As ppl seem to only look at tempest base off of it has a wh and it has overloade then yes it looks bad but tempest added soo much more to ele things that ele had no way of doing before adding in tempest that fits the ele class well. Aura healing support is a very specialized type of playing for ele that at best before was just a few boons. Now its a type that is able to truly keep ppl alive and give them good boons. The specialization should not be able to do it all and tempest is the support line. The next may be dmg or tank or something else but to call tempest bad at this point seeing what ppl have done with it is a bit silly.
If tempest hadn’t gotten invigorating torrents at the last second it would’ve been objectively worse than regular ele; since it did get invigorating torrents it’s objectively better than regular ele.
That’s why tempest sucks. The way it was designed was simply wrong and now it can never be anything other than ele+ or ele-. People were saying this since the very first bwe and Anet did nothing about it.
No matter what weapon ele gets with its next elite I have zero faith in it. It’s either going to be utter trash that should never be used like the majority of ele options, or its going to be power creep insanity that invalidates everything else in the class.
That’s why tempest sucks. The way it was designed was simply wrong and now it can never be anything other than ele+ or ele-. People were saying this since the very first bwe and Anet did nothing about it.
No matter what weapon ele gets with its next elite I have zero faith in it. It’s either going to be utter trash that should never be used like the majority of ele options, or its going to be power creep insanity that invalidates everything else in the class.
I’m fine with elite specs being better than vanilla. They are elite specs, they should be objectively better than vanilla. I do, however, expect that future elite specs, which the systems treats as co-equal to the other elite specs, should be balanced against the other elite specs, they should not be an even higher tier. Of course certain elite specs will dominate others in certain scenarios, that’s inevitable, but they should be balanced overall.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Elite specs, as defined by Anet, are supposed to change the way the core class plays, not replace it. It is entirely expected that changing the way the class plays will make the elite spec better at some things than core, but tempest does not do this. Tempest is the same elementalist we’ve been playing since launch, but with a heaping serve of power creep.
Just because they failed to accomplish their stated goal for essentially every elite spec doesn’t mean I won’t hold them to it.
Elite specs, as defined by Anet, are supposed to change the way the core class plays, not replace it. It is entirely expected that changing the way the class plays will make the elite spec better at some things than core, but tempest does not do this. Tempest is the same elementalist we’ve been playing since launch, but with a heaping serve of power creep.
Just because they failed to accomplish their stated goal for essentially every elite spec doesn’t mean I won’t hold them to it.
Anet never said there would be 0 power creep either, but you’re the most on the money so far.
Elite Specs are the way to evolve the class in the future by providing new things. These new things will culminate into a new play style. Anytime you add new things you’re going to have an amount of power creep purely because its new. The important part is that the base profession is still there. Elite Specs are there to provide a branching path into something that couldn’t be done (or done well) before.
Elite specs, as defined by Anet, are supposed to change the way the core class plays, not replace it. It is entirely expected that changing the way the class plays will make the elite spec better at some things than core, but tempest does not do this. Tempest is the same elementalist we’ve been playing since launch, but with a heaping serve of power creep.
My tempest plays differently than my vanilla Ele. My Tempest does this thing where she charges at enemies while tirling or riding a rock or something, and then all the enemies nearby take damage and stuff, and then it leaves a sort of “tempest” at that location. My vanilla Ele never did that sort of thing. Feels different to me.
The important part is that the base profession is still there. Elite Specs are there to provide a branching path into something that couldn’t be done (or done well) before.
Right. Elite specs are a step forward from the base set. They allow you to do new things, without removing hardly anything from the vanilla (one trait line). It’s pretty much impossible to give players an entirely new mechanic layer, an entirely new weapon, and a new set of optional Utilities, and have it end up equal to the build that has none of those options, not unless it also cripples you as it does do.
However, you can’t be two elite specs at once, so the second elite spec will add new things, but will also be unable to use the HoT spec’s options. Whatever XPac 2 Ele can do, it won’t be Overloads, it won’t be Warhorn, it won’t be Shouts. It won’t be able to do any of that stuff. So they don’t need to try and balance XPac2 Ele against vanilla Ele, they just have to make sure that they are as good as the Tempest.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Elite specs, as defined by Anet, are supposed to change the way the core class plays, not replace it. It is entirely expected that changing the way the class plays will make the elite spec better at some things than core, but tempest does not do this. Tempest is the same elementalist we’ve been playing since launch, but with a heaping serve of power creep.
