bit, perhaps have it as an ‘extra’ 20pt trait called Attunement Affinity that lets you ‘lock’ into that attunement for a time (or maybe as long as you’d like) that’d add effects to the attunement itself as 20pt trait for free and you could at most have 3 attuments with the ability to ‘lock’ into them and perhaps add even more effects as an extra 30pt trait. Unlocking from a locked attunement puts it in a 30sec cool down (as well as the attument lock button).

Free Fire traites: 20pt unlock Raging Flames = Gain fury for each burn stack you apply (max 5 stacks); 30pt unlock Pyro-Master = Automatically grants Lava Tomb, Fire’s Embrace and One With Fire, if you have those traits as any of your major traits, those traits are greatly improved.

Free Water traits: 20pt unlock Bitter Chill = 10% chance attacks to cause chill, criticals apply chill. 30pt unlock Aqua-Master = Automatically grants the Shards of Ice, Vital Striking and Soothing Wave major traits, if you already have these as major traits their effect is greatly enhanced.

Free Fire trait: 20pt unlock Vital Shock = criticals have a chance to cause weakness, being struck has a 20% chance to apply weakness to the attacker.; 30pt unlock Aero-Mastry = automatically grants Zephyr’s Boon, Bolt to the Heart and Air Training major traits, if you have those traits as your major traits their effect is greatly enhanced.

Free Earth traits: 20pt unlock Bleeding Stones = Bleeding causes vulnerability; 30pt unlock Geomancer’s Punishment = automatically grants Earth’s Embrace, Salt Stone and Geomancer’s Freedom traits, if those are chosen as your major traits, their effect is greatly improved.

Granted, those traits are only unlocked when you ‘lock’ yourself into an attunement and you can only lock yourself into an attunement you have 20 or more trait points in.

And you can mix this up a bit too…use the ` button (the weapon swap button) to lock yourself in the attunement you’re in. While you’re locked into a major element, the element’s extra traits open and the other elements become ‘minor elements’ that grant temporary effects related to them. Using the minor elements puts the element into 30sec cooldown.

Minor elements = temporary effects that alter your major focused element.

Fire Major Element
-Water = Energy….Energy as in steam-powered. Your attacks grant vigor, speed and haste for a short time.
-Air = Light…Critical create bright flashes that blind foes, causing them to miss more often.
-Earth = Miniral…as in crystal and rock. Your next attack will knock down all that it hits.

Water Major Element
-Fire = Acid…attacks have a chance to apply poison as well as a chance to create a noxious gas cloud that causes vulnerability and weakness on your next attack.
-Air = Life…attacks grant regen to allies for a time and healing abilities are improved.
-Earth = Swamp…chills cause cripple and stun for a time.

Air Major Element
-Fire = Holy…attacks remove conditions from nearby allies and heals them.
-Water = Storm…area of all attacks is greatly enhanced and apply vunlerability for a time.
-Earth = Gravity…knocked down/blown back foes take additional fall damage as well as stay down longer for a duration.

Earth Major Element
-Fire = Cataclysm…create a wide-area fire field around you. Your next attack causes burning.
-Water = Wood…create a wide-area retaliation field around you. Damage reflected during the duration is granted back as healing.
-Air = Metal…area and range of your attacks is improved for a time. Bleeding and cripples applied lasts 2x longer.

Creslin.1758:

You know, the way I see it is that the thing that differentiates Elementalist from other classes is the attunement mechanic. The main difference between say an Elementalist and a warrior is the fact that an Elementalist has 20 weapon skills available with any one build instead of 10, and these weapon skills are typically all one range category, but are always more “generalist” and not very specialized.

In other words, an Ele can always heal, DPS and CC regardless of what build they have. While a warrior will typically build to focus on one of those things.

Trying to add a feature that locks Ele into one attunement goes against what I perceive to be the fundamental philosophy of the class. I really feel like some people just want to be a fire wizard or whatever and they are complaining that Elementalist does not fit into their expectation.

But the problem in this scenario is not the elementalist…the problem is their expectation.

To the average player, not solid PvPers or hardcore gamers, stylistic difference matters more than mechanical. So long as there is a class that uses the four elements, people will have desire to fulfill fantasies about being an aeromancer, pyromancer, geomancer, or hydromancer. And the traits and many other aspects of elementalist play strongly suggest that this is a playstyle the designers intended to make available, but apparently failed to.

While I’m not totally against this idea, I don’t really like it.

Elementalist needs to be strong in each element, but also provide incentive for those who know how to play them all together well. It shouldn’t feel like that when I specialize into Air that only Air feels epic and gets benefits and that I never want to change attunement out of Air. Air certainly should be prioritized, and the ideas and flavors of Air (high dmg and CC or whatever the description says) should be what you’re getting out of it.

I feel that the traits need to provide “element-flavored” benefits to all of the elementalist’s skillsets rather than either providing inclination not to swap, or inclination to “stance-dance”.

What I mean is that some of the traits pigeon hole benefit solely into 1 element only, or they provide little to no benefit to any or just let you bounce around elements quicker.

ie only reduces this elements cooldowns, only when attuned to this element will do this

Why bother switching elements then? You won’t get those benefits.

otherwise its completely unrelated to your element, or it just provides ability to swap elements around.

I feel like something as simple as making halved benefits when out of the element being provided would be nice. I feel like it might be stupid but can we not just try to make arcane reduce all cooldowns of all elements slightly (smaller compared to the element specific ones), and change all the element beneficial traits to provide a benefit to all elements, but a distinctly larger one when attuned to that element. Also we should just shove certain traits together I think.

What I mean for example specifically…..

Please don’t judge my idea purely on numbers, the concept is more important I’d think.

Flame barrier You have a 20% chance to cause burning whenever a foe attacks you in melee. Only a 10% chance when not attuned to fire, rather than only when attuned to fire.

Internal Fire Deal 10% more damage while attuned to fire.

Above should be given together with

Pyromancer’s Alacrity All your fire weapon skills recharge 20% faster.

A post was previously made about how nearly all other professions get CD reduction + other benefits, why not the elementalist?

Hell you might as well shove all the +10% dmg when attuned to element, all together to apply to all elements and shove it in the Arcane tree.

Piercing Shards While attuned to water, your spells deal 20% more damage to vulnerable foes. Otherwise it’s 10% benefit.

TL;DR

-Shove the +10% dmg benefit while attuned to this element into 1 trait along with CD reduction.
-all element specific attunement benefit traits provide smaller benefit when out of that element
-create new traits to replace the removal of some like above (since +10% will be worked into 20% reduction)
-make arcane reduce all spell CDs along with attunement CDs (though nowhere near as significantly as the trait specific ones)
-change conjured utility weapons into 1 glyph and create 3 new utility skills for ele

All I’m thinking that elementalist when speccing gets benefits for both staying in certain elements of their choice, and swapping around. A class should make use of all it’s mechanics right?

The idea of the OP is pretty much already implemented with the Conjure Weapon skills; you kind of lock yourself into only having 5 weapon skills but ideally get more raw damage or more straight defensive so players who enjoy a more simple profession can still enjoy the Elementalist.