My tempest plays differently than my vanilla Ele. My Tempest does this thing where she charges at enemies while tirling or riding a rock or something, and then all the enemies nearby take damage and stuff, and then it leaves a sort of “tempest” at that location. My vanilla Ele never did that sort of thing. Feels different to me.
Yes, it does more and differently, these things don’t rule each other out.
I thoroughly enjoyed this multi-sided boxing match I’ve seen in this thread. I think there are valid points on both sides, even if some arguments are bull-headedly disqualified without giving proper explanations. Nobody’s assertion is an absolute law, even if the conclusion seems logical. Magic defies logic. Make of that what you will.
I’m with Ohoni on the fact that ESpecs should be level to each other but a slight improvement on the base class. Because that’s what is going to happen. Core classes will never reach the same potential ESpecs do.
I don’t care what ANet have stated in the past, they were idiots not to think ESpecs would bring powercreep, and I don’t hold them to that promise because they never should’ve said that in the first place, without seeing the outcome 1st. The very moment they announced ESpecs, I knew powercreep was going to happen. Regardless of what they said.
Yannir for males. (guard,thief,war,ele)
Sonya for females. (necro,rev,ranger,mes,engi)
All classes lvl 80.
For me a bit power creep from core to Espec is fine. I am more concerned about diversity within the ESpecs. You should be able do build multiple viable temepest and also upcoming class builds that are diffrent. This requires all these builds and thus Especs to be at a close power level.
Right. The idea is that progression was going to be mostly horizontal, but its inevitable that more options will create some vertical space. As long as everything fits will within the “accepted power range”, then Especs will fulfill their primary objective of granting new playstyles.
Agreed that Elite specs should straight-up be more powerful than core specs. They’re limited by the fact that you can only have one equipped, after all. They should also radically alter the way the core class plays.
I personally want the next Elite spec to be more selfish, seeing as how Tempest is about frontline support. Ideally, I’d prefer a condition damage-based Elite spec that uses a Sword or Greatsword and focuses on powerful and consistent burns and bleeds. Something that synergizes well with Fire and Earth, the current underdog core specs. Would also fit thematically with Primordus, and with the Crystal Desert too, if the leaks are to be believed.
That’s why tempest sucks. The way it was designed was simply wrong and now it can never be anything other than ele+ or ele-. People were saying this since the very first bwe and Anet did nothing about it.
No matter what weapon ele gets with its next elite I have zero faith in it. It’s either going to be utter trash that should never be used like the majority of ele options, or its going to be power creep insanity that invalidates everything else in the class.
I’m fine with elite specs being better than vanilla. They are elite specs, they should be objectively better than vanilla. I do, however, expect that future elite specs, which the systems treats as co-equal to the other elite specs, should be balanced against the other elite specs, they should not be an even higher tier. Of course certain elite specs will dominate others in certain scenarios, that’s inevitable, but they should be balanced overall.
Well they should be better at a very set thing such as tempest being a strong support def set up and it is. One could even say it was the first true healing class in gw2. Ele as a base class is a jack of all trades type but it dose lean more into dmg. So yes when your trying to do def / healing support tempest is a better class then ele. As for the next specialization we may see a high dps or a high spike dmg or just an all in tank. Sword mh can be high dps and tank set up (i do not see it being a high spike) GS could be all 3. There are other weapons made for dmg sword not realty an all in dmg type and as for GS its kind of all over the places.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Well they should be better at a very set thing such as tempest being a strong support def set up and it is. One could even say it was the first true healing class in gw2. Ele as a base class is a jack of all trades type but it dose lean more into dmg. So yes when your trying to do def / healing support tempest is a better class then ele. As for the next specialization we may see a high dps or a high spike dmg or just an all in tank. Sword mh can be high dps and tank set up (i do not see it being a high spike) GS could be all 3. There are other weapons made for dmg sword not realty an all in dmg type and as for GS its kind of all over the places.
Speaking of PVE here, but all dps builds are using Tempest because it’s more dps compared to the other specs.
That’s a valid thing to consider from a PvE perspective. Staff fire is already one of the best specs if all you want/need is DPS. Unless staff ele gets (further) nerfed in PvE, it’ll be hard to make an elite spec that outdamages tempest in PvE scenarios without making it the go-to in raids and other high-end PvE.
From a PvP perspective, though, there is room for a more selfish, damage-oriented elite specialisation.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
That’s a valid thing to consider from a PvE perspective. Staff fire is already one of the best specs if all you want/need is DPS. Unless staff ele gets (further) nerfed in PvE, it’ll be hard to make an elite spec that outdamages tempest in PvE scenarios without making it the go-to in raids and other high-end PvE.
From a PvP perspective, though, there is room for a more selfish, damage-oriented elite specialisation.
PvE does have room for an Ele DPS elite spec though. As new mobs tend to get more and more challenging, you would expect the slow nature of staff to greatly hinder it in a good portion of the newer content.
Also, skill can only get you so far in terms of survival when you have almost no active defenses with the lowest HP and armor in the game. Which means that if enemies get even harder, ele will need a DPS spec with damage that can land more easily and with improved active defences.
You know, while I still favor offhand pistol as my personal choice, I was thinking about the weapon combinations in the game, and realized that the only mainhand weapon that NO class dual wields is the Scepter!
There are sword/sword, dagger/dagger, pistol/pistol, mace/mace, and axe/axe, any other MH weapon can be dual wielded by at least one class, some multiple classes.
So maybe Scepter/Scepter 2017? I guess it could have the same skills people would want from a wand-sword, but it would open up a combo that no other class can have. Double Meteologicus?
PvE does have room for an Ele DPS elite spec though. As new mobs tend to get more and more challenging, you would expect the slow nature of staff to greatly hinder it in a good portion of the newer content.
Yeah, it’s ok for Eles to get a good DPS option for foes that stand very, very still for you, but also have an option that does less damage under ideal conditions, but is more flexible to use.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
PvE does have room for an Ele DPS elite spec though. As new mobs tend to get more and more challenging, you would expect the slow nature of staff to greatly hinder it in a good portion of the newer content.
Also, skill can only get you so far in terms of survival when you have almost no active defenses with the lowest HP and armor in the game. Which means that if enemies get even harder, ele will need a DPS spec with damage that can land more easily and with improved active defences.
In terms of future ele specs, that’s pretty much my thinking. No more damage than staff tempest now, but being able to land that damage more reliably on moving targets and having more active defences in exchange for needing to go into melee to get that damage could be a reasonable tradeoff.
That said, I haven’t noticed any tendency towards new mobs being less likely to stand in the fire. Some have a ‘move elsewhere’ skill that they use when attacked, but those have existed since release (harpy archers, for instance). I don’t think GW2 even has the ‘scatter’ behaviour that GW1 had.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
Well they should be better at a very set thing such as tempest being a strong support def set up and it is. One could even say it was the first true healing class in gw2. Ele as a base class is a jack of all trades type but it dose lean more into dmg. So yes when your trying to do def / healing support tempest is a better class then ele. As for the next specialization we may see a high dps or a high spike dmg or just an all in tank. Sword mh can be high dps and tank set up (i do not see it being a high spike) GS could be all 3. There are other weapons made for dmg sword not realty an all in dmg type and as for GS its kind of all over the places.
Speaking of PVE here, but all dps builds are using Tempest because it’s more dps compared to the other specs.
Ya it is silly that ppl cryed for more dps on a def/support aimed specialization.
I would still like to see a hammer ele that has all the atument fields ice water lighting fire (i would love to see them add in an earth too). Where its utility skills are mostly finished / passive and its line is more aimed for added effects for there fields and finishing though fields. No new F1-5 skill. Kind of a melee staff set up. Its def would be mostly “armors” so added hp crated from element skin (thinking earth skin etc..) that it gets from finishing a combo or even starting one.
Having the field finished fire would give you fire armor (added power burns ppl on hit and is low hp befor its broken) water would give you water armor (added healing power heals you on hit and avages hp before its broken) ice would give you ice armor (added condtion duration chills on hits and high hp before its broken) lighting (added crit dmg shot lasting super speed on hit “1 sec” low hp before its broken) earth if they add it (added dmg recution both types blinds on hit high hp before being broken).
If you finnish the fields you give out this armor type but weaker.
These armors only refresh they do not stack and ppl can only have one at a time with say a 5 sec cd (or how ever you need to balance it out).
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
I just hope no more off-hand and no main-hand only.
Well too bad, because you’re going to be seeing a lot of main-hand and offhand only, just because of the way Elementalists work. I can’t imagine them ever adding both a main and an offhand at the same time for Eles. They may introduce one with one spec, and the other with another spec, and then in the third expansion release a spec that can use both of them at once or something, but adding 20 new skills to a single class is hard enough to justify when they’re forced to by a 2H weapon, they certainly would never do it deliberately.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
I’d love to see a main-hand torch applying heat effects to all elements (air=plasma, earth=lava, water=steam). It could be a nice hybrid power/condi with 900 range focusing on splatter damage rather than aoe.
I’d love to see a main-hand torch applying heat effects to all elements (air=plasma, earth=lava, water=steam). It could be a nice hybrid power/condi with 900 range focusing on splatter damage rather than aoe.
I was considering something similar myself.
The alternative could be regarding a torch as a unification of the elements – say, earth, water, and air mixed in the growing of the wood and then fire. The skin for the ascended torch could be something that explicitly honours all four elements, and it just happens to be a torch because one of those elements is fire, after all.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
Given all the cookie cutting like a mad baker. The fact remains that the game has taken classes that we have come to use as caster classes and have now successfully changed everything into a front like tanky class. Whether or not the tanks survive is another thing. And while I will be the first to say that yes typically this in the norm. Many reasons exist but let me sum it up this way. The reason a caster casts is then need to move their arms, verbal words, etc. In heavy and Medium armor this is extremely hard to accomplish just due to the weight of having to do it repeatedly. Picturing spellcasters running around with arms like the Hulk here, not a pretty picture. Anyway even with the change to strict melee classes for every profession and trying to get every profession to use every weapon its still not going to change the fact regarding both armor type as well as spell caster or the rest. I mean at the rate we are going we are all going to be spellcasters, warriors and thiefs. If this is truly what the devs want to do fine but lets get it all out fast so we can at least attempt to adjust to it. In the meantime, don’t just support the Melee class not all of use are going to switch to that just because you put it in your game. You need to support the spellcasting, staff and scepter builds folks are using and many of the other equipment. You already dealing with the issue that the Berserker ARmor is the best in the game and the rest really have no purpose if they did they would be used and if you can’t see it then you are out of touch with your community.
It seems to me that the game is reverting back on some of the original decisions they made at the beginning of the guildwars 2 launch. For example the decision came down that their would be no healer class – this is why the monk class was lost to us. Other classes also fell to the wayside like Dervish (my favorite), the Ritualist and the Paragon (a class most people want to forget ever existed). Now we have a Druid which is quite frankly a healing class predominately. And even the devs themselves have stated that they have going back to the old system to take ideas for this new system. Why go through all the hassle just bring those classes back and give us 4 new classes. After all you created the Revenant for which reason again? And a lot of the skills that those old classes had are present within the game now Ex the swinging reaper looks awful like a Dervish to me and I’ve seen some skills called Arias (that what paragon skills were called) and I think the Mesmer looks a lot more like a Ritualist except their illusions can move (kind of a poor Minion Master if you ask me). In the old game the Memser was a force to be reckoned with. The chances to Dominate for the mesmer is a complete 180 from what it was.
I degress back to the subject. If you are going to make everyone everything get it over with already its already ticking people off you might as well complete the circle. Your still going to continue to loose gamers as long as you go down this road, I know I’m not going to forget what this game was meant to be in the beginning and what was promised to the community. Its a shame that your willing to cookie cut everything and call it new while in reality your simple repeating what was already done from designers that are no longer with the company. I challenge everyone go look at the original Guildwars and tell me if your not seeing this as well. You can also look at the GW wiki. We are copying and putting things back from the old way for one simple reason it worked. Your community is telling you it worked and you should have expanded the game from the old system and not hit the restart button. The gw2 storyline ws great for the Tyrian end but from Scarlet up its a waste. People logged into Guildwars daily like clockwork for that system now we are lucky guildies show up at all, gamers are disappearing and not one individual has come forward to simple say we need to rethink this and go back to what the gaming community have been screaming and warning about. Because so far we’ve been right. Or do you want me to mention that fact that we have propelled the storyline forward by saying two dragons are active. It says something with free accounts go inactive for a month or so. So I for one a going to pray during this hoiday season that someone reverts the GW2 system back to its original form and actually hear the community out.
LMAO, ive been running SW for 2 months so i can have the same on my ele. Well, I wouldn’t complain if we get GS either. I’m just saving up all i can so i can instabuy which ever gets announced.
